Thursday, January 04, 2007

Announcing My 'Coondidacy for President

Occasionally a Bob-intoxicated reader, overcome with enthusiasm over some nugget of common sense in one of Dear Leader's posts, will drunkenly shout something along the lines of "Gagdad Bob for President!"

While flattered by these overwrought displays of emotionality, I have always deflected such comments with a polite refusal accompanied by a swift back of the hand, occasionally directing Dupree to ban their IP.

But the more I considered it from various angles, the more I realized that the country really does need a third party candidate who can transcend the rancorous stalemate between right and left, Democrats and Republicans, "moonbats and wingnuts."

So today, I announce my candidacy for the Presidency of the United States of America, under the banner of the Raccoon Party.

The theme of my campaign will be "The Two Americas," for I believe this original slogan -- which was given to me in a dream by an androgynous looking angel with perfectly coiffed hair and a pleasant but vacuous courtroom smile -- to encapsulate all of our most vexing problems and issues. We must again aspire to be one America, the vertical America our founders intended us to be.

My fellow citizens, we can no longer afford to have two Americas, one so ignorant of rudimentary economics that they imagine poverty can be cured by raising the minimum wage or raising income taxes. We cannot tolerate half our citizenry frankly believing in monetary magic instead of the laws of supply and demand. For this reason, I propose a mandated class in basic economics, so that no longer will we have high school graduates who think you can make a man more valuable by paying him more than he is worth. My "No Left Child Behind" program will ensure that our children are not seduced by neo-Marxist ideas before they have the judgment to understand the implications of such a youthful dalliance, for research shows that these dangerous ideas can have a cult-like hold on the personality that persists well into tenurehood, arresting development at the age they first had intercourse with this ideology.

Today we have two Americas, one that can afford to send their children to be indoctrinated by agenda-driven radicals, aging hippies, and perpetual adolescents at our most prestigious and expensive universities. Therefore, with the exception of the hard sciences, we must withdraw all federal funding from these pernicious havens of PC voodoo, and subject them to a little market discipline, otherwise known as reality. Only then will their price come down in accordance with their value, which is approximately that of our great junior colleges. As you know, I myself am a product of our magnificent junior college system, which provides all the education and restrooms a motivated but mildly inebriated person requires, but without most of the hideous leftist brainwashing.

My friends, we cannot tolerate two Americas, one that participates in this grand experiment in spiritual evolution that our founders bequeathed to us, the other half lost and languishing in a meaningless wasteland of materialism, atheism, scientism, and the like. For this reason, I will be proposing a new Spirit Stamp program that will benefit our most spiritually disabled, soul-deprived, and vertically disadvantaged citizens. These spiritual food stamps will be "as good as money" in any house of worship, and can be used for collection plates, tithing, or other charitable forms of giving. We cannot have half the country failing to cultivate a charitable impulse because they have a political ideology that displaces it to the government. A country that consists of givers supporting takers will eventually become, like Western Europe, a debased culture of takers with a handful of gimme but not even so much as a mouthful of much obliged.

Today we have two Americas, one believing in the Constitution, the other in a "living Constitution." This latter misnomer is an oxymoron, for a living constitution is a dying constitution that leads straight down the path of judicial tyranny, as elitists in robes legislate their pet ideologies on the rest of us. My friends, the compromise position between what the constitution says and what judicial tyrants want it to say is a constitution that more or less says what the tyrants want it to say. Decent people can certainly argue over abortion without imagining that the constitution has anything to say about the matter. Likewise, we can all acknowledge America's past history of racism without imagining that the constitution sanctions it in the form of special rights for self-proclaimed victim groups.

In our two Americas, it seems that the benighted half wishes to have even more than two Americas -- a splintered America consisting of numberless groups categorized by race, class, gender, and sexual orientation. It is the opposite of the American creed -- instead of E Pluribus Unum, they offer us E Unum Pluribus, out of one, many (or to be perfectly pedantic, Ex Uno Plura, or something like that).

This is to misunderstand the very purpose of our freedom and the very mission of America. America is, in the words of John White, "a form of God-Realization." As he writes in his forthcoming book, The Pledge of Allegiance & The Star-Spangled Banner: A Patriot's Primer on the American Spirit, America was "predicated on a revolutionary political idea which had never before been tried: expanding the freedom of individual citizens while keeping governmental power to a necessary minimum and government employees as servants of we the people."

But we must lift up that "other America" which, in its spiritual darkness, believes liberty to be an end in itself. For ultimately, as my speech-writer, White, expresses it, "Enlightenment is the goal of human history, for the individual and for the race. The wonderful thing about enlightenment is that it is democratically available to everyone. We are evolving toward enlightenment, individually and collectively. God is drawing us all to His kingdom through a vast process involving all time and space."

Nope, we cannot have half of our citizens imbibing the toxic ideas of multiculturalism -- the notion that America is "just another country," no different -- or possibly worse -- than the others. Rather, being the first experiment in vertical government, America is the first truly universal nation embodying timeless truth. Our founders devised an evolutionarily advanced system, the purpose of which is to guide society "toward God-realization, the goal of life. That is the Spirit of Liberty in action -- not just political liberty but absolute truth and ultimate freedom itself.... Therefore, the essence of America is the future of the world, the goal of history" (and the goal of the cosmos, I might add).

It seems that half of America pledges its allegiance not to America but to that criminal syndicate known as the United Nations. This profoundly regressive and anti-evolutionary institution, which does not derive its powers from the consent of the governed, is literally a crime against humanity. As White writes, "The citizens of the world do not vote for their representatives to the UN in free elections, nor do the citizens of the world have the power to impeach unfit or undesirable representatives." Nevertheless, "membership in the UN obligates its members to abide by a set of international laws... which limit the rights of their citizens while pretending to grant them unlimited democracy.... The UN regards itself as the ultimate world authority and is answerable to no one! That is not 'the consent of the governed.' That is naked dictatorship and tyranny."

Furthermore, the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights is hopelessly flawed and completely at odds with American ideals. Specifically, "There is no transcendent basis recognized in it on which our liberty, our sovereignty, our rights, our justice and our human dignity are established. According to the Universal Declaration, human beings have rights because 'they are endowed with reason and conscience.' The source of humanity’s reason and conscience is not named.... Nowhere is there recognition of God as the source of our existence and the goodness toward which humanity strives to build a peaceful world." In the view of these spiritual primitives, "government, not God, is the source of all authority.... Article 29 states: 'These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.' Article 30 states: 'Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.'”

This is utterly contrary to the spiritually enlightened words of Declaration of Independence, for "when government bestows rights, government can abolish those rights because they are not inherent and inalienable.... Throughout history, government has been the principal enemy of freedom. A world government which bestows rights would therefore be the world’s principal enemy of freedom. The UN way is the way to global tyranny. That's the way freedom will perish from the earth."

In conclusion, my fellow raccoons, since I am running out of gas, and I am already sick of running for president anyway, I will leave you with a few more plagiarized words from Mr. White. Perhaps we can just nominate him and leave me out of it:

"The War for Independence which founded our nation is over, but the American Revolution goes on because it is a spiritual revolution of global dimensions. Our revolution is unique in history: the proclamation of liberty, individual sovereignty, self-determination, inalienable rights, equality of opportunity, justice under the rule of law and human dignity for all, derived from God and guaranteed through constitutional republican government of the people, by the people and for the people -- all for the purpose of enabling us to find individual and collective happiness. Implementing that revolution is called the American Spirit.

"The call of that revolution speaks powerfully and positively to the full range of our human nature. It draws from us that which is latent, waiting to be unfolded. It urges us to strive for something better for ourselves, our families, our communities, our nation, our world. It expresses itself physically, mentally, politically, socially and spiritually -- in all aspects of our lives. It taps our capacity for growth in a way which contributes to the good of everyone. It brings us to the realization of our own highest potential as individuals and as a society, and it urges us toward actualization of that potential. In short, it promises a better world of peace, prosperity and fulfillment for all."

And be sure and check out this CLASSIC video linked here.


NoMo said...

Bob – It may have just been a trick of Light, but I believe your recent “lost” post floated past me during a moment of contemplation. Although my attempt to fully grasp it came up short (as usual), I was able to make out one word as it accelerated upward out of sight –“rosebud”. I hope that helps.

Oh, and you have my vote.

Lisa said...

You have my vote as long as Will is your VP!!!

Can I be on the Presidential Fitness Thingymajingy?

Anonymous said...

Bob quotes White:

"Because the Founders believed that man was created in the image of God as a free, moral agent, it then follows as a political corollary that man must be given as much freedom as possible, so that he may make moral choices within the context of freedom and apart from pressure or coercion."

Bad news--your "other America" has used this freedom to embrace leftyism, apart from pressure and coercion. And now, you don't like it.

