Tuesday, August 12, 2008

Croaking Hoaxters Don't You Think the Joker Laughs at You?

What is intelligibly diverse must be unified and whole, and only what is whole and unified can be intelligibly diverse. At the same time, only what is diversified can be intelligibly one. This is because change requires continuity if it is to be change of anything at all, and the parts of what is continuous must be distinguishable or else it congeals to a dimensionless point (or instant).... Although a whole is a single unity, it is at the same time a unified diversity. The reality of time, therefore, establishes concurrently the reality of a whole which is nontemporal. --Errol Harris, The Reality of Time

I will cooncede at the outset that this rambling post did not come together into a unified diversity in the manner one might have hoped. Why? Because there simply wasn't enough time to compensate for all of the distractions, in order for the One to perform its unifying magic over the many. Therefore, I will leave it to you to make sense of it, or to decide whether it is intelligibly diverse or just an unintelligible blobservation.

Atheistic types like to accuse religious folks of being naively uncritical about scripture, and no doubt many are. But the same can be said for radical secularists who adopt a naive and credulous stance toward the natural sciences, as if they require no metaphysical foundation, and simply "speak for themselves." But there is no meaningful scientific observation that isn't theory-laden, and as soon as one examines the implicit theories with which science is laden, one is led back into the realm of pure metaphysics. And once that happens, you soon discover that the naive religionists are not so naive after all.

As Errol Harris writes, "all the stock arguments against metaphysics, from Kant to Wittgenstein, have long been exposed as self-refuting, so that far from being impossible, metaphysics is indispensable and unavoidable, always inescapably presupposed in whatever philosophical position is adopted -- even one that repudiates it."

Now, metaphysics aims at the comprehension of the cosmos in its totality, both in its vertical and horizontal aspects. Any scientistic metaphysic which aims only at an explanation of the horizontal world eliminates in one stroke the very realm where metaphysical truth abides. This is the principial realm of which the horizontal is merely a derivative "prolongation," which is why it is said, for example, that the Torah is prior to the world, or why Jesus could say that "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Likewise, "In the beginning was the word, and you know the drill, so I won't repeat it here."

Of metaphysical certitude, Schuon writes that it results from the "coincidence between truth and our being; a coincidence that no raytiocination could invalidate. Contingent things are proven by factors situated within their order of contingency, whereas things deriving from the Absolute become clear by their participation in the Absolute, hence by a 'superabundance of light'... which amounts to saying that they are proven by themselves. In other words, universal truths draw their evidence not from our contingent thought, but from our transpersonal being, which constitutes the substance of our spirit and guarantees the adequacy of intellection."

I suppose there is one way to avoid metaphysics, and that is to be genuinely psychotic, and to truly live in a world without a priori meaning, sense, and coherence (although even there, people like Matte Blanco and Bion have provided theoretical keys that allow us to appreciate the order beneath psychotic disorder). I am told that the Joker in the new Batman film is such a person. Of him, commenter Dusty writes that he is

"a perfect personification of transcendent evil. That is, the act of rejecting transcendence a priori at the same time downwardly transforms that person into an inverted reflection of the saving grace from above. True transcendent evil is a faceless force until given temporary one by an earthly personality. Notice that the joker in Dark Knight is in truth a faceless terror all throughout. He really has no personal history: no name; his clothes are self-made; the past that he does reveal turns out to be contradiction and lies; and even the face that we do see is painted in the style of the Jungian archetype of the mad clown. There's nothing there but a trail of violence and disaster. Whence did he come? Where did he go?"

You see? A diversified chaos, with no wholeness or unity. You might say that he is deconstruction personified, or the archetype of Tenured Man:

"He is chaos personified, and the only connection that he does have with grace is a masochistic-like dependency on the archetypal hero who opposes his will. Even the darkest of nights, night within night, evil for the sake of evil, must necessarily maintain contact with the light, or else there would exist an absolute hell, which is strictly impossible unless God chose to suffer it himself. But if God is Good, he would choose eternal delight, and not an eternal dark night."

Those two paragraphs are loaded with insights that need to be unpacked. For example, gnotice how our scientistic jester is indeed dependent upon us, not vice versa. We do not seek him out, and do our best to ignore his irrelevance. But he "must necessarily maintain contact with the light," hence his desire to associate with us rather than with his own kind, which would indeed be a kind of cold and dry hell. Just imagine those scintillating conversations between blind atheists sharing stories of what they cannot see!

Let's discuss the idea of "a perfect personification of transcendent evil." Now evil cannot actually be transcendent. Rather, it can only mimic and mock transcendence by "escaping" the obligations of our humanness from below. I'm just free associating here, but this is one of the things that creeped me out about the opening ceremony of the Olympics a few nights ago. I only caught the first 20 minutes or so before turning if off. Yes, I could see that there was a kind of bombastic majesty taking place, but toward what end? Toward man as ant, or the elimination of man as such. It was like a leftist mass, I suppose.

2008 drummers playing in lockstep? Give me one immortal jazz drummer. Give me Philly Joe Jones, Art Blakey, Tony Williams, or Jack DeJohnette, all playing around with the beat, adding their own flavor, throwing in their own unpredictable syncopations, being individuals. For that is what America is all about: not the ant as ant, nor the ant in opposition to the hive, but rising above -- i.e., transcending -- it. If Art Blakey had been one of those 2008 drummers, he'd probably now be in a slave labor camp.

So man can "transcend" -- or at least get around -- the ego from above or from below. In the case of a great jazz musician, while he "stands out," it can never be in a "selfish" way, or it won't be jazz anymore. Rather, the whole point is that in real jazz, each of the parts is subordinate to an emergent "higher unity" that is being spontaneously created in the moment, in an organismic manner. For example, back in the 1930s, Louis Armstrong would often be thrown together with a bunch of musical stiffs who couldn't approach his level of virtuosity. As such, the results aren't really "jazz." It's more like when the Harlem Globetrotters defeat the Washington Generals night after night. It might be a spectacle, but it's not really sport.

I don't think it's any coincidence that jazz was invented in America, as it is our quintessential art form, combining as it does a maximum of freedom (which is to say, individuality) and discipline, for it requires much, much more discipline to be a great jazz musician than it does to be in a glorified marching band. Likewise, anyone with a mediocre intellect can understand science. But not everyone can understand Aquinas or Schuon or Aurobindo, or so many other true theologians.

Now, the cosmos is ordered (as we all know, cosmos is from the Greek word for order). Everywhere we look, order. There is incredible mathematical order in the equations of physics, in chemistry, in the genome, everywhere. There is also order in the human psyche and in the human spirit, two distinct categories that people have tended to conflate over the past 300 years or so. But the psyche is more or less the area addressed by psychology, while the spirit is the domain of religion (although there is admittedly much overlap, as there must be, just as there is overlap between physics and chemistry, or chemistry and biology).

