Friday, April 03, 2009

Free Love and the Intimacy of Beer

We're still talking about the shocking emergence of subjects in a heretofore objective cosmos (i.e., prior to 3.85 billion years ago, when Life staggered into the manifestivus and really livened things up).

Balthasar says that "subjectivity is intimacy." And what is intimacy? I mean, besides subjectivity? Let's see: L intimus innermost. OL interus inward.

Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but the source of this subjectivity and intimacy can only be in God; you could say that subjectivity arises from the Father, intimacy from the relation between Father and Son. And as Balthasar spells out in volume three of the Theo-logic, the Spirit is both the subjective witness to this intimacy and its objective fruit. Which is why "there is no truth outside the truth of the love between Father and Son."

I will do my best to explain. Or, better yet, just try to stay out of the way.

If man were not thoroughly intersubjective (as is the Trinity), he would starve or asphyxiate in the prison of his own being. Indeed, love is our only "escape hatch," both horizontally and vertically. It is the "way out" of ourselves (and therefore, the way in).

Oops. I'm having a flashback. I remember the first time that Satan's Balm ever crossed my lips in a sufficient quantity to alter my consciousness. Not for nothing is liquor referred to as spirits. In this case it was only beer, but the feeling was of such... liberation. Liberation from what?

Why, from Bob, of course. Mind parasites too, but mainly just me. And then, once liberated from myself, I was "free," at least as long as the illusion lasted. But then, for a number of years, I had difficulty reconciling these two Bobs. Frankly, I didn't have much use for Sober Bob. And in a way, he did eventually die off.

Fortunately, I realized early on that beer -- as wonderful as it is -- was no kind of permanent solution to the problem of Bob and of liberation. And yet, I never forgot the lesson -- that what we call "reality" is very much a state of mind, and that "liberation" is always just a few biochemical microns away.

You could say that my goal was to become "intoxicated" all of the time, but without the intoxicants. And in fact, if any of you have noticed a slightly "drunken" or "careening" quality to these posts, I believe we can trace it back to that first liberating libation. Of course, Jesus makes many references to intoxicating fluids: water, wine, blood, and ultimately spirit, which is obviously quite "fluidic," right? Right.

I don't want to make too much of this, but it is also true that alcohol weakens that annoying membrane between self and world. This is too obvious to even warrant comment. But the point is, the weakening of the membrane enhances the quality of intimacy with the world. Intimacy allows the world in, while simultaneously allowing us out of our neurocage.

Now, one cannot be intimate if one cannot be oneself. In fact, the two are more or less synonymous: intimacy is being oneself in the presence of another who is also being him- or herself. You could say that it is "inner contact," or "touch" between what is most inward in two subjects. Again, I think what really distinguishes the Christian God is that it is always in this state of exquisite intimacy, which must require "one becoming two" and "two becoming one" in Spirit.

(A brief aside: in my book, I may have implied that the idea of an intersubjective God resulted from the unique trimorphic structure of the human family, rather than vice versa. I would just like to make it clear that this intersubjectivity could never have arisen "from the bottom up," but is a radiating "gift" from the top down. I still maintain that the helpless and neurologically incomplete infant is the hinge of cosmic evolution, but that this is the space where God initially "gets in," so to speak, for we preserve this space for the rest of our lives.)

I don't know if this is all too obvious, but in order to have true intimacy, there must be a kind of absolute separateness, or aloneness, that nevertheless has the capacity for union, or oneness.

I've mentioned before that my best teacher in graduate school made the comment that the healthy person wants to go from one to two, whereas the sick person wants to go from two to one. In other words, the healthy person first realizes his identity and his individualism, and therefore his aloneness, which he would then like to share with another, and therefore go from one to two (but which will in turn become a "higher" one).

But the sick person either never develops his identity, or else cannot tolerate his "twoness," or separation. In short, due to either separation anxiety or abandonment depression, he wishes to remain in a state of primitive merger, fusion, or "oneness" with the other -- in the way that the infant is primitively fused with the mother.

Such a relationship might look "intimate," but it is actually parasitic or symbiotic. Almost all unhealthy relationships have features of this (although it is also common for two people who are incapable of intimacy to get together and exist as a couple of wholly autonomous "objects," so to speak; they are together, but never really "together," like children who engage in "parallel play").

As always, to quote Coleridge, "two very different meanings lurk in the word, one." Again, the Christian One is very different from the Buddhist or Muslim one, for in the case of the latter two, the other simply cannot be preserved, at least intrinsically. In the case of Islam, a radical monotheism has no place for trinitarian love as its highest ideal, whereas the radical atheism of Buddhism discovers shunyata, or emptiness, at the heart of the cosmos.

