Wednesday, January 16, 2008

Follow the Depth

The pneumatic is a man who identifies a priori with his spiritual substance and thus always remains faithful to himself; he is not a mask unaware of his scope, as is the man enclosed in accidentality. --F. Schuon

I suppose one of the secrets of keeping my readership quite... er, "compact," is the ability to alienate people of all persuasions. Only a masochistic leftist is going to read more than one post here. A new-ager or integralist might initially be drawn in, but then be repelled by my traditionalism and moonbat-battering. Traditionalists are put off by my evolutionism, while many Jews (not Lisa, of course) and followers of eastern religions might be put off by my Christian slant. But many Christians are eventually put off by my neo-Vedantin orientation, not to mention my esoteric and Hermetic understanding of Christianity. Today perhaps I'll alienate the rest, and finally have some solitude.

With that in mind, what follows is not actually an attempt to start or continue an argument, but a rambling exploration of some important principles. I'm just talking to myself, Coon to Coon. Feel free to listen in.

AT in LA writes that:

There really isn't such thing as Christianity. Only Christ and His Church. His authenticity and authority, or not. For each of us, we are able to receive what we are disposed to receive, and that is the rub. He is who he claimed to be and rose from the dead, or the whole thing is a sham with some nice teachings and miracles thrown in. And that's not my opinion or position, but the claim put forward to us all.

Not to be pedantic about it, but there must be such a thing as Christianity, or we wouldn't be able to recognize it. Something only exists by virtue of being defined, even if we can't fully understand the definition. It reminds me of when physicists say that time doesn't exist. Oh really? It takes time to recognize time, let alone deny its existence. More importantly, the archetypal quality of duration, or "eternity extended," transcends anything physicists can say about quantitative time. Put another way, it takes a minimum of 13.7 billion years to produce a physicist capable of making such a self-refuting statement. And that's the law.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that an "archetypal Christianity" exists, but that Man's definitions of it perpetually -- and perhaps necessarly -- fall short, for reasons related to Plato's allegory of the cave. However, in my opinion, this is where esoterism, metaphysics, and Hermeticism come to the rescue, as they all deal with the fundamental cosmic principles that simply "cannot not be," and which religion is here to disclose in a way that the average Man can understand.

I align mysoph with Saint Augustine, who wrote that "What we now call the Christian religion existed amongst the ancients, and was from the beginning of the human race, until Christ Himself came in the flesh; from which time the already existing true religion began to be styled Christian." What a profound statement! I would only add that this true religion never existed "on earth," since it is archetypal. It is the archetypal form in light of which the substance of religion can be seen. But perhaps the most paradoxical thing about it is that it is not superior to the form it takes, any more than the idea of Mother is superior to your dear old Mom, or the baseball rule book is superior to a game.

The "already existing true religion" is the "root religion" of all mankind, bearing in mind that the Tree of Life has its nonlocal roots aloft, its local branches and district offices down below. Because it exists, people could (and can) recognize and understand Christianity when they heard it. Otherwise, Christianity would simply be an absurdity, which it obviously isn't. True, many modern intellectuals regard it as one, but that's only because they aren't intellectuals in the true sense of that word, which means to have an awakened intellect, or nous.

In essence, these sleepwaking clockjockeys down in flatland try to understand transcendent reality with senses and modes adapted to, and reflecting, the material world. But the lower cannot comprehend the higher, since the lower is a descent, or involution, of the higher. That being the case, we can only evolve toward the One because the One is involved in the many -- which is just another way of saying that everything (including, of course, the mind) is made of language, or the word. If it weren't, we couldn't read reality like a book.

It is perfectly true that Christianity cannot be understood by the ego or profane mind, but that doesn't mean it can't be understood at all. In fact, many Christians who say so are under the same illusions as the modern skeptics, except they're just not as proud of their minds. ("God said it, I believe it, that settles it.") You might say that they believe it because it is absurd, as a kind of defiant alternative (but on the same plane) to the ego's verdict that all of reality is ultimately absurd. Nevertheless, there is obviously a deeper part of theirwholes that Christianity "speaks to," even if they only dimly apprehend its dimensions and coordinates.