I'd have to say "tough titty" to you. The people were given a choice and half made a bad one.

So, being that they are Americans, they can stew in their leftness unmolested. Right?

robinstarfish said...

vote for gagdad bob
one or two americas
all raccoons rejoice

Anonymous said...

Okay, I'm convinced - I'll vote for you. Can I paint the presidential portrait?

Anonymous said...

Unholy Guacamole!

Of course leftists can stew in their bad choice. Do you have a point?

Anonymous said...

Huzzah, Huzzah, Bob for Pres!! With your fellow Raccoons as your erstwhile campaign staff and/or cabinet, how can you lose? At last, a ray of hope for our presently Vertically-Challenged government. But Beware, Ingegralist may be running against you on the Everybody's Beautiful ticket, with Cindy Sheehan as his running mate. They must be defeated!! Bobbleheads of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your mind parasites!

Anonymous said...

Well, at least this party already has an animal symbol useful for the political cartoonists.

Bob: Do you know when John's book will be published?

Anonymous said...

guaca mole:

As long as lefties support the constitution, no problem. The problem is that they don't because they hate the American ideal of the founders - so they try to change that and hence betray their country.

Nice try on though.

Anonymous said...

dude, yes the people who embrace leftism have made that choice of their own accord, thanks to the freedom given to them by this great nation, but it is those leftists that would use judicial fiat, media manipulation, academic stranglehold,"campaign finance reform", and plain out mob thugism to deprive the rest of us of our freedom. Look at the history of Communism to see how leftists value freedom. Bob is not suggesting some sinister reeducation campaign; that would seem to be the specialty of leftists (i.e., Cambodia). What is being suggested is a return to true liberty, the kind that comes from above, which the media and whackademia seem to resist tooth and nail, in the name of "freedom" (go figure).

Anonymous said...

we cannot tolerate two Americas, one that participates in this grand experiment in spiritual evolution that our founders bequeathed to us, the other half lost and languishing in a meaningless wasteland of materialism, atheism, scientism, and the like.

R U Sirius? If you are using the "two Americas" as roughly synonymous with the red and blue states, Republican and Democrat (correct me if I'm wrong), you are basically saying that the Republican/Red America "participates in this grand experiment in spiritual evolution that our founders bequeathed to us," which may be the most ridiculous thing I've read on this blog.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm almost as into the ideals of the founding fathers as you are, and can basically buy that:

"America in its ideal form is superior to all other nations and societies in terms of liberty, justice and prosperity for all, equality of opportunity for all to pursue happiness, inalienable rights and other important indicators of political and social well-being..." (John White)

But the key word is IDEAL. Is America in its ideal form? Only the most blindly nationalistic would say yes. America is, like perhaps every other nation in the world, deeply corrupt, riddled by human weakness and limitation--and largely dictated by multi-national corporate greed.

This is where the importance of an integral framework comes in. The founding fathers--and classical liberals--are indeed basically right; the yoffer an elegant, beautiful, and sophisticated ideology. However, and this is the key point, it only works if everyone participating in such a society is on the same level/stage of evolutionary consciousness. Are they? No. Why aren't they? Many reasons, but partially because of mis-use of the free market economy which polarizes rich and poor, educated and not, intelligentsia and hick (it is also partially just the natural pyramid-structure of consciousness: there will always be less folks at the higher "vertical" stages).

I have to run out but never fear, I'll be back...

Anonymous said...

Bob, it seems your opponent has already declared as well. Let the feathers fly!!

Anonymous said...

>>I announce my candidacy for the Presidency of the United States of America, under the banner of the Raccoon Party<<

First, let's kill all the lawyers.

But you know . . . I can't help but think that while we do indeed have "two Americas", the regressive America threatening to consume the spiritually progressive America, I believe it was a point of the Constitution to eventually bring the progressive/regressive polarity to a head, that is, make the choice between progress/regress, evolution/devolution, good/evil as clear to us as possible.

When I say "a point of the Constitution", I mean of course that whether or not that was the Founders conscious intent, the "polarizing effect" was ultimately a divine purpose re: the Constitution's role in spiritual/historical affairs.

So, in a sense, I can't really bemoan the current bifurcation of America. it serves to stir us, awaken us, calls on us to sacrifice in the real sense of the word, ie., give up something to get something better. For all the unsettling turmoil it may cause, I think this is a great and probably necessary spiritual blessing at this time.

Well, thanks, Lisa - hmm, this is awkward, considering that you are one of my many identities . . .

Anonymous said...

" it only works if everyone participating in such a society is on the same level/stage of evolutionary consciousness. Are they? No."

Integralist, so where does the materialist, Marxist thinking 101 level of consciousness you portray sit. Of course you are at the pinnacle of our civilization and therefore are the one to be trusted with leading us.

Anonymous said...

I nominate Hoarhey for the Defense Secretary, Van and Smoov can be the CIA and NSA directors. I can be with the protection detail.

The split over materialism, etc. reminds me of Trevor Ravenscroft's "The Spear of Destiny" -near the conclusion of the book.

The evil powers that be say they are going to promote materialism in the west.

I think POTUS Bob is right about the two Americas. But I find it intersting the tacit acceptance of the differences by Integralist are seen as vertical differences, when more to the point -they were engineered differences.

There was a deliberate attempt by the CPUSA to make the discussion of religion and politics in public a social faux pas.

Further inroads into the educational system have absolutely destroyed the minds of several generations, giving what we have now.

To say this is somehow just a natural state of disagreement is to not do one's homework.

In other words, its not a given level playing field, it is one that has been seriously manipulated.

Then the left stands back and pretends there was no manipulation, and discusses their usual talking points on fairness, diversity, egalitarianism, global warming, etc.

All these are but symptoms of the deeper evil, as they continue to manipulate the minds and hearts of men (generic) in order to corrupt and keep in control, and maintain the darkness.


"I have to run out but never fear, I'll be back... "

Why did this remind me of Lost In Space's "Never fear, Smith is here" ? ;)

BTW -Angela Cartwright (Penny Robinson -etc.) has a blog, and her artwork and photography is pretty cool.


PS -correction -it was pointed out to me I said, "Joan's Haiku" and meant "Robin's Haiku"

Anonymous said...

President? That's a grave task, Bob. It'll really cut in on your cosmic slackitude time.

I'd vote for you on every sort of principle, but I see you more as a Chancellor, or if you will, a Cabinet adviser to the President. We need you to be thinking about cosmic consequences to horizontal decisions, and advise the Pres accordingly.

Reconsider, Bob. We'll always have a president, but we won't always have a Raccoon of the Year.

However, if you must, then Hoarhey and Ben should be your military advisers. I'll second Will as your veep. Van should be your Chief of Staff.

I want Condi's job.

Anonymous said...

Oh sorry,

I was supposed to sign that as..

"The Evil, Dark, Psychotic, Fundamantalist Wack-Job"

ximeze said...


Where you been bubba?
Missed ya & hoped ya was OK.
Glad ya'lls back.

Anonymous said...

..and the Integralist party is born...

-Evil, Darkman, Psychotic, Fundamentalist Wack Job


Anonymous said...

"The Anti-Capitalist Mentality" by Ludwig Von Mises is a short, must-read, regarding the jab just taken at Integralist regarding social Utopianism / Marxism.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps RobinStarfish can be the Press Secretary?



River Cocytus said...

Ah, Bob. You don't want to be president. Well, I can't tell you what you want, but I can say that I wouldn't want to be Prez.

Regardless, it will take much more than declaring it on here to make it so.

But, I would vote for you, you crazy, crazy Diamond.

By the way, have you discussed this with your Earth Woman?

Anonymous said...

Ambassador to the UN, Cousin Dupree?

Van Harvey said...

WO!!!(pant, pant, pant)...

... phew, I made it to (almost) the end of paragraph #6 before being flooded with endorphins, adrenalin and an overwhelming urge to comment;

"OoohhHHH YEAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!"

(pant, pant, pant) phew, gasp...

ok, glandular reactions back in check, (pant, pant, pant)

endorphins fading...

woo-boy, that much common sense in relation to political viewpoints, especially in election season can be way hard for someone in my weakened state to handle.

(takes deep breath)

ok then. Back to paragraph #6 and beyond.

ximeze said...

J of A said: "I want Condi's job"

There you go again.
It's gotta be that rathogger thing: knewitknewitknewit!

You just can't help youself, cannot be SATISFIED with your current EXALTED position, gotta run in & try to get MORE MORE MORE.

You think you can just lateral your way into this one, but be warned: You Have A Fight On Your Hands Here!

Does your piece-of-paper say "International Studies" on it?
How many Languages do you speak?
Was your father a Career Diplomat?
How many different countries have you lived in?
How closely have you worked & lived with Foreign Nationals?

