"To speak of the Absolute," writes Schuon,
is to speak of the Infinite; Infinitude is an intrinsic aspect of the Absolute. It is from the "dimension" of Infinitude that the world springs forth; the world exists because the Absolute, being as such, implies Infinitude.
I understand this description perfectly. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is correct. As it so happens, I believe it is correct "as far as it goes," but it doesn't go far enough, nor does it account for, or delve into, what I regard as the most important meta-principle of all, which is to say, Person, and all this implies (e.g., relation, love, intelligence, freedom, creativity, etc.).
We'll get into it more deeply as we proceed, but I don't see how we can ever arrive at Personhood unless we begin there.
While I gather my thoughts, let's what Sr. D. has to say.
--If God were not a person, He would have died some time ago.
--The existence of God is indemonstrable, because with a person the only thing we can do is bump into him.
--For God there are only individuals.
--The two poles are the individual and God; the two antagonists are God and man.
--God exists for me in the same act in which I exist.
Perhaps it's a left brain-right brain thing, or words and music: Schuon's account is almost mathematical in its precision, whereas Davila is always more poetical.
And while looking for those, I found an aphorism that touches on our primordial Slack, another important cosmic principle, or better, mode, since this mode apparently isn't for everyone:
Man needs a busy life. No one is more unfortunate than the idler who was not born predestined to be one. An idle life without boredom, stupidities, or cruelty is as admirable as it is rare.
I am one of those people who not only doesn't need a busy life, but would experience it as a living death. It's one of the reasons I could never be a proper psychologist. I literally cannot relate to the sorts of problems that beset the average man. I'm not bragging. After all, an autistic person could say the same thing, and we don't praise autism as the ideal way for a man to be.
But I must have been predestined to be an idler, since I'm never bored. Except when circumstances force me to be busy.
As for stupidity, I was no doubt less stupid twenty years ago. They say a man reaches his intellectual prime at midlife. Well, first of all, I've always been a little behind my peers -- i.e., immature -- and second, I think I was actually kind of "brilliant" when I was 40 or so. Problem is, I was nevertheless an idiot. Defective software. In other words, I was still a liberal, among other defects.
Along these lines, here's something from Rob Henderson's latest newsletter:
According to both the Talmud and Solon, only at age 30 does a man attain full strength, and “plant his feet firm upon the ground,” according to Confucius.
From 30 to 40, a man often has great strength and energy. But has not yet reached full maturity and wisdom.
And in the Talmud, 40 is the age for “understanding” and 50 for “giving counsel.”
From 42 to 56, says Solon, “the tongue and the mind are now at their best.” In the next phase, 56 to 63, a man “is able, but never so nimble in speech and in wit as he was in the days of his prime.”
Similarly, Confucius wrote, “At 40, I no longer suffered from perplexities,” and “At 50, I knew what were the biddings of heaven.” Although it was not until he was 60 that Confucius says he “heard them with a docile ear.”Likewise, the Talmud states that the full wisdom and dignity of being an elder begins at 60. This is also the age, says Confucius, that men enter into a new relationship with life and death, with the ultimate source of personal values, and with the self.
Back to the subject at hand, which comes down to a priori metaphysics vs. revelation. On the face of it, it would appear that man is in need of the latter because he is incapable of the former.
ALL men? Or are there a few serious idlers who retain the capacity for drilling right down to the core of things and envisioning the naked truth? This latter invites all sorts of frauds and abuses -- call it the yung pueblo syndrome, as discussed a couple of posts back. For it is easy to think one has all the answers. I certainly remember when I did. You know, back in my intellectual prime, when I was so brilliant and all.
Humility. In its absence you are most certainly headed for a fall.
While we're idly milling around, how about we define some terms? For example, what do we mean by the Absolute?
If we were to be asked what the Absolute is, we would reply first of all that it is necessary and not merely possible Reality; absolute Reality, hence infinite and perfect, precisely (Schuon).
I agree with that: the Absolute -- whatever it is and however else we conceptualize it -- is that which must be and cannot not be, on pain of cosmic absurdity and performative self-contradiction. It's what is left when we eliminate all the bullshit: self-evident truths, and all that.
FREE SPEECH, FREE WILL, FREE MARKETS, and FREE THOUGHT in our FREE TIME (slogan for imaginary campaign)
But as Dávila says, The free act is only conceivable in a created universe. In the universe that results from a free act.
Here are some of my bottom-line attributes of the Absolute: the Absolute is Person-Love-Creativity.
Okay, now do Infinitude:
the Infinite is that which, in the world, appears as modes of expanse or of extension, such as space, time, form or diversity, number or multiplicity, matter or substance (Schuon).
