Wednesday, September 02, 2009

On Knowing How We Know Bill Maher is an Imbecile

Let's get back on track with Schuon's discussion of the proofs of God. Perhaps we should stipulate at the outset that just because something exists, you can't necessarily prove it to some or even most people. Not only does every proof demand a "subjective qualification," but part of the qualification is moral, not just intellectual.

It is hard to prove anything to a fundamentally dishonest man, or to a man who is not in love with Truth. A sociopath believes in nothing but his own power to deceive in order to get what he wants. A corollary of this is that the man who reduces truth to power is well on the way to sociopathy. One thinks of Bill Clinton, and now Barack Obama.

You cannot prove to socialists that the free market is superior to a centrally planned economy, thus proving that one must first be willing to be humbly convicted by truth. You cannot prove to a committed leftist that racial quotas are not only unconstitutional but harmful to their intended beneficiary. You cannot prove to a barking moonbat that President Bush did not "lie us into war," or to a multiculturalist that some cultures are more beautiful and decent than others.

I once tried that last one over lunch at a psychology convention. During the break, about a dozen of us were sitting at a table. Everyone was sharing a little about themselves (we were all strangers), so I started innocently witnessing some Raccoon mysteries and slackraments, and the reaction was swift, sharp, and girlish. The feman next to me actually got up, petulantly threw his napkin down on his chair, and said, "I don't have to listen to this!"

Okay, okay. Sorry. He sat back down, and the meal continued in a kind of awkward silence punctuated by inane chitchat. The power of political correctness. (A reader sent me a link the other day, documenting the extraordinary disparity in political Love Offerings from psychologists and psychiatrists. It's as bad as you'd expect. Not a single conservative on the list.)

I just began reading Bernard Lonergan's Insight, so soon I should be able to report back to you on what is occurring when a man is thinking -- not just about God, but about anything, i.e., "what is happening when we are knowing" and "what is known when that is happening."

It's really quite mysterious if you stop to think about it. Plato grappled with the question of how it is possible to recognize a truth we do not know, unless we somehow already implicitly know it. Really, knowing anything is a freaking miracle. It doesn't really add to, or detract from, the essential miracle to say that we can know God. You have to be pretty unimaginative to imagine otherwise.

This is what Schuon is referring to when he says that "Skepticism and bitterness have nothing spontaneous about them; they are the result of a supersaturated and deviant culture." A Bill Maher comes to mind, since he is a fine example of someone who is skeptical and bitter as a way to signal his self-satisfied belief in his own intelligence to others.

This is a profoundly narcissistic exercise, because the cynic cannot "build" anything, only undermine and destroy. He can only sneer at the work of other men, while affecting an attitude of pseudo-sophistication. Such a man -- just like a child -- has no earthly idea of what he is attacking, because he would never attempt to do so if he did (to say the least). One doesn't destroy what is precious unless one is ignorant or insane. (By the way, Bill Whittle does a fine job of carving up Maher in this video.)

Again, a rational proof of God is only understood to the extent that it transmits a bit of the "substance" of God in the proof. In other words, it is not just the proof itself, but an additional x-factor that is conveyed in the proof. Really, the proof merely clears a space and creates a gap where a kind of electrical "arc" can occur. I'm sure you all know what I mean. Again, we're just trying to understand what's happening when it happens.

What we call the "mystical experience" is simply first-hand knowledge of God. It is actually much more communicable than people realize, but even if it weren't, "there is nonetheless no justification for concluding that it must be false simply because it is incommunicable." Again, that would be pure sophistry of the Maharian type.

As we've discussed before, the radical can destroy in a day -- a moment! -- what it took centuries to build. Thus, a Bill Mahar sets himself in opposition to "the unanimous witness of the sages and saints -- throughout the world and down the ages."

In order to maintain such a preposterous view, one must be so deeply contemptuous of mankind, that it is impossible to understand how mankind could ever produce someone as great as Bill Maher. Do you see the problem? It's like trying to account for a dog that one day starts using toilet paper instead of licking its butt, pardon the French.

Only the man who has understood the mystical experience can begin to appreciate what a neanderthal such as Bill Maher wishes to throw away. For in the end, he wishes to do away with man as such, that is, the archetypal man that conditions us from above, and toward which our life is a journey. As Schuon writes, "there is no comparison between the intellectual and moral worth of the greatest contemplatives and the absurdity that their illusion would imply were it nothing but that." Meister Eckhart or Bill Maher. Shankara or Sean Penn. Tough choice.