Huh? Huh? Huh?

Clearly IIIIIII am MORE qualified!

Know you'll get your Racgoons to do your dirty work. They're a bunch of kiss-up locksteppers anyway.

Told ya ta watch your back!

Now! My Moment Has Arrived!

Anonymous said...

In addition to the Racoon hats, we must have something to wear around the office..

heh heh


NoMo said...

I don't know, ximz, its a gubmnt job -- not even who vs what you know, but quotas to fill. What are your "real" qualifications?

Anonymous said...

Be sure and check out the CLASSIC video linked here. Pretty much sums up Bob's platform.

Anonymous said...

Of course Bob is not serious; he is a career satirist for God's sake. (Not just a figure of speech--I mean literally for God's sake).

His appointed place in the Cosmos is to punch holes in he bloated leftist cause and let some of the air out.

And, to work with clients as a therapist (although I hope for God's sake he keeps his personal views out of his relationships with clients).

These two causes are enough.

Anonymous said...

If a system of government grants unprecedented freedom to the governed who, in turn, embrace poisonous materialist PC concepts that destroy said sytem of government, what does that say about giving people freedom?

Maybe its a bad idea. Maybe people can't handle freedom. Maybe, deep down, they don't even want it? Ever think of that?

Anonymous said...

Inty, of course I'm glad to see you back. My heart soars like a hawk.

Yes, of course there are those, probably even the majority of so-called "red staters", who aren't up to the evolutionary state of consciousness as implied by the American Ideal. And certainly there are misuses of free-market economics. I'll give you one myself - the auto industry's willful failure to come up with an affordable electric/hybrid car. Long ago, they had the know-how, the blueprints, etc., but chose not to do so for economic reasons, ie., would have cost them moolah short-term.

My point here is that Detroit's failure has come to light. Took some time, but now people are more vigilant, more *conscious* of their own responsibilities in holding those in power to account. That kind of misuse of power is much less likely to occur again. And this slow revolution in consciousness occurred because of the American Ideal. You suggest that America is as corrupt as other nations - a real stretch there, but let's say you're right. Thanks to the American Ideal, the correctives to corruption actually work. Yes, they work slowly, but that's the nature of real spiritual progress. There are no shortcuts in spiritual progress, and the left, in its ignorance, generally looks for the shortcut, the quick fix.

You say the misuse of free-market economics is one of the reasons there are those mired in a low state of consciousness. Again, that's a real stretch. If we had the kind of blanket, grinding, Medieval subsistence level of poverty that characterizes so many regions of the world, I would agree with you, but obviously we don't - thanks to our free-market system and the American Ideal.
Afro-Ams, who as a group constitute the poorest of Americans have a standard of living some 80 times, I believe the figure is, greater than blacks any other place in the world.

And speaking of racial issues, if there's a country in the history of the world that has done more to correct its racial problems than the USA, I'd definitely like to see it. American Ideal, again. It took and is taking time, but time is what spiritual progress takes.

You speak as though this were the 1930's when there were questions in the minds of many as to whether the American ideal would actually work in correcting corruption, social imbalances, etc. Time (again) has proven that it works and continues to work. Yes, we must remain vigilant re abuse of power, but thanks to the ideal, we are more conscious, more responsible as individuals, thus more capable of doing so.

Yes, not everybody is up to the Ideal - but the Ideal exists as a Divine Archetype that, if kept as an ideal in the mind and heart, albeit not fully comprehended, gradually draws us up in Spirit. The Catholic Church, too, has its own Divine Archetype that hovers over its material organization, and few would argue that that organization hasn't been rife with corruption for the past several millennia. Yet the Church Ideal has brought countless souls closer to the Spirit, many more, I would suspect, than were stymied in spiritual consciousness by the Church's corruptions. Does it matter a great deal that, historically, very few have been able to grasp the full significance of that Ideal? I don't think so. Nor do I think so with respect to the American Ideal.

River Cocytus said...

Deep down, people require freedom, Mole.

Or, we can go back to the 4th century B.C. or whatever.

Machiavelli once said that people who are evil will destroy their own freedom.

It is their just desserts; but it is not right that those who desire to use their freedom well should be destroyed by those who will not.

This is why liberty is not an end unto itself, like Bob said. Were you listening?

River Cocytus said...

Oh, Not to pimp my new site too badly, but it has working comments now! Hurrah!

As for voting for Bob, I would think all of his friends would likely do so, as may his acquaintances. This is why the Athenians looked down on voting; they used a lottery system.

Now -that's- liberty.

Anonymous said...

Love the video - I know so many people who approach life that way...

Nova said...

Integralist wrote:

"multi-national corporate greed"

That phrase is all I need to hear from Integralist. I was prepared to cut him some slack earlier, but now he has revealed himself fully.

Integralist is completely unsalvagable unless he/she is under age 25 (and thus still has a chance to outgrow this infantile Marxist outlook).

Throw this one back and move on. We've got to concentrate on the ones who have potential to become fully human.

Nova said...


Just got my copy of "A Different Christianity", used paperback, for $90. Do I recall correctly that you recommended this book? I think that is why I ordered it, but I order so much from Amazon I've kind of lost track.

Anonymous said...

Luke: You're obviously "The New VADER" ("Darkman, angry, psychofundy, mysterious, paranoid man in black... See? I really can truncate descriptors down successfully.

Christening people is what we do here. You're now the Black King. I'm the White Queen. Inty is the Joker Willstah Vanillah is the White Bishop. CosaNostradamus is both the Black Bishop & Black Knight. River-C is the White Knight. Cousin Dupree is the Rook. Smoov is busy running his "flying fiefdoms" so he plays AeroChess daily. CyberChess anyone? Alot like Polytix.

Sorry Luke, can't vote for Van for CIA as he'd likely jump to erroneous conclusions faster than a jackrabbit; if he gets new lasik-surgery sights to see facts vs suspicions better, ok. Then he'd have my vote to run the State Dept & Prezidential Historical Library. I nominate Smoov to be Head of Security of AirForceOne for Gagdad.

Hoarhey & Smoov & Cosanostradamus as the classic "Men in Black" are best choices for FBI, NSA & CIA headships in that order. Cousin Dupree for Secretary of Defense. USSBen as Special Military Advisor.

Will already declared Presidential candidacy under Raccoon Ticket so he's up against Gagdad. Rather see him run as VP candidate with Gagdad.

Lisa for the Cheerleader/Prez Fitness thingymajiggy job.

River-C as Secretary of State as he's good at communications & explanations w/classic patience to deal w/pinheads.

Tsebring great call on an Inty/Sheehan Donkey-Party ticket. That's about as "scary" & ridiculous as Kerry (Lurch) & Mrs. Kerry running for
office was.

That leaves you, Luke. Guess you'll be the Invisible Man working for ATF, CIA, FBI as "Special Ops." In your Darkman persona you're the next World Dictator on tap after you gather all the Intelligence you need to control the peons. Then you'll move onto Star Wars to do thy Emperors bidding. Inty is obviously Chancellor Palpatine.

The rest of you fight it out amongst yourselves. Obviously, I have my own Kingdom to run in Middle Earth, drawing up plans in my continued Quest for One World Domination. Stepped up from Amerika to Rule-Ze-World-Enchilada status, might as well go for it all. Cast my Vote for "G-BOB as Prezident" many posts ago as I dont want the bleeping job. Nuking the UN off the map is the very least I can do for Amerika in Light of G-BOBs generousity of Spiritual Giftings here.

- PrincessSpirit -

Nova said...


I haven't forgotten about our exchange the other day. I'm travelling to San Diego today, but if we could straighten out the email exchange thing it would be great. I wasn't quite sure what to do re Ben...

Gagdad Bob said...


That book is in my sidebar, and although I would recommend it, I would probably more highly recommend the $90.

Anonymous said...

GuacaMole said: "...Maybe people can't handle freedom. Maybe, deep down, they don't even want it?"

Yeah. Right. "Slavery - Good, Freedom+Liberty - Bad." Said like a True Dictator. Luke you just been bumped back to #2 Dictator position.

Horrors!! What planet is Guaca from? You automatically earned the Autocrat Imperialist nick: "Caesar Augustus Maximus Stupidius."

- PrincessSpirit -

Anonymous said...

Uh, no, PP, correction, I did not declare my candidacy. And if nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve. If served, I will not eat, unless served chile. If not chile, moo-shu pork.

Anonymous said...

Imperious Leader:

The Cylon nation is behind You.
What is Thy bidding, Imperious Leader?

-Gaius Baltar

Anonymous said...

Forgive me, Will. I see it was in quotes. Okay, I nominate you for Chile & MooShu Pork Eating Contest Champion then.

But a "mouth full of mooshu" is just so not the best use of your stellar wordsmithying talents, IMHO.