This certainly goes to the "many-ness" of things, where as Absoluteness goes more to their sheer existence -- moreover, their existence as this rather than either that or nothing; for "compared to empty space, each grain of sand is a miracle." And thanks to Infinitude, we'll never run out of grains of sand.
I don't recall Schuon ever discussing person or personalism. To the extent that he does, he regards the personal God as already a relative term, specifically, relative to the impersonal Beyond-Being.
As we've discussed before, I like to look at these in a complementary way, similar to how we conceptualize the Trinity as being a single substance despite the relations of the three persons. Analogously, there is a relation between the impersonal and personal, but it's all one divine substance.
In fact, I agree with Norris Clarke that God is ultimately substance-in-relation: there is no substance "behind" or "above" the relations, nor are there relations absent the substance. It's an irreducible complementarity, like man-woman, or time-eternity, or creator-creation.
28 comments:
It is clear that Schuon subscribed to the unimpeachable principle that the ‘the greater cannot arise from the lesser’. Therefore, I wonder whether by ‘impersonal’, he actually meant ‘supra-personal’. What could this mean? Here’s a clue from Mahayana Buddhism:
“The highest reality is not a mere abstraction; it is very much alive with sense and intelligence and, above all, with love purged of human infirmities and defilements.” (D.T. Suzuki)
I'm pretty sure Schuon's ultimate template is the nondual Vedanta of Shankara.
As I turn 62 at the end of this month, I think the age delineations noted in this offering of insights are fairly spot on, though I do not often think of myself as an elder, as the Talumd posits, but simply a sower of seeds, He carries the water. Mostly, though, I attempt to renew my mind, and at times it comes afire.
Yes, that certainly was his template Bob. I guess I’m wondering whether he considered the ‘impersonal’ Beyond-Being as something less than personal or as that which transcends the limitations of ordinary personality as we understand it. Not being (obviously) a reductionist, I can’t imagine that he would posit a truly impersonal reality as the foundation of Being. After all, he does say that the formless, inconceivable Absolute discloses itself as the personal God in order to reach out to mankind and confer salvation. Surely this wouldn’t be possible if the ultimate reality itself lacked an ‘exalted’ dimension of personality, considered as the highest wisdom and compassion.
For it is easy to think one has all the answers. I certainly remember when I did. You know, back in my intellectual prime, when I was so brilliant and all.
The older I get, the less I know. Thank goodness! It's a heavy burden, having all the answers.
Byron--
I'm pretty sure Schuon considered the personal God to be on the relative side of things -- relativity in divina, as he put it.
Yes, that's true Bob but he certainly wouldn't regard the Absolute as 'infra-personal' if you know what I mean. It can only be more than what we understand a person to be, not less. Everything that we value about human personality and consider most precious about it cannot have its genesis in a reality that subverts these very qualities. Schuon undoubtedly considers personhood a divine manifestation – it's just that he sees its source in something quite ineffable that eludes the confines of how finite beings understand personal reality.
I just look at the two approaches as complementary: both/and instead of either/or. Problem solved.
My name is anonymous and I’m a Fox News Junkie.
I was there on day one. Way back when it was Fair and Balanced. Back when Hannity debated Colmes. When Tucker Carlson was one of the bad guys.
Today of course, Kennedy and Gutfield! make fools of themselves to a military expert by declaring that Putin will not attack Ukraine, the day before Putin attacks Ukraine. And Hannity debates with tools far more carefully picked than that milquetoast pre-woke Colmes.
And Tucker Carlson endlessly dodges being one of the bad guys by cunningly standing for nothing. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Endlessly dodging being one of the bad guys while standing for nothing is a serious life skill, especially if there’s a Brandon around to blame. Sadly, the deliciousness of blaming their guy in power does disappear when it’s our turn, but we did keep Obama from implementing Sharia Law, amirite?)
Which leads us to “FREE SPEECH, FREE WILL, FREE MARKETS, and FREE THOUGHT in our FREE TIME (slogan for imaginary campaign)”. I’m all in, literally on board, totally up with that, as long as we can figure out how to keep crappy products that’re mined in Russia and made in China from being advertised on Fox. I dont trust them anymore.
So trust in the Lord everyone. You wont go wrong no matter what else your silly material brains are led to believe.
The fool finds any noble place into which he enters deserted.
Not quite on topic but I’ve just come across these outstanding articles on Voegelin that really go the heart of modernity’s spiritual crisis:
‘The Conservative Thought of Eric Voegelin’(Part1)
https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2016/04/the-conservative-thought-of-eric-voegelin.html
‘What Shaped Eric Voegelin’s Thought?’ (Part 2)
https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2016/04/what-shaped-eric-voegelin-thought.html
Voegelin is always on topic.
