Don't worry, I'm not going to dwell on it, but the following brief exercise in troll-slappin' carries with it an important lesson -- as indeed, a proper troll slappin' must always do in order to be considered righteous. Even Hoarhey never pulls his 33 oz. cluebat from the shelf unless it is for the troll's own good -- a cluebat mitzvah, as it were.
Yes, Hoarhey always "leaves a mark" -- or shall we say, a crack -- but this crack is the fissure of men which eventually lets in the light. It is the hole in the head that would allow for a whole new head, if only the prideful troll would humble himself before the fiery Club of Truth and "take what he has coming" -- which consists of a screaming loon-drive right up the middle of his disordered soul. But the odd thing about a troll is that he actually prefers the blows of the devil's riding crop, mainly because he has become insensitive to their sting.
Yes, while he was resting his eyes -- no, he assures me that he was not asleep -- another midnight namanasty, MHL, slipped through Dupree's troll-booth and expressed his metaphysical disappointment at our "polarizing" ways:
"Well Bob it's been a trip."
That's good, because -- I've never mentioned this before, but it's true -- I do actually try to maintain a certain trippy psychedelicized tone around here. In fact, far from being a Sixties-basher, or sextaphobic, I feel that I am one of the few blogs that truly maintains the spirit of '67, only in a healthy and sustainable way. Perhaps someday I'll devote an entire post to fleshing out what I mean, since it is possible that 95% of you have no idea what I'm talking about. Indeed, it is possible that you had to be 11 years old in 1967 to get it.
In other words, you had to internalize a certain... gay cultural vibe, but have been too young and innocent to be sucked into the spiritually dark and destructive political side of it all. As Will has mentioned, there was definitely a light, a spiritual force, that was at work back then, but it was quickly overwhelmed by darkness.
Many people who are a few years older than I am are still stuck in the darkness of that time -- various aging hippies, political nostalgiacs, professional radicals, and backward-looking progressives. We would say that they were more to be pitied than censured if they didn't have some real political sway. A Dennis Kucinich, for example, embodies the "frivolous darkness" of the time, what with his maliciously goofy call for a governmental "Department of Peace." Unfortunately, he was 21 in 1967, which makes all the difference. He is trapped in darkness, like many of his sub-generation of booby-blamers -- Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Al Gore, et al.
Anyway,
"Having enjoyed your interview on WIE magazine's site I was keenly interested to read your recent work."
Good! How did it go?
"I have been doing so for about two weeks now."
Hmm. That's not enough time to cure what fails you, but go on.
"On the positive, your thoughts have served to remind me not to sacrifice my own integrity in alliance with any political polarity. A good reminder in polarized times."
I see. Sorchasm -- that is, the sorry chasm that exists between my ideas and your understanding of them. You shouldn't leave just yet, for what is a bad man but a good man's teacher? We have so much more to learn from you!
"In general, your comments have been a great disappointment. Evidently you are experiencing and expressing some great energetic flow but you should question it's source. Your realization, as evident in your language, lacks depth. In particular in this final and really quite bizzare exploration of 'evil hating' and your childish game logic interchange (sic) with 'Drama Queen'. But then, this is your path and role for now. I however have heard enough and will bid your site farewell. Best to you."
Namasté to you too, my love-and-peacive-aggressive friend! And the horse you rode in on!
I might have let this troll slither off in sssilence had it not been for this excellent slapshot from the clueline by Skully, who said to MHL,
"I see. So integrity means being a fence-sitting moderate to you. In other words, you don't take a stand on anything controversial. How courageous of you. How lukewarm. Truth is always polarizing to those who are blind to it, or to those who don't have the moxy to bear the standard."
Yes, precisely. This is the lesson for yet another angry sub-integralist masqmarauding as a gentle integralist. In reality, he has integrated nothing -- meaning the substance of nothing -- because of his drawing back from the sword of truth, which cuts the world right down the middle. He has chosen his side -- or shall we say, it has chosen him, so he doesn't even realize the polarized state of his soul.
Folks, I pray that I am polarizing, because if I am, it means that I am aligned with Truth. On the other hand, the Lie is seductive. It is enveloping, intoxic-ating, "embracing" -- to internalize the Lie is, in the words of the one-time Eastern Orthodox George Costanza, to be ensconced in velvet.
And it is very difficult to "cut" such an individual with the sword of truth, because it is like cutting into gelatin: the cut "seals up" as soon as the sword has entered. The mind of such an individual is as loose as ashes in the wind (TW: Ian Tyson).
Can we all at least agree that spiritual Truth exists? And that religion represents the science of Spirit? "Science" comes from the Latin scindere, to cut, as in scission or schism. Thus, for example, He will repay my enemies for their evil. Cut them off in Your truth (Psalm: 54:5). Only after the "discrimination" of truth has occurred, can there be any higher integration.
It seems that no matter how hard I try, I cannot convince a certain type of spiritual moonbat that Truth exists and that it cuts human beings -- both individually and collectively -- right down the middle. Truth has none of the qualities leftists revere: it is not inclusive. It discriminates, big time. It is intolerant of falsehood. It cannot be watered down in order make people feel good about themselves. It is not diplomatic and it is not a respecter of feelings.
This is too perfect (TW: Mysteress Joan). The band Rage Against the Machine recently reunited for a very principled Bourgeois Lifestyle Maintenance Tour. On stage, their singer "railed [doesn't he mean "raged?"] against the war [machine?] in Iraq and likened Bush administration officials to Nazi war criminals":
"This current administration is no exception. They should be tried and hung and shot," he said.
Lest you think that this was a "polarizing" message, guitarist Tom Morello wore a hat with the word "UNITY" on it. After all, a lynching is UNITY minus one.
One "sweat-drenched" history teacher in attendance, Mr. Ramon, enthused that "They changed my life. They made me a liberal!"
Cool! Just what we need, history taught by more people whose political ideology forbids them to enter it.
And just how are you liberals going to shoot the administration with no guns? Oh well, worry about that later....