- Princess -

robinstarfish said...

press secretary?
i could accept such a post
if press is a verb

Anonymous said...

Gaius -

I know you fear you're a Cylon, but there is hope for you yet. In fact I believe you will be instrumental in saving the homeless humans. Perhaps not of your own accord, but the gods will use you anyway when you least expect it.

You do have a hot imaginary friend though. It's hard to blame you for being so easily lured into darkness.

Watch your back for D'Anna - she's bad news.

Meanwhile, keep an eye out for unexpected and unearned grace.

Jamie Irons said...


Forgive the Latin pedantry, but when you write

"E unum pluribus"

you are really not changing the meaning of the Latin. Because of the inflected nature of Latin, moving the word order around changes only emphasis, not meaning. (A further quibble is that one really should change the "e" to "ex" as a vowel follows in "unum.")

I believe what you're trying to get at is

Ex uno plura

which, if I am not mistaken, and I may well be, would signify "Out of one, many."

/tiresome pedant ;-)

Jamie Irons

Jamie Irons said...

More seriously, I think you really are on to something with the idea of a "vertical" candidacy.

I am just now reading "Six Frigates" by Ian W. Toll, a riveting and inspiring history of the US Navy. In the early part of the book, there is a wonderful account of the truly amazing Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and other founding fathers. They were obviously giants, and I fear we have become pygmies. And they certainly had some sense, to a man, of the "vertical."

Jamie Irons

Anonymous said...

Imposter Gaius:

You should know I AM the real Dr. Gaius Baltar! You can't copy MEEEE! Caprica Six, do you, do you See what They're doing? No one else can be the pathetic spineless crazy genius I Am! You Skin Covered Mechanized Bucket of Bolts! You're a COPY! I AM Imperious Leader! Who betrayed Caprica? Who spies and gives the Cylons whatever they want? Who created the Cylons? Who Rules!?

Yes. You're right. I didn't make the best President of New Caprica. It's true. I was only enjoying the various fruits of my suffering and labors. But I AM Imperious Leader. GAIUS, not Gagdad! Oh, Guacamole is hereby promoted to being my Second.

I'm leaving now. Down to the planet to visit the Temple of Five. I'd better not hear of you impersonating me again. There Can Be Only One Megalomaniac in Cylon Society! No Copies! If you are still around when I get back I will see you end up on the recycled Cylon parts scrap heap!

The Real Gaius Baltar
aka Imperious Leader

Van Harvey said...

Guano mole,

... oh heck, DuPree & Alan already beat me to it... guess I'll just have to rise to a higher plateau of political discourse.



Gagdad Bob said...

Centurion: What's this, then? "Romanes eunt domus?" People called Romanes, they go, the house?

Brian: It says, "Romans go home."

Centurion: No it doesn't! What's the latin for "Roman?" Come on, come on!

Brian: Er, "Romanus!"

Centurion: Vocative plural of "Romanus" is?

Brian: Er, er, "Romani!"

Centurion: [Writes "Romani" over Brian's graffiti] "Eunt?" What is "eunt?" Conjugate the verb, "to go!"

Brian: Er, "Ire." Er, "eo," "is," "it," "imus," "itis," "eunt."

Centurion: So, "eunt" is...?

Brian: Third person plural present indicative, "they go."

Centurion: But, "Romans, go home" is an order. So you must use...? [He twists Brian's ear]

Brian: Aaagh! The imperative!

Centurion: Which is...?

Brian: Aaaagh ! Er, er, "i" !

Centurion: How many Romans?

Brian: Aaaaagh ! Plural, plural, er, "ite!"

Centurion: [Writes "ite"] "Domus?" Nominative? "Go home" is motion towards, isn't it?

Brian: Dative! [the Centurion holds a sword to his throat]

Brian: Aaagh! Not the dative, not the dative! Er, er, accusative, "Domum!"

Centurion: But "Domus" takes the locative, which is...?

Brian: Er, "Domum!"

Centurion: [Writes "Domum"] Understand? Now, write it out a hundred times.

Brian: Yes sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar, sir.

Centurion: Hail Caesar ! And if it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.

Anonymous said...


Thank you for the warnings, friend. Grace? I'm not familiar with the term. I believe in Science. But Six, well, she got me to believe in God finally. I must say I'm happy in my little heavenly Basestar bedroom with D'Anna and Six by my side!

D'Anna. Yes. A crafty one. (Did you see how the minx tortured me? Remind me I must return the favor to her.)

AH - Caprica Six! Now you see why I've quite lost my mind and all of my marbles?! Those barely there Red dresses she wears...ah, how can any man say "no" to that?

It's not MY fault I'm so wretched!

Save the human race you say? Perhaps so. Promoted to God! Yes, Gaius the God. Nice ring to it. Unfortunately, the humans, namely Colonel Tye, would love to tear me a new one right now. I'd best steer clear as I descend to the planet.

I Thank You for your kind thoughts. Hardly anyone remembers I am human these days. Even me. I will try to be less paranoid about your Gagdad. But the Clone gets it when I get back!

The Real Gaius Baltar
aka Imperious Leader

Lisa said...

Hey Robin,

Just ask Bill Clinton.
But of course press is a verb.
Proof is on the dress.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the nice compliment, PP.

Hmm, are you one of my numerous aliases too?

Jamie Irons said...


Yes, whenever I think of anything in Latin, (happens all too often; I am an obsessive Horace maven!) my mind drifts sooner or later to that hilarious scene in "Life of Brian"!

Wherever did you find the exact dialog?


Jamie Irons

Gagdad Bob said...


I just googled "Jamie latin pedant" and it was the first thing that came up.

NoMo said...

OK fellow raccoons, which crick are you drinkin' from today?

Cause I gots to get me some!

Anonymous said...

Smoovish one,

I suggested Ben as a relay as his email is on his blog site.


I was just informed my brother in law has a golf ball sized tumor in his pancreas. The status -that is, if it is malginant or benign is not yet known. A PET scan is scheduled for next week.

Real prayers from real hearts would be appreciated. Neither he, nor my sister are believers.

-Luke Vader (Chad's cousin)

Anonymous said...

..or as Homer Simpson said,

"Cogit ergo Doh!"


NoMo said...

Today's helpful gardening tip for those whose corn crops are plagued by raccoons: talk radio. Raccoons apparently are confused and put off by the cacophany of human voices, and if you place in your garden two portable radios, set on different talk-radio shows and encased in plastic bags, the critters will stay away from your corn and other delectibles. Music is not a deterrent; this technique is only effective with talk radio. (from "365 Days of Gardening" by Christine Allison)

Sounds like a good idea for humans too -- if you want to give up "corn."


Anonymous said...

First off, I won't bother to respond to any accusations of Marxism as anyone who accuses me thusly obviously either hasn't read what I've said, or hasn't understood it. Not to mention this portrays an extreme simplicity of perspective, an either/or, black-and-white mentality ("If you aren't one of us, you're a Commie Bastard!").

[b]Will[/b], as I said I am not saying that the "American Ideal" is wrong or is not noble. Far from it. I just don't think it totally, 100% works. The percentage that it works may even increase over time, but for the percentage that it doesn't--that's where a lot of the Leftist stuff comes in as necessary.

I am reminded of when a friend once asked me:

1) "Is it more important to you that an individual is allowed to go as far as they possibly can in life,


2) Every individual has equal opportunity to do so?"

Or something like that. I was stumped, with a slight nod towards the latter choice. Now I'm even more stumped, or feel that those two options--which are basically synonymous with Right and Left--are two equally important sides of the same coin.

Now my point is that classical liberalism--by advocating the first option at the expense of, or at least before, the second--is not recognizing the reality of things: that not all people are not equal in terms of their capacity, that some need more help than others--and moreso, that some will take advantage of the system in any way that they can, no matter who it hurts.

Anonymous said...

Not to kick a dead horse, but frankly Integralist, the ideas do come from Marxist / Lenninst rehash. I personally could care less what cologne gets put on it to make it smell better.

I think you've not read enough of other's ideas on the whole big picture. This is why I continue to mention Ludwig Von Mises, and Hayek.

Is it only for us to integrate your philosophy? Is integration only a one way street where the Evil, Fundy Wacko Luke must integrate?

I also am again somewhat disturbed by the penchant to place things into a binary system. The either / or logic of your statements, reveals you've been mind-trapped by college professors (who are notorious for this kind of fun with young minds).

This creates a conditioning to see the world in such forms of oppositional construction.

This reminds me of the rather narrow viewpoint that if someone makes money, they have taken it out of the hands of someone else. This is patently absurd, but is still being tossed about as if it were true.

I mention this due to your remarks which have to do with "hurting someone else" -which again is based in the binary model. Either you "have" or I "have" but if one of us does, then the other suffers.

