Wednesday, December 30, 2020

Wrapping our Minds Around the Ontology of Trinity and Trinity of Ontology

We've analyzed the first two sentences of Schuon's essay on Man in the Cosmogonic Projection, but with the third sentence things get... interesting:

The divine Essence, "Beyond Being," reverberates in Relativity, giving rise to the Divine Person, to Creative "Being."

Obviously, any sort of fundamentalist or literalist or sola-scripturalist will object to the suggestion that there is something beyond the personal God, or that the personal God is relative to anything; rather, everything is relative to God, and that's the end of it.

I think it's a matter of what you can "wrap your mind around." The great majority of Christians presumably could (or would) never wrap their minds around Schuon's description, which is fine. Indeed, Schuon would say that this is the very purpose of exoteric religion: to provide man with a means to wrap his mind around an ultimate reality that is -- obviously, and by definition -- unwrappable.  Man cannot contain what is uncontainable -- at least outside the fact and principle of Incarnation. 

Incidentally, it's difficult to write about this subject without sounding elitist, or esoteric, or Gnostic, but this is not my intention. Rather, the purpose is fundamentally no different from the fundamentalist, as I'm just trying to conceptualize God in a manner I can wrap my little mind around -- or, more to the point, in a way that doesn't repel what I call my intelligence. Sr. D:

God does not ask for the submission of the intelligence, but rather an intelligent submission.

Nor, of course, would we ever presume to cut God down to the size of our own conceptions of him. Indeed, that is the whole problem of which Schuon is speaking: there is the God we can imagine and the unimaginable Godhead, and these two are distinct but related, in a way that just may be analogous to the reality <---> appearance complementarity discussed in the previous post.

This has been an issue from the earliest days of Christianity. "As the Greek Fathers insisted," writes Ware, "A God who is comprehensible is not God." Rather, such a God "turns out to be no more than an idol, fashioned in our own image."  

[W]e need to use negative as well as affirmative statements, saying what God is not rather than what he is. Without this use of the way of negation, of what is termed the apophatic approach, our talk about God becomes gravely misleading.

Or, "As Cardinal Newman puts it, we are continually 'saying and unsaying to a positive effect.'"  In this mythsemantical realm, negative x positive = a deeper positive.  Call it the metabolism or respiration of mystical theology.

Yes, that's all orthodox, as it places the relativity squarely on our side of the infinite <---> finite divide.  But Schuon is hinting at something more radical, at something that occurs -- if that's the right word -- on God's side of this divide.

Like anybody could know that!

Well, bear with me. In my opinion -- for what it's worth, since I'm just another amateur theographer -- Christian metaphysics tends not to explore and draw the vast metaphysical consequences flowing from a trinitarian Godhead as opposed to a purely monistic one.  If there are no such consequences, then what's the point? Why does God go to all the trouble of disclosing the intimate and indeed personal nature of reality, if it makes no difference to our conception of it (and of him)?

If I'm not mistaken, this is one of the points of the whole communio movement, which highlights the possibility "of created participation in uncreated being ":

Since the being of God is decisive for the being of whatever is not God, the being or nature of the Judaeo-Christian God must be elucidated. 
The first and decisive assertion is that this God is triune, three Persons in one God. Thus are avoided the inadequacies inherent in both polytheism and even certain traditional monotheisms. 
In Greek philosophy substance denotes a being that stands on its own, that does not inhere in nor form part of another being. It tends to connote independence and even separation, apartness, isolation. Baneful results for certain religious approaches to God are obvious, for the deity becomes not only the One, but the Alone, even the Alien. 
The Judaeo-Christian God, on the other hand, and precisely as triune, emphatically reveals that by virtue of his divine unicity God is not reduced to the isolated and phthisic status of a monad. In Greek philosophy substance and relation tend to be mutually hostile, so that the more one really is (substance), the less one is related (relation). 
The ontology implicit in the triune God simply undoes this. For this God, substantial being is being related; relation is substance. Thus, God's very being is the relationships of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, for God is not first Father, and then only derivatively and subsequently Son and Holy Spirit. Rather, the very substance of God is originally communicated Being. Hence, all being, wherever it is in being, is inescapably "being with" (emphasis mine).