Toward the end of the 19th century, at the peak of reductionistic materialism, there was an attempt to reduce the psyche to a purely material or "energic" phenomenon (and to eliminate the spirit altogether). One sees this in the early theories of Freud, which absurdly reduce the mind to a kind of pressure cooker seeking to let off the "steam" of primitive instincts and impulses; or in the behaviorists, who imagined that there was no such thing as a psyche, only behavior.

In fact, there are people who still believe this. I remember during my internship, getting into a heated debate with a fellow intern who was a behaviorist. At the time, I didn't yet realize that the discussion would be as pointless as trying to bring light to our scientistic jester. After all, how does one impart truth to someone who believes only in behavior? I suppose by physically striking him on the head with a book. Anyway, this is an example of a man who voluntarily cashed in his humanness for a kind of faux liberation, in which nothing means anything. Rather, it's all just behavior. Thus, he succeeded in escaping the pain of the human state "from below."

Isn't this what the Joker would say? He's just a behaviorist with the courage of his absence of convictions. He's just a mindless man thinking. Or, in behaviorist terms, just a dead man walking, or not even a zombie. In a way, he is death.

Existence is unavoidably tied up with language -- with the Word -- because to have existence is synonymous with having a definition, even if we cannot put it into purely logical words. For example, Just Thomism writes that

"The idea of soul arises when we notice that some bodies are alive and others are not. Our judgment of what is alive and what is not is far from infallible, but it remains that among the physical things we know, some are alive and others are not. Words like 'soul' were first imposed from primitive theories of what made a living thing alive: early words for soul simply meant 'breath'; although it is unclear if they thought that breath was really soul or if it was more the clearest sign of whatever soul was. Theories about the soul quickly became more precise. The Greeks had a vast multitude of opinions about what makes something living -- the best of which was that the soul was some kind of organization in a body which involved the mixture of various elements in the right proportion."

Thus, for someone who is alienated from their soul, it will simply be a kind of nonsense word that corresponds to nothing real, like "unicorn." This is one of the crude arguments that bonehead atheists commonly make, all the while imagining themselves to be sophisticated, courageous, or clear thinking. But the joke is on them, for

"Our modern scientists who deny the spiritual existence of the soul because they can account for human life without it are no different than a bookbinder who denies the existence of writing style or syntax because he can account for the whole book without mentioning them at all. In a sense he is right. He can completely account for the book without once invoking syntax or grammar. For that matter, the marketer, bookseller, and distributor needn't speak of syntax and grammar in order to give their own complete account of a book. Their way of analyzing a book into its relevant parts doesn't need to include this" (Just Thomism).

So our jester is correct, in that he does adequately convey the universal truths of the undead.


USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

The Joker never realizes the joke is on him.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"I suppose there is one way to avoid metaphysics, and that is to be genuinely psychotic, and to truly live in a world without a priori meaning, sense, and coherence (although even there, people like Matte Blanco and Bion have provided theoretical keys that allow us to appreciate the order beneath psychotic disorder)."

Ho! Where's Sussanah? We could use some of those ho-ho's to celebrate the holy truth of that statement!

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Susannah, I mean. Sorry, Susannah.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"...a perfect personification of transcendent evil. That is, the act of rejecting transcendence a priori at the same time downwardly transforms that person into an inverted reflection of the saving grace from above."

Well said, Dusty!

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"Just imagine those scintillating conversations between blind atheists sharing stories of what they cannot see!"

And one can find several examples of this at LGF. Particularly on the ID threads, but they spill over into every thread now.
New conspiracies are emerging which are ridiculous to any sensible person, but these Jokers need those conspiracies to validate their "purpose".

Joan of Argghh! said...

because to have existence is synonymous with having a definition,

As others have asked in the last 10 years, "What defines a man, nowadays?" With so many outer tangibles taken away from the modern man, paternal responsibilities rendered unnecessary, so many jobs relegated to the Mind... no wonder Batman resonated with so many who lack the well-defined ABS-olute gnosis of place and time within the Cosmos.

No wonder the Jokers are becoming bolder.

Zophiel said...

True jazz, as you say, demands more discipline than a marching band. Also, true jazz demands Soul, and the use thereof. It bends and stretches the established "rules" of classical music, but it does not break them. Its bending and stretching is done with respect for those rules, using them to create new sounds, whether joyful or mournful, or other. It takes soul to know how far one can bend the rule before it is broken. Jazz never breaks the rules, only plays with them a while.

Without soul, however, such rules cannot be played with, they can only be strictly observed or entirely broken-- thus, when in the early 20th century the intelligencia decided to abandon Soul, verticallity, and the Divine, they shattered music and created the abomination of 12-tone sound (not worthy of the category of music). While 12-tone can be fun to analyse for a theory nerd like me, it is painful to listen to. Because it isn't music-- it is deliberately written to avoid any semblance of order, deliberately breaks the "rules" of what makes music music, and so becomes nothing more than cacophany for the caviar crowd. It is a deliberate type of chaos, masquerading as art-- something most of ye 'coons are well aware of in other realms.

Which goes to show that if music is not transcendant, it is not music. In this, then, we might say that jazz is the purest music (being equally-- and thouroughly-- disciplined and Soul-filled), while too much of "20th Century music" is really not music at all, because all transcendence was stripped from it.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"Likewise, anyone with a mediocre intellect can understand science. But not everyone can understand Aquinas or Schuon or Aurobindo, or so many other true theologians."

I cooncur! As Just Thomism also said, they can never understand the great Mystics or anyone who believes in and follows metaphysical truth, ie Absolute Truth.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

'Toward the end of the 19th century, at the peak of reductionistic materialism, there was an attempt to reduce the psyche to a purely material or "energic" phenomenon (and to eliminate the spirit altogether).'

This reminds me of what I read at Just Thomism a few days ago, which was pretty funny, too:
"Regardless of whether you think that a a human body is nothing but so much meat and matter or whether you think we are only spirits caged in a body, it is ridiculous to ask whether the soul exists. It manifests a failure to understand what one is talking about. If you think that speaking about “the human soul” is too prejudicial toward the “spiritual” idea of man, too bad. You can’t hold a conversation hostage because of your inability to understand a term."

Joan of Argghh! said...

I'd like to investigate more about the structure or chaotic absence of it, within much music in the Eastern world. Some of it seems just a din!

I've listened to it intently, seeking out something to anchor into but it seems tossed about. I've scolded myself for being too Western in my summation.

But seriously? Much of it sounds like the chaotic noise of demons and torment.

And what's worse, you can't dance to it.

Sal said...

So man can "transcend" -- or at least get around -- the ego from above or from below. In the case of a great jazz musician, while he "stands out," it can never be in a "selfish" way, or it won't be jazz anymore. Rather, the whole point is that in real jazz, each of the parts is subordinate to an emergent "higher unity" that is being spontaneously created in the moment, in an organismic manner.

Or like the great Saints.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

I concur Joan. How can you dance with the One who brung you if you can't dance to the music? :^)

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Isn't this what the Joker would say? He's just a behaviorist with the courage of his absence of convictions."

Precisely! Jokers revel in their "courage", although it isn't really courage at all, just a psychotic counterfeit.

Zophiel said...