This Cosmos (pardon me Bob, different context) is not a zero sum game.

Perhaps a wider view of things would enhance your abilities at integration of the useful, and disintegration of that which has already proven itself to be quite wanting.

Whence cometh the understanding young Integralist?


Anonymous said...


To the extent that you politicize problems that are existential, psychological, or spiritual, you are a member of "the left."

How is your own life going in these here United States? Are things okay for you? If not, whose fault is it? What do you need to do to turn things around?

MikeZ said...

I've been away far too long to contribute anything of substance, but I do want to say that the "Government Employee" video is quite brilliant and to the point.

My own definition of "escalator" is: a device which, while transporting you from floor to floor, emits paralyzing rays that inhibit movement of the legs.

robinstarfish said...

dear lisa:

close but no cigar
proof is found in good moonshine
90 or above

MikeZ said...


"... is allowed to go as far ..." or ".. has an equal opportunity to do so..."

I don't really see the difference between the two. To be allowed is to have the opportunity. Wherever the allowance stops, there stops the opportunity.

It seems to me that the "equalizing" stance of the Left (for which, see Kurt Vonnegut's short story, "Harrison Bergeron" (the whole thing is on the Web)) is not equality of opportunity, but equality of outcome. This can only be achieved by "quotas" - where we let in to universities people of lesser ability and lesser achievement - unfortunately, largely based on race - which has the side effect of displacing people of greater ability and achievement.

".. the reality of things: that not all people are not equal in terms of their capacity, that some need more help than others -- and moreso, that some will take advantage of the system in any way that they can, no matter who it hurts."

Can anyone find fault with that stance? I can't. My only quibble is assigning that belief to classical liberalism (that of the Founding Fathers). I think rather that they believed that everyone should be allowed - and have an equal opportunity - to go as far as they can in life. When they wrote "... all men are created equal ..." some folks think they really meant "... before the Law". The first is utter nonsense - Jefferson was smarter than anyone, the other Founders were smarter than almost anyone. Jefferson was taller than most, Adams shorter. Some men are stronger than others, some faster, some play the tuba better. None are equal in ability or characteristics (except perhaps for identical twins).

But all are equal under the Law. In other systems, some are more equal than others, and even our system breaks down from time to time, but that's not the fault of the system, that's the fault of those who would "take advantage of the system". And it may well be true that a system that doesn't let some take advantage of it, is far too restrictive. Mechanisms are in place to let those taken advantge of, call to task those who take.

Van Harvey said...

(psst! Gagdad, my last two post's, link went astray, could you delete them for me? I'm so embarrased - Smoov won't be hiring me)

I’ll bet I’m way late to the party on this one (slaving away for those “less folks at the higher "vertical" stages” rich dudes), but here it goes anyway.

"Is America in its ideal form?"
Less close today than at it's founding, why is that? Give me a moment, I'm sure you'll provide an example.

"largely dictated by multi-national corporate greed" getting there, I knew you wouldn't disappoint.

"it only works if everyone participating in such a society is on the same level"
Bing-Bing-Bing! Wrong! Thank you for playing! A suggested consolation prize would be "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell, and/or Economic Liberties and the Constitution by Bernard H. Siegan. Quick summary: It only works if everyone in the gov't keeps their damn hands out of the mix and stops trying to equalize everything.

If someone tries to commit a real crime (Not an FDR "xFreedoms" stand ins, but real fraud, endangerment, etc) then book 'em Danno, but with the Progressives tinkering from 1900's on, it's been mucked up bigtime.

Another suggestion would be "Death of Common Sense: How Law is Suffocating America" by Phillip K Howard. Also, an excellent examination of the Constitution, with each clause related to founding documents, Federalist Papers, Supreme court decisions, as well as references back to John Locke, etc, The Founders Constitution free available online by the University of Chicago.

"This is where the importance of an integral framework comes in"
No, that is where your inner-leftist comes out of 'hiding'. Integralist, look in the mirror, you be a leftie!

NoMo said...

van - some things just bear repeating...over and over and...

Van Harvey said...

Joan of Argghh! said..."However, if you must, then Hoarhey and Ben should be your military advisers. I'll second Will as your veep. Van should be your Chief of Staff."

That sounds more to my liking.

"I want Condi's job."

You got it. No, we don't need to consult with Bob on this, everyone knows it's the Chief of Staff that's really in charge.

[insert James Earl Jones voice here] "You don't know the Power!"

Lisa said...

Hey Robin,

Hundred is better.
It is ten more than 90.
Less is more filling.

Van Harvey said...

Ximeze said "...You just can't help youself, cannot be SATISFIED with your current EXALTED position, gotta run in & try to get MORE MORE MORE..."

er... power ain't all it's cracked up to be. Bob! You wanna handle these two?!

Anonymous said...


Was that you or Beaky squawking on about me? I think you're spending too much time with that bird and are starting to sound just like it.

But, it does qualify you to be Bob's Ambassador to the U.N.

My creds, by the way, include 3 languages, 5 years of foreign service and one non-tourist clandestine operation of mercy within a communist-controlled regime in the Western Hemisphere. (From which I smuggled back two cases of cigars.)

Oh, and talk about integrated ideologies, enlightened world view, and first-class health care! Said communist country had it all. No matter what color, what education, or physical condition, everyone was equally miserable and hungry.

(I did, however, learn several ways that a bicycle frame can be used to smuggle rum from the local factory there. And how long it takes a father of two to dig out an extra room for his family from the side of the one-room apartment that abutted a cliff. It was illegal for him to do so, so they had to smuggle the scree and rubble out from their little room and onto different streets every night. This was during the 1990s, folks.)

Not sure if that exactly qualifies me any more than any other Bobblehead, but I've got reasons for wanting the position that go far beyond personal ambition. My reasons include the beautiful people I had to leave behind, who made me weep with their good humor and show of bravery and determination in the face of Leftism in its ultimate form; who made me cry for their desperation and hopelessness. Who plied me with homemade agua ardiente and fed me with their finest morsels, and could care less what Harry Belafonte and Danny Glover think.

Anonymous said...

Solid, very solid plarform. Is this the Devolution so eagerly awaited? The lines at the poles will be long!

Anonymous said...


I was not aware that Harry and Danny *could* think!

Viva Los Numeros!

Cuba Si! Castro No!


Anonymous said...

As Randy Stonehill used to sing, to the tune of, Desperado:

"Avacado, why must you be so holy?
You're only guacamole to me."

Anonymous said...

you said;

"I am reminded of when a friend once asked me:

1) "Is it more important to you that an individual is allowed to go as far as they possibly can in life,


2) Every individual has equal opportunity to do so?"

Why in your world are these mutually exclusive?
Honestly, do you ever step back and read what you write?
You deny being a neo Marxist and then in the next breath proceed to espouse a theory which would entail continued and ever increasing government meddling in peoples lives, making Uncle Karl extremely proud.
And you call most here blind?

Liberty works because it ultimately produces a self correcting system where people, not the government have the power to choose. It may not be as quickly self correcting as you'd like, but over time, the invisible hand of freedom does correct its mistakes.
It creates a continuously uplifting system where informed consumers make decisions as to where they will spend their money, and the government is charged with prosecuting criminal behavior of those who step beyond the rules. Leave the egalitarian emotionalism out of it and look around, in the U.S. the "poor" of today live as well as the middle class of the 1960s. And 40 years from now the "poor" will be sitting at your computer table staring at your computer screen, eating in your kitchen and watching their big screen in your living room.
That scenario is of course contingent upon the hope that Nancy and the suicidal progressivists don't gut the intelligence and defense budget to the point where it allows several dirty bombs to spontaneously combust in select cities. But, of course, that would entail making a decision to take a stand.
It's all good, if you can drop the envy and the impulses that it produces to get in there and screw everything up.

Anonymous said...

It's not so much that Harry and Danny can or can't think, it's that the MSM can't think clearly and just loves those celebs who parrot (apologies to Beaky) everything they read in the NYT.

Van Harvey said...

PsychooP2 said..."Sorry Luke, can't vote for Van for CIA as he'd likely jump to erroneous conclusions faster than a jackrabbit; if he gets new lasik-surgery sights to see facts vs suspicions better, ok."

(when you see the swarms of red dots centering on your forehead, you'll you didn't say jackrabbit fast enough)


Anonymous said...

you said;

"I am reminded of when a friend once asked me:

1) "Is it more important to you that an individual is allowed to go as far as they possibly can in life,


2) Every individual has equal opportunity to do so?"

The Founding Fathers would have recognized a Protestant Christian concept known as "The Calling", where we each have our place in life according to what God has called us to do. Your calling is determined by being something you're good at, something you like to do, and something other people agree you are good at.