Schuon goes on to say that this kind of hermetically sealed ignorance would lead us to believe that "no proof of anything is possible since every argument can be invalidated verbally by some sort of sophistry." In short, it is a reduction of integral truth to what the most common and vulgar minds are capable of understanding.

Housekeeping note: probably no posts for the next few days. It's the end of summer Labor Day reslackification.

85 Comments:

Blogger QP said...

Kyrie Eleison. My natural -o.o- nature discovered Bernard Lonergan yesterday while googling Petey's phrase, "vetera novis augere et perficere". I bookmarked this informative page

Happy Holydays!

9/02/2009 08:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Zophiel said...

. . .thus proving that one must first be willing to be convicted by truth

And therein lies the rub. Such willingness involves humility, total vulnerability, perseverance and dedication. One must be willing to listen.

This is more than many seem willing to commit to. *shrugs*

Back to lurking now.

wv: upsym . . . hmm, I think I agree. I think . . .

9/02/2009 08:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bill Maher is like a little kid . . .
wv "amril" agrees.

I send email to Richard Dawkins a couple of days ago and asked him to hate me just "lil' bit".
Now am wondering if I can find email contact for Bill Maher heh.

T

9/02/2009 08:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Djadja said...

Enjoy the slack, Bob!

While you're away, we can coontemplate previous posts.

9/02/2009 09:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Job said...

Next time you run into one of the flatlanders that is throwing hissy fits, keep your cool and say "Well, I intend to talk about it and what you do or want is of no concern to me" and let him hit the road if he so desires....what right does he have to stop your right of free speech or expresson? He had no problem interrupting you and enforcing his beliefs on you, so screw the troll....

9/02/2009 09:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Job said...

I had to go back..Your column from Sunday April 30, 2006 "Yes You're offensive, No I'm not Offended" is one of my favorites and one that I would say fits this situation to a "T"....

9/02/2009 09:26:00 AM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

I used to argue, but not anymore. There's no satisfaction in trying to explain things to someone incapable of understanding. I just let it go, unless I sense that the person is open and educable.

9/02/2009 09:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't argue, but I know how to bat my eyelashes:)

T

9/02/2009 09:41:00 AM  
Blogger Bob Seible said...

! What fun. Thanks for the post.

Epistemology is fascinating isn’t it? Drag it out of Philosophy 101 and start playing with it in public…a bit of ping pong between Descartes and the Abbot of Le Bec. Descartes “I think therefore I yam” and Anselm “I believe in order that I may understand.” Okay, okay, so one is playing ping pong and the other badminton. (I suck at analogies) But still, you have this epistemological exchange and I like the funny picture in my head.

“Knowledge, what it is and how to get some,” is an endless source of amusement at family get togethers and late night drinking bouts with your moron friends. A word of caution though: any serious application of epistemology (beyond purely recreational purposes) to issues like politics, religion, science & etc may prove detrimental to your social life.

9/02/2009 10:42:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

"Do you see the problem? It's like trying to account for a dog that one day starts using toilet paper instead of licking its butt, pardon the French."

I see no problem at all. Seems a perfectly suitable use for french.

9/02/2009 11:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great Post, Bob. The scene at the dinner was vivid and reminiscent of episodes I had at graduate school functions.

You've sized up the opposition to a T.

Pursuant to yesterday's post regarding the non-utility of worry/anxiety, nevertheless the job of influencing the benighted must be carried out even if distateful (please see my comment if you have time, the last on yesterdays post).

So, in short, I feel your pain but I hope it does not discourage you from direct contact or even confrontation with the "multitude of grazers" as you put it.

That is where the work is, and I'm glad you are on it.

9/02/2009 11:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Northern Bandit said...

When it comes to someone like Maher who uses his wealth to indulge in coke/whore binges... well trying to persuade a twisted freak like that of anything remotely good and decent is obviously a waste of time (nonetheless, we must pray for him and his ilk).

There are thousands -- millions -- of borderline cases where persuasion can work. The other night I met for a few hours with a young pastor from our church. His fondness for socialism was purely a result of having too little worldly experience, and a thin understanding of political history. He was the product of our current education system, something for which he is scarcely to blame. He has it in mind that socialism is "compassionate" and aligns with Christian teachings. I gently explained the difference between North and South Korea, and not so gently made the case that Nazism was most assuredly a leftist phenomenon (along with almost all modern evil). Unlike B'ob's tenured boob, my pastor reacted with surprise and curiosity -- he had simply never heard such ideas before.

