We've all heard the old saying, de gustibus non est disputandum, which literally means that in matters of taste there can be no disputes. In plain English it means there's no accounting for taste. Among the tenured it means that everything is relative, so nothing is intrinsically superior to anything else, in any dimension (e.g., aesthetics, morality, culture, etc.).
One of our readers is disgusted by President Trump, to such an extent that it is "pushing me towards a belief in the existence of objective evil." Conversely, I am disgusted by the president's haters but believe in the existence of objective evil. Is there any accounting for our differing reactions, or in matters of disgust can there be no disputes?
More generally, disgust is both over- and under-appreciated. I, for example, find it to be a rapid and effective cognitive early warning system. However, our Trump-hating commenter would no doubt say the same thing, and yet, we are disgusted by opposite flavors -- as if what is sweet to him is bitter to me, and vice versa.
Now, some flavors that are initially bitter can become enjoyable; in fact, two of these are central to the Raccoon lifestyle, coffee and beer. In short, one must undergo some gustatory training in order to appreciate some flavors. I suppose the same is true of cigars, or hard liquor, or any number of more subtle distinctions known only to foodies, enologists, and other picky connoisseurs of this or that.
When it comes to disgust, there's always a lot of signaling and social mimicry going on. One signals to one's fellow posers by being attracted to, or disgusted by, the proper things. In the past I've spoken of my father-in-law's ugly collection of modern art. It wasn't disgusting -- like, say, a painting done with menstrual blood -- but just irrelevant to any normal person's conception of beauty.
Clearly, much of politics revolves around this mechanism of tribal signaling. Sometimes the purpose of being in a club is simply to identify whom we may licitly hate. Human nature being what it is, we have to hate someone or something, and politics is a nonlethal way to organize our hatreds. Even (or especially) God hates evil, and if we are the i. and l., then so should we.
Back when I was a knee-jerk lefty, I was disgusted by conservatives, even though I didn't really know any, and knew nothing about conservatism except what I'd heard from fellow members of my tribe. Now I am disgusted by the left, but it's because I'm so familiar with its ideas.
However, a leftist has to go very much out of his way to familiarize himself with conservatism. I live in a deeply blue state and an even bluer congressional district, and toil in one of the bluest of all professions, psychology. I routinely meet people who pretend to understand conservatism, but they are able to articulate only a straw man version to which they react with disgust.
Now, if you're going to be properly disgusted by something, you should at least understand it. I, for example, am disgusted and horrified by socialism, not because I don't understand it, but because I do.
Where is this post going, you might ask? Well, I was thinking of how there is something much deeper than just intellectual agreement. Living as I do among the primitive tribe of Blue Meanies, I am accustomed to "passing." In other words, I am circumspect about revealing my true identity and allegiances. I only know I'm fully in the clear if my interlocutor is absolutely disgusted by the same things: if you share my disgust, then you earn my trust!
Perhaps I should emphasize that this is distinct from merely hating the same things. I don't trust hate. It's too crude and simplistic, not to mention (if you pay attention to it) enjoyable. As alluded to above, it's fun to hate the Bad Tribe. But there's nothing fun about my disgust for, say, Adam Schiff. When I see and hear him on television, I can literally feel the rising of nausea at the base of the throat. That's genuine disgust.
But again, we must be disgusted by the proper things. Our disgust must be rightly ordered. How do we know when our disgust is operating as it should? For example, are "homophobia," or "Islamophobia," or "transphobia" just different names for "normal"?
Let me think for a moment day or two while giving you some aphorisms to ponder:
--I trust less in the arguments of reason than in the antipathies of intelligence.--Our spontaneous revulsions are often more lucid than our reasoned convictions.
--One who does not share our repugnance does not understand our ideas.
--He who does not smell sulfur in the modern world has no sense of smell.
--Nothing makes more evident the reality of sin than the stench of the souls that deny its existence.
--Moral indignation is not truly sincere unless it literally ends in vomiting (Dávila).
In the natural world, disgust signals Danger! Do not swallow! In other words, same as in the transnatural world. Some kinds of fruit may look good but are not to be eaten or even touched without risking death (or so we have heard from the wise).
Liberal ideas are congenial. Their consequences are disastrous (ibid.).
15 comments:
"--Moral indignation is not truly sincere unless it literally ends in vomiting (Dávila)."
[Nods] "Hi...[ulp...] rrrRAPLHKRAMdennnn... [splat]... ahem... Nice to meet you."
Van, lol - from a safe social distance...
Now, some flavors that are initially bitter can become enjoyable; in fact, two of these are central to the Raccoon lifestyle, coffee and beer.
On occasion, I give up adding any cream or sweetener to my coffee. The bitterness makes for a decent penance. Over time, it becomes fairly tolerable, though I can't say it ever becomes enjoyable. It helps to use a brand of coffee you don't find horrible even with the other stuff added, though.
I only know I'm fully in the clear if my interlocutor is absolutely disgusted by the same things: if you share my disgust, then you earn my trust!