The calling is the underpinning of our Freedom where we are able follow the call from God to be the best we can be. Using the example of a human body, St Paul writes that we need eyes and hands, and "And the eye cannot say to the hand "I have no need of you"". So we have diverse callings that are not equal, either of inputs or outcomes. Ivan Illich calls this "Asymmetrical Complementarity".

It's a vertical view of our earthly estate. The rich man is equally valued by God as the Janitor in his factory, and they are also each valued by each other, as well, because they each are performing the work they have been called to do.

One of the reasons why America has been so wildly successful is that each of us is able to contribute to the fullest extent of his abilities, unconstrained by "low" birth, or being a younger son, being female, or any of the limitations of Old Europe, through the cultural acceptance that we each have a calling and must be performing it...

Susan Lee

Van Harvey said...

Integralist said "...Now my point is that classical liberalism--by advocating the first option at the expense of, or at least before, the second--is not recognizing the reality of things: that not all people are not equal in terms of their capacity, that some need more help than others--and moreso, that some will take advantage of the system in any way that they can, no matter who it hurts. "

What you don't get, a consequence of your splitting and gutting the concept of Truth into big 'T' and little 't' knockoff's of Truth, is that the concept of Individual Rights, and the Property Rights inherent in them come prior to your desire to take a persons property to 'help' someone who hasn't earned or been given right to that property.

If you and your big hearted buds want to pool your own property to help out those in need, you're free to do so! If your plan is sensible (fosters earning rather than leaching) I'll happily contribute what I think is worthwhile. You, however, don't have the right to use the Gov't as a stickup man to do with my property what pleases your whims - sensible or otherwise.

Understanding and abiding by that inclines one towards being a Classical Liberal, not understanding and abiding by that declines one towards progressive-marxist-socialist-communist-leftist-progressive (I think that's where the current name switching progression is up to, Integralism not having swept up the popular catchphrases yet).

It is that simple, that black and white.

Van Harvey said...

BTW, as penance for my earlier html link gaffe, [b]Will[/b], doesn't do anything; you switch the '[' &']' brackets for '<' & '>' symbols, and you're in business.

River Cocytus said...

Sue- definitely.

But some will not let the Truth get in the way of their projections.

Anonymous said...


"How can you doubt the spiritual role of our country when THESE are the ideal we go to war for these ideals?

"Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watch fires of a hundred circling camps
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps;
His day is marching on.

I have read a fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel;
“As ye deal with My contemners, so with you My grace shall deal”;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet;
Our God is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free;
While God is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! While God is marching on."

Anonymous said...

Can I get a glory, hallelujah?

Anonymous said...


Just remember My own swarm of red dots will be trained on your beaner as well. I'll thank you to use my proper name from now on, if you'd like same courtesy returned to you. It must be your flu-meds & high fever speaking again. Rest now, we can dual laterz when you're back to speeling proepperly annd your doubble vission goess awaay. Yunno I have a soft spot for the sick & feeble-minded and won't dual with them. Think: Lara Croft. ]:D

- PrincessSpirit -

Anonymous said...

Di Opresso Libre

Anonymous said...

That's 11 comments today Luke. Out of 83.

I just skimmed them and hid them, but still. You're out of control.

You're so wound up in the trivial. It's like you take these matters personally. But in reality, spiritual matters are entirely transpersonal. No need to get your panties in a bunch.

My sympathies to your brother in law. I'll pray for his recovery. May God's will be done.

Anonymous said...


Guarantee you no leftie wrote THAT!

Anonymous said...

Hmm, my laser designators are all IR and NVG compatible -why are y'all usin' old techmology?



Anonymous said...


Your obcession with my number of posts is not trivial? 11/83 is only about 13 and a quarter percent of postings, but that does not include volume, so I suspect you are way off the mark in terms of word count.

I was not even angry today, and you spend your time trying to jam me up, and follow it with some self-rightouesness slathering about my brother in law?


Too funny.

Ole "Mean Gene" warned me there would be days like this, and people like you.

Last time I looked, this was Bob's blog, and I have seen him delete postings before. I don't think you should be too concerned since the Racoon Sensei can dike me off at will.

Maybe you should appeal to Bob instead of trying to pick a fight with me?


Van Harvey said...

Psych-oo P2,
Get a grip.

Anonymous said...

Obviously the Princess is easily offended and carries a grudge for a long time.
Your words stung because they were true.
She isn't mature enough to recognize a rebuke of wisdom.

NoMo said...

Not to offend, but the egosterone's smellin' funky in here. Can't imagine what it'd be like if GB was really runnin' for Pres.

ximeze said...

oh mysteriss of vertical a...

sorry, i have to whisper right now

finally, She went into her cage, managed to clip the door shut & cover Her, with only a nip or two, but i'm sure She's listening, even now....

beg forgiveness, oh mysteriss, She made me do it... should never have taught Her to type... thought it would be a harmless pastime.....little did i know... She glares at me, threatening with that wicked black mandible, grinding that lower jaw, making sure i hear it....

i will lie to Her rather that act against your pleasure, no matter what it cost me personally.....

did your royalness say ummmm....ambassador?

Anonymous said...

HOARHEY, please re-read what I wrote. I did not say that those two views were mutually exclusive; in fact, my point was that--as I clearly wrote--they are "two equally important sides of the same coin."

Further, you say that "the poor of today live as well as the middle class of the 1960s." Is that really true? Are you sure? Methinks you are seeing with rose-tinted goggles.

COUSIN DUPREE, you may be right that I am (overly) politicizing issues that are existential, spiritual, etc. But I am only of the "Left" in relation to folks on this board; to some of my more leftist friends (and parents), I am more right. But, as my moniker says, I like to think that my worldview embraces both Right and Left.

As for my life, well that is a personal question! It is a work in progress...why do you ask? I will say that as I have gotten older I have become more conservative (although still a raging bleedin' heart compared to most folks here! ;). So I understand the move from Leftism "rightward" as a kind of maturation, but my own journey has been towards integralism, not the Right.

But who knows what the future will bring?

MIKEZ, the difference is mainly in emphasis: opportunity vs. equality.

Yeah, quotas are an example--imo--of "Leftist bandaids" gone too far, where the "medicine" almost causes more harm than the "sickness." Or, at the least, merely re-inforces it.

VAN, I am only a Leftist if you only see two choices, Left and Right. But there is a third choice...(at least!)

SUSAN LEE, nice post. I'm not sure I would phrase things exactly the way you would, but I agree with the gist of what you are saying, which is similar to the concept of dharma in Vedic/Hindu culture. "Living one's dharma" is akin to living one's God-given purpose.

Where I see a problem is the severe economic imbalance. Let's say God wants Jack to be a janitor, and Bill to be a multi-national CEO. If both are living as God asks them to live, why should Bill make a billion dollars a year and Jack only $15,000? I don't even have a problem with there being a wide range possible, just the severe imbalance. Now I am not an economist or a political philosopher--far from it--so I have no idea how to practically address this problem. But I do think it is a problem.

But understand that I am not totally bagging on the USA; I just think it has a light and dark side, and it seems that the Right and Left often are only able to see one side of things. So here people talk about how great America is, how its ideals are unsurpassed, etc; while on a more leftist board people will talk about corporate greed, global exploitation, economic disparity, etc. Which is correct? I am saying BOTH, at least to some degree.

Back to VAN. What is your understanding of what I mean by truth and Truth?

But I'm still not sure how Classical Liberalism--at least as you speak of it--is any different than Libertarianism. As I've said, I would be more of a Libertarian (and Classical Liberal) IF more people were at that stage of development, especially in terms of morality.

And no, it is not that simple, not that black and white. That is the easy way out.

Anonymous said...


A few questions:

What do you think would happen if our society fully adopted a classical liberal/libertarian system at this point where "not enough people are at that level of development" and why are those things bad?

Why is the example of inequality that you put forth bad?

Why is it bad that some people are greedy, exactly, when people have free choice to deal or not to deal with greedy people?

To what principles are appealing to when you decide what is bad about these things.

River Cocytus said...

Integralist. The existence of Christ demands a verdict. There is no other Jesus in any other religion.

I think your stumbling block simply is this:

1 John 2 (20-29)

... But ye have an unction (annointing, as with oil) from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist (or ante, as before instead of against), that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.]

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

-- I'm not telling you that you need to go to church. I'm telling you that this evidence demands a verdict. And the response to this evidence says a lot more than most people are willing to believe.

Consider it a conviction.

Anonymous said...

"The Founding Fathers would have recognized a Protestant Christian concept known as "The Calling",

Or, as some of us would call it, the Catholic Christian principle of "vocation". ;)

Luke, prayers up for your brother-in-law.

Anonymous said...


You are a coward. Craven, cruel and spineless. You have a quiver full of arrows of outrageous fortune that you lob around here expecting someone to respect you.