Later in the evening, that luminous intellect, Flea, bellowed from the stage, "Everything is beautiful! Love and peace is in all our hearts!"
It's true. This is what peace and love look like when they are "wrongly ordered," which is to say, not tempered by truth. The dark side of 1967, don't you know.
Darn, very little time this morning. I'll just conclude with some lines from a poem Sri Aurobindo wrote in 1940, but which equally apply today:
"We march to make of earth a hell and call it heaven....
We mock at God, we have silenced the mutter of priests at his altar....
We have made the mind a cypher, we have strangled Thought with a cord....
A cross of the beast and demoniac with the godhead of power and will,
We are born in humanity's sunset, to the Night is our pilgrimage....
We march, lit by Truth's death-pyre, to the world's satanic age."
Namasté!
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Theme Song
107 comments:
We march by the light of a different drummer,
We listen to the lamps that hang in the heavens,
We see the words of the voice of the One
And rest we will, when our work is done.
---
"In other words, you had to internalize a certain... gay cultural vibe, but have been too young and innocent to be sucked into the obvious dark and destructive side of it all. As Will has mentioned, there was definitely a light, a spiritual force, that was at work back then, but it was quickly overwhelmed by darkness."
I recall experiencing a small bit of this when originally listening to the Beatles; but it is consumed by an eccentric darkness, a weird romanticism.
Like somewhere in there is that playfulness of Mozart, but it is stamped out by the pain of Schoenberg all in one sitting.
And real folk music is so beautiful. It is amazing how things can become so twisted.
Pop-Up Toon
what did you expect
some lying snake in the grass
that's desthpicable!
-----------------------
tw to julie 'duckhorn paraduxx' cork...
"In other words, you had to internalize a certain... gay cultural vibe, but have been too young and innocent to be sucked into the obvious dark and destructive side of it all. As Will has mentioned, there was definitely a light, a spiritual force, that was at work back then, but it was quickly overwhelmed by darkness."
I was six years old during the Summer of Love, and know just what you mean, O Gagster. Since my parents were old beatniks who were sympathetic to a lot of the hippie aesthetics and ideals, I absorbed much of their idealistic and spiritual buzz, but (thankfully!) rejected New Left hate politics as soon as I became immersed in them.
The "darkness", IMHO, came from many places: the exploitation of naive and frightened kids by agitators like Jerry Rubin and the Diggers; the disorienting effects of repeated LSD use; the pollution of the drug culture with amphetamine abuse and its attendant psychoses; the growth of authoritatian cults ranging from the Krishnas to the Manson Family; and (yes) the overreaction to the strange new counterculture by cops and mainstream types.
Of course, the era's cynics and realists saw it coming. Check out Frank Zappa's scathing WE'RE ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY, or the early Doors albums, for darker views of what the hippie world was producing.
My math skills are weak, Cross bestowed by public education, not sure if this is algebra or calculus. Regardless, a mathematical equation I configured to illustrate the folly and damage sustained by libtard thought. Recent too.
(State House demtards + animal rights whackjobs + trial lawyers) x (elevation/codification of pet status akin to family member) + (chicom poison pet food) > ($$veterinarian's deep pockets$$) - (malpractice/liability insurance) + ($$WalMart #1 retailer of chicom poison pet food$$) = (you, your pet, vets and WalMart are screwed)2
The practical, known extensions are unbelievable. Wait until the law of unintended consequences takes effect. Who get hurts? Oh, usual suspects, the poor, the elderly, children, highly skilled people who bring technical services to the table, ya know like that. ;~\ !
aquila--
Very gratifying that someone knows exactly what I'm talking about!
Wonderful job on the Yeats poem, River. I tracked back from here and, after reading what you left behind, found myself wondering why I had so much less common sense when I was your age.
Which goes to prove Bob's point about those of us born a little earlier than he. To be 19 in '67 was to get swept up in a great wave -- really a maelstrom -- the romance of which continued to blind me for thirty years and the resulting confusion only recently lifting.
Now, I live in an upscale neighborhood in a blue state, largely populated by people my age. It's the land of a thousand insane bumper stickers. Forget the forward-looking Kennedy/Johnson ones. Yesterday, there was this: "Don't believe everything you think."
What does that mean? Who believes everything they think, anyway? And how removed from the real world and cogent thought do you need to be to put that on your car for all the world to see? Somehow, though, it seems derivative of the "question authority" meme from back then.
Anyway, I found the Yeats, and your comments, and Morrison's "In the Garden" to be a welcome antidote to the pull-your-hair-out conversations I have with most of my cohort.
There are times I envy the clarity of my grandfather’s generation. It may have been a bit harsh and rough in its judgments, but that generation was willing to call evil by its name, fix their eyes upon it and arm up. Their enemy and their tasks were clear. It was so because, as the good Doctor reminds us, the sword of spiritual truth cleaves the world into truth and falsehood, right and wrong. The white-haired octogenarian in the slow-moving Buick ahead of you, like the rest of his generation, knew how to wield that sword like a Templar. We were a nation of such masters once.
Now our nation is driven by a generation who refused to sit at the feet of their masters, who abandoned the sword and the skills that preserved our culture for millennia. They institutionalized adolescent rebellion and the ethical relativity that warps discernment and kills judgment. Faced with a collection of anachronistic thugs who scream in the streets their fervent desire to destroy us, the Left slides their moral scale a bit seeking an understanding, an accommodation of that darkness. As the scale slides further and further from the light of truth there will be nothing to see.
The fall of darkness is ushered in by progressive shades of gray.
As an aside- Now that I’ve mustered the guts necessary to comment, I just wanted to state my heartfelt thanks to the many lights of this forum and to its founder. It’s sweet to drink from a clear spring in the wasteland.
“It seems that no matter how hard I try, I cannot convince a certain type of spiritual moonbat that Truth exists and that it cuts human beings -- both individually and collectively -- right down the middle.”