What is the part of us that recognizes and understands the "divine message," or (n), since it is obviously a necessary condition for the earthly existence of Christianity? More on that later. For now, let's just call it (¶). In the absence of (¶) there can be no (n), for the same reason that in the absence of ears there can be no sound. Let those with ears hear! More fundamentally, let ears be the material instantiation, or descent of the cosmic archetypal principle of sound. This is the sacred syllable, AUM, "which is in all the scriptures -- the supreme syllable, the mother of all sound" (Taittirya Upanishad), for A-u-m-en are created equal.

Thus, if Christianity is true, it must not only echo the a priori meta-cosmic principles, but -- for the faithful -- be an essentially "perfect" instantiation of them, a luminous obscurity seen "through a glass darkly," but seen more clearly with the eyes of faith. "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect" = work at being a more accurate immanent image of the transcendent Principle. Just because you can never achieve perfection in this life, it doesn't mean the Principle doesn't exist or that you should stop trying to reach it.

I suppose it comes down to the question of how much Truth may be discovered by Man in the absence of revelation. I'm guessing that the sort of Christian I alienate would be the type who insists that we cannot really understand these ultimate principles, but simply have to accept on faith the ones that are revealed to us, even if they seem illogical, clash with everything else we know to be true of the world, and do not appeal to the intellect. Call me promethian, like great aunt Mary, but I just find this unacceptable.

I believe there are close to 60,000 groups/sects/denominations that might all label themselves "Christian", but many hold central beliefs that are opposed to one another. This is clearly impossible and it's no wonder people are reluctant about it and even get, as Bob would say, the Jesus willies, when a lot of what passes for Christianity has little to do with Christ.

The fact that there are 60,000 interpretations of Christianity should tell us something. Not that they are false, but that most of them are attempting to describe a hyperdimensional manifold with eyes designed for only three dimensions. On the horizontal axis, things are either true or false in the unambiguous scientific sense. But only on the vertical axis can you get into "profound truths," some of which might even superficially contradict one another.

Speaking only for myself -- as something of an inside outsider or outside insider -- I find the most consistently "full" elaboration of this hyperdimensional object to abide within Orthodoxy, with certain vital Catholic contributions added later, for example, Meister Eckhart, whose vision might well be most compatible with my own. (In the near future, I hope to do a series of posts to explore his thought in great detail.)

Statements of higher truth never merely contain what they contain. Rather, they are activated in unpredictable ways upon contact with them by one's own gnosis. This is why Schuon says that "there is the order of principles, which is immutable, and the order of information -- traditional or otherwise -- of which one can say that it is inexhaustible."

Obviously even in my own faulty way, my wording or unintentional tonality may cause some to say, "here we go again, another naive 'Christian.'" But all I would say is, look into it yourself. It's a big claim. It's very unique to human kind and our history. We are all imperfect and faulty souls. Don't let the "Christian" be the stumbling block to Christ.

Not to be pedantic again, but something can't be very unique, only unique, since uniqueness cannot be surpassed. Irrespective of its uniqueness, the esoterist nevertheless goes one step further, and always asks by virtue of what principle is this true? So let's say that Christianity is uniquely true. Nevertheless, the Coon in me wants to know, "by virtue of what principle?"

For example, if we "reverse imagineer" Christianity, there must be an a priori principle that allows the Creator to take human form, unless the Creator just makes it up as he goes along, like Allah. Likewise, there must be an immanent principle that allows the mind of man to be a witness to Christian truth. In the absence of these principles, then Christ could not have appeared and we couldn't have recognized him anyway; unless you simply insist that this is true, regardless of whether you really understand it. Again, I find such a view unacceptable. This was the Christianity that was foisted upon me as a child, and which caused me to unfortunately reject all Christianity out of hand by the time I was 10 years old.

As Schuon has written, "The very word 'man' implies 'God,' the very word 'relative' implies 'Absolute.'" This is an example of another principle that cannot not be. You could say the same for other irreducible polarities such as time and eternity, spirit and matter, form and substance, freedom and determacy, fate and providence, quantity and quality, individual and group, conscious and unconscious, and others.