I do understand the reluctance to engage the truly possessed, but just as Bob himself has done much heavy lifting on behalf of 'coons, we in turn owe it to the left-by-default set to engage their beliefs and offer them something more adequate the the truth.

9/02/2009 11:42:00 AM  
Anonymous bob f. said...

Don't miss the Slackathon this weekend; just turn on TV to an channel that isn't broadcasting and enjoy the silence (be sure to use 'mute' control to eliminate any hum.)

9/02/2009 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

But there's no way to turn off the TV noise completely if it's powered on. Speaking for myself, I hate the sound of it running with no signal. If you need white noise, a fan works just as well, imho.

9/02/2009 01:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding interactions with left-leaning persons, Northern Bandit makes the point that some people are influencable, and have not hardened their minds to the point where they can't change their way of looking at things.

However, even the hardened mind can be influenced.

Let it be said that even an invisible quanta of positive change, be it even miniscule, in a human being is still an enormous victory for the universe. To keep chipping away at our brethren in a cheerful and indefatigable way can help to wear away the armor of fear like water rounds rocks at the base of a waterfall. It is a slow process.

You may not see any changes but simply your physical proximity may register on people. Words are not even needed at times.

It is a worthwhile work which can be done as one is able to, day in, day out, for life.

Every small gain is incalcuable. Earning a million dollars is insignificant in comparison with creating one small opening, a pinhole even, for the light to come in one person's mind.

There is the field of action for the raccoon--benighted human minds.

9/02/2009 02:19:00 PM  
Blogger Russell said...

"[W]e could lose [the health care debate] because I don't think [Obama] he has been tough enough. ... He should get mad, stop [expletive] around. ... He just needs to drag [Americans] to it. Like I just said, they're stupid. Just drag them to this." --HBO's Bill Maher

He's a really breath of fresh air, isn't he?

9/02/2009 03:26:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

Interesting: Socialism vs. Christianity across the pond.

9/02/2009 03:56:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Happy slackatation situation, Bob and family.

9/02/2009 04:23:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Searches of the day:

sugar candy skulls tattoos
theres a crater on my face
road to reality don't want to go there

9/02/2009 06:34:00 PM  
Anonymous goddinpotty said...

This, by the way, is one of the reasons I don't do a great deal of psychotherapy anymore. In order to be an effective therapist, one must have empathy. But I have quite literally lost my ability to empathize with most human problems.

You'd think that a loss of empathy would be a cause for alarm in a therapist. You'd think that a spiritual practice (or whatever it is) that eliminated empathy would be suspect, given the central place of compassion in Christian teaching.

Do you know a lot of spiritually-enlightened people who make a habit of bragging about how advanced they are? Who need to shore up their status by constant slagging of trivial TV celebrities?

Bob's concept of God must be tenuous indeed, if it is only defined by what Bill Maher is not.

9/02/2009 07:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Cousin Dupree said...

So true. But pity the trivial slag who slags the trivial blogger who slags a trivial TV celebrity.

9/02/2009 08:04:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Bob, I didn't know you were a therapist.

9/02/2009 08:10:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Bob's concept of God?

"In these lay many invalids—blind, lame, and paralyzed.c 4 One man was there who had been ill for thirty‐eight years. 5 When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had been there a long time, he said to him, “Do you want to be made well?” 6 The sick man answered him, “Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up; and while I am making my way, someone else steps down ahead of me.” 7 Jesus said to him, “Stand up, take your mat and walk.” 8 At once the man was made well, and he took up his mat and began to walk."

Of course this not all this passage means.

9/02/2009 08:28:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

I'd send him a bill.
Holiday rate.

9/02/2009 08:30:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

I do seem to give him the opportunity to blow off some steam.

9/02/2009 08:31:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Btw, I was that 38 year old man.
Workin on it...

9/02/2009 08:32:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Bob,
To get us all on the same page, if you have no empathy for Bill Maher, you have NO empathy.
Got it?

9/02/2009 08:39:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Goddinpotty must imagine that I don't feel his pain. Allow me to assure him that that is not the case.

9/02/2009 08:45:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Hence the invoice.

9/02/2009 08:47:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

I'm too empathic to charge him.

9/02/2009 09:01:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

That's a relief.
Bob, is there a medical term for "fear of mailboxes"?

9/02/2009 09:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"One thinks of Bill Clinton, and now Barack Obama."

Funny you didn't mention Dick Cheney or George Bush. Apparently there is little room for reason in politics.