It seems that God is an eternal dancing in which dancer and dance can only be artificially or accidentally deustinguished:   

This is aptly expressed by perichoresis, which comes from Greek words meaning "to dance around with." If the anthropomorphism be permitted, perichoresis means that God is so full of being that his oneness is manyness, a manyness that in no way divides or separates, negates or isolates his oneness. 
Thus a term from "to dance" expresses God's being happy with himself, with his shared beingthe being together of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It is a kind of joyful unity in diversity....

With this in mind, I don't think Schuon's characterization is so wide of the mark -- or at least there is a way to reconcile it with a Christian metaphysic:

Within this view it is perfectly "natural" that God, whose very being is communicated plenitude, should also communicate being to that which of itself is not God and, hence, which otherwise is simply not at all. 

(That and previous quotes yoinked from https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/communio)

14 comments:

julie said...

Indeed, that is the whole problem of which Schuon is speaking: there is the God we can imagine and the unimaginable Godhead, and these two are distinct but related, in a way that just may be analogous to the reality <---> appearance complementarity discussed in the previous post.

In a similar way, we react to other people. That is, it seems as though most human interactions involve certain preconceptions between one person and the other. We either try to take people as we think they ought to be, or we take people as they are. For instance, going to meet someone whether as a friend or, say, for an important appointment, we might rehearse in our minds things to say, playing out conversations in advance as though they've already happened as a way to get ahead of what is actually going to happen. Sometimes, we might even be right. Or, conversely, we can just be there, and let things unfold without trying to fit every detail into a particular kind of mold. The latter can be more alarming, particularly for anyone who feels a need to be in control, but it can also allow for things to happen which might otherwise never be possible.

Don't know if that made any sense.

Anonymous said...

This is an interesting post on the trinity and the conception of the nature of God from a Christian viewpoint.

Your language waxes a bit technical in ways that don't come naturally to a non-Christian theologian.

A form of the triune Godhead was advanced by the ancients, who conceived of God as composed of: Being (sat), consciousness (chit) and bliss (ananda). One of their names for God was, unsurprisingly, Satchitananda.

I don't know of that's useful in the context of your post, probably it is not.

Julie, you comment on how to approach happenstance so as to maximize the potential for the Godhead to intervene (by relaxing control) is interesting and I think there is something to this.

The ancients warned against mental "pulling" which was done via a prolonged vehement emotional desire for a set outcome. In the case of a child who wants a certain thing for Christmas, it is better to put the desire out there casually and wait for the big day quietly. The child who nags and pesters about the desired gift may quite likely not get it.

Modern mystics have noted a strong correlation between visualization and outcomes in happenstance. This is different from pulling and cannot be effected with impure motives.

The Cosmos is profoundly entwined with human consciousness; it works directly on matter just like physics. It is probably a legitimate branch of physics which is yet to be unpacked. God of course presides over the whole unfolding.

Anonymous said...

I had my DNA checked and it turns out I have an extreme amount of Denisovan ancestry. The examiners had to check it multiple times and they said they'd never seen anyone with that much Denisovan before, probably 32%. That explains a lot about me and my family.

Our family originally hails from the Caucasus region around Krasnodar in Southern Russia. Our ancestors landed in the UK just after the Crimean War. I think my great-great-grandfather Pyotr was a Prisoner of War in that conflict. Allegedly Florence Nightingale herself treated his war wound in a British military hospital (he lost his right leg above the knee due to a cannonball). After the war he emigrated to the UK. His son Drakow allegedly was a founding member of the British Socialist Party (BSP).

Now I have no reason to be a socialist, but I find myself leaning that way. I was told by members of the family that "we are all like that, we don't know why." I'm thinking, it could be that darn Denisovan ancestry. It is like we aren't fully human.