I don't think it is any coincidence whatsoever that the ideal of romantic love and companionate marriage only emerged in the Christian West. If we consider the clash of civilizations between Islam and the West, much of it revolves around entirely irreconcilable attitudes toward women, sexuality, intimacy, and family. In Saudi Arabia, for example, women are not permitted to even be subjects in public. Rather, they are forced to be objects, no doubt because of intense male anxiety around sexual intimacy.

But there is an equally profound abyss between our tradition of conservative liberalism vis-a-vis the radical left on this issue. Is anyone foolish enough to believe that feminism, or the "sexual revolution," or severing the mystical link between sexuality and reproduction have actually increased intimacy? I am quite certain that these postmodern attitudes actually serve to further bury man in the body and to foreclose the space of intimacy and therefore love.

The purpose of a relationship is not to gratify the self. Rather, it is to surrender the self, to escape the oppressive prison of solitary self-sufficiency. It is none other than the kenosis, or self-emptying, that again mirrors the relation between Father and Son, and Son and world. In self-surrendering love, we are truly the image and likeness of the Divine.

I remember back in my moonbat daze, a typical thought might have been something along the lines of, "What can a celibate old priest, of all people, know about love, marriage, and sexuality?" But I have never before encountered anyone who has a more profound and subtle understanding of the microdynamics of love than Balthasar. In fact, it makes whatever I learned of love in my graduate studies in psychology appear rather pathetic in comparison. (Bion excepted, of course. Most of his books acknowledge my debt to my wife without whose support I could not attempt to write at all. You see? Love is the source, the prerequisite, and the end of real truth.)

Just this morning, I woke up with the following thought in my head: how disappointing -- even devastating -- it would be to discover that all of this writing I've been doing over the past four years came only from "me."

As I've mentioned before, it is sometimes difficult to know whether this is humility or grandiosity, but I don't think for one minute that this comes from "me." Rather, it is the objective fruit of a kind of subjective intimacy. Again, in the Trinity, the Spirit is both the "subjective intimacy" between Father and Son and the overflowing "objective fruit" of their intimacy.

So in order to have proximity, there must first be distance; without separation, there can be no union; without self-emptying, there can never be self-filling.

Evidently -- or so we have heard from the wise -- God is in a perpetual state of self-emptying, so that his "weakness" is ultimately his strength, something which the non-Christian cannot grasp. And we haven't even spoken yet of how this is all linked to freedom, for nowhere are we more free than when we abandon the self and reveal the truth of our being to the receptive Other.

[T]he spirit is veiled from itself in order that it might seek and find itself, not in itself, but in the infinite spirit that created it.... Receptivity is thus like a deep, unclosable breach opened up in the closed circle of being-for-itself. Only by welcoming things from the outside and remaining open to them, only by being given over to the service of what is other than itself, can man's spirit lay claim to a being of its own. --Balthasar, Theo-Logic: The Truth of the World

More puppy love:


Anonymous said...

Your comment about old celibate priests knowing anything about intimate sexual matters reminds me of JPII's Theology of the Body.


julie said...

Well, Bob, I'm pretty sure this isn't just coming from you because once again you've managed to tap into my freak(w)insee.

But the point is, the weakening of the membrane enhances the quality of intimacy with the world. Intimacy allows the world in, while simultaneously allowing us out of our neurocage.

My tolerance for being around most people lately seems to have dropped to an all-time low (hence my commenting here instead of going painting this morning, for instance), and last night I was thinking that it's because I'm too open. Or in your terms, the membrane has weakened. So brushing up against most people, with whom I don't experience the underlying intersubjectivity, is like trying to soothe exposed nerves with sandpaper. Especially when they're just nice, decent, friendly folks who want to chat and be social. I suppose that's sort of an exaggeration, and it doesn't feel like an adequate metaphor, but I just don't know how else to explain it. But I really understand the appeal of isolating oneself in a cloister now. (Not that I think that's what I need to do, I just get how that could be deeply fulfilling.)

So in order to have proximity, there must first be distance; without separation, there can be no union; without self-emptying, there can never be self-filling.

Ah, so.

Anonymous said...

