Sunday, September 17, 2006

Be Very Frightened: Krystallnacht is Coming to AmeriKKKa!

Ironic, isn't it, how just at the same time we are being threatened by god-intoxicated theological fascists from around the globe, we are facing the identical threat here at home, in the figure of George Bush?

Awhile ago on dailykos, there was a piece entitled Slouching Toward Kristallnacht, outlining all of the eery parallels between pre-nazi Germany and contemporary America. For the hundreds of frightened posters that commented on the article, it is not a matter of if, but when Bush suspends the charade of democracy and imposes a fascist state on us. As the fevered author, Maryscott O'Connor, ominously intoned, "It won't come in the same form. It never does. But it's coming. The lure of fascism is too powerful for men like the ones currently pissing all over our Constitution." (Of course, it better come soon. Bush has only two years to get the ball rolling.)

By the phrase "pissing all over our constitution," I believe O'Connor is referring to Bush's inexplicable interest in listening to telephone conversations of his fellow fascists who wish to impose a different theology than he does. Whatever. They're both motivated by the "lure of fascism."

Since the Jews are in on it this time, O’Connor concedes that Bush's targets for genocide "Probably won't be the Jews." Instead, "Maybe Arabs. Maybe gays. Maybe 'libruls.' Who the fuck knows?"

Indeed, who the fuck knows? That's the whole point of harboring a paranoid delusion. The delusion is necessarily vague at the edges, lest it be easily contradicted by reality. So she doesn't have a krystallnacht ball. What do you want, names and addresses? As another wag put it a couple thousand years ago, "Of that day and hour no one knows, no, not even the angels of heaven."

O'Connor knows only this: "It almost certainly won't be recognisable to most people until it's far too late."

Actually, it's the other way around. Once you start harboring persecutory delusions, it's too late. There's not much that psychology or even psychopharmacology can do for you. First of all, such individuals rarely seek treatment for their paranoia, because they don't know they are paranoid. Nor is there any medication for a fixed Delusional Disorder, especially a collectively held one that is reinforced by all of the members of the paranoid group. Here are just a few of some 500+ comments I harvested off the top, so this only scratches the surface of the depth of their shallowness:

"Yes, we saw a documentary last week on the Holocast and how it began -- its all true and its all happening again."

"Us non-heterosexuals have been the canary in the coal mine... and we have been singing for DECADES about what is coming down the road for us all.... Just as the communists, the socialists, the jews were all picked off one by one, we all get in the cross hairs eventually unless we stand together when the first are in that spot."

"We are not at the beginning. We have walked well down the fascist road. In my case, I woke with this rhetorical question: what is a Holocaust Denier? To my mind, the most dangerous of Holocaust Deniers are those who embrace the uniqueness of Auschwitz, who privilege the particularities of the past and all the shopworn realities of 1930s Germany and who wilfully deny its resonance to what is happening now."

"The capacity for evil must exist before the evil is done. Before there are gulags and death camps, the apparatus that sustains them must exist. We are worried because the apparatus is forming: a government that considers itself beyond the rule of law. This is not about the evils already committed, it is about the evils that may be committed in the future if the apparatus is allowed to grow unchecked. We won't know until it happens that Bush is planning a 'final solution' of his own..."

"The Patriot Act is intentionally destined to fail so that when the Globalists carry out a terror attack they can blame 'civil liberties advocates' for preventing them from keeping the general public safe and then reject out of hand criticism of all future police state legislation that they pass."

"Who else thinks September 11, 2001, was our Burning of the Reichstag? The historical parallels are obvious."

"This is where we're heading, folks. If the legislative or judicial branch does nothing, we are, for all intents and purposes living in a nightmarish version of Nazi America. And given the bullshitstorm that place has become, I think I'll be looking up the location of local gun ranges and trainers in the next two weeks along with going out to shop for a gun. I can't believe America has gotten to this point and my reaction to this new reality can be summed up in one word: Fuck."

"I'm extremely alarmed by the hate coming from FOX News. The whole 'war on Christmas' is coded anti-semitism. There is a history in this country of tying the 'war on Christmas' to the 'international Jew threat.'"

"Many conservatives will indeed start making physical threats when arguing with someone who disagrees with them, and many are happy to act on those urges. They treat their spouses and kids the same way and are too immature to see other adult strangers as any different."