I completely understand where you're coming from ^_^! Part of the reason music students study Western Music is because it was the West that truly explored the inherent structure of music (starting way back with Pythagoras, at least, maybe even before) and elaborated on it. Western music is, literally, the most evolved music. For this reason, our structure is pretty clear to us, and others not so much.

However, there is some structure you can listen for. For instance, in terms of pitches (the "space" of music), wheras Western music tends to use seven (plus the octave) pitches out of an availible twelve--well, eleven plus octave-- (generally speaking. Ths would be the western notion of "scale" or "mode"), eastern music goes for other arrangements-- the easiest for Weterners is when they pick five pitches (the pentatonic scale). If you have a piano availible, noddle around on any of the black keys (an easy pentatonic scale), and it will sound like the stereotypical Chinese music. So much that you'll want to hear a gong and then expect to see Bruce Lee walk through the door.

Likewise, where Western music is structured rhythmically around a steady beat (think the heartbeat), alot of the far-far eastern music, I've noticed, is structured around the breath. It may help to recall that Chopin one said that it was the "space between the notes" that was of so much importance-- much of the music of the far east concentractes on the spaces between the notes. The silence that falle when one noted vibrates into nothing, before the next note is struck.

However, the most listenable of eastern music is, I find, the Chinese and Japanese, with some of the music of India. The more evolved the philosophy of a culture, the more listenable its music, even if the structure and form is strange to our ears. Even when the Japanese cast out the Jesuits, they kept Bach.

You're right though, some of those wind instruments they have--ai, ai, they hurt the ears! All that wailing and screeching! Worse than out of tune bagpipes! (dat's pretty bad!) I think part of it comes from trying to get the instruments to sound like human voices, but not having disciplined the human voices first. Interestingly, it is the west that disciplined the human voice, and no other civilization. Overtone singing might count, but it only gets coolness points.

Sra Scherzophrenic said...

So Bob, have you been banned from LGF, yet? I find the arguments against any form of Intelligent Design entertaining, since belief in the opposite requires a more steadfast faith than I am willing to invest in it. The hysteria of the opposers of Intelligenct Design are thus happy being miserable in their mental archetectural brutalism.

Joan of Argghh! said...

Z, yes, I get the pentatonic scale and there is some Chinese music I truly enjoy. I've heard nothing from the land of 700 million gods (India), however, to enjoin my inner ear. Middle Eastern ululations seem to make more sense than much Indian music.

Saying that, I think I'm speaking more of a demonic wailing. It's in all cultures (some of the hate-rock here) and I can only say that upon hearing it, I know the spirit, or breath, that went into it, because it communicates the same upon the listening. Like all expressions of language, the "soul" of the creator comes through.

The "communication" of the creator of music, art, literature, or faux religions is perfectly recreated upon the ears, eyes, intellect and wallet of the receiver.

Some music is just wrong. We should take care for what we ingest.

son of a preacher man said...

After I learned about 20th century "contempory music" in a music theory class back in H.S., I would on occaision walk up the piano in the class and randomly bang on the keyboard and declare I was composing contempory music. I think the instructor was more annoyed then amused.

Gagdad Bob said...

Sra Scherzophrenic--

Oh my yes, I was banned by Queeg some time ago, after some 1500 assorted quips, gags, and one-liners which, in my estimation, truly gave added value to that now wit-free herd of anti-intellectual drones.

That's gratitude for you. If only our ideological opponents could exhibit a modicum of wit or literary flair! I shall replace our current jester just as soon as one comes along.

Zophiel said...


Oh, yes, absolutely. Music is like food-- some of it is better for you than some other. The soul (or lack thereof) of the composer will always come across, and we don't always want that.

Pondering your description, I believe I know what you're talking about, though it's difficult to put into words (aside from what you've used). It's a painful sound, angry and despairing all at once, and it has nothing to do with scale, key, or melody. [Thank goodness no Maya music survived. I had to do a paper on the use of music in Classical Mayan Religion once. . . Ugh! horrid!]

Which is to say . . .^_^ We have complete agreement.

PS: Every now and then, I hear some pleasent sitar music in an Indian restauant. The simple, scaled down stuff is the best. When they start trying to get too fancy, they loose my appreciation.

Zophiel said...

Son of a Preacher Man--
*snickers* You shoulda had my theory teacher-- he would have laughed. It's like when we'd pile our lunch trash on the table and contemplate selling it as "modern art".

(I really needta get back to work . . .*whines* don't wanna. . .)

Gagdad Bob said...

I don't know if this makes me a musical cretin, but I enjoy some of the pieces Ravi Shankar performed with western classical orchestras and with certain individuals such as Yehudi Menuin.... Apparently the orchestral works are difficult to pull off, since western music is so chordally and harmonically dense, or vertical, while Indian music is so melodic, or horizontal....

Joan of Argghh! said...

Oh, I can give a nod to the Ravi Shankar and precious few others. I'm not saying it's not out there, it's just hard to uncover from all the din.

I once went for a therapeutic massage and there was some sort of mystical mood music that held an unresolved chord for 30 minutes. I told the poor therapist that it was the most unrelaxing thing I'd ever heard, and to please turn it off.!

On another note: When I used to sing in a jazz ensemble, I was the one everyone counted on to hear the Seventh. I love the Seventh Sound! But it's gotta resolve to a key triad or I just need to slap someone.

Control issues, I guess.


Zophiel said...

GD-- nah, it doesn't. [I know I'm a snob. Bit of a diva too, sometimes, though that comes with being a classically trained soprano. It's rumored that, once upon a time, my ego could have powered Al Gore's mansion. Alas, my attempts to learn humility have rather deflated it as of late.]

I've not heard Shankar recordings with the orchestras-- I suspect I'd enjoy them too, and the tension between the discipline of the orchestra and the freedom of the sitar would be quite dynamic. As well a delightful contrast in musical timbre and color. I have heard some of his other recordings, though, and too be honest. . . some of it kinda creeped me out. Too much Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom in my background, I suspect. But then, that's clearly my problem, not necessarily his.

Alls I knows it that when I go for tandori chicken and naan, I'm more likely to like the simpler things than the more complicated. I'll have to too if I can find some of those recordings you mention, though. Sounds cool. . .

Gagdad Bob said...

Also, there is an interesting jazz ensemble, Remember Shakti, which plays... I don't know what you call it -- Hindu jazz, I suppose, but John McLaughlin makes his guitar sound like a sitar....

Zophiel said...

I love the Seventh Sound! But it's gotta resolve to a key triad or I just need to slap someone.

Control issues, I guess.

LOL! or good musical sense!

And don't even get me started on "mood music" . . . *grumble**grumble**grumble*

[srsly now, I needta actually get back to work. . .]

Gagdad Bob said...

Here's one of the orchestral things Shankar did; you can hear some samples, but it sounds pretty majestic on daddy's big hifi.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Speakin' of jazz, one of the reasons I love bluegrass is because of it's similarity to jazz.
In fact, bluegrass is actually an amalgam of blues, jazz and ragtime while retaining deep roots in Irish, Scottish and English traditional music.