"For it is easy to think one has all the answers. I certainly remember when I did. You know, back in my intellectual prime, when I was so brilliant and all."
Ah yes, the good old days. I remember them well... hence the humility of today, closing in on 62 as well.
Rob Henderson implicitly addresses the age old question: are people leftists because they are losers, or losers because they are leftists?
"Researchers wanted to know how certain beliefs about the world influence concrete life outcomes.
"They examined what they termed primal world beliefs.
"Negative primal beliefs were almost never associated with positive outcomes.
Primal beliefs are linked to several key variables:
--Job success
--Job satisfaction
--Health
--Negative emotion (how often study participants felt anxious, angry, sad, etc.)
--Depression
--Attempted suicide
--Life satisfaction
***
So, leftism (not classical liberalism, which is a positive belief system) is like a support group for losers with negative primal beliefs. Except being around such people must only aggravate the condition, in a downward spiral.
Rob Henderson implicitly addresses the age old question: are people leftists because they are losers, or losers because they are leftists?
Good question. I think the answer would be similar to asking the Ukrainian people if they are losers. Maybe it depends on how they handle Putin.
Believing that he roars, the youth brays.
Fishers of men have become poisoners of the truth.
Learn to hide your strikes from your opponent and you'll more easily strike his hide.
Indeed Sphynx. Speaking of Tucker Carlson, is he actually a Russian asset trying to rationalize the Putin shit show horrors of Ukraine? A tool worse than Tokyo Rose except that this is a rich influential American this time? I’m seeing discussions in conservative forums puzzling over why Americans would do their military biological and chemical research in foreign countries. But then I remember the outsourcing of neoclassical neoliberalism. The Wuhan flu was after all, created in China and look what a popular success that’s been.
So who cares? says Michelle Bachmann. They don’t mean anything to Real Americans. And so humbled I move on.
Speaking of losers, I’ve learned that the Beatitudes from my youth were meant for the losers in my adulthood. If one is a poor, mourning, persecuted, meek, hungry, thirsty, merciful, pure in heart, peacemaker (IOW a loser), we must direct them to the Lord to keep them out of the clutches of the Demonic Woke.
Maybe we need an episode from Bob about how if losers can’t be converted to conservative Christianity, then they’ll certainly be converted to gulag Communism. Or a rerun in case I missed that one.
Stupid convictions have the solidity of granite.
Indeed Nicolás. I don't know how else I'd describe Tucker or Michelle either.
Here's the irony of things. The freedom and liberty patriots are anti-authoritarian by nature, since unchecked power in the hands of the few has usually wound up being disastrous.
Yet the current crop of freedom and liberty patriots want unchecked power. Proof? Debate is beneath them because anybody "not them" is so far beneath them that debate is folly.
The sad truth about freedom and liberty patriotism, is that you've gotta debate stuff, just to keep the citizenry on board with freedom and liberty patriotism. Because other stuff always happens. Yet if debate is far beneath them, they've become authoritarian.
Quite the pickle methinks.
The democratic ruler cannot adopt a solution as long as he does not receive the enthusiastic support of people who will never understand the problem.
If only those right wing authoritarians at twitter & facebook would permit open debate.
Twitter and facebook will ban debate which (they perceive) as limiting their incomes. I didn’t write the rules. And apparently neither did you. I think it was Milton Friedman.
Indeed Nicolás. Adding to my Milton Friedman comment, I have noted that he was an advocate of using weasel clauses. Like in his world-famous profit aphorism. It's always the first part everybody remembers, the second part which everybody ignores. Let me explain.
I was in the engineering world once where we also made pragmatic use of weasel clauses. The general idea is that nobody reads the second part, except for the lawyers. The lawyers always read the second part. Think 2nd Amendment. So you write your aphorism in such a way as to gain "enthusiastic support of people who will never understand the problem" yet keeps you out of legal trouble in case legal trouble happens.
In hindsight, I'm not sure what the solution might be, in important things like defending democracy. People around here say to pray like the dickens. I say we pray like the dickens after understanding the second part. Hence all the comment troubles.
Democracy is the political regime in which the citizen entrusts the public interests to those men to whom he would never entrust his private interests.
I believe in science. Yet, ever notice how "political science" isn't really a science? I bet there's a conspiracy behind that.
Do not conflate science with the investigation of material reality. Science is simply an organized body of knowledge; political science is theoretical and practical, existing both to understand human action and to promulgate laws which facilitate virtue.
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