Isn't it odd that these lost souls are deathly frightened of you and me and President Bush, whereas I am afraid of their thoughts. Specifically, it is very unsettling that a large segmemt of the population believes things about conservatives that are not only untrue, but cannot possibly be true. They are terrified of a wholly fantasized version of reality, while I am afraid of their seemingly boundless capacity to fantasize and to inhabit their malicious fantasies.

The purpose of language is to communicate about reality. But what if it is not communicating reality, but fantasy? Somehow, these people are "successful" in communicating to one another (they all know exactly what the others are talking about, while you or I would say, "wwwhhhhaaaat?), and are even perversely emotionally "nourished" by the communication. It is a relief to them that others share the same fantasy--it satisfies them, fills some kind of need. But it is not a need for truth. It's like an anxious group of primitives who invent a spurious cure for a disease they don't understand.

Without historical perspective, anthropological knowledge, and psychological insight and maturity, one's present being will simply rush in to fill the gaps of existential ignorance. This is how primitives remain primitive--they are trapped in the now, with no accurate knowledge or history. Their cultures are simply a collective neurosis, just as a neurosis is a private culture. Now, with the rise of the internet, perhaps more than ever before we have micro-cultures or "psychoclasses" that can become echo chambers for their anxious, frightened, paranoid, and even borderline psychotic members. They are support groups which support the disease, not the cure.

We must always remember, that culture is man's adaptation to his humanity, to the frequently distressing reality of having a mind. The reason why cultures can appear so strange and dysfunctional is that, more often than not, they are an adaptation to the inner world of fears, anxieties, and emotional pain, not to objective reality. The sort of primitive tribalism of dailykos consists of omnipotent and deified knowledge that only spuriously succeeds in blotting out ignorance.

But like any mental patient, only by "unknowing" their delusional knowledge can they begin to know reality and become healthy. This is notoriously difficult to achieve in groups immersed in a paranoid world view. For they are not the victims of mere ignorance, but a motivated stupidity. In this way the paranoid left is comparable to Islamists and nazis, in the sense that they are drowning in an invincibly dysfunctional worldview. The Islamists act on their delusions. Let’s hope our reality-based community limits itself to impotent kvetching.


Anonymous said...

You just don't get it, buddy. When Bush declares martial law and starts sending ordinary citizens to Guantanamo, we'll see whose not in touch with reality.

You are blind to what is going on this country and it is your ideas that are dangerous.

ben usn (ret) said...

Motivated stupidity indeed.
Or, as General Honore (what a cool name) put it:
Stuck on stupid!
Incidently, is there any way to convince the General to run for POTUS?
I concur with Bob,
(Shrinkwrapped, Dr. Sanity, SC&A and AVI have also touched on this subject).
These sheeple are potentially dangerous.
Anarchy is a goal for many of these twisted sisters.
I wonder, what will it take for the lid to pop off?
Losing the '06 and/or '08 elections?
A Supreme Court decision not going their way?
Coercive interrogation of terrorists?
Military tribunals?
I shake my head and chuckle at at their lunatic antics, but it's not a happy laugh.
It's a pity laugh.
The paranoid left are pathetic.
They need bigger and more atrocious fantasies to fuel their vile hatred envy and bitterness, which consumes their intellect and sanity.
Will some or most surrender to a greater evil?
Will they take the plunge and attempt to create their own fascialist muthaland?
Or, will they attempt to force a showdown, terrified that Bu$h wil leave office without their evil and false prophesies coming true?
Are the left transforming into a shame culture, like their spiritual brethren, the Islamic Jihadist fascists?
I hope not, but if they do we can at least be assured of one consolation:
Leftists are terrible shots, and know virtually nothing about stealth.
It's impossible to be stealthy while mumbling to oneself.

niconoclast said...

One thing is becoming palpably clear -and this from a Brit across the pond -you cannot be a Democrat and an American at the same time.Maybe once,but not any more.

Lisa said...

What I actually find fascinating and puzzling is that Liberals, in their bizarro world, have such a fear and mistrust of our own government and democratically elected leaders. They read your blog and feel the need to ridicule our outrage at Islamic law and tradition. They seem to be A-OK with stoning female rape victims, hanging gays, cutting off Christian schoolteacher's heads, bombing pizza places full of Jews, I could go on but it kind of depresses me...They get upset with the Pope for saying that God does not encourage violence as their God Allah does, so to show the world that they are really peaceful, they demonstrate and firebomb churches?!