Good stuff, and far deeper than most folks give it credit for.

julie said...

Ah, the "space between the notes."

In just the right amounts, it conveys as much if not more meaning than the notes which contain it.

In that first Ravi Shankar sample, for instance, those three little high notes with just a hint of pause between them...

Anonymous said...

Bob wrote:

"I suppose there is one way to avoid metaphysics, and that is to be genuinely psychotic."

There is another way, the Tolle road. Immerse yourself in the metaphysic. Then it is no longer a metaphysic, and you don't need one.
That is the power of Now.

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed the personal profiles of the last thread.

Anyone got more? Any people of color out there?

Joan of Argghh! said...

Alright, who farted?

son of a preacher man said...

"Speakin' of jazz, one of the reasons I love bluegrass is because of it's similarity to jazz."

Take five does sound really cool on the banjo.

julie said...


It really isn't what's outside that matters, you know. Not here, anyway. There's probably a lot more diversity than you think - in thought, in occupation, in faith, in color... It's part of why the conversations here are interesting. But it's the soul that matters; everything else is decoration.

But really, why should we answer such nosy questions from someone who won't identify him or herself, and in all likelihood (judging by the tone of the previous questions) wants to validate preconceived notions about the character of raccoons with computer skills?

julie said...

Speaking of the ant-liness of the Olympics, this story is just messed up. It's like a 7-year-old Milli-Vanilli act.

Gagdad Bob said...


Western swing is also very jazzy. These guys too. Incredible stuff: "white trash jazz."

cousin Dupree said...

I am a person of color, although I prefer to be called a negro.

Skully said...

Hey Cuz!
Slap me some skin, bro! Sheeit!

christopher said...

The thing about Indian music is that it seemed when I was there to be more a participation than something for audiences. The way it would happen was a little like when we go camping and someone brings a guitar.

Then in contrast, music gets passed from guru to disciple the same as the spiritual life does in India when it is more complex stuff. You have to prove to the guru that you really want to then it gets into long term sit downs because there are forms and modes and all sorts of other things. And it fuses into spirit because the fasol of the musical language: sa re ga ma pa da ni sa - these are sacred syllables and contain spiritual power. So one singing discipline is to make the sound and sing the syllable at the same time as an offering to God. Rusill Paul does some of this on his CD's which in my opinion give pretty good intro both to the mainstream spiritual music and some of the Indian forms but not too far away from Western music.

Once I heard a guy do really well on a one string bowed instrument that has the string completely way from any board, something like bowing a bow. He was just walkin down the street.

You really can't characterize and lump together this music. It is too diverse. I have heard progressive jazz that sounds worse to me than most Indian stuff.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Thanks for the recoonmendation, Bob!

Hey, I noticed another artist that looks interesting on the same page.
Sounds familiar...Joe Maphis.
Ever heard of him? I'm certain I have but it's been a long time.

Brown Person said...

What I want to know is, who here works for the La-Z-Boy chair company in Monroe MI?

Man, that's gotta be one sweet gig!

Gagdad Bob said...

No, never really heard any Joe Maphis. I'm more partial to the Bakersfield Sound of Mr. Buck Owens or Mr. Merle Haggard....

ximeze said...

"Toward man as ant, or the elimination of man as such. It was like a leftist mass, I suppose."

Yup, all those groupings kept reminding me of descriptions of the Red Army swarming battlefields in Korea. Men as ants, indeed.

Gagdad Bob said...

The announcer said the ceremony reflected the
"three major philosophies of China," including Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism. Seems to me they left out the most important one... what's it called?... starts with an "M"...

Anonymous said...

The Chinese are actually a hive organism. Understand them as a single person with many appendages.

The spectacle of the Olympic opener confirmed the Chinese are capable of feats of mass synchronicity which we cannot hope to match; then again, as Bob pointed out, individuation is OUR forte.

Well, viva la difference. It is illogical, however, to prefer individuation over hive organism systems. Different, yes, however, inferior, no. It all depends upon what you want to accomplish. The Chinese command respect for their accomplishment at the opening ceremony, even if repellent to Bob.

Do not make the mistake of assuming Bob is the be all and end all of humans. He is only a man and you should not base opinions on his reactions/opinions. Think for yourself.

Anonymous said...

At our Space institute in Singapore, we think the Chinese will be the first nation to reach Mars, not the United States.

This will confirm China as the pre-eminent scientific and economic power on the globe, by the year 2020.

However, China suffers from a spiritual vaccuum and I advise younger racoons to learn Chinese and to transmigrate there to have maximum impact on China and hence the flow of history.

Grasp this opportunity to infect virus-like raccoonism into susceptible China masses, leading to enriched happiness. China is ready for you.

julie said...

"Think for yourself"

No kidding? Because, you know, I thought the whole purpose here was to form a hive of worker bees to cater to Queen - er, King Bob and march to his drumbeat.

Yes, every day I wake up and ask myself, "What would Bob do..."

...then I come to my senses, realizing that what Bob would do would probably be grossly inappropriate for me to do, for a whole host of reasons. And yet, somehow, I manage to make it through the day. And so do all the other raccoons. Fancy that.

Skully said...

Julie said-
"...then I come to my senses, realizing that what Bob would do would probably be grossly inappropriate for me to do, for a whole host of reasons."

Plus Mrs. G. would be surprised!

Gagdad Bob said...

Anyway, I didn't say the whole thing was repellant. Mostly I found it just majestically tedious, like the Rose Parade. But I admit I am the exception, as I have a freakishly low threshold of boredom. It's why I'm drawn to extreme seeking and other innerdoor sports.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

WWBD? Kinda has a ring to it, doncha think? :^)

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"It is illogical, however, to prefer individuation over hive organism systems."

Let me guess, you are part of the Chinese Special Olympics Commitee, right?

Gagdad Bob said...

Frankly, I haven't enjoyed the Olympics since they started trying to make it into a big -- you will forgive the expression -- chick flick or soap opera some two decades ago. In order to cover the vast amount of money spent on securing the rights, they had to get women interested, hence, things like the grandiose opening ceremony, which has nothing whatsoever to do with sports. I'm not even sure what it was. Marketing? Naked propaganda? A circus? A Chinese Ed Sullivan Show?

julie said...

I'm actually surprised you lasted for 20 minutes. I forgot to tune in at all. But then, I haven't really cared about the Olympics since the Cold War was over.

Skully said...

Naked propaganda? I thought the Chinese banned porn.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

They should've let Jackie Chan run the show. At least he's funny.

Gagdad Bob said...

Or dub in some bad dialogue, like those old Bruce Lee movies....

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Ha ha! Aye! Bad dialogue (and bad voice acting) is underrated for it's comedic value.

Plus they could've gotten those
MST3K guys to critique it.

Anonymous said...

The Olympics express the group ego of nations. When you watch the Olympics on television here, the American athletes dominate the lens and the interest. In other countries, they watch their own athletes.

Ah, but the thing is to better than the other nations. That's what counts. And the opener has become a de-facto sporting event, in which nations vy to top each other.