Holymoly wv sez my Pl. name:) which means? Well, since we are still on theme of "subjectivity is intimacy", I shall jump in with response to what Pat said on "celibacy". . . The Beguines mystics of Medieval Europe such as Hadevijch of Brabant describes what it is like exactly. Heres' a bit of quote penned by Elizabeth A. Petroff quoting Hadewijch:

Love so dwells in all the beloved that neither can perceive difference between them. But they possess one another in mutual possession, their mouths one mouth, their hearts one heart, their body one body, their soul one soul, and sometimes one sweet divine nature transfuses them both, and they are one, each wholly in one another, and yet each remains and will always remain himself.

(She is saying this kind of erotic sexuality is oooooh soooo VERY REAL. But it is nothing like anyone might ever in the million years could ever imagine.)

And, this: "Hadewijch speaks of the two lovers merging, becoming indistinguishable. Since one of the lovers is God, such merging implies that desire is Godlike, that God's desire is human. It is the mutuality of desire, in fact, that creates the two lovers equal."


Once upon I had wished for a lover to accept my all . . . Warts and all.
Then one night I had a "Beloved" encounter in "Nov. 12/93'" - I opened the front door and there he was "My heart just melted and I said "I didn't know when you're be home or how!" We locked arms. Bliss!!!!"

Thus it all began....Husband and I separated in 03', divorced in 05'. He needed someone who could make him happy, so I told him to find someone else. We were "joined at the hip" as the saying goes, but I could no longer be the kind of wife that he needed.
His partner is same age lady. I know her and she's waay good for him.


Van said...

"If man were not thoroughly intersubjective (as is the Trinity), he would starve or asphyxiate in the prison of his own being. Indeed, love is our only "escape hatch," both horizontally and vertically. It is the "way out" of ourselves (and therefore, the way in)."

Many bells, all going, going, Gonggggg....

I was thinking cosmic book, but, whatever....

Van said...

Julie said "So brushing up against most people, with whom I don't experience the underlying intersubjectivity, is like trying to soothe exposed nerves with sandpaper."

Nails it for me....

Anonymous said...

I found this post extremely useful in making sense of the relationship between my mate and I.

We have profound problems, however there is a sense of mutual service to the other that keeps us thriving.

I (and others) thought I should have had my head examined for my choice of mate; however, I stuck by her because I cared more somehow about how she was doing than about potential damages to myself. It was an alien feeling I'd never had before and quite creepy.

Each morning I expect to wake up and find it gone but so far so good.

Anonymous said...

Soo cute puppyluv:) I once had two cats who groomed each other and slept all twist-comfy around each other - not' but endless love-fast:)

Julie, I can relate all to well to what your'e saying. Being the weirdo that I am, there came a time I hungered for . . . so much more!
And, since I'm the "hands-on" kinda grrl, I had to make it 'real'.
Once gathered all the cadles I could . Half burnt, all sizes, colors - didn't matter at all, because I was on a MISSION.

I aranged them all in a circle - then lit them. . . Their light represented all the saints and all the angelic host I could recall and invoked their presence. Sitting with 'Them' in the circle pleading for their teaching and guidance. I'm talking here uber-kind of "pleading" with all my willpower. Eyes closed . . . . Then seeing, actually w/inner-vision seeing 'moving' light-images and felt I made a 'connection'.


Sal said...

Alas, Julie, even in a cloister there will be other nuns...

Can't talk, having become the backyard hermit. I think there is a hunkering-down, paring of non-essentials to ride out the present storm going on in many places.
Not an entire disconnect- I pray a lot for everyone while working- just a different way of engaging. But the only people I really want to hang out with is my own immediate family. And Coons.

This will only be allowed for a while, I imagine, but it's a welcome break...

A little housekeeping- Bob, does the Amazon link still pay you?

Sal said...

ooops- "are" my immediate family.

Gagdad Bob said...


Thank you for asking. Yes. Any amazon purchases made through here help to keep the cosmos expounding.

Anonymous said...

Aony 10:01, you sound just like my best friend, my best ex-husband in the world! Completly and utterly devoted to me and kids. In every shape and form "devoted". Suporting me for many years of my oft. 'very intense' times. How intense? what do I mean by "intense"? - he told me I should have married Jesus, but still hung on... Paying for my workshops and books. You name it he was there for me.
And then his dad and sister died. My father and mom died within 3 years or so period. Talk about "stress". And then finacial stress on top of it all. He wanted me to get a normal job, not to heal people for small donations. We both frigin' cried when he said if I had a job we would still be married.

Takes all kinds, no?


julie said...

Sal - yes, exactly!

Also, I'm glad you liked the movie :)

julie said...

Liquored Up and Lacquered Down?


How do you find this stuff?

Also, I'm surprised there's no Thorogood on there :D

Gagdad Bob said...