Okay, now let's put reality aside and think like a Liberal. Bush is Hitler and just wait till he comes for you! The sad thing is that most of them have a college edumacation. Their displaced projection,fear, and denial is comical and sad at a time in history where there really is a fascist group out to spread the word and force people to submit or die. How big of a "real" tragedy will it take to wake these people up to reality? Newsflash to kooky liberals, 9/11 was real and committed by religious loonies, not Bush (in case I just confused you)and is intended to happen again. Stop by any Friday sermon in the Muslim World and hear for yourself.

niconoclast said...

How do liberals manage to get through their day with such skewed thinking? Or do they compartmentalize so that in their daily dealings they apply normal rationality and it is only in their politics that they suspend it? If not, they would need help just crossing the street. Puzzler.....

ben usn (ret) said...

A gang of Somalian terrorist pigs entered a women and childrens hospital, and shot a Nun in the back, killing her.
They also killed her bodyguard and another hospital worker.
If those cowardly demons were here in front of me...I would happily eradicate the scumbags!
Do you get it now, moonbats?
Do you need to see these twisted evil bastards on video?
Can't you see that Islamic fascist pigs are the real threat and not your metrosexual fantasies?
If you can't...then get the fuck out of our way!

Anonymous said...

That's right, Lisa, all Liberals heartily approve of Muslim stonings, hangings of gays, decapitations of school teachers, and bombings, and indubitably realize that our government's current actions will stop these atrocities cold in their tracks unless good Liberals everywhere can prevent our government from pursuing its present course of effectively stamping out Muslim evil wherever it exists. And of course, Liberals know that they must ridicule your outrage at Islamic law and tradition because if they do not, One Cosmos will continue to undermine and destroy these traditions with the devastating efficacy it now displays.

Right on, Lisa! Right on!

And right on to you too, Niconoclast, for baldly stating the truth we all need to hear: Democrats and Americans are mutually exclusive. I vote that we begin deportation proceedings immediately.

Anonymous said...

Yes, come to think of it, I believe that an exclusively Republican U.S. House of Representatives should immediately form a new House Unamerican Activities Committee and convene hearings wherein a modern day Joe McCarthy could ask those hauled before it: "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Democratic Party?" All who answer yes or are accused of lying when they deny any involvement with the party should be forcefully placed on board the next plane to Iraq.

Long rider said...

Hear is something most of ya'll have probably not thought of...


What are the halmarks of bigotry?
-They see their point of view in the best possible light.
-They see the opposite side in the worst possible light.
-They dehumanize the opposite side.
-They marginalize and ignore any truth the oppositionmight bring to the argument.
-They "label" or call names. From gook, nigger, and rag-head to neo-con, homophobe, and bushitler it's all the same.
-They fear the opposition and see the opposition not just as wrong or mistaken, but EEEEVIL.

I believe that the Left thinks they are completely immune to bigotry and so, for may at least, are being overtaken by it.

Bigotry is hardwired into the flesh, but the enlightened are vigilant.


Lisa said...

Anonymous, (is that you Will? Heh heh)...Thanks for proving the point! It is a good thing you have the courage to come to the One Cosmos website and speak your mind or rewrite other's comments in a sarcastic tone, as if there is a difference. Please keep maintaining the brave post of speaking out against the violent, horrible, mind-controlling, fascists at One Cosmos. Truth to Power! Now run back to DU and tell them how your superior brainpower totally quashed those fascists at One Cosmos. You sure showed me!

Silly rabbit, Trix are for kids!

Anonymous said...

Lisa, again, why do you accuse me of sarcasm? Am I not straightforwardly stating what you all believe in your enlightened hearts? Well, maybe not the deportation of all Democrats part, although some of you might well agree with that too. But could you tell me what else I've stated with which you disagree?

Long rider said...

"Indeed, who the fuck knows? That's the whole point of harboring a paranoid delusion. The delusion is necessarily vague at the edges, lest it be easily contradicted by reality. So she doesn't have a krystallnacht ball. What do you want, names and addresses? As another wag put it a couple thousand years ago, 'Of that day and hour no one knows, no, not even the angels of heaven.'

Surely, Dr Bob, you are not saying that Jesus was harboring a paranoid delusion, are you?

Or to use CS Lewis' trilema of Liar, Lord, or Lunatic, are you choosing Lunatic?? From what I have read from previous posts over the last few months, I though you revered Him. Maybe even see Him as Messiah. I'm confused. But then again, what else is new....


julieC said...