The opener is a combination of Las Vegas flash and an attempt to cram national symbolism into a compact and eye-catching form.

The effusive fireworks were symbolic of China's military might, for example. Another exhibit showcased space exploration, etc. The sychronized dancing expressed the conformity of the Chinese, which they are proud of.

China's opener is a hard act to follow. Pity London.

Gagdad Bob said...

Materialists will go to no ends to save the appearances of their vacuous misosophy. It's like adding epicycles to try to force the ptolemaic system to work.

Gagdad Bob said...

I would say a bust of Churchill would surpass the Chinese propaganda.

Gagdad Bob said...

or Adam Smith.

Joan of Argghh! said...

At our Space institute in Singapore, we think the Chinese will be the first nation to reach Mars, not the United States.

Uhm... too late.

julie said...

That's an interesting article. I liked this line (quoted from the interview being referenced):

"[Carroll:] I don’t want to give advice to people about their religious beliefs, but I do think that it’s not smart to bet against the power of science to figure out the natural world."

Sounds just like something Ray would agree with.

Doesn't a lot of string theory go hand-in-hand with the concept of the multiverse? I remember reading up about a lot of the ideas behind it a few years ago, and being completely unconvinced. It came across as the physics equivalent of arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin: pure speculation, completely unprovable and untestable, akin to solving a difficult math problem by dividing by zero.

Gagdad Bob said...

No. My understanding is that String Theory is an attempt to unify the macro world of relativity theory and the micro world of quantum physics, which are presently irreconcilable. So it involves a lot of elegant and/or ugly math to try to do the job, but with no empirical basis at all.

Gagdad Bob said...

You're probably thinking of all the mathematical dimensions they have to add in to make the equations work.

julie said...

That might be it; it's been a few years, and of course I only saw the Sci-Am synopsis of how it all works. What I read came across, at the time, as being a kind of metaphysics for physicists.

Sibylline Zipper said...

They should just build a permanent state-of-the-art Olympic facility in Greece and avoid all this expensive flag waving nonsense. Then they could afford to have the athletes compete every year, giving them more kicks at the can. It would also be nice if they restricted it to athletes from democracies, in honor of the actual founders. It might give some incentive to the people of dictatorships to start a revolution to avoid being excluded.

Susannah said...

The ho-ho's are, um...gone. :) But not the ones from this thread. :)

Odd, given the "hive's" superiority over American individuality, how the Chinese, as soon as they escaped their forced conformity and come over here on temporary visas, start working their tushies off to make as much money as possible--in some cases to get their families here too.

Hive thinking dumbs humanity down. As soon as one escapes it, any misplaced pride in it evaporates the moment freedom and opportunity beckon.

Didn't get to see the opening ceremony (no tv), but I'm kinda hoping the British just stick a guy with a guitar down there on the field or something. Sometimes turning the flame down to "simmer" is the best thing to do aesthetically. Like worship with an acoustic guitar.

Or a sitar, as in the case of Indian worship music.


I have one of their CD's, and admit to liking it. Of course, they were formed by a Westerner. (Bluegrass is my jazz of choice too, BTW. :) )

Gagdad Bob said...

George Will:

"This year's August upheaval coincides, probably not coincidentally, with the world's preoccupation with that charade of international comity, the Olympics. For only the third time in 72 years (Berlin 1936, Moscow 1980), the games are being hosted by a tyrannical regime, the mind of which was displayed in the opening ceremony featuring thousands of drummers, each face contorted with the same grotesquely frozen grin. It was a tableau of the miniaturization of the individual and the subordination of individuality to the collective. Not since the Nazi's 1934 Nuremberg rally, which Leni Riefenstahl turned into the film "Triumph of the Will," has tyranny been so brazenly tarted up as art."

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

And what about all those panda-people? Was that creepy or what?

ximeze said...

"The effusive fireworks were symbolic of China's military might, for example."

Oh, ya mean the fake ones? Damn toot'n there Hive Boy.

Meanwhile, our guys in Samarra, Iraq, celebrated 4th of July with real-deal military might, er, 'fireworks display', just for the fun of it.
(Hint: think non-hive troopers, away from home for the holiday, with time on their hands,and lots & lots of live-ordnance)

Ricky Raccoon said...

I’m glad I was not the only one who thought so about the opening ceremony. Was cool for 5 seconds and then by the 6th noticed the big LCD screen had been invented already and why should a perfectly good human being aspire to be a pixel of all things and then smile from ear to ear like a happy little #.
Other than that it was really really cool. Or cold.

NoMo said...

Bob - Thanks for the opening dose of Errol Harris today. Intense. Single unity = unified diversity, in the reality of time, demands a nontemporal Trinity.

I have to dig into some more EH. Recommendation?

From the Joker - “Introduce a little anarchy, upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos, I’m an agent of chaos , and you know the thing about chaos? It’s fair.”

Or, "Change we can believe in". Its fair.

ximeze said...

"they had to get women interested"?????

"Naked propaganda"??????

Don't you DARE go diss'n my beloved poolwater-dripping TunaBods, with their skin-tight, half-peeled-off high-performance-suits, as mere eye-candy on display!

Susannah said...

"deconstruction personified, or the archetype of Tenured Man"

I haven't seen the movie, but this paints a far clearer picture than the movie ever could. "The Tenured Man"--great title for a horror flick.

OT: That sort of reminds me of the movie The Addiction.

QP said...

At City Journal:

Obama, Shaman
The candidate’s post-masculine charisma tempts America in the age of Oprah.

In breathing fresh life into Machiavelli’s communitarian daydream, Obama revives a style of charismatic leadership that fell out of favor in the United States after the death of FDR. Of the three presidents since 1945 most often regarded as possessing charismatic qualities, the first, Kennedy, was a tax cutter who questioned liberal utopianism when he said that “life is not fair,” and the second, Reagan, sought to curb the hubris of New Deal étatisme. The third, Clinton, said that he could feel our pain but retreated from his pledge to heal it when he scrapped a plan to nationalize medicine. Obama, by contrast, is faithful to the old-style charismatics, whose slogans (“social solidarity,” for example) he has taken out of cold storage.

Of course, he would not have gotten far had he simply defrosted the ideas of Henry Wallace and George McGovern. Obama’s charisma is tuned to the mood of the moment. The charisma of American political leaders has typically rested on images of unflinching strength and masculine authority: Teddy Roosevelt in the North Dakota Badlands; Kennedy, the naval hero whose sexual prowess was acknowledged even in his Secret Service code name (“Lancer”); Reagan, the man on horseback whom the Secret Service called “Rawhide.” Obama’s charisma, by contrast, is closer to what critic Camille Paglia has identified with today’s television talk-show culture, in which admissions of weakness are offered as proof of empathetic qualities. Talk-show culture is occupied with the question of why we feel so bad, when it is our right under the liberal dispensation to feel eternally good. The man who would succeed in such a culture must appear to sympathize with these obscure hurts; he must take pains, Paglia writes in Sexual Personae, to appear an “androgyne, the nurturant male or male mother.”