No surprise, Bob. Scripture is filled with troll-like stubbornness or hardness of heart. It seems that we can choose the lie and it’s horizontal “happiness and freedom” so often, to such a degree, and with such determination that it can ultimately become next to impossible for us to believe the Truth. (Psalm 81:11-13, Romans 1:18-32, etc.). Jeremiah 7:24 says, “Yet they did not obey or incline their ear, but walked in their own counsels and in the stubbornness of their evil heart, and went backward and not forward.” I wonder if it’s that backward shuffle that stimulates the growth of so much hair on the feet of a troll.
Today's post may have been short, but was exceedingly sweeet.
"Truth has none of the qualities leftists revere: it is not inclusive. It discriminates, big time. It is intolerant of falsehood. It cannot be watered down in order make people feel good about themselves. It is not diplomatic and it is not a respecter of feelings."
and
"And it is very difficult to "cut" such an individual with the sword of truth, because it is like cutting into gelatin: the cut "seals up" as soon as the sword has entered. The mind of such an individual is as loose as ashes in the wind (TW: Ian Tyson)."
Very well put.
After reading Joan of Argghh!'s comment link in yesterday's comments, I commented" I put up a Short post of links, as antidote to the grotesque article Joan of Argghh! linked to."
Helps wash away the lingering stench that comes with the thought of a history (History!) teacher saying that "They changed my life. They made me a liberal," said sweat-drenched history teacher Rafael Ramon, 25..."
wv:qkkcyphr - (sometimes that thing is spooky)
Bob,
Superb, as usual...
When you talked about the etymology of the word science my inner Latin pedant perked up her ears, and I thought, No, Bob, it's from scire, to know!.
But lo and behold, the old inner pedant was only half-right (as is too often the case!).
Below clipped (emphasis mine)from Merriam-Webster Unabridged Online, a great site to which all should subscribe:
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin scientia knowledge, science, from scient-, sciens (present participle of scire to know) + -ia -y; akin to Latin scindere to cut, split -- more at SHED
Jamie Irons
Thanks for the comment, maineman. Most of the time I'm just writing to write and not certain if anyone reads it. It is excellent to hear it brightened someone's day as it did mine.
This is a geek point, but..
"And it is very difficult to "cut" such an individual with the sword of truth, because it is like cutting into gelatin: the cut "seals up" as soon as the sword has entered. The mind of such an individual is as loose as ashes in the wind (TW: Ian Tyson)."
If I recall correctly, isn't one supposed to use a blunt weapon or a +1 or greater weapon against gelatins?
GLASR,
I like the formula, just need to start it off with an IF
"IF (State House demtards..."
and you '=' with a '= True Then',
so using an X as a variable for the portion of your formula prior to the '=', you'll have a
IF X = True Then (you, your pet, vets and WalMart are screwed)2
End IF
I think that'll compile.
(Note to C++ people...phbbpptt!!!)
Bolt said "It’s sweet to drink from a clear spring in the wasteland."
Shoot your latest bolt right back at ya, well said, well spoken, welcome.
NoMo said "I wonder if it’s that backward shuffle that stimulates the growth of so much hair on the feet of a troll."
Well it sure ain't Walk 'n Roll Pilates! (Hi Lisa)
bolt - good to hear that you also found the cajones. As for me, I was the guy who kept raising his hand in class, so displaying my ignorance for all comes naturally to me...
River said "As for me, I was the guy who kept raising his hand in class, so displaying my ignorance for all comes naturally to me... "
My Dad used to ask the dumbest questions, he'd ask them of anybody he was talking to, and he'd talk to anybody, and make the dumbest comments, listen to what the person said, and ask even dumber questions and make even dumber comments... it was so embarrassing... and pretty soon - he was the one everybody was coming to for help in understanding what was going on.
Took me along time to figure out how he did that. Congrats on figuring it out sooner than I did.
For a snicker and a larf, check out the current 40th anniversary issue of Rolling Stone, which features an interview-parade of 60's relics, most of them bemoaning the dreadful fact that their brand of liberation hasn't quite caught on with the world, not completely.
Some, Dylan, McCartney, Jagger, eg., just talk music and general culture. But then there's Fonda, Carter, Nicholson, Mailer, the utterly risible Jackson Browne,etc., totally fossilized in 60's self-congratulatory narcissism.
I was not a part of (but was wading hip-deep in) the Summer of Love, living at Ground Zero, a few blocks from Golden Gate Park. There was indeed "a certain trippy psychedelicized tone" to much that went on, whether you were participating in it, or not.
For some of us, the "spirit of '67" was born (as Bob mentioned also) of a certain innocence, but one that was YEARNING FOR TRUTH. The "innocence" was naive, and part of being young - but it was the truth-seeking that made it seem a different time, and "special," in its way.
Of course, there was a big shadow-side to it all, even in the beginning. I saw a LOT of broken, and desperate people. For many, the innocence and truth-seeking was very brief, quickly crushed by those who wished to "organize it" to their own agendas. Much of the parapernalia, trappings, and lifestyle glorified by the "hippy types" was a direct extension of the beatniks, whose philosophy was openly Marxist.
Not everyone got stuck there, but this culture is STILL weathering the effects, big-time, 40 years later.
A clueless moonbat stuck in 1967.
Where is Patton when you need him?
"I won't allow this yellow-bellied traitor to stink up this place of honor."
Hi Van,
Yes, unfortunately, leftards and moonbats are drawn to me and my work like a moth to a flame! Boy, do they get a shock when they try to blame Bush for their horrible posture and funny gait! ;) I still try to help them though in the hopes that once they elongate and physically reach a more vertical position, perhaps their mental state will start to become more vertical as well. Then the real work begins....
Why is it so difficult to find a truly upright biped?
gravity and a big heavy inflated head!
forgot to add a head that looks down and not ahead!
Ahead not a head style?
wv: huhpoct!
By the way, moonbats should not get angry at B'ob, for no one is more "pro-moonbat" than he is. He supports the moonbats, just not their mission.
Leftist look at the NBA:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basketball/nba/05/02/bc.bkn.refereebias.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
"If I recall correctly, isn't one supposed to use a blunt weapon or a +1 or greater weapon against gelatins?"