A couple of years ago, I got back in touch with some childhood friends I had lost touch with for a decade. To my sadness, I could not stay in touch with them for more than a couple of months, because it became increasingly clear that they inhabited a different universe from myself. This was the summer when the flu vaccine shortages were in the news. My friends were certain that there was actually a secret government program to replace the flu vaccines with smallpox vaccines. There was no motivation provided, other than a shrug of the shoulders and dark mumblings about the Bush administration. One of these people had actually studied microorganisms in college. When I observed that smallpox vaccines and flu vaccines are administered in entirely different ways, she shrugged it off. Her worldview was set, and no argument of reason or logic could touch it. I find it deeply saddening that there is such a big group of people in this country who seem to inhabit that same universe. They see evil everywhere, except in the places where it actually exists.

Lisa said...

Actually, I thought the idea of deporting democrats was the first original idea you've ever had. Keep up the independent thinking, after enough practice, it might stick. ;0)

My use of winking smiley face symbol means that I am joking and lovingly teasing you. I, in no way, advocate the deportation of all democrats, shooting them will be much cheaper!!! ;0) ;0)

Anonymous said...

I agree, Lisa. It would be. Why don't we let Ben take care of that. He's a manly man who already has those Somalian terrorist pigs quaking in their boots. ;0)

ben usn (ret) said...

Whoa! Lisa!
Slam dunk!
But first, let's give the test animals a break,
and replace them with the dhimmi's, shall we? :^)

worried conservative said...

Bob, I'm concerned about the global warming thing. If the libs turn out to be right, how do we get the egg off of our faces? What's your take on global warming?

ben usn (ret) said...

Worried conservative-
If you are worried about the truth concerning GW, I suggest you read
Michael Chrichton's "State of Fear".
It's a good read, and has an addendum chalk full of facts.

Petey said...

worried conservative--

You're asking the wrong question, How do liberals get the egg off their faces for being so wrong about global cooling? Not to mention every other major issue in my life time?

Lisa said...

You just have to eat them, silly!!!

Fried eggs are yummy, you just need to add a little salt and pepper. A bagel goes nice, too. But that would involve the Joooooo conspiracy, right?

Lisa said...

At least the Leftists around the world can come together and face the real issues the world faces today. Spain has ejected 5 models from runway shows for being too skinny. The WHO has determined that their BMI's were too low to be considered healthy. Thank God there is some concern in the world for women!

ben usn (ret) said...

You are right, Lisa, and thank you for the skinny on top models, BMI and health!
This is invaluable information for the Democrats too.
It's non-parisian.
Wait, that rules out kerry.
Oh, no matter. He would just complicate matters. :^)
Hey models- EAT!
Dr. Benster

ben usn (ret) said...

Hi Bob and Petey!
Do you guy's watch football?
Inquiring minds (well, mine actually) gotta know.

Will said...

Lisa -

Why is it every time some person walks into a room wearing a clown suit, big floppy shoes, a fright wig, moose antlers, and is holding a boom box playing sped-up calliope music, everybody shouts, "Is that you, Will?"

Petey said...


We don't watch much football anymore. It's just not violent enough. Actually, we began losing interest after the Rams left Los Angeles, but we do generally catch the playoffs.

We do enjoy baseball, hockey and basketball, although basketball hasn't been the samne since Chick Hearn died and the Dodgers will never be the same since being sold by the O'Malley family. Out of all the major sports, I think hockey still retains some of its original spirit and sportsmanship.

Lisa said...

You are just one funny guy who occasionally posts as an anon., Will. I cannot make an accurate judgement on your appearance, wardrobe, and musical talents as we have not met in person, yet.

ben usn (ret) said...

Thanks Petey.
I agree about football, though I still watch (hey, the Seahawks are paying well, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity).
I miss the games in the elements, rain, snow, mud, fog.
And after they changed all the rules about hitting, it virtually neutered the defense.
Of course, QB's and WR's are happier, and playing longer,
but it took away alot of energy from the game.

Van said...

Anonymous, lets take a quick review of the headlines, shall we?

=Israel is worried that Iran may be only a few months away from getting the bomb.

=Bush is worried that the Supreme Court decision may hamper our ability to get information from captured terrorists necessary to protect our people & interests.

=Bush is asking for the congress to clarify the extent of his governments Lawful ability to interrogate terrorists.

=Some Senators are worried that it may go to far, and so are in the process of debating and negotiating a solution to clarify our proper actions under Law.