They're a great group -- like Iowahawk set to music.

Gagdad Bob said...

Similar vibe: Big Sandy & His Fly-Rite Boys.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"But the only people I really want to hang out with is my own immediate family. And Coons."

Precisely, Julie n' Sal how it is for me!
I'm blessed enough to do so...and cursed, in a sense, because any family I have beyond my wife n' kids n' granddaughter is toxic with a capital poison.

So it's sad, but it works and I'm quite over it. It does have it's benefits. :^)

IOW's I don't waste anymore time with those that seek to do my wife or I harm.

You raccoons are closer to me than anyone other than my wife n' kids (and granddaughter). I don't take that lightly, and for that I say...THANKS!

I love you guys. Man, I really gotta lay off the grog so early (or late, dependin' on how you look at it).

Gagdad Bob said...

Here is some intelligent and rootsy music by a superb songstress who never got her due, Marti Jones. Can't go wrong for $1.99.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

BTW, good news! By May, we will have bonafide BROADBAND! Without any restrictions (unlike the fascist Obamaesk Wildblue)!

And for less than I'm payin' for dial-up! That means I can see n' hear all the slackiest vids youse guys post!

I for one welcome our new broadband overlords. Free markets. Gotta love 'em! Okay, I better stop before I wear out the exclamation point!!111!! :^)

Anonymous said...

wv sez tracha, which means "No fair! I'm the only storyteller here:("

So, seeing how the other day Bob mentioned "taking shoes off", I will indulge today sharing my first attempt at poetry-writing.

Apparently I didn't have shoes when I was lil', so I had to make my own. (We lived in a village till I was 5)
'Tis true. Mom watched me from window gallop in my home made shoes "blond hair flying, not a care in the world".

Once upon expressed in this Aug/88 Lil' Girl verse:


I love that little girl who chased butterfiles in the meadow
this little girl, as frightened as she was,
crossed frisky stream none-the-less
by walking across a fallen log.
she made her own walking shoes by
cutting off tops from red rubber boots,
so she could run on freshly ploughed field right afterwards!
I love that little girl who at four got impatient learning
Gran's prayers
proclaiming "I will dance for God!"
daring to climb the tallest trees
so she could sing sweetly
just like the birds . . .

She is all grown up now with four
children of her own . . .
She still seeks mystery of life,
Still dances to the rythm of her heart . . .
Oh, and yes!
That little girl will always be
Because she's me:)


julie said...

Can't go wrong for $1.99.

Oh, sure - it's $1.99 if you buy it from someone named Homer, but if you want instant gratification, it'll cost ya...

julie said...

Also, I take back the Thorogood comment - obviously, woulda been much to gritty. Ouch.

Anonymous said...

wops, not so fast Theo, for recall? - the other day you were reading Ben's all ham-ed up story?

Ahoy! captn' Ben!


And Now, For Something Completely Different said...

Around the world in 80 telescopes: 100 Hours of Astronomy

Northern Bandit said...

Congrats on the turbo intertube hookup, Ben!

Now you can watch The World's Greatest Orator™ in living technicolor!

Northern Bandit said...

Yesterday Bob made a remark in his post to the effect that a man and woman must come to mutually love a third, but not necessarily a baby.

I wonder if someone could expand upon this and explain what this "third" might be, if not a baby...God himself, perhaps?

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Thanks, Northern Bandit!

Even the boonies are goin' broadband. :^)

Hey, are you outta Turkey yet?

Van said...

NB said “I wonder if someone could expand upon this and explain what this "third" might be, if not a baby...God himself, perhaps?”

Being the humble bumble that I am, I’ll take a stab at it, or at least one take on it. As a relationship develops, the relationship becomes a thing in itself, something that has shape, form and value between you and which you both care for and develop; it exists even outside of your physical contact or even your being together… think of phrases like “I like myself more, when I’m around you”, or “You make me want to be the person you see me as being”… that new third is the space where your mutual highest opinions of each other develop from there and into the best of both of you. The sum becomes greater than the parts.

Got to be careful though, there isn’t a “Virtues Only” bouncer at the door, and if you let the rif raff in, they’ll take over the joint.

(Good rule of thumb: No unlight beer)

Cousin Dupree said...


Think of the Clintons. In spite of it all, what keeps their relationship together is a mutual passion for public service and hot young ladies.

Get a Job said...


Why didn't you just get a normal job?

You would have made an excellent attorney. Logic, reason and hysteria seem to be your strong suits.

Anonymous said...

