You asking me? That's a bit above my praygrade, but I've always wondered what's the point if it was all predetermined from eternity. Some folks find that comforting. Others find it puzzling.
Is every man's story -- including Jesus' -- is already written? Why then bother living it out in time? Indeed what is the point of time if it's really just the serial unfolding of a predetermined sequence? Why stretch out what has already occurred necessarily? Why leave us in suspense -- suspended between the present and future? Why do we have to wait for what is inevitably going to happen anyway?
Why even do anything when it has already been done?
Hope is a theological virtue. But does it make any sense to hope for what is bound to happen anyway? That's a variant of the definition of insanity: doing anything at all and hoping for an outcome different from the preordained one.
I couldn't believe that if I wanted to. But I don't want to, because it simultaneously explains too little and too much. In explaining everything it explains nothing.
Anyway, back to the question of whether God took a risk with the Incarnation, or whether the whole thing was scripted from eternity.
I'm thinking in particular of the Crucifixion. Was this truly the plan all along? If so -- no irreverence intended -- then some plan. If I understand correctly, a Swiss watch. In other words, if God could foresee the horror of his own torture and death, why not tweak the plan to insure a less gruesome outcome?
Could it be that the Passion was a creative response to contingent events as they unfolded on the ground? Supposing that humans were truly free in their responses to Jesus, then how could it be otherwise? How can Christ be the victor if the game is rigged from the start?
Now, the traditionalist will argue, I suppose, that the Crucifixion was the most fitting plan, with the best possible outcome -- similar to the felix culpa of the fall, which paves the way for the greatest possible good, which is to say, the incarnation and redemption of Christ. It implies that God's grace and mercy are so powerful that they can turn even the greatest evil into a source of immense good.
But again, if the whole thing is predetermined, I fail to see the point, because we're all just NPCs in God's already completed script.
Gemini, are there any theologians who argue that Christ's Crucifixion wasn't foreordained or inevitable, but rather, more of a creative response to how he was received by people?
Many traditional Christian theological perspectives, particularly those within Calvinist traditions, emphasize God's sovereignty and foreknowledge. From this viewpoint, Christ's crucifixion was part of God's divine plan from the beginning. This perspective highlights the idea that Christ's sacrifice was necessary for the atonement of sins, and therefore, it had to occur.
Alternative Perspectives (Contingency):
Some theologians propose that while God may have foreseen the possibility of the crucifixion, it was not necessarily a predetermined event. Instead, they emphasize the role of human free will and the responses of people to Jesus's teachings and actions.
This view suggests that the crucifixion occurred as a result of the choices made by individuals and authorities at the time. Therefore, while God may have used this event for redemptive purposes, it was not an inevitable outcome.
"Open Theism" holds that God does not know absolutely everything that will happen in the future, but rather that God knows all that can be known, and that the future is partly open, dependent upon human free will. Within this viewpoint, the crucifixion would be viewed as a result of human free will. It arose from the interplay of human choices and historical circumstances.
Hartshorne in particular "reframes the crucifixion as a tragic event that reveals God's deep involvement in human suffering, rather than a predetermined act in a divine script."
Okay then. This prompted me to pull out Hartshorne's Philosophers Speak of God, because it has a lot of good stuff in it, even if Hartshorne himself goes too far in limiting God. Rather, there must be a better way to balance human freedom with divine omnipotence and omniscience, and we aim to do that.
Let me first finish reviewing what Hasker has to say about the risk God takes in creating truly free creatures. He writes that
God's capacity to control the detailed course of events is limited only by his self-restraint, not by any inability to do so.
This is somewhat similar to the Kabbalistic idea of tzimtzum, whereby God willingly "contracts" himself in order to make a space for an autonomous creation with genuine freedom.
The question is, "Is it better if God takes risks with the world, or if he does not?" Is it actually preferable to have "a world in which nothing can ever turn out in the slightest respect differently than God intended"? If that's the case, then "the significance and value of human creativity" is essentially nullified, because "our most ennobling achievements are just the expected printouts from the divine programming."