Obama, in gaming this culture, has figured out a new way to bottle old wine. He knows that experience has taught Americans to suspect the masculine healer-redeemer who bears collectivist gifts; no one wants to revive the caudillos of the thirties. Studiously avoiding the tough-hombre style of earlier charismatic figures, he phrases his vision in the tranquilizing accents of Oprah-land. His charisma is grounded in empathy rather than authority, confessional candor rather than muscular strength, metrosexual mildness rather than masculine testosterone. His power of sympathetic insight is said to be uncanny: “Everybody who’s dealt with him,” columnist David Brooks says, “has a story about a time when they felt Obama profoundly listened to them and understood them.” His two books are written in the empathetic-confessional mode that his most prominent benefactress, Oprah, favors; he is her political healer in roughly the same way that Dr. Phil was once her pop-psychology one. The collectivist dream, Obama instinctively understands, is less scary, more sympathetic, when served up by mama (or by mama in drag).

Susannah said...

The Point had, well, a point (re: Olympics in China):


ximeze said...

"His charisma is grounded in empathy rather than authority, confessional candor rather than muscular strength, metrosexual mildness rather than masculine testosterone."


Revenge being a dish best served cold, ol' Vlad Putin has gotta be smacking his lips & think'n Charisma-boy will be making a very tasty snack.

Anonymous said...

The remarkable thing about the Chinese opener is that they are capable of feats we could not duplicate even if we tried with all of our might. A US national crash program in sychronized drumming would likely fail to scare up enough candidates or produce a comparable spectacle.

Part of the fun of being American used to be the easy hubris of watching foreigners trying so hard to do things and then saying, "Yeah, we could that (insert ridiculous thing) but better, if we wanted to."

The times they are a 'changin. Its chilling to think of foreign cultures with skill levels at ANYTHING that surpass what Americans are capable of at full effort.

And the list might grow: mathematics, technology, armaments, tactics, command and control, leadership.

The Olympic opener, despite being gaudy, was at its core a display of martial solidarity and we should take note of the implied threat.

Anonymous said...

The previous anon has a point. But, every problem is also an opportunity.

Obama, for instance, after he is elected, could back China in a bid to retake Taiwan (or at least do nothing). And look the other way on Tibet too.

In return, China could roll some heavy divisions out of its southern border, smash through parts of Nepal, and take the pesty Persians on the Eastern flank, in concert with our jab out of Iraq. An easy shock victory within a matter of weeks, if not days.

It could be a winning combination--US and China could combine to produce a de-facto world oligarchy.

All hail the George Bush tollway said...

Ximeze: Whyfor is Putin keeping you awake at night? Personally I'll happily let Charisma-Boy deal with actual scenarios rather than imagined scare-narios. I know that having a president actually interested in the will of the people may seem like a revolutionary idea, but word on the street is that LOTS of folks think it's an idea whose time has come.

ximeze said...

all hail:

Good luck with your fantasy kumbaya there kiddo. Vlad never keeps me up at night & and he's welcome to Obambi on a spit, as far as I'm concerned. If this nation is suicidal enough to make such a loser POTUS, we'll deserve most everything that's thrown at us. But he won't win: his numbers are sinking like a stone. I was around for McGovern & seen it all before.

(do adults actually use such juvenilia?)
Question: you sound quite young. Were you even alive during the Cold War & not having been there, somehow believe the KGB were all warm and fuzzy? You'd be a fool to believe Mother Russia has not just been biding her time. Read-up on what happens to anyone who crosses Vlad & then we can talk.

Obambi is "actually interested in the will of the people"? How sweet, my dear, that you can still retain such naivete.


Anon 10:33
Don't forget they still have to steal or buy technologies from original thinkers. There are some who say hard economic times are coming to China, so we'll just have to wait & see. When they start dreaming-up original stuff & not just being copyists, then I'll worry.

ximeze said...

Hey Coons, don't miss "Nemesis stalks the Democrats" by James Lewis on American Thinker 8/13/08 - it's a kick!

late night annonymoron said...

The previous annonimusses has a point.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Hey Ximeze!
Thanks for the heads up! Excellent article, LOL!
Here's an excerpt:

"Just look at the liberal list of Planetary Saviors:

Jimmy Carter, now living as an international nag, to loud cheers from the sneering snobs of Europe and the UN, Iran and the Arabian deserts;

Al Gore, driven mad by his Florida loss to George W. Bush, who got so snippified that he sued and sued until the US Supremes slapped him down, then carried his rage around the world until he became the superfatted incarnation of international eco-fury;

John Kerry, who accused his Vietnam buddies of rape and murder, and then went around for forty years with his Swiftboat Navy hat folded in his briefcase;

The Clintons with their folie a deux, determined to get four presidential terms, two for him and two for her;

and finally we have today's popular extravaganza, Senator Barack Obama and his Flying Circus. There was Senator O, taking his self-congratulatory victory lap three months before the US election, in front of 200,000 Citizens of the World in Berlin -- while disdaining the chance to face his Republican opponent in town hall meetings in front of American voters."

Great writing, and scathingly true! :^)

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Hey guys!
Here's another good one from James Lewis:

March of the Obots

"If you listen to Obotic audiences giggling at the dull punchlines flung by this year's World Savior, you have to think this country is run by mental throwbacks. All the research on brain damage from party drugs ... too much alcohol ... and common STDs ... suggests that a lot of zombie-libs are cognitively impaired. Don't look at me -- that's what the studies say. ... They're mostly done by academic liberals, who are trying not to discover what they keep discovering anyway."

Ha ha! Whack! That's gonna leave a mark!

Van said...

Good post and a fun bunch of comments to(yester)day. I haven't bothered to watch the Olympics at all, its such a perversion. And especially with China as the host... not surprising to hear about their various frauds in faking singers & fireworks - not difficult to imagine what else - all to 'look good' (too much effort to actually BE Good).

Sorta reminds me of the Clampets gettin purdied up to invite the Dreysdales over for vittles. Except of course that the Clampets were at least Good... maybe more like the Clampets on red kryptonite....

Captain Fezziwig said...

I’m with Ximeze.
If the Chicoms land on the moon (they’re shootin for 2024) they will still be fifty odd years behind us AND relying on patched-together fire-sale purchased technology. And how far behind would they be had they started from scratch like we did. Fifty years = never-catch-up in this race, just ask Moore’s Law.
Another thing, in the real world, the inventor get’s credit for the invention. Just check the Patent office, Dr. Frahnkenshteen, for how well it works for them copycaters.
And if they do land on the moon, will the same “truthers” just believe it, or will they fall all over themselves trying to prove it was filmed at some top secret sound stage. I’m going with the first one.

Fido, file under: “Improper application of imagination”. There is already a drawer started in the big cabinet on: “The Left”.

Van said...

late night annonymoron said "Mu.
The previous annonimusses has a point."

I think "Moo" is better suited to you and your point.

Van said...

Hey Ximeze... see Ben churning out those blued links? Pretty nifty. But it's ok... we understand the impairments most soccer fans have to deal with.