Bandit, here goes another version-take to your question as Kahlil Gibran expressed in The Prophet:

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archers
's hand bo for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.


Anonymous said...

Get a job asks, why I didn't get a job?

I had a job. Still do, only the last several years it is all the more demanding. But you wouldn't understand now, wouldya? what it's like to be plugged into the Source 24/7. At times it feel like I'm walking on air. . . (just one aspcet among my other 'DUTY' work)

And if everything goes as I suspect it will, I will have to live in a place with no room for family table. One thing I cherish most of all is to have my family over for dinner. (since God spirit doesn't issue paychecks)
Got that?


Anonymous said...

Julie? Ben?
Are you ignoring me?


jp said...

NB said “I wonder if someone could expand upon this and explain what this "third" might be, if not a baby...God himself, perhaps?”

Some sort of creative purpose, a project, a sub-creation so to speak.

On the other hand, you can easily get a lower third out of the mix.

For example, you can be jointly united in your quest to be drug addled on a regular and continuous basis. Having spoken with people in this exciting situation, I can assure you that it ends badly.

You can also be jointly united in dreaming of spending all of your free time in Vegas at the craps table. Sadly, I have never encounterd this in my life. I have to live vicariously through Van's stories about the good old days.

On the other hand, you can be jointly united in some kind of Television Reality show third such as the Duggars and the full quiver project by which you endeavor to show the world how a household with 18 children really works.

jp said...

Theofilia says:

"I had a job. Still do, only the last several years it is all the more demanding. But you wouldn't understand now, wouldya? what it's like to be plugged into the Source 24/7."

Please tell us more about this job of which you speak. What's a normal day like for you on the job?

wv: ulless

U.S. Grant got the nickame
"useless" at one point in his life. I wonder if "ulless" would have been a better fit for him.

Mizz E said...

NB said “I wonder if someone could expand upon this and explain what this "third" might be, if not a baby...God himself, perhaps?”

Rally round the flag boys
and girls.

Get a Job said...

For the record, Theo, I don't believe for one minute that you are "plugged into the Source 24/7."

I think you are a lunatic. There is nothing in the content or tone of your writing to suggest otherwise.

I call bullshit. And I'm sick of reading your annoying comments.

Anonymous said...

JP, if I disclosed EXACTLY what it's this "DUTY" ,it would sound like science fiction gibberish.


Van said...

JP, I think wv was hinting at the new motto of the USA: ulless, wemore

well... now it's going back on itself,
Seems kinda rude, but true, only dips sympathise with that motto

Van said...

theofilla said "it would sound like science fiction gibberish."

Wow. That would be shocking.

jp said...

Theofilia says:

"JP, if I disclosed EXACTLY what it's this "DUTY" ,it would sound like science fiction gibberish."

How about just a snapshot of an average workday? You don't have to disclose the duty, just an account of your normal activities of daily living.

Anonymous said...

Get a job,

I actually have a "lawyer" story for you. Yep, the bitterone's called me a "lawyer" at work, because I spoke out in defence of one woman. She, in Europe raised gentle lady, a single mother of 2 was a Jehowa's Witness person. Knowing her pretty well she never once preached to me about conversion. She was in fact not at very the verbally outgoing type.

But the popular - one's? (women) oooh that's another story altogether.

The 'gentle woman' approached me one day - when alone. . . Shaking like a leaf she told me how the women were treating her . Translation? "Ignoring, and laughing behind her back."

Danica kept repeating, I'm afraid of them". . . trembling and crying.

I resolved to speak to the leader of the pack and told her exactly what D. told me. How she felt - her shaking and crying.

Eyes saucer wide "I don't know what she's could mean by that?"

Needless to say, to my surprise D. never looked so upset again:)


NoMo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
the author said...


Dan Hicks said...

Theofilia - "How can I miss you when you won't go away?"

wiki said...

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, IRRELEVANT or off-topic messages in an online community..."

Jes say'n

Anonymous said...


Since you insist I can repeat again this much. . . because my crown chakra is plugged into God, my body has no choice but to pull in the 'vomit' of the world for 'purification' purposes.

Makes a lot of sense, ha? The worst is when a lot of people parish at once. Stock market crash? Incredible jitters! I wrote about this.
Hell, I hear cries sometimes. Rage - angry guy (mostly) voices? ohyah.

My body system feels the energy of their rage and terror flowing into me...My best defence is to get to the point of 'beyond bliss'. Beyond even where the most alluring 'sparklies' dwell in Consciousness - which, in actuality that is exactly the 'jumping off' point, where I know that I'm on a treashhold of entering 'Pure Nada Land.'