I believe you are correct; also, it's best to protect yourself/ stuff against the potential acid burns...
okay, that's enough of my inner geek for one day :)
eqtyxlk - wv apparently has an opinion on Glasr's Theorem
You know, it has happened before, or at least rhymed before - the 60's that is.
Only the last time wasn't here, it was in europe, and they too had their guitar toting, free-love preaching hippies, only they were called 'Romantics', and it was a movement that swept the conservatives out the door. They didn't have beats like Ginsberg, their's were enormously better - they had Lord Byron and Shelley, and Goethe (read his "Sorrows of young Werther" and see if you can't see what was coming next), their Timothy Leary might be Nietzsche. Their Elvis was named Mozart, their Beatles were Beethoven - but it soon began rolling downhill towards Shoenberg in a hurry.
In many ways their personages were much greater than ours, makes ours seem much cruder, more forceful, more explicitly horizontal... and their generation soon 'grew up' too, and took over power... makes you worry a bit about what might be waiting in the wings as our standin for Hitler - I tell you what though, it sure ain't Bush.
Quickenings... anybody?
bolt -
No need to envy the clarity of your grandfather's generation, as it has clearly passed intact to you.
You reminded me again of my wonderful grandfather who I try to emulate more the older I get. He was quiet and strong and taught by example. He was just what I needed to balance my father, who tried to fill me with words I was unwilling to hear. I could go fishing with him, sit in a boat for hours with little need to speak, and what I learned surpassed many books.
He fought in the Canadian Forces in WW1, was captured and spent 2 years in a POW camp. He and 2 of his buddies escaped but his best friend was killed in the attempt. We still have the letter of commendation he received from King George V.
I've told this story before, so I'll let it be. But thanks for the reminder to treat our elders with great respect, and to pass along some of that wisdom to the next generation.
B'ob, my wife and I thank you for the nice Nitty Gritty Finetune surprise this weekend - "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere" is 'our song.' ;-)
wv: oozovug (greek table dance?)
River Cocytus wv said: huhpoct!
Who knew WordVerif spoke Klingon?!
The exquisite verbalization, through rational thought platitudes, of an internal spiritual resonance is quite refreshing. I applaud the hemispheric cooperation that allows this medium to be so pregnant with multilayers of meaning that describe the human hologram. write on brother (right, rite also implied)
Folks,
D&D, Anime, and creativity. I'm home.
Bob,
33 oz. is a bit light. Wouldn't want to get around on a trool too quickly and slice it deeper into foul territory. ;^)
Cosanostradamus,
Great story about your grandfather. I’m glad you were able to carry a part of his character in yourself. My grandfather lived in another state, so I missed out on those fishing trips. However, for much of my childhood we lived next door to a WWI vet. Mr. McKiever (well into his seventies when I was a kid) would let me hang around as he and his buddies talked about the war and the great depression. I would sit for hours, simply amazed at what this old group of guys had gone through.
Half baked mystic,
I'm sorry. English is a remarkable language. But I've just graduated from grad school hell. I've learned a lot during school, but not the things the teachers were trying to teach me. One thing I've learned is that no matter how good of a thinker you are, even if you have the best ideas on the planet. If you can't communicate what your saying clearly to the majority of people your ideas are basically worthless. I'm still trying to overcome my grad speak and, even worse grad writing. So instead of this:
The exquisite verbalization, through rational thought platitudes, of an internal spiritual resonance is quite refreshing. I applaud the hemispheric cooperation that allows this medium to be so pregnant with multilayers of meaning that describe the human hologram. write on brother (right, rite also implied)
You can say
I really like the spiritual ideas and comments expressed in this blog. It's refreshing to see a blog that has this level of depth. The internet is a miracle because it allows all kinds of people to come together and discuss the human condition. (This place reminds me of what church should be. Reading this blog is like a religious rite?)
Not sure if I got the last part right but in ordinary communication there is no need to be mysterious. Just tell us what you mean clearly. Divine communication is another matter entirely, but in order to write this way you have to cultivate a close relationship to the divine. I've just started on the road of Christianity, so I know I am not qualified. From what you say I don't think you are qualified ether. I understand you have good things to say about this place, but you can stay it clearly. Google "The Underground Grammarian" It will cure you of your language woes.
Mozart wasn’t a romantic, he was a purely Classical composer. Beethoven stood as sort of a colossus between the Classical and Romantic eras (as did Monteverdi between the Renaissance and the Baroque … if I remember my Grout correctly). The romantic composers generally lacked the "grounding" (or discipline, if you will) of Beethoven or Mozart, and thus are rightly not reckoned as highly by, er, people like me.
To mention Elvis in the same breath with Mozart is a grave sin, my son, the like of which, absent repentance, is the folly which leads to perdition.
Will alluded to the "magnetizing" aspects of the extremes of both sides during the ongoing "quickening" process....
The dark side has ever-increasing fear as it's energy base with anger/rage/envy etc. as the primary expressions. These people take to the streets to force it and themselves down others throats all the while congratulating themselves on their Righteousness.
The side of Light, as it pulls us toward It's extreme, uses the energy we call Love.By filling our hearts and bodies with this Light our presence alone can, energetically, offset the other side.I've never seen conservatives demonstrate or force their agenda .
This blog, the internet, AM radio and market run TV allow the Light to be available to those who want it, voluntarily.
i think 'hate' is a misunderstood word. To the trolls I'd offer the immortal words of Inigo Montoya "I don't think it means what you think it means"
Moving towards the Light necessarily involves self mastery and anger is more a fear derivative and so Jesus wouldn't be advocating that. perhaps it is more of a position word when used Biblically.
My embrace of the Absolute is so( or should/could be) profound that tolerating anything not Good, True or Beautiful is impossible.Harsh? perhaps, but then i must have missed the easy train to the LightStation.
So, back to bumper stickers. Does anyone know where I can get one that says "Teach Intolerance"?
late convert said...
"Mozart wasn’t a romantic, he was a purely Classical composer"
Technically true... but you can't really say that Classical before Mozart was the same as Classical after Mozart... can you? He brought big changes. Cosa?