I suppose my bottom line -- and this will no doubt smell blasfumy to some -- is that Christianity can be true, but it cannot surpass Truth. While the human mind is "made of truth," it only exists in potential until it is realized. Once you walk the blank into God's arbor and your wood beleaf, the coonundrum ends and the Great Mystery begins. And it is a "mystery in motion," otherwise known as an adventure -- the only one that really Is and has ever been: the adventure of consciousness. Don't listen to the others, most of all me. Just follow the depth, for O is nothing if not deep.

27 comments:

robinstarfish said...

Handwritten
on the shining path
a sudden absence of wind
water in three states

Ephrem Antony Gray said...

But many Christians are eventually put off by my neo-Vedantin orientation, not to mention my esoteric and Hermetic understanding of Christianity.

Aw, hahaha. 'Orientation'. Was that an intentional pun? Also, it makes it sound kind of.. sketchy. As for your understanding of Christianity, I myself don't see a conflict between 'Christ as Savior/Lord' and 'Christ as Divine Principle/Exemplar'. I think in his infinite nature he is both things. I think the first is probably more important, but then, that's only on account of the whole 'coeternal' thing. (that is, anyone can be messianic, and anyone can be your superior.)

There really isn't such thing as Christianity. Only Christ and His Church. His authenticity and authority, or not. For each of us, we are able to receive what we are disposed to receive, and that is the rub. He is who he claimed to be and rose from the dead, or the whole thing is a sham with some nice teachings and miracles thrown in. And that's not my opinion or position, but the claim put forward to us all.

AT in LA, while this is true, we forget that Christianity was not announced to the world, bu grew out of and happened mostly in a backwater place and time; Christ himself to the ego would have looked like a normal man; the rational mind even at the time would have said he did not rise, nor did he ascend... So the curious thing is that it was not just 'received' in a sudden, divine sense but given to a bunch of scared, confused Jews who were transformed by this truth into men of courage, faith, gentleness and wisdom. It was and is always a gradual thing; we know a few things for sure (they're in the Creed) and we've got some solid letters, histories and accounts (the canon) plus a bunch, a cloud if you will, of witnesses. All of us are capable of receiving salvation, though some of us will require something deeper (more 'water' for a bigger jar) to come to the realization of what it is we're dealing with. Thus the more intelligent (who are 'rich' in a sense) have a more difficult time with Christ than the simple.

Christ did not claim those things but was them, and just saying we understand does not mean we do. You had said before 'it is simply for us to submit ourselves to him.' How is that working out? We must do exactly that but it is only as simple as we are. It is not simple nor is it easy to understand, or should I say, grok. Even if I by leap of faith say, 'I'll bet he did die, rise from the dead, and ascend to sit at the right hand of te father!' That is an important choice, but it is more akin to taking the right exit on the highway than it is to pulling a salvation switch. Ever try to turn around on the highway? There's always an exit leading there until you reach Death Valley anyway.

I align mysoph with Saint Augustine, who wrote that "What we now call the Christian religion existed amongst the ancients, and was from the beginning of the human race, until Christ Himself came in the flesh; from which time the already existing true religion began to be styled Christian." What a profound statement!

Chesterton thought so too, noting that most of the pantheon of Gods was just a liberal accommodation for everyone's interpretation of what the distant deity was. 'Men walked each in his own path' and 'Eternity is written in the hearts of men.' Everyone had the puzzle pieces, we were just.. um, for the most part not even putting the puzzle together.

I find the most consistently "full" elaboration of this hyperdimensional object to abide within Orthodoxy

It lives, it breathes, and it rocks out (though not during Liturgy)

By the way, thanks to Bulletproof Monk, where'ere he be, for turning me on to 'River of Fire'. It was one of those, er, road signs.

Not to be pedantic again, but something can't be very unique, only unique, since uniqueness cannot be surpassed. Irrespective of its uniqueness, the esoterist nevertheless goes one step further, and always asks by virtue of what principle is this true?

Urrrghhh... pop!