(Olympic track stars blink in the dust of my high tailing it out of the strike zone)

Susannah said...

"Charisma-boy" voted for killing babies. That's all it takes to revulse me. End of story. The marxism and racism are just the crust on the sewage.

ximeze said...

Watchit dork, or I get my Tunabods to use those flippers-they-call-hands to teach you a lesson.

Niggardly Phil said...


Has this joke already been made a hundred times?

I think the seventies were God's way of punishing us for the production of Jesus Christ Superstar.

Niggardly Phil said...


Van said...

ximeze said "Watchit dork, or I get my Tunabods to use those flippers-they-call-hands to teach you a lesson."



At least the tunabods probably play real sports... like water polo.

(toys with spear gun.... makes sure has days worth of air in the tanks)

all hail the george bush tollway said...

"do adults actually use such juvenilia?" !! Around these parts? Naw, of course not honey. Now, where were you...

"you sound quite young". Thank you. If you weren't so worried, you'd sound quite cynical.

I'll take the eager to please over the eager to squeeze this time around, old timer. Adjust your bifocals and take a good look around at what's no longer a part of the American Here And Now. (Your paranoid, xenophobic, jaded views on the Olympics withstanding.) This isn't charisma boy's fault, nor any of his (hoo, so scary) supporters. It's just the backwash of an increasingly top-heavy pendulum with nothing left to clang against. Or for.

Meet you on election day for an honest look at "the will of the people". Then you can resume the name calling with real kitty-kat zeal.

Van said...

stupidly obscessed with bush all the way said "... It's just the backwash of an increasingly top-heavy pendulum with nothing left to clang against. Or for..."

I wonder if you noticed that that made not a lick of sense?

Then again, being a leftist... probably not.

Happy November 4th

all hail the george bush tollway said...

Mr. Neuman:

Sorry to have awakooned you, little fella.
As if a Liberty metaphor would resonate within your cracked noggin. ("Who, Me?") That doesn't stop those with hearing from knowing what freedom ringing used to sound like.
Point your fingers any way but in, like George's Daddy used to say. But remember there's lots of finger pointing going on because there's a whole lot of America gone missing since Mr. Bush stepped into his version of a fraternity house eight years ago. You'll feel it yourself once you get past the shock, awe, and fear of not being right all the time. So to speak.

Charisma boy has more vertical orientation in his little finger than Dame Ximeze's croney does in his hole being. That you won't see that doesn't change anything for anyone but you.

"obscessed". As in George Bush The Abcess? Not bad.

Van said...

silly troll who forgot his name and fanaticizes about bush said "Mr. Newman"

? New Man maybe?
Well, no on either count, no one but us old fashioned Men here.

"...feel it yourself once you get past the shock, awe, and fear of not being right all the time."

Nah. Not gonna happen. I'd have to get past the shock awe and fear from being right all the time, first... and that... ain't gonna happen.

"Point your fingers ... finger pointing ...orientation in his little finger ..."

You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with fingers and pointing... didn't your mommy tell you it wasn't nice to point? But then I'll bet she also told you not to whine, or complain when you lose, or call people names or disturb the grown ups. Funny thing about obamomma's boys, they never really listen to their mommies.

(what is it you do with your fingers? Yech.)

(still laughing)

all hail the george bush tollway said...

Hey smarm, you wear your sense of humor on your sleeve. You ought to check out Gallagher or Carrot Top...Talk about L. O. L! A

BTW, who invited you to this particular egg toss anyway? Oh, you're the "man" who has to run to oversee every skirmish, with or without a dog in the fight. Yes, highly evolved. Within the circumference of your own neighborhood. Maybe.

Missed the Neuman reference too? Who, ME? Wow. For a guy who thinks he's smart, you don't acquit yourself very well. It's one thing to miss a point, another to miss a reference, yet another to be obstinate, yet another to be so prideful you don't even know what it is you don't know.

Ignorance is bliss, but willful ignorance is the scat trail of a mind parasite. Try the audience of one again, bra. It's time.

all hail the george bush tollway said...


re: my previous post,
The "A" after L. O. L. was a typo. It should read only "L. O. L!". I should have proofed it first but didn't. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

(See? It's mildly painful, but that's not the learning one carries forward. I'm convinced you're curious, thus ready. Try it on the dog first.)

ximeze said...

Sweetheart, don't worry. We don't hold your inexperience against you. How can we, since we were just as silly as you are when we were your age. It's actually kinda cute.

Anonymous said...

Nice posts (generally).

Hey Bob, Ben, Julie, Joanie of Argish, Ximese et. al.

Example banality:

"The previous anon has a point. But, every problem is also an opportunity."

I was dealing with this nonsense when I was in a high school philosophy class. Sheesh.

Example: I point a pistol to your head, I am going to pull the trigger. You have no opportunity to do anything but die and hit the floor. Know what? Thats your problem.

With regard to those who are somewhat "Evian" about Obama and Putin and communism in general (and yes, Obama is a Marxist if you did not do your homework).

Besides, if what we hear is true, Obama is currently having "electile dysfunction."

Obama E. Neuman

Victor Sheymov has an excellent latter chapter about why communism is such rotten ideology. The whole book is a good read.

The all time great summary of late is the best read on the subject.

After having studied Soviet Espionage and Intelligence, on my own and in school,
I observe that those who continue to participate in this sick, oppresive philosophy will only cause further death and destruction with their tyrannies. All the while shoveling their Utopian ideologies. (Of late, masked in things like "Global Warming" and the Green Party).

It is easy to understand youth and inexperience could contribute to the inability to rightly divide the facts and come up with adequate conclusions.

Considering the obvious lack of critical thinking skills taught in today's left-dominant colleges and universities it is no surprise we turn out goo-headed mushy thinkers that honestly believe (albeit incorrectly) that the world revolves around their opinion and are unable to notice they, along with their frame of reference have been deliberately manipulated.

The remark I quoted above is a classic example. By those in-stream with that thinking, it is a marvelous turn of phrase, a "good point" to consider. It all denies the reality of how instant death can prove the inoperability of such thinking.

It is a very blind college rhetorical stance to come up with mere counterpoint and call it logic. You might as well have said, "Oh Yeah?"

As for this remark:

"Ignorance is bliss, but willful ignorance is the scat trail of a mind parasite."

It is true only stated by someone who is aware of the implications. Spoken by someone buried in rhetoric, it is merely a litmus test for the presence of "replicators" -mind parasites from hell.

The primary indication of the truth versus rhetoric, is obvious in the trollishness exhibited.

It is fun to poke the nest and see what arises at times.

Obama's only experience is in being a Chicago political hack. He has involved himself with criminal behaviors, criminals, domestic and foreign terrorists, and is a Marxist who will harm this country further than Harry Reed and Nancy Pelosi ever could. George Soarass will be proud of another of his creations.

Don't cry to me if he gets elected and you end up under the tyranny of the left. You get drunk on his Utopian beer, the empty promises of "Hope" and "Change" -which only mean more oppresion for all.