"Beethoven stood as sort of a colossus between the Classical and Romantic eras..." I think Beethoven was more than betweeen... wasn't he the first foot in the door? Through the door? Through the door in a Dupree looking for the murphy bed sort of way?
"The romantic composers generally lacked the "grounding" (or discipline, if you will) of Beethoven or Mozart..." absolutely correct there (hence "downhill towards Shoenberg in a hurry").
"To mention Elvis in the same breath with Mozart is a grave sin, my son, the like of which, absent repentance, is the folly which leads to perdition."
(I mostly agree with you, meant it more in the way of cultural flash-point, than musical skills, but shh... you'll wake Dupree)
wv: liffe - I kid you not
hmm... maybe Beethoven & Wagner, rather than Mozart & Beethoven?
... 'Rool over Beethoven! Hoo!'...
shutting up now.
Technically true... but you can't really say that Classical before Mozart was the same as Classical after Mozart... can you? He brought big changes. Cosa?
He was the apogee the and epitome, the alpha and omega, as it were. Not for nothing did Wagner call him "the divine Mozart."
I think Beethoven was more than betweeen... wasn't he the first foot in the door?
He was a Romantic in terms of "Sturm und Drang" but structurally his music was more sound than that of the Romantics, who were "all about the Sturm and Drang, man." (I generalize a bit.)
Actually, there are a number of people who say that Beethoven's late string quartets foreshadowed the twentieth century, so perhaps he was a bridge even beyond the Romantic.
Re, "first foot in the door:" in order to stand as a "colossus between the Classical and the Romantic," he'd sort of have to have one foot in both, yeah?
Personally, while I know the history, the 'era-ization' is just a construct and nothing more, used to make a general description of the music involved.
It is by no means exhaustive or highly accurate; there are bach fugues where you can find 'Romantic' chords - and it was 'Baroque'!
Romanticism was a 'counter-cultural' movement as can be seen in much of the poetry of both the Americans and all so clearly in the poetry of the Euros. For the Americans we were to much our own people to really be 'swept' - we were poisoned by it, sure, but we really were more of observers and commenters. Our response was a kind of 'simple romanticism' like Thoreau et al. It was not crazy and bohemian like the Euro variety.
Likewise, Mozart's playfulness and counter-cultural tendancy (Marriage of Figaro?) mark him as a lynchpin in the movement towards Romanticism. This is not, of course, to blame Wolf.
In this sense he is kind of like Elvis - one of the old guard who is nonetheless stepping towards the 'new'.
Or, that's mah opinion ohn it.
Late Convert said "He was a Romantic in terms of "Sturm und Drang""
That was what I was talking about, more than musically... still....
Re, "first foot in the door:" in order to stand as a "colossus between the Classical and the Romantic," he'd sort of have to have one foot in both, yeah?"
I think you've got me there.
It is by no means exhaustive or highly accurate; there are bach fugues where you can find 'Romantic' chords - and it was 'Baroque'!
Yeah, but as I'm sure you know, the fugue was a Baroque form, and the use of counterpoint as a primary compositional technique was really what separated the Baroque from the Classical.
Of course, both Beethoven and Mozart employed contrapuntal techniques...
River said "In this sense he is kind of like Elvis - one of the old guard who is nonetheless stepping towards the 'new'"
And in my initial comment, I was talking more about something new and magical and gay in the air, as opposed to the darkness which followed.
James said:
D&D, Anime, and creativity. I'm home.
Indeed. I nearly introduced myself yesterday when things turned toward Big O and DNZ, but I chickened out.
But, now we can add "Discussions of the merits of various composers of the European tradition" to it!
Oh, Marvelous Mozart!
Beautiful Bach!
Plentiful (and Pretty) Palestrina!
Joyous Josquin (de Pres)!
Gregory--The Great!
Takes me back to my Music History courses back in college. . . *sigh*
awesome
PIMF: DBZ. . .
D'oh! (That's what preview is for!)
Thud headline of the day:
"MOVIEGOERS WARNED OF 'NAUSEA' DURING PITT FLICK 'BABEL'..."
Really. Ya think? A movie of the 'substance of nothing' if there ever was one.
wv: uolvxggg (quick, grab a bucket)
C-o.o-ple of items of interest:
1.) Some fascinationing
thoughts on the "The Seduction of Albert Arnold" and 2.) a review of a book that will not be displayed
in a c-o.o-n's sidebar.
Bob,
Glad to hear you liked my posting.
I like to think that, unlike this columnist, I can discriminate (there's that word again!) between the benevolent or neutral aspects of the Sixties couinterculture, and the ugliness that its politicized and pathological elements produced.
wv: ubooz
booboos corrected:
. . . thoughts . . .
zophiel...
and Lassus and Willaert and Victoria and...
Hmmm..
If you're going to San Francisco
Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair...
I couldn't wait to get there.
1970. I was 17.
My trip to Haight Ashbury. I got hit on by a gay hippie. I almost got robbed by a black soul brother hippie. I got ripped off on a pot deal from a white space brother hippie. It wasn't all bad, though. I got high in Golden Gate park with a bunch of nice folks, and we went to the Hare Krishna parade. But I also found a couple of hits of acid on the floor of a bus. (which is another very long story) A buddy of mine and I went down to Pomponio State beach, and tripped. We were on a desterted stretch of shoreline, and there, in the fog, we saw two girls, naked, playing in the surf. We stopped to watch. They were lesbians.
On my way home I picked up a couple of hippies hitch hiking. They were on their way to some sort of big party in Big Sur. They said I could come. So we stopped a few miles later to get some food at a market on the Coast Highway. I got a can of rvioli, and a few other things to eat, but the hitchhikers, Country and Susan, didn't buy more than a bag of potato chips and a candy bar. We got back in the car and headed South, and the two of them started pulling out of their shirts and pants all this food and stuff that they'd ripped off from The Man. I let them off somewhere around Santa Cruz, and skipped the love in. Drove straight through to Orange county from there. I got home around three or four in the morning, and ate the ravioli before going to bed.