Back to the Incarnation: are the actions flowing from Christ's human nature just "the expected printouts from the divine programming"? Or are they contingent upon the free actions of events and people around him? Again, how could the whole thing be scripted from eternity and temporally free? Which is to say necessary and contingent?
I'm going to let that question percolate, because I've never actually thought through the implications. But somehow, God had to plan a world in which his designs would be achieved by creatures acting freely. A tall order!
My brain is a little overwhelmed at the moment, since there are so many different directions I could take the post, and there are a number of different sources I want to bring into the discussion, and where to begin?
Here's just one, from a philosopher and theologian named E.S. Brightman, cited in Philosophers Speak of God:
it is religiously much more essential that God should be good than that he should be absolutely all-powerful. Hence, not a few thinkers have suggested the possibility of a God whose power is in some way limited.... foreknowledge inevitably contracts freedom.
Or this, from Jules Lequier:
God, who sees things change, changes also in beholding them, or else he does not perceive that they change.... it is necessary to recognize that either God in his relationship to the world contracts a new mode of existence which participates in the nature of the world, or else this world is before God as though it did not exist.... God, who sees these things change, changes also in beholding them.
We're only just beginning, but we'll end this post with an observation by Louis Dupré:
In giving birth to the finite, God himself inevitably assumes a certain passivity in regard to the autonomy of finite being, a passivity that may render him vulnerable and that indeed, according to the Christian mystery of the Incarnation, has induced him personally to share in the very suffering of finite being.
2 comments:
Is every man's story -- including Jesus' -- is already written? Why then bother living it out in time?
Now there's a thought. I'm reminded of a video I saw recently, of an array of double pendulums and how their motion over time wavers between chaos and order.
Even those simple machines, while constrained to their simple parameters, have a wide range of possible behaviors. How much more complex, then, is man? On the one hand, predictable, but on the other, chaotic. With that in mind, the story of Christ couldn't truly have been solidly pre-determined. Starting with Mary's "Yes," there was always the possibility that things could have gone differently. She could have hesitated, or Joseph could have turned her away. The Wise Men could have ignored the warning and gone back to Herod. The story would still have worked out for the good of mankind, but it could have been very different in execution.
Good evening, and congratulations Dr; the post makes a fascinating read.
I'm curious why you have not yet dropped further discussion of predetermination, after having debunked it thoroughly.
But I will kick predetermination again while it is down, just to make sure it stays there.
From the post: "God's capacity to control the detailed course of events is limited only by his self-restraint, not by any inability to do so."
This is key.
We call from past discussions that God has a serious boredom problem stemming from a serious loneliness problem; unchecked, solitude and boredom with no hope of relief is an abomination. God, who we consider alone with his Cosmos, needs to get very creative to create some company and some spontaneity.
And He does this precisely by not exercising full control over His own creations. This is an obvious solution to God's most pressing problem, how not to suffer the twin terrors of loneliness and boredom.
For a person stranded on an island, even a basketball can be turned into a good friend, as portrayed by Tom Hanks in his movie Castaway.
Our organization thinks the cosmos is God and vice-versa. Alone. Isolated. Bored. But fortunately His powers of imagination are intense, so He put the cosmos into play.
A little known quality of God is that He enjoys the company of stars. That's right, stars. Not movie stars. Red giants, yellow medium, blue neutron, black holes, the works. They are conscious in their own fascinating way.
And planets. They are pretty fun too.
After getting a smidge jaded with these God put life into play, and parted himself into little dough-balls called souls which park themselves in the living bodies. And then the drama starts. Oh my.
God enjoys the novelty. He does not know exactly what is going to happen with people; and then a magic thing happens. God doesn't feel lonely anymore. He doesn't feel bored. He is happy.
Now this is all conjecture mind you. If it turns out there are other Gods out there in some sidereal ether, each with their own created cosmi, then this line of reasoning gets blown out of the water. Back to square one.
Is determinism dead enough for you now?
Regards, Trench
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