Well, what if God is the only guy who can make up the rules while he goes along without breaking any of them? Like, eternally flying by the seat of One's own pants? I think maybe the principle is 'Freedom', which is the Law of Liberty. So he's not 'Allah' who can 'abrogate' previous rules, but is free to make up new ones - which from Eternity means they were Always true anyway... er..

Er, maybe I mean, God is always making up new rules but never breaking any of them? So an Elephant can't be a different size than it is just being an elephant, but God can become Man? Physics must work as a rule, but there are times when uncertainty gets big enough and you can bend the rules? God doesnt 'add' rules but elaborates the previous ones?

Who gnos. What if God was making it up as he went along? Wouldn't that be a lot like what Petey does?

Ephrem Antony Gray said...

Er, I mean that with all due respect to The Dude.

Anonymous said...

Petey does not "make it up" as he goes along, except in the sense that he spontaneously riffs on the eternal chords fed to us by the Divine Composer. No chords, no riffing.

Lisa said...

As the lone Jew, I just get over my difficulties with the whole idea of Jesus as Christ by substituting the word God whenever someone here writes or mentions Christ or Jesus. It seems to work well so far. And if I'm missing something about it then I'm not even aware of it so it can't matter that much! ha ha!

Anonymous said...

Yumm, yumm, another lipsmacking Meat-meal served up by Pneumachef Bob. Park not ye brain at the door, all who enter here.

Best quality ingredients, prepared well, not mucked-up with a heavy sauce to cover nor featured with a ridiculous novelty salsa made of inappropriate combinations.

Let's hear it for honest food that builds muscle & health: eat everyday at the OC Cafe

Ephrem Antony Gray said...

Yeah, God Improvises is a better way t' put it...

Er, I tend to think that God's goodness itself is why he makes things consistent enough. If he wasn't going to make principles and rules for stuff he wouldn't have bothered with this whole Cosmos thing. The phrase 'half-assin' it' ain't in His lexicon..

Though the idea that he is 'creating it as he goes along' probably has some truth to it. Some things only come into being because of the things that preceded them.

Improvisation actually has a kind of spiritual quality to it, it is an explicit chaos/uncertainty existing over top of an implicit order. Because the order allows for uncertainty the improvisation 'goes wherever it wills' and still sticks with the rules. Bein' in that place where every note you play is right!

Ephrem Antony Gray said...

Er, not to double post ridiculously much, but it occurred to me that you can only have melody with harmony because harmonies allow for uncertainty, i.e, dissonance, neighbor tones, suspensions, inversions, and so forth. Without this you would not have a melody at all; just the same three chords over and over...

Anonymous said...

"I find the most consistently "full" elaboration of this hyperdimensional object to abide within Orthodoxy"

A point I've only recently understood as a difference between eastern and western christianity is that eastern orthodoxy is absolutely prepared to leave mysteries undefined - leaving room for the vertical and transcendent to enter our lives. As an example, the Nicene Creed was seen by the west as defining our faith whereas in the east, it was seen as fighting heresy (defining our not faith) and leaving room for the hyperdimensional to enter in.

It is a fundamental mindset difference.

Gagdad Bob said...

Cooncur!

Suffice it to say that no music has the type of "stacked" harmonic complexity of Western classical and modern jazz.

Having said that, it is amazing the realties that can be disclosed by something as "simple" as tone or timbre. Sometimes just the "sound" speaks volumes, which is the secret of much good rock music. All of the great groups have a unique and immediately recognizable sound-signature. I think this has implications for certain simple saints who are able to communicate God even if their words are technically nonsense.

Gagdad Bob said...

I was cooncuring with River, but I also cooncur with Alan. I agree about the unsaturated mystery. Very good.

Anonymous said...

"I suppose my bottom line -- and this will no doubt smell blasfumy to some -- is that Christianity can be true, but it cannot surpass Truth."


Bitter medicine. :)

Ephrem Antony Gray said...

I prefer my coffee unsweetened.

Anonymous said...

"Well begun is half done, which means, lets tidy up the nursery.

Kids: It is a game isn't Marry Poppins?

MP: We'll, it depends on your point of view. You see, in every job that must be done, there is an element of fun; find the fun and, snap, the jobs a game."

Or, maybe, an adventure.