JWM
JWM
Congratulations! You just condensed a Kerouac novel into one paragraph.
jwm -
I was probably one of your hitchhikers. I was 19.
P.S. The Man got me back but good down the road.
Interior: Daytime. GAGDAD BOB answers a knock at his front door. He opens it up to see a shabby HOMELESS MAN.
Homeless: Sir, can I come in and lay down? I feel a little dizzy from my medications.
Gagdad Bob: You smell like alcohol. Are you sure you're not just drunk?
Homeless: Well, yes, that's the truth. I'm drunk. (Vomits on Bob's shoes and collapses at Bob's feet).
GAGDAD BOB seems hesitant, but then pulls the man inside the room by dragging him under his arms. He places a pillow under the man's head. He goes to the telephone and dials 911
Gagdad Bob: Yes, I've got a sick man here. Please send an ambulance.
At this time Bob's friend LESTER THE RACCOON happens by. He looks at the man on the floor, and seems outraged.
Lester the Raccoon: I won't allow this yellow-bellied traitor to stink up this place of honor. Get up, damn you! (kicks the homeless man in the abdomen)
Gagdad Bob: Stop that, Lester. Leave the poor man be.
Lester the Raccoon: But Bob, he's a filthy tramp. He has no self-respect. He's probably a leftist.
Gagdad Bob: Yes, but he's still a human being, and that means we must treat him kindly.
Lester the Raccoon: O.K. That's what I thought all along. I just kicked him because I thought you'd appreciate my hatred of him.
Gagdad Bob: That's not the way it works, Lester. Hatred is to be done only in the abstract. For the human being in front of you, kindness is the only way.
Lester the Raccoon: I'll remember that.
Geez, how does a homeless man get to Calabasas? I find that scenario to be totally implausible in reality. Is it really the homeless Data stuck in a warp continuim?
drama queen, how long do you have to work to write something that stupid?
Isn't there anything else you can think (I suppose that's probably the stumbling block) to do with your time?
drama queen, how long do you have to work to write something that stupid?
I bet it just comes naturally to him.
A more serious note on the whole hippie thing. In the early years it seemed to have something to offer. Especially if you were young, unsure, and needy. Were you a geeky kid? The Hippies loved everyone. Cool was no longer an unattainable commodity. Everyone could posess Cool. Were you just plain young and horny? You could be accomodated. Free Love was better than courting any day. Or did you just want to try all the magical sounding drugs- see colors-get instant enlightenment? Want to go back to the land, and build a new world? Communes, man. Or are you just searchin' for the Truth?
All this stuff was seductive as hell. It drew in the naive and idealistic, and it drew in those who prey upon naive, and idealistic: The pushers, the pimps, the pornographers, and the Marxist politicos. Suddenly there were hookers, and junkies, and speed freaks, Yippies, and Panthers, and SDS. Come for the chicks and the weed, stay for Chicago '68. Some of them haven't left.
JWM
Bob,
Why haven't you mentioned your secret friend, this LESTER?
I mean, we've told you all of OUR secrets!
Zophiel, you mentioned Palestrina...
my choir's next concert is this Sunday, and we'll be singing Palestrina, Gabrielli, and Moses Hogan, among others.
I believe his full name is Lefty Mo Lester.
Apologies to all (especially van and river), but I just can't resist:
Elvis: the musical colossus who stood between the era of Rock 'n' Roll and ... Disco! (You saw Jailhouse Rock, didn't you?)
"How does a homeless man get to Calabasas?"
Probably drive. It's a long walk from downtown.
JWM
Juliec...
Elijah Rock! Elijah Rock! Elijah Rock!
Nope, not Elijah Rock. "I'm Gona Sing 'Til the Spirit Moves in my Heart."
DQ; I see that you are the latest in a long line of trolls to come unarmed to a battle of wits. You're going to have to do a lot better than that pitiful offering to get a rise out of GB. And to think I was expecting some good entertainment. Very disappointing, sir or madam.
Which goes to prove Bob's point about those of us born a little earlier than he. To be 19 in '67 was to get swept up in a great wave -- really a maelstrom -- the romance of which continued to blind me for thirty years and the resulting confusion only recently lifting.
This was true for a lot of us and a pretty profound statement. You can't imagine how hard it would have been to go against the "counter culture". And yes, it was a seductive lifestyle. There was a real innocence and naivitae. I'd bet that Rolling Stone didn't feature that cover with Manson as "Man of the Year", did they? They had him pegged as a victim of the Man. I sometimes think that the person who can really tell you what it was like is P.J. O'Rourke. He really conveys the stupidity that we had.
For the record, I was 16 in 1967 in the Bay Area. My husband was 18 and spent a lot of time dropping acid and going to the Avalon. We met three years later and have been married since. Never lived in a commune but did live in a schoolbus. And we are both currently board members of a tiny church up in the woods. I guess there's hope for everyone.
Folk music rocks! Um. Well, you know what I mean. :)
I was an infant in '67. Wasn't there a Jesus People movement too? I seem to remember a lot of that music in our "church" experiences in the 60's and 70's. My folks were involved in the Charismatic renewal and there was some crossover.
I guess Larry Norman was 70's.
"We will walk with each other,
We will walk hand in hand..."
Late Convert said "Elvis: the musical colossus who stood between the era of Rock 'n' Roll and ... Disco!"
Nah, couldn't be. You ever take a look at the base drum of Elvis's drummer?
Ain't no way "BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-" was gonna either come out of that, or get others to thinking it could. Maybe Keith Moon.
Course he'd kill you for saying so. If it wasn't for being inconviently dead at the moment, of course.
Larry Norman song that creeped me OUT as a kid in the '70's. But it's kind of eerily pretty, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1FcTKNXlO0&mode=related&search=
In '67 I was 7. Living in So Cal... I remember a flower child coming shuffling down the street... all bangles and beads, obviously seeing lots of stars - noon day sun being no hindrance whatsoever.