Not like I have a choice in the matter. The Holy Spirit plugged me 'in.'

As I sit here rightnow, I hear and feel my chakras spining and energy cursing through me. I hear the space around me buzing with energy.

At night when I streach out is when the real action starts. Sleepless nights anyone? Because your body is so 'ON' it's impossible to sleep?

So much more . . .

Read Hadewijch of Brabant All Things . . this will give you further clue that it IS possible to be 'there.' I actually don't have clue if her body system ever worked on pulling the "vomit of the world" into herself, but she well expresses the Nirvana thang.

All things
Are too small
to hold me,
I am so vast

In the infinite
I reach for the Uncreated
I have touched it,
it undoes me
wider than wide

Everything else is too narrow

You know this well
You who are also there.


Van said...

In the parish coursing beams fill ya,
cursing, thee perish

Wildest theeoray? theofilla is Ray, still trying to find the point

Anonymous said...

Hey! anony "Theofilia" 1:51 - git yer own nick, eh?

That was not the me-person who posted that, but who cares since we are 'contained' within each other anyway?

humbug or wotever-pppft! git yer own nick, I don't demand attention:)


Anonymous said...

Van 2:18 - heh, do I sound weird? hmmm, relatively speaking?

showing off yer funny bone I see:(


bob f. said...

Julie's comment,"My tolerance for being around most people lately seems to have dropped to an all-time low...", speaks to me.
I am on the phone with people all day discussing their legal problems; been doing this for six years; by the end of the day I am ready for a monk's cell (or monk's cigar club).
I can't do this work at arm's length; I put a lot into it emotionally and I get to see a lot of human pain.
On the other hand, during this same time period I have rediscovered Christianity, which looms larger in my awareness and seems to be in the process of becoming the focus of my life.
Now this site, Bob's words and you all have all had a role in this. And there are lots of other happenstances, such as my wife taking a job as a church musician several years back and my decision to sing in her choir.
Last week my younger son spent his Spring break with me. We can be together very comfortably and don't need to be chattering or "doing." I have been somewhat troubled over how I can speak to him about my "conversion." I did tell him that I have been praying to Blessed Mary to see if she can arrange for my sons to get to know her Son.
I'm not sure these comments have any point; if anyone sees one, let me know.

Anonymous said...

Van thinks I don't know where / what / who, the "point" is? hehe.

On topic with Bob's writings this day on "subjectivity is intimacy,"
here's something which may indicated otherwise?

Paths and Grounds of Guhyasamaja Tantra - I think Nagarjuna's teaching? Somt. I copied from gab - forum back in the day:

The state of union od Cyclic Existence (Samsara) and Cessation (Nirvana). The state of union of the afflicted class of phenomena and the liberated class of phenomena.

- The state od union of perceptions of objects with and without aspects.

-The state of union of subjective perception and objective phenomena.

-The state of union devoid of Eternalism and Nihilism.

-The state of union of Emptiness and Compassion.

-The state of union of Method and Wisdom.

-The union of those with and those without remainder.

-The union of the two selflessnesses.

-The union of an illusory Body and Clear Light.

-The union of Through and Gradual Dissolutions.

-The union of the Two Truths.

-The union of enetring and emerging from a meditative Equipoise (Shamata).

-The union of sleep and wakefulness.

-The union of Meditative Equipoise and the post meditational period.

-The union of mindfullness and forgetfullness.

-The union of Bliss and Emptiness.

-The union of Objects and Action.

-The union of the Generation stage and Completion stage.

-The union of Purity and Impurity.

-The The union of those with and without forms.


Van said...

Though the copy pastes, the question Nags....

Anonymous said...


julie said...

Bob F., as the wife of one who also deals with legal problems (and has described his occupation the past few weeks as bearing a strong resemblance to the 9th circle of hell), you have my deepest sympathies. Dealing with the law is a very emotionally difficult occupation for good people.

As for talking with your son, I wish there was some advice I could give besides "pray for guidance." I think there's a Bible passage along the lines of speaking and trusting in God to bring forth the right words, but I've no idea which one that is. Nomo?

walt said...

Van 4:49 -

Good catch!

jp said...

Van says:

"theofilla is Ray, still trying to find the point"

Only if Ray has decided to experiment with certain phamaceutical compounds.

I still didn't get an actual answer to my activities of daily living question.

And it appears we have a problem with multiple Theofilias.

ximeze said...

Remember the door to door campaign to show support for Obama's budget?


wv for Dear Leader: luvlysax

Ricky Raccoon said...