The question is: fun--what is it, and what is it about?

I'm sure this is nonsense. Never mind me.

Anonymous said...

Notice that the nursery self-organizes as soon as the fun is found.

And what could the nursery symbolize?

Still rambling...

Anonymous said...

"I prefer my coffee unsweetened."

Well. I prefer mine with sweetness and light.

Anonymous said...

"All of us are capable of receiving salvation, though some of us will require something deeper (more 'water' for a bigger jar) to come to the realization of what it is we're dealing with. Thus the more intelligent (who are 'rich' in a sense) have a more difficult time with Christ than the simple."

I hear ya, River. My thimble full just ain't cutting it. ; ) Many great points you made. And where the heck were you when I starting digging this hole anyway??

Bob, there's no argument and I'm by no means put off. Like Julie and River and most others here at OC, we're able to draw the parallels and your points are very clear. There's a reason why we come here. What's true is true is true. And you bring up many great points today.

What you symbolize as (Pi) (I don't have the symbol on my keyboard), the part of us that recognizes divine truth/message, or (n), I would venture to say is God's imprint or likeness within us. It is the capacity for Him to abide in each of us that I would call faith and grace which are gifts freely given, but nurtured or neglected by us. If not nurtured, it can wilt and die.

Submitting to What Is, God, or Reality is necessary and mandatory. If not in this lifetime, then the next. But granted, in this world we all put up resistance to different degrees. Even believers. We are a fallen people afterall. And only if God Himself, or (Pi), is able to help you see it and give you the grace necessary can you begin to submit. As River said, it most likely is a gradual process. This is due to our own sin and finite natures not because God withholds Himself. How's that working out for me? It's a daily thing, River. As slow and gradual as you might imagine. "It's a cold and a very broken Hallelujuah". But people can have instant transformations like that of Paul on the road to Damascus and those of some of the early martyrs, and what then of our own capacity for understanding? You can know all about electricity, but surely will be taken by surprise when lightening strikes you in the butt. It's rare but it happens.

I do think that faith can precede understanding and (n), though. In other words, a parent tells a child to do something, or not do something, and the child may not understand why the parent is telling him that. Even if he doesn't understand, it's in his best interest to trust the parent.(If indeed the parent is trust worthy) That's why trusting things on authority from Christ or the Church isn't a bad thing IF you're a Christian. We should have complete confidence save for the accidentals and the factoring in of human weakness. Which is to say, the (Pi) ball that has already been put in motion, is helped to stay in motion through submission and obedience to authoratative truth even when our moods and disposition start to resist. I think in our culture today there's a real dislike for things like submission and obedience, but it can nurture and inform the capacity for (Pi) and (n).

I think the confusion we may have run into here, Bob, is with our choices of language and the fact that I suddenly found myself in the ring with an intellectual heavyweight. I had no intention of getting into this. This all started with greybeard's comment about Christianity grafting the philosophy of reincarnation into it, which is impossible. But anyway...

I think our only real point of departure is that I believe Christ to be True God and True Man. Not a manifestation of God within or the Cosmic Christ or Christ Consciousness Realized. Whatever way you want to break it down, that's it for me.

I wish I could have touched on specific points you made but I'm running short on time and my baby is losing patience with me.

Have a good day all!

Anonymous said...

The acid test for Christianity is if it is needed after death.

Presumably death results in the merging of the separated soul with God in some more numinous aspect than in terrestrial existence. God's presence should be more obvious and palpable, and hence less may have to be said or thought about It/Him/Her/Us (God).

If one still needs Christ after one enters the home of Christ, that would be a curious thing. The Father would be at hand and would be the one you would deal with.

James said...

Robin,

Beautiful Haiku.

Bob,

You do make too much sense.

Anonymous said...

Whopper: CS Lewis called this world the Shadowlands - everything that exists here is a three-dimensional shadow of something that really exists, in its perfect Platonic-ideal form, in the Kingdom of God. The Buddhists understand also that this world is only an illusion - but old Jack would say it's not so much an illusion as a reflected image. This is the real world, but Heaven is the Real World... there's nothing more real than O when you get up close and personal with Him. (And I say "Him" because I'm a Catholic - calling O "It" seems needlessly im-Personal... although if you think about it, O really is it in the sense of the slang phrase. O is where It's at.)