We were riding our bikes in the front yard & as she noticed us she turned, stopped, eyes agog behind some huge sunglasses... raised her hands sloowly upwards... "Can't you feeel the viiibraaaatioooons!!!."
We, being the evil children most normal kids are, demonstrated the vibrations which could be produced from three Schwinn stingray bikes, equipped with bannana seats and sissy bars, jumping full speed off the curbs and skidding around your feet. And also, just how long, and far up the street it takes for kids to lose interest in easy prey.
I think that memory of her, looking so idiotic and lost, saved me many times over when temptation came to call while playing in a band.
um... Bass drum. Bass. How embarrassing.
Oh, and yeah DQ - Lester's wimpy. We'd a kicked him just to watch him twitch.
bwah-hah-hah-muhummmm-bwah-ha-eeeeoh!!!!!!!
WoW.....in 1967 i was a youngster in Germany w/ my dad who was in the Army protecting the hippies from the Commies.....
Weren't we the unenlightened assholes of our time, no?
Anon:
It depends on who you mean by "we". I was never an anti-war, anti- America type. I remember sitting around partying with a bunch of guys back then. One of them opened a beer, and said he hoped that this f*ckin' country went down the tubes, and a couple other guys agreed. I said, "I hope you guys realize that if America goes down the tubes that, uh- you'll go with it." That shut 'em up, and someone else changed the topic. (this was not a particularly witty group of guys to talk to.) In short, I was unenlightened, yes, but probably fell short of being a total asshole.
JWM
waiting for someone to take up that straight line...
Hey Van, you want to grab that one before the trolls get it?
;)
JWM
jwm,
How's this?
Well, perhaps ... but it probably depends on what you mean by "total."
Question. Do you think Drama Queen minces?
I'm gonna go with yes.
While writing, even.
lc - the Elvis/Mozart quip? Priceless. I actually lol'ed on that one.
I can just see Elvis' massive comportment standing firmly between the establishments of Rock N' Roll and Disco...
"Man, that is a huge disco ball, man."
Jwm....none of the regular coons are assholes in my eyes!
Turn on, tune in, drop out.
The Age of Aquarius.
Purple microdot.
Panama Red.
A young seeker GENUINELY
BELIEVED that EVERYTHING was about to change. "Love would rule the stars." Everyone would be united into one universal mind. Woodstock. Janis. Jimi. Jim.
A young seeker survived and grew up to realize that no ideal conceived by man could ever become REAL. Tower of Babel.
Teri - There IS hope for everyone.
Hmmm. Except perhaps stone hearted, hairy footed trolls.
wv: oudece (that's for sure, Homer)
Bob-
You forgot to mention all the famous moderates throughout history. LOL
I was 19 in 1967 but I was more of a John Birch type. I've been watching the same BS now for 40 years. How many people have died because of this leftist crap?
Musical periods begin when the previous period becomes too complex for the general public to comprehend. ie, Baroque music became more complex with multipart fugues, etc. and then was replaced in popularity with the Classic period which started out with relatively simple vertical chord progressions, moving away from the complexity of all the interweaving voices of the late Baroque period. As the Classic period music became more complex, people wanted music they could more easily relate too, music with feeling, henceforth, the Romantic period, music that painted a picture or suggested something besides music, and a period for which John Williams could "borrow" from. And so it goes with classical, rock, jazz, any musical idiom.
JWM-I thought it was "flour in my hair". No wonder they didn't like me.
ricky said:
has anyone else noticed that back then, Jesus and Spirit were MORE than perfectly acceptable to this crowd back then – but not now.
That is an excellent point. The Jesus People started showing up about '70, or '71 (at least around my corner of Southern Cal). Of course we called them Jesus Freaks, but at first they were actually pretty well received. They were nice guys, if a little annoying with the 'praise the lord' bit. I actually went to some Jesus rock concerts. I don't remember being blown away by the music, and it didn't make me want to go out and get saved, but it was nice to go to a gig where there wasn't any trouble from idiots or the police looking for idiots.
Now, Devil stuff is cool. Go figure.
JWM
I'm up way too late taking trips down memory lane on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YihISpj-JP0&mode=related&search=
Keaggy starts up around 2:20. Looks like they've got Glass Harp reunion videos up too. :)
And he just gets better with age...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBQv1-yZsPU&mode=related&search=
Dagnabit! I missed the party...again!
I guess I'll hafta wait fer another troll to show up, so's I can let loose some heavy-duty cannonfire!
Give new meanin' to the term: cannonball run, har har!
Captain B'ob-
Truly a post fer the record books!
'Specially that part about Skully!
Not to beat a dead gelatonous blob troll (bloll?), but fire or lightning bolts work well on them too.
I heard...
Just sayin'.
"has anyone else noticed that back then, Jesus and Spirit were MORE than perfectly acceptable to this crowd back then – but not now."
Not exactly how I remember it, Ricky. The Jesus Freaks were looked on as a quirky anachronism -- by me, anyway. And the occasional "Born Again" Christian was generally seen as annoying and a bit laughable. Harrison's song was considered to be an Eastern religion thing, given where the Beatles had gone -- don't forget Lennon's comment about being more popular than Jesus, which we all thought was cute. I remember how weird the Doobie song seemed when it came out, although I think that must have been the early '70's, since they presumably had to have already sobered up.
Anyway, the condescension about everything that had gone before was well underway. You couldn't quite be vicious about Christianity yet, maybe because the civil rights movement had its roots in evangelicism, but the assault had begun long before the Summer of Love, when school prayer was shot down.
RE: Christianity - my impressions was, we were always in the crosshairs but for awhile the guns were jammed...
I think the era also had its impact on Christians themselves, though not having been alive I cannot say.
Interestingly, I think there were 'counter counter cultural' things going on as well, which definitely includes (at some point) Dylan as well as probably explains that Doobie bros. song.
About the classical music/eras what you say is definitely true, Debass, though of course my point would be it was never just that simple. I think 'classical' music was dead when every new 'form' that replaced an old one was still too academic to be accessible. This means, I suppose, that each era had a shorter impact after that. My music history book, in their 'defense' group everything after romantic as '20th century'. My impressions was they did that to minimize the realization of how 'academic' music itself had utterly failed in this century and that 'popular' music had attained a level of sophistication that made it itself the next era. Which though none are old enough to remember was probably how each of the prior 'era's happened.