=The Pope quoating from a medieval text, causes riots, chuch burnings and a Nun to be shot in the back by followers of the Religion of Peace.

=Around the world IslamoFascists are beheading, shooting, stoning & threatening daily and as a matter of course Muslim leaders of nations lead thousands in chanting "Death to America!".

What you glean from these common headlines is that Bush is a Fascist, America is the source of all evil (and an apparently incompetent evil at that, to let truth warriors such as yourself to continue to walk free exposing its nefarious activities on a daily basis), and that we who don't believe either are promoting Fascism, Hatred and Homophobia.

When you can see those same headlines, draw those conclusions, and choose to show concern over our wishing to prevent those headlines from moving their bylines from over there to over here, that pretty much tells the rest of us all we need to know about you, your priorities, and your ability to reason and make sound judgements.

Will said...

The thing about lefty paranoia . . . I don't have the complete answer to this phenom, but I think I know one of the ingredients, without which the whole shebang collapses like a cheap pup tent, namely . . .

It's just plain FUN to play revolutionary in the USA! Back when I was a callow teen in the hey-hey-LBJ-how-many-kids-you-kill-today days, I wasn't all that politically cognizant, but I loved getting my hands on some "underground" newspaper so I could read about how in a few years I would be joining my gun-toting revolutionary comrades camped out in the Rocky Mountains as we dodged and weaved Viet Cong-style while fighting the fascistic "Man". Whoa! Cool! Maybe I'd get to meet some revolutionary chick who thought I was the clone of Che Guevara. It would sure beat mowing lawns for chump change.

So yeah, for many, it's easy to romance to the revolutionary dream - I mean, things can get pretty dull here in the Land 'o the Free, what with all the prosperity and democratic stability and Sunday BBQs. On the other hand, just think about life on the perpetual run, holding clandestine meetings in candle light while always checking to make sure the clip is secured in your AK-47, going out on midnight tank ambushes . . . kind of gives you a shiver, no?

I once read about Frank Zappa, God bless him, visiting some Eastern European country during the Cold War days - Frank was meeting with some rock musicians who could only practice and perform in the utmost underground secrecy, otherwise Soviet-flavored goon/state police would arrest and jail them all. "Sorry for these conditions," one of the musicians said to Frank. "Oh, you know," an obviously envious Frank replied, "we've got political oppression in the USA too". No, Frank, sorry. Not even close.

Joan of Argghh! said...

I'll only let Bush send me to Guantanamo if I can have the same amenities as the Musloons. My art suffers from having to work at a regular job for a living, and I'm sure that if I could just get to Gitmo, I'd have all the time and comforts I need to pursue my art.

It sounds dreamy... except for the Britney Spears music. That would be torture by anyone's definition.

Kahntheroad said...

"Bob, I'm concerned about the global warming thing. If the libs turn out to be right, how do we get the egg off of our faces? What's your take on global warming?"

Worried Con -

Even if the dire predictions of the GW crowd come true - melted ice caps, flooded cities, what-have-you - it still would not resolve the central issue of what the caused the events.  Liberals have already accepted two vague premises on flimsy evidence 1) that all drastic climate change is caused by human activity and 2) this can be reversed of prevented by drastic changes in human behavior.

Liberals take these broad two claims as axiomatic and then present climate data to back them up - but never question the underlying claims.  So Al Gore can deplete the ozone layer with endless hot air about science proving that oceans are rising and temperatures are changing, etc. etc. and tell us that science proves beyond a doubt that global warming is real.  But that's not the issue.  

The issue is whether these scientific observations add up to the dire trends predicted by the left and, if  so, would the proposed drastic disruptions to our quality of life and economy actually solve the problem.  

The lack of evidence for man-made global warming, the track record of it's advocates (as Petey pointed out, liberals have been frightfully wrong in almost every prediction over the last 50 years) and the potential impact of the proposed solutions give me pause.

Also, consider that the most zealous advocates of drastic preemptive action against theoretical dangers from global warming - including unprecedented government restrictions of our economic rights and disruption of personal lifestyles - are the same people who vehemently oppose even the slightest expansion of government power to defend us from the concrete, immediate threat from Islamic terrorists.

How is one expected to take such people seriously?

kahntheroad said...

Oh, btw, Frisco Moonbat of the Day:

Bumper sticker: "Frodo Failed!!! Bush Has the Ring!!!"