“I think you are a lunatic. There is nothing in the content or tone of your writing to suggest otherwise. I call bullshit.”

There is a God.

Ricky Raccoon said...

“Though the copy pastes, the question Nags....”

However, he would appear to have kicked his linky-dink addiction.

So I’m going to vote Non-Ray.

jp said...

So Julie, any particular reason that your husband is describing his occupation the past few weeks as bearing a strong resemblance to the 9th circle of hell?

Since I'm an attorney, I'm always ready to hear stories about the grandeur and ongoing excitement that is the world of modern legal process.

And with respect to bob.f., I can certainly understand why speaking to people about their legal problems all day causes you to want to run off to a monk's cell.

I practice disability law, so mostly I just need client's medical records and reports from doctors to prove that they are near death or in chronic debilitating pain. Most of my client meetings tend to revolve around "tell me how much you hurt."

Ricky Raccoon said...


“This effort was designed to give our supporters the tools to influence their elected officials.”

…who then promptly threw them in the trash.

Please. This is called busy work. And they spelled groupies wrong.

Ricky Raccoon said...

Mr. Paine was just saying,
“…nothing flatters vanity… in Kings more than repeated petitioning…”

julie said...

JP, without getting into specifics DH's practice is of a corporate nature. His job is occasionally a variation of "tell me how much you hurt," only with businesses and millions or billions of dollars (not ours, alas) at stake. He starts with your phrase, then moves (analogously speaking) on to: "Quit poking that, you're only going to make it worse. No, don't take the bandages off until the doctor says you can. Why didn't you tell me you got this injury in a separate incident? Didn't you say that was broken? Why are you walking around without crutches? You're only injuring it more! I told you not to scratch that rash. Why did you go and rub it with sandpaper, then pour vinegar on it?"

At least, that's what I glean from his fevered moanings when he finally drags himself through the door at the end of the day. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but right now he's very good at putting out fires, to mix my metaphors, and so that's what he's been doing a lot of. The good news is, there's no shortage of work; the bad news is, there's no shortage of work.

Dr. Freud said...


How are your kids doing? Were they able to survive you? A little touched in the head?
Enquiring minds want to know.

Anonymous said...

jp 5:32

You said, that you "still didn't get an actual answer to my activities of daily living question."

By all means, feel free to give us an actual hour by hour acount of your daily living activities.

But that would be called "irrelavant trolling", no?

As for "multiple Theofilia's" "problem" assertion. I don't have a "problem" whatsoever with anyone posing as me 'cos I jes' call'em as I see'em.


Anonymous said...

Dr. Freud

I'm absolutely certain my kids are touched in the head in a good way - are you?


NoMo said...

Bob F - Not being a Catholic myself, I don't know how Mary would fit in, but I do know that there is one Mediator on Whom we can depend to hear and deliver. Not only that, we have an intercessor when we feel like we don't even know how to pray (which for me is most of the time). As a father of 3 sons myself, well...'nuf sed.

God bless.

Anonymous said...

Dr. Freud,

Would you like to share your fainting episodes? What was that about? . . Was it because of one cartain Carl Yung feller?

OK I had to have a self-indulgent laugh :):):):)


Anonymous said...

OK stopped lufin', but I didn't make the "fainting" part up. Jung wrote about that in his bio-book whatever its name-title was.


ximeze said...


Money line for me:
"The DNC arrived at its 642,000 figure by making three photocopies of each petition"

Can they ever, ever, ever conduct themselves honestly?

Ricky Raccoon said...


Actually, I found the language creepy,

“The DNC sent 200 volunteers...”


“Party workers…”

Van said...

aNags said "I AM"


Do I get a whistle? Decoder ring?

JP said "Only if Ray has decided to experiment with certain phamaceutical compounds."

Hey, narrowed the field anyway (... still, not really buying the rainbow routine anyway...).

Ricky Raccoon said...

All this talk about separation, union, proximity, distance, intimacy, healthy and sick social intercourse (who said that?)

Thomas Paine:

“Youth is the seed-time of good habits as well in nations as in individuals. It might be difficult, if not impossible, to form the Continent into one government half a century hence. The vast variety of interests, occasioned by an increase of trade and population, would create confusion . Colony would be against colony. Each being able would scorn each other's assistance; and while the proud and foolish gloried in their little distinctions the wise would lament that the union had not been formed before. Wherefore the present time is the true time for establishing it. The intimacy which is contracted in infancy, and the friendship which is formed in misfortune, are of all others the most lasting and unalterable. Our present union is marked with both these characters; we are young, and we have been distressed; but our concord hath withstood our troubles, and fixes a memorable era for posterity to glory in.”