We all are shamans. We just roll that way. The family gets together and we circle around a fire-pit. It just feels right.

I would like to change. We are so much more than our chromosomes dictate.

Nicolás said...

Today the individual rebels against inalterable human nature in order to refrain from amending his own correctable nature.

Anonymous said...

Happy New Years Eve!

For those who want to honor the 18th Amendment, Martinelli Sparkling Cider is a good substitute for champagne.

Keep your resolutions foremost in mind as the ball drops, and then go take your clothes off and make somebody happy. Let the Lundy Lundy bridge go down.

And live happily ever after.

--Naughty Sarah

Anonymous said...

Happy New Year from your Cetacean friends, the toothed whales (sperm, beluga, narwhal, pilot, orca) and the delphinids (bottlenose, pacific, and spinner)!!

We don't know what the baleen whales (right, humpback, rorqual, minke, blue and gray) have to say and we don't much care.

And no, that dress does NOT make your butt look fat. And we know big butts. The blue whale has an anus that can gape 3.5 feet wide. These dimensions make it the second biggest a--hole in existence after you-know-who. Fill in the blank.

Swim on brothahs and sistahs and remember us hard-charging cetaceans each and every time you watch Blue Planet. Thanks!

Nicolás said...

In order to abolish all mystery, it is enough to view the world with the eyes of a pig.

Anonymous said...

Most men prove Darwin right by walking and talking as though he was right. In effect, the bigger stronger pig. And most ladies are more than happy to oblige. Where’s the mystery in that?

That’s why I like Kenneth Copeland. He’s 5-6, dances impulsively, and speaks in tongues. Plus he’s rich as hell. With all that mystery going on, it’s no wonder all the Christian ladies are swooning.

Nicolás said...

Nothing is more dangerous for faith than to frequent the company of believers. The unbeliever restores our faith.

Anonymous said...

During deep contemplation as a youth, this I heard in my mind's ear--

"Prithee have no doubt;
God is a Rainbow Trout."

I have caught and eaten precisely one Rainbow Trout since this experience, and I did not feel good about it; I'm inclined to believe God is in fact a Rainbow Trout.

Now is this a belief or an unbelief? Does it seem kind of fishy? Does it help to restore your faith?

Please do tell, what is your personal conception of God, Dr. Godwin? Please describe Him.

Other commenters please chime in as well and we shall get to the bottom of this.

--Salmo Trutta Trutta

Nicolás said...

Each one sees in the world only what he deserves to see.

Anonymous said...


I am a Gibbon. A Lar Gibbon (Hylobates lar), to be exact. Not surprisingly, my name is Lars. My fur is amber, and I have white trim around my face.

I am 8 kilograms of badass brachiating attitude. Tarzan? Not even half as fast as this ape. And I punch waaaaay above my weight category.

The secret to my success? Keen vision and reflexes, muscular forelimbs, long grasping fingers, and a shortened spine and legs. I can swing along at 85 kph through the trees. I am the fasting thing in the forest.

Now what does this have to do with the post? To Wit:

Bob wrote: "Why does God go to all the trouble of disclosing the intimate and indeed personal nature of reality, if it makes no difference to our conception of it (and of him)?"

Why indeed? God indeed shows many things, if you know where and how to look.

Now take me, Lars. Think about me in depth and in detail. What can I tell you about the nature of God?

Nicolás said...

God is the transcendental condition of our disgust.

Anonymous said...

Good morning.

Please limit caffeine to under 200 mg today. That would be the amount in two standard cups of coffee.

Your nutrient allowance for today is:

Men: 4000 kcal
Women: 3500 kcal

Please do not exceed your allowance.

Curfew: Currently no curfew is in place. However, please carry identifying documents for presentation to law enforcement if out past 1:00 AM.

Your next stimulus check will be for: 2000.00 USD.

This has been an announcement from the NWO. Always working for you.

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