You are a liar. Disingenous and disagreeable. You trot out little platitudes as though you believe them, but they're old chestnuts to those who have been around the block.

You state, "I am only a Leftist if you only see two choices, Left and Right. But there is a third choice..."

Liar. There is only denial of your own choice. Third way, my aching feet! The third way must have your mustache tickling your butt.

You state: "If both are living as God asks them to live, why should Bill make a billion dollars a year and Jack only $15,000? I don't even have a problem with there being a wide range possible, just the severe imbalance."

Disingenous at best. You do care about even the smallest so-called imbalance. You care deeply, your greed and outrage is merely running around in drag, dressed up as compassion. You are a liar at the core and can't even see it.

Integralist, bring your "A" game or get out. You are smarmy, insincere, cowardly and deceitful and self-deceived.

Moreover, you are not hungry. That is why, up until now, I've mostly ignored you. Your insincerity is not lost on me, and although the younger pups around here find you fascinating, I find you cruel and crass and not worth the time.

Do you really think you are being sincere? Do my remarks make everyone here gasp at my lack of compassion? Then these words are also directed at the anonymouses who goad the silly younger raccoons into feeling guilty for not accommodating your games.

As someone earlier proclaimed, you are merely UNman. About time someone thrashed you into sensibility and sincerity, but you are evil in every sense of the word that is opposite of sincere, honest, and True. Absolutely evil.

Bring it. Bring it to someone who is unafraid of you, who has worked with the poor in three different countries and knows the end of your arguments, the despair, death, and hopelessness that the ends of your thoughts bring about. Bring it. I will stack my experience up against your thin arguments any day of the week.

Bring. it.

You liar.

Van Harvey said...

Integralist said..."VAN, I am only a Leftist if you only see two choices, Left and Right. But there is a third choice...(at least!)"

There may be three or more choices, but still only two results. Right, Left & Rino are still only left and right.

"why should Bill make a billion dollars a year and Jack only $15,000? I don't even have a problem with there being a wide range possible, just the severe imbalance."

Because Bill does something that is valuable to people who are pretty convinced that few other than Bill can do it as well, and Jack does something that people are pretty convinced most people can do with out a whole lot of time and expense getting them up to speed.

We don't pay Baseball players $15 million. WE pay $10-$15 to see them play for about 3hrs, it's the Team owners who figured out a way to let thousands of us see, and millions more on tv, them play; and the owners then route a % of that total to them because they know that I wouldn't pay a nickel to see my neighbor, or the security guard at the park play for 3 or 30 hours. People are paid for the value earned and or what others consider to be a value they are willing to fork over from what they've earned - they are not paid out of a sense of 'fairness'.

"Now I am not an economist or a political philosopher--far from it"
It shows in your economic and political commentary - study it a bit more (yes a slight zing, but the point is valid).

"But I'm still not sure how Classical Liberalism--at least as you speak of it--is any different than Libertarianism."

True Libertarian's believe that 'Liberty' is a starting point for political philosophy, Classical Liberal's believe that philosophy and particularly ethics is the starting point, which if followed leads to Liberty. Libertarians lead to libertines - support for org's such as nambla being an example. There are many who place themselves in the libertarian court without realizing that - they should look into it deeper.

"As I've said, I would be more of a Libertarian (and Classical Liberal) IF more people were at that stage of development, especially in terms of morality."

People aren't ready for self government...Indians aren't ready for civilization... Slaves aren't ready for freedom... women aren't ready to vote.... It was a lame argument 3,000 years ago, it's a worse one today. Show me a single time in history where people have grown in any meaningful way from being given, coddled, protected from reality. Happy reading.

"And no, it is not that simple, not that black and white. That is the easy way out."
The simple is rarely easy to carry out, it is only simple to see what is right and what is wrong. Evading reality is what is simple. For the short term. But those chickens, when they come home to roost... Beaky's got nothing on their mandibles.

"Back to VAN. What is your understanding of what I mean by truth and Truth?"

Integralist, you assert and you accuse and you posture and then attempt to mollify, but rarely do you explain, elucidate or teach. Your turn.

Van Harvey said...

Joan of ARRRGGGHHH!!!! said..."Do you really think you are being sincere? Do my remarks make everyone here gasp at my lack of compassion?"

I REALLY Like (I have to use that 'L' word... my wife would bean me in my sleep) You!

So early to be thinking the same thoughts.

Anonymous said...

As Joan gains the new title of Arrgius Maximus.

I knew I should have stayed up later last night.

When I was a child, I thought as an Integralist, I spoke as an Integralist. But now I am a man, and I have put away childish things.


Anonymous said...

Obviously USSBen is too immature to know how to take someone elses jokes! Not that its any of his business. Don't presume to speak for me, Ben, as I dont speak for you. If I'm offended, I'll let VANA know. In the meantime, the jokes are ours. VANA can handle himself. So can I. If he dishes it out, he can certainly take it in return. If it were a grudge, I wouldn't be joking good-naturedly. Too bad you missed that.

Anonymous said...

Uh oh. Mutiny. Keelhaul party.

Van Harvey said...

Psych-oo P2,

Sorry, your own confusion over your own name has left me in confusion about how to refer to you.

It's ok, I don't mind VANA (all caps seems a bit childish, but hey, you're just expressing yourself), it reminds me of my Grandma.

The new name you've selected for yourself however, reminds me of a deoderant, and I just can't bring myself to type it.


Anonymous said...

Mr. Godwin, I would vote for you in a heartbeat.

MikeZ said...

If I were to read only the last posts by integralist and joan of arrgh, I would have no hesitation in deciding which of the two is more civil.

Anonymous said...

Yes, but my name is not Joan of Civil. And I make no pretense to it, when confronted with gussied-up insincerity.

Why, sometimes, when someone seems to be in a deep sleep, or possibly dead, you have to shout and slap, just to get them to breathe. I would not hesitate to use this tactic again on any other poseur.

Van Harvey said...


Civility and manners are fine things to be sure, as far as they go.

But civility and manners can be the result of wisdom, and so displayed, or not, as is wise; or they can be an affectation maintained as deemed useful, perhaps as you are being swindled or even stabbed in the back.

The very best of con-men understand that thoroughly.

Dangerous business to forget that.

Anonymous said...

VAN: Heh, I didn't have any confusion over my own name: Inty has mass confusion over his identities. He felt it necessary to hack my Google acct. to steal my identity, so i chose to change my nic.

"PrincessSpirit" sounds like your deodorant you say? Fess up: you obviously used your wifes deod at least once when yours was out! C'mon, yunno you sniffed it! Here I thot you used only manly OldSpice & RightGuard stuff. Well, I am rather silky to the touch, I do smell fresh & nice & I'm white so yes I see the resemblence. :D

Prin, Princess, or PS2 will do then, since PrincessSpirit gives you flashbacks. Feel better soon. Hugs to you too!

- Princess -

Anonymous said...

MIkeZ: The Left tries to fleece the Right on issues like Love & Civlity thusly: "Jesus was always loving; Jesus was always civil." Nothing seems wrong w/these statements but Left gets it wrong. Jesus IS Applied Grace & Law both. Jesus IS always Loving AND Confronts; Jesus IS always Civil AND is Bold/Assertive. Left leaves out the Balance. We grow in balance-skill to address, confront & limit evil in self, ones children, others, community etc. Words apart from what one judges civil+nice are called for at times just as Assertion is needed but often mistaken for Aggression.

Jesus told Peter "Get Thee behind me Satan!" Was He civil? Jesus said "You Brood of Vipers! You're Whitewashed Tombs, Rot inside of Grave, Dead mens Bones, Death & Decay." Do the Lords words meet Your criteria of Nice & Civil? Perhaps you may need to revise. Jesus is both Fierce and Forgiving. Confronting Assertively and Humorously Accepting. Bold & Meek. Condemning (Judgment Day) and Loving (Salvation.) Lion & Lamb. To NOT be balanced is NOT Loving, not Godly, but is cruelty. Balance is to move in Oneness w/God. Most of us work on our Balance-in-Him.

Left denies balance, seizes Moral high ground to look as if THEY are Civil & We arent. THEY are accepting & we are "bad" confronting them. They don't correct self, hate when we confront them & rebel against us/God/Truth. 1 of their Fav Lies is "Confronting is Bad!" They demand we not confront or reveal their evil. Nothing stops them from choosing Balance; yet they choose to go against it & remain imbalanced. When they choose balance they grow in our direction. Civility by itself w/o Justice or Love is cold manners asa hired Butler performs w/o warmth. Civility w/Honest Integrity is boldly loving like Grandma who bakes your fav cookies AND boxes your ears when needed. "Bold Love" book by Dr. Dan Allender teaches us to Discern which is which.