Which, I'll admit, actually shows more sense of humor than most moonbats. Take for example the BDS patients on the bus who sit behind the poor bus driver and pepper him or her with rhetorical questions about the coming fascist state - "Have you stocked up on canned goods and ammo?" "Do you know that Zionists are brainwashing us through the traffic lights?"

"Sir, please talk to someone else, I'm just trying to do my job."

"Oh, I see. They got to you already."

You think you've seen moonbats? You ain't got nothing on this town!

a worried convervative said...


The libs might be wrong about the causes of global warming, but still...intuitively, it does seem like burning fossil fuels may have something to do with the problem.
If we flatly deny that global warming is caused by people, and later scientific evidence shows that we we're wrong, what will happen to our credibility?
Does anyone know what the official Republican party position is on GW?

Van said...

a worried convervative said...
"...evidence shows that we we're wrong, what will happen to our credibility?"

Ahem... with the audience you are concerned about looking bad in front of, um, what Credibility is it that you think conservatives have had, have now, or ever will have?

Kind of like Israel being worried about the reaction of the International Community to (any) action they take... it is pointless, they are always going to be viewed as being an illegal zionist entity, and are always going to be bad.

Like trying to answer a childs incessant "Why?" question after they first figure out that it always prompts a grown up to give an answer, the lefties will always reply to anything conservates say or do with "maybe so, but you're EVIL, and you oppress Xpeople, and we WANT Y and we Demand it NOW!"

If you do less than what you think is right to do (a.k.a. "the wrong thing to do"), in order to look "better" in the eyes of those you think are wrong to begin with - that alone will shoot your credibility with those who oppose you, and those who thought they were allied with you.

Ken Willis said...

Richard Hofstadter (1916-1970) wrote an essay in the November, 1964 issue of HARPERS magazine entitled "The Paranoid Style in American Politics," which was also made into a book of the same title. Although his immediate target was the John Birch Society he contended that paranoia in politics is an endemic situation. His opening sentence says it well:

"American politics has often been an arena for angry minds. In recent years we have seen angry minds at work mainly among extreme right-wingers, who have now demonstrated in the Goldwater movement how much political leverage can be got out of the animosities and passions of a small minority. But behind this I believe there is a style of mind that is far from new and that is not necessarily right-wing. I call it the paranoid style simply because no other word adequately evokes the sense of heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy that I have in mind."

Californian said...

Loony-left liberals are like children who tell spooky stories around the campfire, then shit themselves walking back to their tents when someone snaps a twig.

Nagarjuna said...

Would it be preposterous to suggest that we just can't be sure at this time whether global warming caused by humans is a real threat, and, therefore, that those on the right should be no more dogmatic in insisting that global warming poses no threat than those on the left should be dogmatic in insisting that it does? That is, wouldn't the most reasonable position at this time be to keep our minds open to the best evidence on both sides unless and until it becomes conclusive?

Anonymous said...

No, because even under the worst case scenario there are far more pressing human problems on which to spend our limited resources, as Bjorn Lonborg has proved so clearly in his research. Not to mention the fact that the proposed "solutions" have human costs of their own. Thousands will die and millions more will be condemned to poverty lower standards of living with any Kyoto type protocols--which only delay the problem by five years anyway.

Nagarjuna said...

To whom has Bjorn Lonborg proven what you say he's proven so conclusively?

Anonymous said...

Only to those of us condemned to having minds that are both open and logical. Which exludes moonbats such as yourself. So never mind.

Nagarjuna said...

Forgive me if I don't reflexively accept the word of some anonymous poster who categorically states that some guy I've never heard of has "proved so clearly" that we shouldn't concern ourselves with global warming. That doesn't mean that I dismiss what you say, but I would like to know if those in the scientific community who are qualified to evaluate Mr. Lonborg's research and claims unanimously accept them as the "proof" you claim that they are.

If that makes me a "moobat" worthy of your insults, all I can say is that the world needs a lot more "moonbats" who don't automatically embrace some likely conservative's unsubstantiated claims about such a controversial and potentially vital issue here on a blog any more than they should automatically embrace the unsubstantiated and conflicting claims of a "liberal" here or anywhere else.

Van said...

Global Warming 'evidence' has been from the beginning, consisted of a selective snapshot of data put together with research that is either questionable, or only partially used in order to get a equivocated conclusion otherwise unwarranted by the data or research.