Can concur. Though it seems like the ratio of trustworthy to average blue normies is slightly better out where we are than along the coast. Even then, it's hard to open up too much because you just never know for sure, and when they hate you, a great many are all too delighted to try and ruin your life.
Incidentally, this makes parenting in the current era somewhat challenging. Every now and then, the offspring will make a perfectly cromulent and spirited observation about something which, on the one hand, they must be allowed to notice (because it is simply true), but on the other, if they expressed such an observation in pretty much any other company, might be extremely problematic.
Usually, we explain that it's okay to notice these things, but keep it to ourselves out in public because they might inadvertently hurt someone's feelings. Kids do say the darnedest things...
From the post: "Even (or especially) God hates evil..."
This question would require consideration. Evil may serve some purpose in the cosmic economy, in which case God might have an ambivalent relationship to it. Unquestionably evil has been made possible by God as intrinsic to the milieu or set-up created for us to live in. Evil is a harsh teacher; these lessons might be some kind of tough love. One could try to go directly to God with the question "Do you hate evil?" and then parse the response, which may well be subtle or nebulous. Someone should ask this on three consecutive days in prayer and then report back on the response.
Van, I could not decipher what made you vomit. I did like the sound effects. I'm guessing you are used to "passing" in the leftist milieu like Dr. Godwin.
I work for leftist handlers and am involved in penetrating conservative groups, where I have to quickly determine who are the genuine conservatives and who are the poseurs. A real conservative often will not be able to articulate much about conservatism, so I generally assess their lifestyle to get the read. The types of foods and beverages purchased are instructive. Moonshine style liquor is one such obvious tell indicating conservatism, as is Jack Daniels whisky. Leftists will often vape cannabis. Conservatives generally do not consume cannabis or if they do they will smoke it. Converatives fish for bass, but very few leftist will fish for this species.
Anyhoo, the general topic of disgust in this post is another example of Dr. Godwin's amazing ability to bring up interesting topics. Congratulations sir.
A spiritual savant once discoursed on having "a mirror well-placed" in the mind, in which "all things are gathered round it" and people, things, and ideas will "reflect clearly, indicating their worth, and all that is to be avoided will have a smeared, hazy appearance." The savant advised "Do this and you will never be bored."
One could use disgust as this kind of sorting or discriminating mechanism, and Dr. Godwin and probably others do pay attention to disgust to get a reliable read on everything.
-Regards, Lucy the Kommie Mommie
I can appreciate Bob's comment that, "Living as I do among the primitive tribe of Blue Meanies, I am accustomed to "passing." What I also had to learn the hard way was that I am not some kind of apostle to the Blue Meanies, sent by God to turn them from their ways. I had to accept that this was wisdom and not cowardice.
Yes, you're so right. You can't argue them into agreeing or seeing things differently, they just double down or turn the disagreement into a personal attack. It's tar babies all the way down. All you can really do as live as if what's true is True, as best you can (we all fall short, of course). When that happens, sometimes by grace we reach people more clearly than any argument we could come up with, no matter how brilliant.
Think of how difficult it is to change oneself. Changing someone else is harder still. Changing the culture or the course of history is next to impossible -- like imagining one could control the earth's temperature.
Thankfully, "None of the high eras of history have been planned," so "In history it is sensible to hope for miracles and absurd to trust in plans."
Stubbornness is a gift from God and a curse for the cursed. Speaking of which, I'm coming to believe that incorrigible Muslims were placed on this earth to give the rest of us something to shoot at, though perhaps Davila implied that hurling at them would yield better results.
In the last comments section we discussed the joys of farting at will. Is it possible to hurl at will, without lifting a finger?
I think of the possibilities. Since changing others with words is virtually impossible, perhaps barfing on them could work instead? Obviously this wouldn't work on Christians who'd think you either possessed or full of Persian food.
But what if we could soil an orange robe, a beard, or a shtreimel or two just in the course of our daily travels? I mean after the virus scare of course. If everybody pulled together similarly, we could rid our world of undesirables.
A psychologist like yourself must be acquainted with the concept of the morbid, that is, a strong attraction to that which is repellent. I՚m guessing this is something we both suffer from, given that you can՚t stop yourself from obsessing with the disgusting and hated left, and I can՚t stop myself from coming over here to interact with your frankly repulsive views.
“Sometimes the purpose of being in a club is simply to identify whom we may licitly hate. Human nature being what it is, we have to hate someone or something, and politics is a nonlethal way to organize our hatreds.”
Well said and I agree – Except that those hatreds have a way of turning lethal suddenly. When the hate reaches the level of disgust and dehumanization, that is a big red flashing warning sign.
“But there's nothing fun about my disgust for, say, Adam Schiff. When I see and hear him on television, I can literally feel the rising of nausea at the base of the throat.”
Really? Why? Do you think this is a healthy reaction?
I suppose I feel as strongly about Trump. It has nothing to do with “conservatism” or my knowledge of its true precepts, I can see the man on my TV. He is an objectively loathsome human being. Schiff is not. I can see disagreeing with him, but deep-seated revulsion? Can't really imagine how one arrives at that.