Thereby become more informed, and possibly enlightened. (Did you really think you were the first one to have thoughts like this, that it is new?)

I think not.

Hey Ben, I wonder if the joker will realize...


Van said...

really well read trol under the Bush HiWay said "The "A" after L. O. L. was a typo. It should read only "L. O. L!""

How about the 'a' in "Try the audience of one again, bra"... or is that back to the finger pointing and mommie obcesion again?

Sorry, I shouldn't pry.

(Hey Luke!)

all hail the george bush tollway said...

Van? You awake? Want some tea?

Wow, dude. No. It's not a typo. I thought you'd done some traveling while you were on the road in a band. My mistake bra. Go back to your program.

OK Ximeze,

I had no idea you were this clever. I'm licked. I give up. I didn't have any exit strategy. Make him stop. I may consider voting for McCain. If I do vote for Obama I'll do so late in the day. Consider this a "conscesion".


Thanks. Unlike some, I'm still open to learning. I may be casting an anti-bush vote more than a probama vote. And I'm not worried that the US will suddenly turn Marxist with any more damage to my personal freedom than the last eight years under a dictator hath wrought. I have my own personal experience of the last eight years as an American with which to judge one particular political methodology. Conjecture about what damage to your personal freedoms Obama may or may not do when in office is just that. If one is hypothetically going to experience the gun to the head scare-nario (nods, X!) you pose, I personally would rather see some passionate, shiny-eyed terrorist creep on the other end of the gun than some dispassionate, uniformed, salaried wannabe from the Department of Homeland Security. Conjecture what you will as to the likelihood of either under whose leadership. Then translate metaphors & allegories and spell check for Van. (Or is there really no Van but just a diabolically clever Ximeze?)

We've all got our curricula. I didn't choose yours, and you didn't choose mine, and that's no accident. Reap, sow. Free will, God-given.

Van said...

no life but hating Bush's way said "Unlike some, I'm still open to learning"

Heh, yeah... it shows... like a drafty window that can't keep in the heat or the cold but welcomes in the storm.

"No. It's not a typo. I thought you'd done some traveling while you were on the road in a band. My mistake bra."

Hmm... well... I did come into a fair amount of contact with bra's back then... very few people however who thought to call me, or anyone else 'bra'. Heard 'Bro' a few times... especially around the beach... but nah... never 'bra'. Maybe the 80's really were a long time ago. That or it just sounds that way to your Siberian accent... dunno.

Oh inte, you do amuse. Take a close look at my picture. Smiling. Thanks for amusing me so.

Anonymous said...


(Hey Van)

I deliberately stayed away from this earlier, but Baracka Hussein Obama really is dangerous.

He himself is a Marxist, in league with other Marxists, Communists and other numbnuts.

If that were not bad enough, he is a totally inexperienced man for the job. Sorry, being a social activist in the 'hood does not cut it. He is also being handled and run a bit by George Soros and handled well by some media clowns who are "selling him" to us.

What really galls me is, people actually believe the media and the hype about Obama, as if it were true.

There are several recent books which ask the questions nobody has asked (and we are not long out from an election).

Naturally, these books are being slammed by the Obamanite armies as being propaganda, racist, hate speech, etc. etc. The usual rotton stink from the left.. shut everyone up that does not agree with you, and insist you are for fairness and the truth.

This also is not merely about Bush hating anti-war in Iraq rhetoric. There has been the persistent unseen war that has gone on for quite a while.

Daily there are espionage transmissions on shortwave radio all over the world.

Oddly enough, New Star Broadcasting was rising in transmissions and traffic during the Clinton years.

The point I am making if you missed it, is that there are hideous amounts of death dealing, death loving haters on this planet. Believe it or not, it is not the US who is the dominant player. The US has been the dominant player in defeating such things.

This is why they hate us more, it is ongoing. If you believe that peace is the norm, you are exactly backwards. Peace is the exception to the rule.

Questioning about Obama:



and the lastest one is here.

Now, did I say I agree with every word in all these links? Of course not. What concerns me is that nobody seems to even want to ask the basic questions about Obama. If you even hint you would, he won't talk to you and you are a racist and against change and hope.

I hear jackboots coming. There are too many who are naive enough to think they are not coming for all of us.

Not good.


all hail the george bush tollway said...

Thanks for taking the time to respond Luke.

I take your points seriously, and will check out the resources even if I don't buy the books.
I will weigh them against what I like most about Obama, and I will stick my neck out to tell you in this forgotten corner of the OC blog just what that is:

He has captured the imagination of many Americans, and I believe that currently Imagination is our strongest asset. Most Americans have become so vacuous due to a steady diet of Rupert Murdock's discovery of just how low America will go that (WE) don't have much WILL left. But we like to IMAGINE that we do. And until some harsh reality slaps down the group notion that imagination is only reality DREAMED of, we will continue to think that watching American Idol and Castaway (or whatever it's called) on our huge new flat-panel HDTV is "quality time". The wake-up call of an invading force descending upon our homeland may be the only ticket toward strengthening our will.

Or: Maybe Obama can galvanize some of the dullards, via their active imaginations, to BELIEVE that they have a stake in this country, to begin acting as if. I am not willing to undergo another round of "Peace through (whatever) strength (we can muster and/or administrate), as I've just been through an eight year course in that curriculum. It has made me personally feel far less safe and comfortable than I did before we decided might is right. I don't think the problems you list will go away, or be understood out of existence. I think it's time we take a more experimental approach, and let the x-factor take a shot at it. If anyone wants to call that naive, I won't challenge them. I can only say that I was naive enough to vote for George Bush also, and look where that got me. My vote will still count the same as it ever did.

Nothing anyone can say here will convince me that the corporate entrepreneurs in power will suddenly change their style or their lifestlyes if Obama is elected. Corporate America has persevered and cajoled through enough administrations to make a roach envious. They rally against Obama because they currently have a smooth ride and want to keep it that way.

Enough Americans are disillusioned with the loss of prestige, credibility, and self-worth that the current administration has handed us that (We) can't, in good conscience, vote for another Republican. Even if we secretly might want to. Even if we secretly believe their candidate might be better qualified. It's time to give the other side a chance to tip the scales. The process has worked so far, we have survived through countless bad presidents, and we can survive another (Marxist) (Socialist) (Muslim) president because of the checks and balances we (hopefully) still have left in the system even after Bush is done with it.

What either candidate says, after all, is pretty much all BS. No matter which side they're on. (Remember "read my lips"?). They're trying to get elected and they'll say whatever it takes. This election is no different. Last campaign, the dems had a lackluster candidate even before the swift boat sinking. This year they have a rock star, and the republicans have the lackluster candidate. It's the way it is and the way it will remain, barring some good old American Smear, which we've all proven time and again we're ready to support. And we'll buy the Tide and the Cheez-Wiz and the Miller Lite to prove it. So what if we find ourselves suddenly facing our worst nightmare? Been there, done that. Still I have my faith and my relationship, moreso probably because of those events. Life is for learning.