And it doesn't take a whole lot of looking into to figure it out, so I have little sympathy with those who wish to keep an open mind about it and not risk being wrong on the issue.

In short, it is typical leftist cause mongering, no different than that which was behind Global Cooling, Population Bomb, Silent Spring, etc.

It was a pre-formed conclusion that would fit the 'Crisis' template and deemed useful for scaring the public into pushing the agenda of the moment, which is and has always been anti-capitalism, anti-American and pro Marxist Collectivist.

Utterly worthless, and as such destructive in and of itself.

Anonymous said...


Lomborg is a liberal, ya bonehead. Just an open minded and skeptical one.

julieC said...

I would like to make a humble observation about global warming. The earth's climate has never, at any point since its initial formation, been static. It never will be, regardless of any human activities designed to keep it at some idealized temperature (which is apparently what opponents of climate change want). The truth is the climate will either be getting colder or warmer, gradually or relatively swiftly, at any given time based on variables which even today's climatologists do not fully grasp, though it appears (reasonably enough) that solar and volcanic activity each contribute far more to climate change than human activity ever has. With this in mind, I fail to find climate change particularly alarming. Perhaps people should be focused more on how best to adapt to changes, instead of trying desperately to keep the climate static.

Or try this: Ask your favorite climate change worrier what they believe the earth's ideal temperature should be. Further, ask them how they propose to "set" that temperature. Then query as to whether they've considered that (assuming it were possible) setting the earth's temperature to a static ideal might actually be far more damaging than any changes wrought by nature from one year to the next. For example, how many species would die if we managed to stop El Nino from happening, because their biology is dependent upon weather phenomena that occur with some regularity every few years?

Just a thought.

Nagarjuna said...

"Lomborg is a liberal, ya bonehead. Just an open minded and skeptical one."

If you read my previous comment carefully, you'll see that I was referring to you or whoever the anonymous poster was who asserted that Lonborg had proven his claim.

"And it doesn't take a whole lot of looking into to figure it out, so I have little sympathy with those who wish to keep an open mind about it and not risk being wrong on the issue."

Are you qualifed to credibly make that claim, Van? I know you're a smart guy, but what is your scientific background such that you can be so unequivocal in your dismissal of the claims of weather scientists who argue that the available evidence DOES support human-caused global warming that poses a serious threat?

Anonymous said...

I realize this is elementary, Nagerjuna, but being an "expert" in some narrow field has no bearing whatsoever on what public policies should be pursued. In fact, more often than not, expertise deforms the mind and prevents the person from seeing the big picture. There is a reason why we want a civilian in charge of the military, and a reason why we don't want weathermen in charge of the weather.

Nagarjuna said...

Anonymous, I never said that weather scientists should be in charge of public policy. But I believe that those who make public policy, including those of us who vote for those who make it, should have some understanding of what weather scientists say about an important public policy issue and are justified in questioning those without expertise in weather sciences who unequivocally assert that someone has proven that we shouldn't worry about global warming or that the studies demonstrating that humans are causing dangerous global warming are not worth heeding. It seems to me that THIS is, or should be, the truly "elementary" truth.

Goy said...

Maryscott? Oh yeah... I remember her.


Talk about perpetually unhinged.

Petey said...


Yes, I will almost feel sorry for these liberals if a liberal is ever elected president, because then they will have to bear the pain of knowing that their unhappiness emanates from within. Pain is so much easier when you can project it outward. But of course, that prevents psychological maturity. Which tells you all you need to know about liberals.

Anonymous said...

a worried convervative said...

"If we flatly deny that global warming is caused by people, and later scientific evidence shows that we we're wrong, what will happen to our credibility?"

2:12 PM

Now THAT'S textbook paranoia!

(And why try to pretend to be a conservative, Stevie Wonder could see that you are not?)

Oh. Yeah. You are infinitely smarter than us. Forgot that.


ELAshley said...

"This is how primitives remain primitive--they are trapped in the now, with no accurate knowledge or history. Their cultures are simply a collective neurosis, just as a neurosis is a private culture."

Sounds like the perfect dust-cover description of Islam-- No need to read the book!

CompCon Foundation said...

Listen to us fall all over ourselves trying to explain away global warning. Idiocy! We all know in our hearts that GW is real and we cause it, and its bad, real bad. Stop running away. How about some spine for a change?
What conservatives must do is take the lead on controlling carbon burden. We need to take this issue away from the libs and make it our own. We can manage this thing better than they can any day of the week. Don't let the Gore-ites get a monopoly on what is well on its way to being the biggest issue in the politics of the 21st century.
Our current ideological postition on this matter (either that GW just isn't that important, or that it can't be helped anyway) is political suicide. What's it going to take for you guys to wake up? Does your house have to be underwater?