For some odd reason with the 20th and their favorite academics the academy suddenly becomes the source of new 'serious' music, and consequentially serious music is no longer taken seriously by the public.
My impression? After impressionism came the Age of Jazz. I think we're still in it.
Ricky: The next line would be: "Good one, tiny E..."
wv: kfhugleg ... no you dooooon't!
I was 10 in 67 and had 7 siblings preceeding me. So many negative things at home were used as a hammer to shape us all into the workaholic, no-nonsense, conservative, A-type retentive germanics that we are.
As Catholic kids, none of us bought into the concept of purgatory since we were pretty sure we were raised there (think, Prince of Tides or Chrisopher Titus... I know!). For each of us, faith was more important, staying sober was necessary if we wanted to escape, being vigilant if we wanted to survive. So the whole free-love-drug-scene had no appeal whatsoever. It wasn't so much about being "good" it was about being in control. Sweet control. Self control. Ahh. Eh? Where was I?
Hmmm, Life won't let me drive the bus. But dammit! I'm smart enough to drive the bus. I really am! C'mon, Life, hand over the keys.
I guess that's why it's easy to see the cheats of so many philosophies. Not because of victimhood or some sordid reality, but because through all the pain, we had been given an underpinning of Truth that kept tugging us through the knot-holes of some pretty rough timber where nothing was in control, no matter how desparately we desired it.
I know how much I want to be good, and how much I can twist a situation to my advantage. Any philosophy that lets me off the hook is a wussy-ass dream of a religion. Any lovey-dovey theology that can't find me where I'm hiding isn't going to help me when I really need help. I know what even a nice girl like me (!) has learned about the parts of life that are indeed brutish. I know how all of my points of view are skewed to the skeptical side.
So dear trolls, BRING IT. You're not getting anywhere with the whiney "can't we all get along" japery. BRING something that doesn't crumble under the weight of what your sheltered little dreams can "Imagine". Cuz I'm imagining the Kingdom of the Cosmos can suffer a little rock-em sock-em without a single threat to its foundations. Gasp like little girls at the audacity of someone with spiritual underpinnings who will defend Truth with extreme prejudice.
Maybe that's why the depiction of the divine order found in the Bible is so trustworthy. God and Jesus both just make you gasp with their incorrect and inconvenient Truth.
And Jesus? He racially insults a beggar woman, he puts people off, he physically whips the backs of those who would fleece his sheep, he says he's come to bring a sword, to divide families, he disappoints would-be followers, he even judges harshly the spiritually elite of his time. He didn't "go along to get along" and He got what every other non-absolute philosophy of the world has to offer: a Death sentence.
Yeah. It's a brutish world we have to live in. Trolls? We use 'em for stepping-stools to reach up for the really tasty tidbids in the pantry.
Aw, crumbs and crackers!
I'm itching for a foray into the fields of frothing trolls, and here the Real World is once again driving the bus.
*sets aside battle array*
*picks up briefcase*
*adjusts her adoralbe sling-back heels that are oh-so-right for the day*
*pets the pup and leaves a treat for her*
Sigh.
Hmmm. The summer of love-1967.
My experience with the summer of love will be an upcoming story (soon).
It will be quite different to most, and familiar to some.
Truly, some heartfelt comments here today. My thanks for sharing them. :^)
Thanks Rick!
Keep yer eyes peeled and those cannons filled.
Thar be trolls in them thar swells.
A well placed shot might bring a bit O reality to their sinkin' vessel.
Although I certainly don't feel that young, I was actually just 8 for most of 1967. I would not even have noticed what happened if not for my older brother, who was influenced by the new time during his teen years. (He has since recovered quite well.)
Larry Norman was indeed famous in the 70es, to the point where I remember "I wish we'd all been ready" even though I never bought it or even copied it.
(Oh, and I'd also recommend fire against gelatins, but I didn't want to seem too obsessed with my fiery swords, lest Van break down the door to my room and confiscate them.)
Excellent, Joan!
Reminds me of Matt. 11. "The violent take it by force."
Joan - that was fabulous
Anglo-Catholicism is fairy castles in the air. Catholicism is concrete.
Or so I found...
JWM - "Doesn't Play Well With Others" was what I was referring to. Genius.
Sal:
OMG. I forgot about my own story. Thank you !!
JWM
Not fair! I wasn't born until May of 71! So, I figure that I must have been Janis Joplin in my previous life (ya know how all fortune tellers say you are a king, queen whoever but some ordinary shmo! plus she died nine months before I was born.) Unfortunately I did not get the voice again, but fortunately I did not get the looks either! I think I'm still drunk or something though! ha ha! Yes, it was a blast but sex,drugs, and rocknroll ain't free and it does come with a price....
Joan of Argghh! said "I know how much I want to be good, and how much I can twist a situation to my advantage. Any philosophy that lets me off the hook is a wussy-ass dream of a religion. Any lovey-dovey theology that can't find me where I'm hiding isn't going to help me when I really need help."
Joan, that... well, what needs to be said after that? Perfect.
Looks like I picked the wrong night to go to sleep.
No man need fear me touching his fiery sword.
DQ I'm not so sure about.
Probably couldn't break the door down though.
Lisa said "Not fair! I wasn't born until May of 71!"
Note to Will - be sure to fasten training wheels to Lisa's Walk 'n Roll shoes.
JWM,
Sorry I missed covering your straight line. Watch out for those fiery swords.
Van- I don't need no stinkin' training wheels! The whole point of Walk-n-Roll is to use the technology of instability in the shoe to strenghten and align the body releasing pressure in the joints. Cuz that's how I roll....
But I will relish in the fact that I am still a baby compared to most Coons, except River, but he's way more mature than I am anyhow....In 2 weeks, I will be concluding my third dozen and am looking forward to enjoying the fourth with more wisdom...;)
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