9/03/2009 04:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This is a profoundly narcissistic exercise, because the cynic cannot "build" anything, only undermine and destroy. He can only sneer at the work of other men, while affecting an attitude of pseudo-sophistication. Such a man -- just like a child -- has no earthly idea of what he is attacking, because he would never attempt to do so if he did (to say the least). One doesn't destroy what is precious unless one is ignorant or insane. (By the way, Bill Whittle does a fine job of carving up Maher in this video.)"

Oh wow. Talk about the other side of the same coin. I see Bob doesn't think cynicism towards atheists or atheism is any different that what Maher does.

Although Bob, it is rather pathetic that you claim the reason you can't prove God to an atheist is actually the atheist's fault. I recommend you at least read The God Delusion, if at least to prevent yourself from making incoherent arguments. All an atheist would expect is that you apply the same kind of logic to a belief in God as you do to every other aspect of your life. If God exists, and it's provable, then prove it. Not with philosophical word plays(I see you often like to just say things without actually linking ideas), but rather examples where it's undeniable. Like, lets say we find an amputee who grew their limb back. That would seem fairly miraculous, but we haven't seen it.

9/03/2009 05:02:00 AM  
Blogger Susannah said...

"What we call the 'mystical experience' is simply first-hand knowledge of God. It is actually much more communicable than people realize, but even if it weren't, 'there is nonetheless no justification for concluding that it must be false simply because it is incommunicable.'" I think this is where I intersect with Bob. I wouldn't call myself a "mystic" yet my theological bent is to seek this direct knowledge of God (not merely knowledge about God). And yes, it is communicable. Hearing someone speak of his encounter with God increases my own thirst. Regarding "slack," this is a spiritual discipline, I believe. It's so easy to be a Martha and so hard to be a Mary! Take it from a mom struggling to get it all done while still being with my kids. It's a state of spiritual stillness even in the midst of what looks like chaos...still working on that. Okay, wv is "peted," though I think Dupree won this thread. Heh!

9/03/2009 05:25:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

aninnymouse said " I see Bob doesn't think cynicism towards atheists or atheism is any different that what Maher does."

Hint: Criticism and cynicism are two different words with two very different meanings.


" I recommend you at least read The God Delusion, if at least to prevent yourself from making incoherent arguments."

Read it. It's crap. Dawkins should reread Kant to learn how to equivocate more artfully.

Note also, you provided zero constructive criticism, only feeble attempts to undermine and destroy - but at least you proved the posts point.

9/03/2009 05:27:00 AM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Anon

I'm not trying to convince anyone that God exists, least of all you. I'm only sharing my own experience with other believers in the hope that it might be of help.

9/03/2009 06:17:00 AM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

Geez, I'd forgotten how dopey these trolls are while I was away. Same for same interchangeable too.

9/03/2009 07:00:00 AM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

It's really quite mysterious if you stop to think about it. Plato grappled with the question of how it is possible to recognize a truth we do not know, unless we somehow already implicitly know it. Really, knowing anything is a freaking miracle. It doesn't really add to, or detract from, the essential miracle to say that we can know God. You have to be pretty unimaginative to imagine otherwise."

Plato answered his own question.
We do know Truth a priori, as Bob has stated many times.
The question then becomes, do we recognize it when we see it or hear it?

How often do we read the Bible, or OCUS, MOTT, etc., only to find we recognize the truth we are reading?
And it's been mentioned here before, numerous times, that when this occurs it's an aha! moment!

Kinda like an epipheny and deja vu at the same time...multiplied to the nth power.

As if the Saint, or Mystic oir Wiseguy you're readin' has organized your very own thoughts (concious and supraconcious) and written them down.

Hey! I GNO that! Seriously, I do! But I just now gno that I gno it, even as I gno I gnew it.

It is indeed a miracle! :^)

9/03/2009 07:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Skully said...

Ximeze-

Yeah, they're dumber, too. They can't even use simple logic when they argue in their flatlander speak.

Kinda like agitated monkeys in that regard. And we all know what agitated monkeys doo.

9/03/2009 07:11:00 AM  
Anonymous lurker uncloaking said...

Reading today's post, and some of the more "anonymous" responses to it,
caused me to recall my reaction to a similar incident in my past. (WARNING-As a recovering cartoonist, l suffer from a compulsion to turn any insights/events/whatev... into a punchline!) (Ahem)
"Cancer is a disease of the body.
Psychosis is a disease of the mind.
Socialism is a disease of the intellect.
Cynicism is a disease of the soul.

WV-jokidnes

9/03/2009 07:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Petey said...