A Just Wise Wo/Man always seek to stay Balanced: Firmly Assertive, just enuf anger-boldness-confrontation skills let them know s/he'll not be tricked, abused or used as a FoolsTool ALONG WITH Flexibility of forgiveness, humor, restoration, FOR vs AGAINST when possible. When other side isnt loving & repeatedly wars we must take up arms against. War is not Civil but it can be Just. War is not preferable but is necessary at times. Balance is best & hardly leads to War WHEN ALL parties give it. Many dont. Imbalance results in lies like "Jesus never confronted anyone!" being palmed off as Truth when it isnt.

Firmness + Flexibility Both, not one or other. Exercise both to possess Civility, Nobility + Integrity. Lose Flexibility = Become Autocratic (too much firmness). Lose Firmness + Boldness = Become Passive-Wimpy (too much passivity.) Both are Radical Extremes of Right-Left. Balance Trumps Both Extremes.

You always know where you stand when a man shows you "the knife in his hand." Upfront people are Bold-but-Balanced about their feelings. They might be angry but they also offer humor, forgiveness, teaching, empathy, etc. Such people are usually Safe & BE Authentic, revealed, nothing hidden.

If a man is Yes-man, never disagrees, never objects, smiles all the time, isnt upfront w/his true feelings, you can trust that man to stab you w/the blade hidden behind his back (within himself.) He Bottles n Blows. He projects onto you. Repeated abuse is not Civil & must be confronted & contained. Its why we have Criminal Justice & Jails. Satan as Angel of Light inflicts most damaging lies at whisper-level. Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis is great book on enemy tactics.

Authenticity, Transparent Honesty, Integrity, Courage to Confront & Courage to Forgive best upholds Bold Love & Nobility in Balance, even in war, as Balance refuses to sink to imbalance & savagery.

- Princess -

Anonymous said...


I'm not one to sling the word "liar" lightly. And sometimes people haven't a clue how they come across while putting their best wheedling foot forward. I don't engage in ad hominem based on anyone's weaknesses, but I will call out someone who is playing games, or is so cranial-rectally impaired that they need intervention.

It's not a passionate thing toward Integralist, it's a compassionate defense of the poor who have suffered under the delusions of his ideas in action.

And I'll be yet more vile, when I think of the inumberable multitude of suffering peoples around the globe who have no choice but be governed by ideas and egos that leave them bereft of hope or opportunity. And for what personal gain for those in ivory towers? A feeling of guilt assuaged.

The boundaries of Hell will have to be enlarged to contain egos so grand and evil. Integralist needs to know what he is dabbling in, where it is taking him, and that it is not just a harmless "philosophy" that affects no one but himself.

What he proposes is evil because it distorts the absolute of Truth, dilutes it with "what ifs" and evicerates the plain and simple. He is no closer to being "convinced" than the first day he arrived. His insincerity needed to be called out, and others need to be warned.

My feelings haven't been hurt by him, my life hasn't been threatened, my faith hasn't been shaken or even stirred by one of his questions or positions. It's the others I'm concerned for, the victims of such foolishness perpetrated and put forth as as,

"did God really say, thou shalt not...?"

Evil snake on a plane of indifference hurtling to the ground.

Anonymous said...

ALAN, to answer your first question last, I am appealing to my own principles, by "best guess" as to what is Good, True, and Beautiful. This includes the fact that my "best guess" is always changing, hopefully evolving.

As for the first three questions, the key point is that "free choice" must include understanding, and understanding is developmental. Most people don't have "free choice" to avoid eating McDonald's simply because they don't have adequate understanding--both in terms of knowledge and discrimination.

RIVER COCYTUS, that is not "evidence." As you say, that is conviction--your conviction (belief). What if Geshe, a Tibetan man, said that he was equally convicted in a similar way about some Buddhist sutra? What then?

JOAN, nothing worth commenting on. I won't play your game.

VAN, don't you think a balance is necessary? Do you have children? Isn't some balance needed, softness and hardness, depending on context?

Btw, you evaded my question about truth.

Anonymous said...

No, darlin' Inty. I'm the only one here not playing your game. It matters not a whit to me if all the others, including Bob, engage you and pity you and answer you.

I've found you out. And, as one who knows full well how to doubt herself, check her instincts, refrain from rashness, second-guess her motives, and re-assess her assumptions, I feel not one twinge, not one iota of worry about my summation of your intentions, your delusions, and the unknown-to-you consequences of your ivory tower dream of a gray world.

Step out of the gray and you, too, will hate it as much as the rest of us do. I don't hate you, I hate the thing in you that is insincere, non-thirsty, and bent on dragging others into your gray fog.

Let Bob ban me, but here I make my stand: You live a lie, and I will not stand by and play nice.

Gagdad Bob said...

Ban you?

Only if show signs of losing your superb coon vision.

And even then, you're not banned. You just become Raccoon emeritus, joining the ranks of immortals such as Toots Mondello and Herman Hildebrand.

Anonymous said...

Joan, if you doubt my sincerity than we have nothing to say to each other. You choose not to respond to the content of my posts and instead insult my character, and then are lauded by the Blogmaster for having "coon vision"! Unbelievable.

Like Bob, you aren't even really communicating to or with me, but a phantom in your own mind, a straw man.

Van Harvey said...

" Most people don't have "free choice" to avoid eating McDonald's simply because they don't have adequate understanding--both in terms of knowledge and discrimination. "

That is such absolute crap. To equivocate on a sane person’s breadth of understanding as canceling out their free will is to discard the concept of free will lock, stock and barrel, not to mention their ability to identify facts, think and discover the truth for themselves. These are not cattle, they are human beings whether or not they choose to act like it.

"VAN, don't you think a balance is necessary? Do you have children? Isn't some balance needed, softness and hardness, depending on context?"

Again you seek to equivocate (the soul 'leg' of the leftist, Chomsky being the current master of the tactic - when you reject reality and truth, you reject reason, and so have few other tactics to fall back on. Prove me wrong.) a question of right and wrong with the tactful balancing of the legitimate preferences of one person with the differing preferences of another. As if to rob someone or not to rob someone were on an equal moral footing with choosing between pizza or burgers. You do not seek a balance between one person’s desire for soda and another’s desire for cyanide.

You do not seek to strike a balance between right and wrong, you seek to identify the truth and hold to it. I have three children, ages seven through just short of nineteen, and each of them knows better than you to attempt such an 'argument' with me, and moreover they (and I) would be ashamed if they knew I had heard they'd tried such a crude tactic to slick their way over on someone else.

No I didn't evade your question about truth, I rejected it. We've entered that discussion before, you have yet to make any reasoned response other than arbitrary doubts and what if's. It is your turn to explain your position, if you have one, or admit defeat and drop it.

And by our last exchange on my site you know that I fully agree with Joan about the consequences of what your desire to 'integrate' left and right. Nothing but moral, spiritual and physical destruction can follow from it.

You have not yet made a single argument amounting to anything more than castigations of others rigidity and blindness, and have done nothing yet to show the wisdom of your squishy flexibility or the grounded truths your clearer vision affords you. I do enjoy an argument, but not an extended display of mental bait and switch.

It does get old. Quite simply, put up or shut up.

Anonymous said...

Integralist said:
"Like Bob, you aren't even really communicating to or with me, but a phantom in your own mind, a straw man."

You've been around here long enough for people to discern where you are coming from.
Reasoning and truth like a laser beam has no effect on you because your life is all about deconstruction and confusion, the exact opposite of integration.
You ARE a strawman, a man with nothing inside that recognizes truth. A hollow man where goodness and reason can find no refuge, nothing to cleave to. I've got news for you, the phantoms are residing in your mind as they change their positions daily.
Will was spot on about the rocky soil. Only I would add pure rocks and a torrential rain to make sure NOTHING takes root.
Hopefully Bob moves on tomorrow, this guy just gets off on the attention.
And yes, I've just moved into Joans camp. Civility just makes you worse.

Anonymous said...

Gotta comment, gotta comment! Like Van, I only made it to paragraph 6 and was already thrilled. {have since gone back and read the whole thing and printed out for my own raccoons here in Germany.]

The Raccoon Revolution: Let the Cheerful Mischief Begin!

Raccoons are such a quintessential American animal.

I'd vote for the Raccoon Party.

I stand with the Raccoons against the UNman too.

who is only a 'possum

Anonymous said...


Your first paragraph proves that you have more coon in you than possum.

Anonymous said...

German raccoons!

Imagine how fun the next Raccoon Convention could be if we let the Germans bring the beer! (But they have to include Guinness, cuz those are the rules.)


Possums is okay, as long as they don't "play possum".

Anonymous said...


I could definitely bring the German beer.

No playing possum here. Occasionally overwelmed by dazzling light though.

Sehoy, raccoon-wanna-be