Ricky Raccoon said...

What did you think about the shoe-throwing at President Bush?

Van said...

Ricky said "Theofilia,
What did you think about the shoe-throwing at President Bush?"

umm... Podiafilia?

ximeze said...

"(... still, not really buying the rainbow routine anyway...)"

You're actually reading them?

Vandude, you know we've discussed this glutton for punishment thingie before.

Van said...

Ximeze said "You're actually reading them?"

Nyah, don't read em', someone reminded me of that early on, it's just the page wash from scrolling on by.

get a job said...


I was very rude to you earlier today and I feel bad about that. I'm sorry.

Perhaps you are the real deal, connected to the Source 24/7, healer and all that.

I should have reserved my judgement, not having even met you.

You writing IS somewhat rambling and eccentric but that alone doesn't mean youre a fraud.

I apologize again for earlier. There was no reason to dig into you like that.

Dr Freud said...


Hmmm, my questions elicit 3 posts from the patient. Interesting.
I sense a disturbance hidden beneath the ego induced veil.
Will have to pursue this line in the next session.

Anonymous said...

Ricky, what do I think about the shoe throwing at President Bush deal?
Allah servant expressing his loyality to Allah, no?

In the same vein as burning his efigy or the American flag, no?

One way to fight your way to Heaven ... Recal? all them heavenly virgins are all n'waiting to receive'em.


Anonymous said...

Dr. Freud, you are sooo yesterday:)


Anonymous said...

get a job,

No problem, no ofence taken. There are plenty of flakes claiming God realization. One must be VERY careful these days not to bow to the god's of Claiment.

Besides, why should I care it I don't sound like the "real deal".
I claim no such thing. If God-spirit can't make You see Him, then I most certainly can't.


Sal said...

Bob F.
Patron saint of meet-ups, yours or someone else's? St. Raphael.
God bless.

Ricky Raccoon said...

All those question marks…sounds like you don’t know what you think, no?
It sounds like you are trying to tell me what you think I’d like to hear, no?

Anonymous said...

Ricky, my "no?" question is strictly my thang - my way of speak. Something us Europeans do quite a bit. For in fact, that kind of "no" actually means "yes". Confusing, I know but we like to be different:)


Anonymous said...

Dear Dr. Freud,

With all due respect I do declare, that you are the Father of Western Psycholgy and the world should forever be grateful for your work.

Thank You!


Dr. Freud said...

Yes......, I've penetrated the ego image and struck on a core truth, things are beginning to bubble to the surface.
Good cop bad cop tactic is being employed to throw me off the trail.
We're beginning to see some progress.
Need to raise my fee on this one.

Anonymous said...

Dr. Freud,

Pardon me for being way rude by trying change the topic, but do you recal havin' a certain lady patient making a googoo eyes at you?

Hard to resist a pretty lady, eh? Did she have to pay too;)

I never found out when I was reading one of your book - tomes how it all ended, bec. I never finished reading it alas.

Changing gears for .....

GUESS WOT the wv sez in green - I swear 'tis true! = "silli"

That'll be me:) Theofilia

Dr Freud said...

Good afternoon Theo,

Now, where were we when we last met? Oh yes, your relations with your children..........please continue.

Anonymous said...

Dr. Freud,

I don't get it - you wrote that sons want to devour their mother. Mine certainly didn't give me any indication of this. When little at bedtime hug, both would often say "You smell". Godnite smooch? forget it.

Wotever. But I got curious one day and asked "What do I smell like?"
to wchich he responded "Sweet".

One of their favorite games was "Let's play the kissing game!"

Of course they made up the rules. I was to chase them on all fours and when caught I could tickle and mole them to pieces. Guess who won almost always? When they, not only galloped by me on their feet, the couch was their "refuge point". A sacred place mom was not alowed to cross.

They got so much attention from both, moi and their father, that I didn't see any display of wanting to devour anybody.

Besides, I was not in any shape or form (Yung's archetype term) the "Devouring Mother" type either. I had a 'life' and didn't need them to validate me as a woman. Or use them for my unconscious, unmet needs and desires.

Daughters want to devour their father?
Again, exactly same deal. The only 'comon to daddy was my 3/4ish year old daughter say -- to her most handsome dad -- "you look pretty daddy can I marry you?", when she saw him all decked out, ready to go out.

All my kids are in very secure long term relationships. Weird, ha?


Dr Freud said...

Yes...............yes, please continue.