Hey, if amputated limbs grew back by themselves, even I wouldn't believe in God.

9/03/2009 07:24:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

Anonymous said "There is the field of action for the raccoon--benighted human minds."

Nothing wrong with the words in your call to action comment this morning, and it was nice that you left out the typical "Action!" calls you usually make (if you are indeed our longtime pro-proselytizing troll).

But it is still implied, and what is impossible to infer from it is what probably keeps you out of the Raccoon den - you seem to believe that 'raccoonishness' is something to be turned on or off, and 'on' only consciously with great effort and cajoling first.

It doesn't involve a secret set of incantations to be performed, or magic ring that has to be slipped on before going out in public as Raccoon-Man!

You are, or you are not - there is no off & on.

9/03/2009 07:45:00 AM  
Anonymous wise guy said...

Petey,
Best not to spend much time watching lizards.

9/03/2009 07:48:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

Gagdad said "I'm not trying to convince anyone that God exists, least of all you."

Which part of that do you think is the most difficult for them to grasp?

9/03/2009 08:06:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

i said " what is impossible to infer from it "

Sheesh.

"...what is impossible NOT to infer from it ..."

Ok, enough of this tea-water coffee, bring on the Oomph!

9/03/2009 08:26:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

Reading Schuon, though a different book (Spiritual Perspectives and Human Facts), I just came across this passage that seems relevant to the current state of the State. Starting with a discussion of paganism, he writes:

"...the very way in which the ancients represented the gods proves clearly that they no longer understood them. Esoterism for its part had no hold on the common run of men; it could not impose on them a spiritual idealism whose foundations were accessible only to an elite."

Actually, this passage made me think of the way I've often encountered Christianity in this country in the past, the source of the "Jesus Willies." Not that I'm calling myself any kind of "elite" - far from it. Just, as Bob has often said, faith must be accessible to all kinds of people, and most expressions of it - almost strictly exoteric, which I actually think is vital, just not my thing - didn't really draw me in. Rather, they had the opposite effect. But anyway, the lack of understanding Schuon mentions above could explain, for instance, the phenomena of leftist Christians, or of churches who are overtly anti-Israel.

Going on,

"The modern West suffers under the double disadvantage of being ignorant of all metaphysical contemplation and of possessing a rationalist pseudo-wisdom (Maher, for instance), which drags man down into abysses that are strictly subhuman; but in the midst of its chaos it benefits from the presence of a way of love, which is as such open to all, namely Christianity. What results from this is a paradox of a civilization far more decadent than that of ancient Rome but sheltering, in spite of everything, relatively fewer "pagans", ... on the other hand those who are directly involved in the creation of modern civilization and who determine its course are far more "pagan" than were the decadent Romans, not to speak of the general decline of the human level characteristic of our times."

I think he's right on the mark there, although to be fair it seems that there's a growing conservative push against the tyranny of the "paganism" to which he refers. Americans, for all our decadence, are still not Europeans, even though our leaders are trying as hard as they can to make us so. The battle isn't over yet.

9/03/2009 10:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Shorpy said...

Less Taxes, More Jobs

9/03/2009 11:54:00 AM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

To Be or Not To Be

To be an a**hole, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of the Democrats’ distortions,
Or to take arms against their sea of bubbles,
And by popping end them? So why; be sheep;
No more; and unlike sheep to say we end
The heart-aches and the foul congressional shocks
A citizen’s heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. So why, do sheep;
So sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of sloth what dreams may come
When they have hustled all the federal spoil.

9/03/2009 01:52:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

Ximeze, I'd rather be called an asshole by a truther than be called a brilliant intellect. Good to know our czars are the best and brightest; clearly, the green movement is in good hands.

9/03/2009 02:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Julie and Ximeze:

Ladies, I have been following your comments regarding decadent leaders in America, ***holes, etc. and the phenomenon of the Jesus Willies.

While I understand where the critique comes from and the things you've written are sensible, yet I wonder...there is an air of theatre about it, a sense of rehearsed, nonauthentic lines.

What about our civilization, bothers you directly and experientially, and not in the realm of your own mind?

Have you been unjustly imprisoned, denied food, treated incivily? Are you broken on the rocks of poverty? In short,what exactly is your beef with the leftists? Abstract or personal?

If the percieved damages are abstract, potential, or otherwise somewhere off in the future, happening to other people, or seen in the media, surely you can see that you might be blowing smoke up your own skirts. And there's nothing wrong with that if it makes you happy.