Van said...

Nagarjuna said...
"Are you qualifed to credibly make that claim, Van? I know you're a smart guy, but what is your scientific background such that you can be so unequivocal in your dismissal of the claims of weather scientists who argue that the available evidence DOES support human-caused global warming that poses a serious threat?"

I think that one of the worst developments of the last century has been that of "Experts" being given credibility over and above what a standard issue person using responsible fact checking and common reasoning will be able to determine.
That too can be laid at the door of leftist/Proregressive/Marxist... ah but there goes my one Note again....

The simple truth is that if you do a weekends worth of digging on any of the core claims of the Global Warming claims, you'll find that significant sections of data, information & research are ignored, left out or misrepresented to support their crises cause celebe. As with Chomsky and the rest, once you determine that their primary methods, not accidental discrepancies, but their actual methods consist wholly of these policies, together with wide equivocations - then you can simply and safely dismiss them out of hand.

Their words are without substance, utterly worthless, and the time and energy already wasted on them has already made us much poorer for it.

Also, Gagdad, I'd be interested in your take on this, I suspect that spending too much time trying to understand they and their kind's reasoning is potentially destructive to your own mental state, if you spend too much time trying to make sense of them. Maybe I'm a little odd, but I find that as you start forcing yourself to comprehend the 'works' of Hegel, Marx, Heidegger, Foucault, the Frankfurt school, et al, you can actually feel a warping occurring in your own thoughts. I'm taking a break from my series of posts because after digging into these last four, it's as if their ideas begin trying to literally dis-integrate your thoughts.

An odd sensation. So far the best cure seems to be take two Aristotle’s and read Gagdad in the morning.

But as to the Global Warmers, I think juliec's comment above was excellent and to the point. The monumental arrogance of them to think that they, who don't even have a coherent and working climatology model for the Present, are nevertheless capable of "fixing" the climatic setting for the entire world to a standard of their choice, to be maintained over an extended period of time.

Just as the leftists thought they could recode the structure of society and 'intra-personal relations' with their sophistic pseudo-scientific theories, which resulted in such paradises as the Soviet Union, Hitler, Mao, and so on - they want to do the same for the entire Earth. Can't you just see them dictating to Mother Earth "No, you're too confrontational with your El Nino's, and that Gulf Stream, too strident, just relax, take it easy, we're ok, you're ok".

Simply Amazing.

Lisa said...

I agree with Van and Julie. Global warming/cooling alarmists are not looking at a long enough period of earth time. Climate has natural cycles. Did the dinosaurs sit around and ask each other what they can do differently before the ice age? Would it really have made a difference if they altered the climate the .002% that the Kyoto plan will do? We must be sensible and not sacrifice the economy and modernity of daily life for some unproven future. I would certainly like to see people keeping the earth cleaner by simply not littering or throwing their butts out the window. I love recycling! But, F' ya'll if you think I am willing to do without an air conditioner in the Valley!!!

Peter said...

GW is about the liberal emotional state, not the science. Here in Seattle we have a bunch of activists concerned about GW who also want to tear down the snake river hydro power dams. The power would end up being replaced by coal fired power. Pure genius.

If we need to do something about GW, it will be optimistic business types that get the job done. Liberals will object vigorously to any effective solution outside of conservation.

joseph said...

The aesthetic issue of modern life is far more important and real than Global Warming, real or unreal. Humans are made for beauty and much in the modern world, so much of it is so diabolically ugly. That is an issue about which conservatives should concern themselves, as it involves the human soul.

Anonymous said...

Any president and vice president with links to the oil industry is going to arouse HOWLS of outrage from the left. It is axiomatic to them that the oil industry is raping America, and that therefore Bush and Cheney are doing it to. They will agree with every word of this paragraph.

Theirs is a world view based upon the idea that the American government, under the control of conservatives even when Democrats sit at the very top, that our government is evil and vicious and utterly corrupt.

What is truly bizarre is the free pass they give to the governments around the rest of the world - especially the vicious ones! The ones that prey on, say, Israel, who really does only want to be left alone now. But to our liberal friends, only America and our allies are evil. It boggles the mind.