We will not "need" O in Heaven because we will HAVE Him - we'll be wading through Him right up to our necks, if not higher. We will be united with O, but we will still be ourselves - in fact, even MORE like ourselves than we are capable of being on this plane of existence...not enslaved to Him or subsumed within Him, but still In Him.

Shoot. My supply of transcendental jive is running low. I'll get back to it later, I suppose.

Anonymous said...

Alan said:
"A point I've only recently understood as a difference between eastern and western christianity is that eastern orthodoxy is absolutely prepared to leave mysteries undefined - leaving room for the vertical and transcendent to enter our lives."

I am new to Roman Catholicism, but during Mass at some point around the communion, our priest says something like, "Let us contemplate the mysteries of our faith." I take that to mean that there are mysteries that we can't fathom and that it is a good thing to wonder at it, but maybe I am reading it wrong.

Leslie (Mrs. G)

NoMo said...

But Christianity is ALL ABOUT FAITH, both BC and AD.

And yes, Leslie, the mystery IS Christ. At least that is what Paul believed.

Van Harvey said...

"I suppose my bottom line -- and this will no doubt smell blasfumy to some -- is that Christianity can be true, but it cannot surpass Truth. While the human mind is "made of truth," it only exists in potential until it is realized. Once you walk the blank into God's arbor and your wood beleaf, the coonundrum ends and the Great Mystery begins. And it is a "mystery in motion," otherwise known as an adventure -- the only one that really Is and has ever been: the adventure of consciousness. Don't listen to the others, most of all me. Just follow the depth, for O is nothing if not deep. "

Between working late and piddling with some very horizontal trolls on the "Liberal Fascism" Amazon site (yeah, I've about had my fill), that sure was delicious and refreshing.

"Today perhaps I'll alienate the rest, and finally have some solitude."

Yeah. Dare to dream.

Hey, I've got fewer readers than you do... ...nyah...nyah...nyah...nyah...nyah!

Anonymous said...

Leslie:

You are correct.

Let me clarify - my point was on emphasis rather than an absolute dividing line between the eastern and western churches.

Our western minds, however, will tend to skip over the opening, as we come at things from cartesian and legalistic worldviews.

I'm Roman Catholic and all of the depth/height is there, at least in potentiality (imho). My struggle has been growing enough to be able to see glimpses of it. I second Bob's statements about the variations of Christianity being necessary to even approach fully unfolding the Christian message - but, again imho, the Christian message is most fully carried forward in the RC and Orthodox traditions (even if most of its members and leadership don't realize it! :-)

Anonymous said...

Having a chance to look over some of the points you made today...

"Not to be pedantic about it, but there must be such a thing as Christianity, or we wouldn't be able to recognize it..."

Glad you point that out, although, I think we missed each other in passing. I know what you're saying and that would be impossible, like the time theory you gave. What I meant was that unlike most other religions and philosophies, no one invented and Christ didn't establish Christianity. He established His Church. It's not a religion or philosophy developed out of contemplation on the Divine, but rather the Divine Revelation given to humankind...

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"But many Christians are eventually put off by my neo-Vedantin orientation, not to mention my esoteric and Hermetic understanding of Christianity."

S'okay Bob. I never even heard of that band 'till you brought 'em up.
Sure, they ain't everyone's cup O grog, but ol' Skully is down wit dat.
For you young kits lookin' to learn more about Bob's favorite band, Hermetica, go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/
wiki/Herm%C3%A9tica

"Skully! He meant hermetics, not Hermetica!"

Huh?! Are you sure? Bob can be pretty bobscure, you know.
'Sides, ain't no band called hermetics.

"?!"

They make more sense after a few grogs.

USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"Once you walk the blank into God's arbor and your wood beleaf, the coonundrum ends and the Great Mystery begins. And it is a "mystery in motion," otherwise known as an adventure -- the only one that really Is and has ever been: the adventure of consciousness."

It's not just a job.
Sorry folks, I hadta try some O that reverse imagineering.

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