Oh well there is an insuperable gulf between my values and yours, apparently. I wouldn՚t care except that your paragon Trump is not just inspiring disgust, he՚s quite literally endangering my life and everybody else՚s. I guess I'm hoping to understand how such a grotesque and degraded figure could inspire such devotion from people claiming to be morally superior, or moral at all.
Anonymous 7:31. I agree, Trump love is baffling. I think Trump serves as a mirror in which his lovers see what they will. I don't think they see him clearly. I view Trump as an extroverted businessman, nothing more or less. He has a business mind-set, and he is morally not of the highest caliber, to put it mildly. He does not either attract or repel me. Trump has all the rights due to any citizen.
Hatred. I don't enjoy the feeling. Perhaps I'm a minority? It is a dreary, exhausting, distracting emotion, hard to carry around, energy sucking, and it tends to diminish quality of life. The concept of joining a club in order to have licit hate targets defined is so alien to my internal compass it is mind-boggling. Anyone else out there feel the same way?
However I do see evidence of people love to hate. Perhaps it invigorates and stimulates? I don't stand in judgement.
The spectacle of organized sports and impassioned team supporters makes me feel like an alien or something. Like I don't belong. I can pass among people talking sports but I also feel like I'm outside looking in. I just can't grok it. I only feel competitive when I'm in the game. At that time something turns on and I become aggressive. But I can't raise that same energy via spectating.
Lastly, vomiting. I recently had a bout of heavy vomiting after bad food, and the next day my rib muscles hurt. It is hard labor to eject stomach contents. The gushing of vomitus from the mouth, the clenching muscles, the sense of being out of control, the smell and sight of the effluvium as it exits and mixes with the toilet bowl water, form a delirious horror. I have never enjoyed vomiting. The sweet viands and liquids you took down become distorted revenants when they come back up, reeking of mutated and outraged amino acids, pepsin ravaged sinews, and zombified citrus zests. Be sorry for the feast you took, it can come back to haunt you.
Now, can vomiting be a political tool? Mass protests with projectile vomiting? This would be a powerful media image. It could be tried, I will bring it up at committee.
-Fawning Nude
Nothing would thrill me more than to see one Trump and another Biden puking it out.
But quite sadly, I suspect that it'll actually be more like two crazy old men taking wild swings at each other, hitting mostly air.
Yes America, we have nearly hit bottom. And there's not a single damned thing any of us can do about it.
Anonymous 11:32 PM - regarding old men...why are our presidential candidates so old? The first criteria we should look for in a president is youthful vigor. The job is a beyotch physically, with all that travel and endless meetings and briefings. The Commander in Chief must be prepared to be rousted from bed at 3:00 AM to meet some crisis, and be bright-eyed and bushy-tailed for 48 straight hours if that's what it took to meet the need. Old is wise, but POTUS needs to be physically robust first and foremost.
Trump for another 4? Can the airframe handle it? Dubious. Biden? Nah. Not him either. We best be looking at those Vice President candidates and picking the most athletic one. The VP might have to pick up the pieces when Humpty Dumpty falls.
Has America nearly hit bottom? Not by a long shot. We have some of the best marijuana on the planet here. Things gonna be fiiiiiiiiine.
-Gastrocnemesis
I once suggested that there should be an NFL style combine for POTUS candidates. The way things are it's like if the team scouts are recommending the coaches fat old brother, or the owners 74 year old wife, to be the teams first round draft pick.
I suggest that all candidates for grueling jobs like POTUS undergo public tests of strength and skill to determine validity. The NFL even gives the Wonderlic test to running backs, the most instinctual of positions. Biden graduated near the bottom of his college and law classes, and Trump raises suspicion pretty much every day. And on top of that both seem to be going senile. Yet the crowds still cheer.
However, do I cut the Republicans some slack because they're governmental nihilists right about now. They say that since nothing good can ever come from any government, it might as well be "our government" running things.
Meanwhile China laughing, spreads it's wings.
But as is Davila wisdom, there's not a single damned thing any of us can do about it. Speaking of which...
Submitted for your approval, we have the story of one Nicky and another Teddy. Two similarly spoiled rich sickly kids who started out in the same place but ended up at very different destinations.
The former embarked on a few travels before committing to a life of misogyny imprisoned inside of a gilded library of his own construction to write thousands of aphorisms, some about hurling. The latter exploded into travel, killing many animals and sometimes people, and shouting “Bully!” everywhere he went.
Go figure. As my man Rod might say:
“If in any quest for magic, in any search for sorcery, witchery, legerdemain, first check the human spirit.”
So to answer you more succinctly... you are probably correct. I do believe that we're actually voting for the VP this time around.
The grocery stores around here seem crowded the last few days. Very odd. I didn't think St. Patrick's Day was such a big deal. I went to get some Tap Ramen noodles, and these were bought out. Ramen for St. Patrick's day? What the heck?
Anybody seen anything strange in their neck of the woods? Sound off.
-Fuzzy Blonde Minge
Everybody has their shopping carts plumb full, even the skinny folks. I just needed ant bait and kitty litter. Normally nobody cares what I buy, but I got many strange looks yesterday. Damn liberals. It's a free country. I can eat whatever I want.
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