But is it SINCERE, ladies. That's the question on the table.

I know I bitch at people on this blog because I am a Troll and that is my weakness.

9/03/2009 04:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Van's an idiot. I know the difference between criticism and cynicism, and cynicism is one motivation for Bob's criticisms. Go figure.

9/03/2009 04:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You act like the two word are mutually exclusive. Dumbass.

9/03/2009 04:36:00 PM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

"...what exactly is your beef with the leftists?"

Just exactly how obtuse are you? That is the question on the table.

9/03/2009 05:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Job said...

So Anonymous, why are you here? You obviously have no concept of what this blog is about. Whenever you speak, your blindness manifests itself and makes everyone cringe. It would be like me hangin' with the people in Mahers studio. Yuck!
It would be torture for me and them.
Just the fact that you can type a thought...let that sink in...is the first clue to what you aren't seeing and the second clue: it didn't happen by chance....dogs and fish don't think about religion or metaphysics, much less type.....
Just go for a walk and breath and observe.....go look at your kids.
Either you are under conviction and you are running or you are here from Kos to fight some political battle that you will never win......because this isn't a political battle. Why waste the time????

9/03/2009 07:09:00 PM  
Blogger jwm said...

job said:
"Either you are under conviction and you are running... "

Holy cow, did that one ring bells!

You may well have hit on the true source of the Jesus Willies.

wv: lizes

JWM

9/03/2009 07:44:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

aninnymouse said

"Van's an idiot. I know the difference between criticism and cynicism, and cynicism is one motivation for Bob's criticisms. Go figure."

Heh, yep, you sure demonstrated it there. Nicely structured argument too btw - oh wait, nope, you still haven't made a single one... in what... 3+ years? Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your feeble words will always amuse me.

"You act like the two word are mutually exclusive. Dumbass."

What, no 'hee-haw'?

9/03/2009 08:15:00 PM  
Anonymous goddinpotty said...

A couple of quotes for the long weekend:

"You can safely say that you have made God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."
-- Reverend Robert Cromey

"Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it."
-- Vaclav Havel

9/03/2009 08:27:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

"When the potty is full, flush"

9/03/2009 08:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Northern Bandit said...

goddinpotty:

It's much easier to respond when you quote people instead of just expectorating bile as usual.

Nowhere in the 1400 or so OC posts does it say that God hates anyone. In fact as Christians (many of us are Christians here) we know that God loves everyone, even child-molesters. Christ died for them too. What happens to child molesters who do not repent is above my pay grade, and yes I tend to hate such people, and would REALLY hate them if they molested someone close to me. That doesn't mean God hates them.

As for, say, homosexuality: a parent may tell her three year old that smearing poo on the cat repeatedly is flat wrong, but that in no way means she hates the child.

As for the Havel quote, again nowhere in the cooniverse will you find anyone claiming to have "found the truth" in Havel's manner. Of course one must believe as we do that there is a Truth to seek in the first place. The Left -- much of it -- specifically rejects this. Their "seeking" is in the manner of the drunk looking for his keys under the lamp post.

Personally I have absorbed Bob's message that we must try to adopt beliefs and ways of life which are as adequate to the Truth as we can. Only saints come close to doing this perfectly, and only Christ did it perfectly.

In any case having read not a little Havel, I know that he is profoundly hostile to the ontology of the Left. Would he agree with Bob? Who knows. He sure as hell wouldn't agree with you and your ilk.

But we still love you *wink*!

9/04/2009 06:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Cousin Dupree said...

You can safely say that you have made God in your own image when it turns out that God loves all the same invincibly stupid or malicious enemies of mankind as you do.

9/04/2009 06:46:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

God may even love the GOP, but for me, loving a group that stuck on stupid... is beyond my pray grade.

9/04/2009 07:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Hey, if amputated limbs grew back by themselves, even I wouldn't believe in God."

I'm perplexed as to how that possibly makes an argument against God. Skin grows back by itself, but I would hardly consider that as any kind of evidence against God's existence.

9/04/2009 08:22:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

aninnymouse said "...w that possibly makes an argument against God. Skin grows back by itself, but I wou ..."

And they say maximum density is difficult to acheive.

9/04/2009 08:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And they say maximum density is difficult to acheive."

Van's motto: If you have nothing to say, denigrate.

It is interesting how many of Van's posts are nothing but denigration of others. At least Bob tries to put his views out there while also denigrating others.

9/04/2009 09:31:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

potty,

"You can safely say that you have made God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

Speaking for myself, I know with certainty that god doesn't hate any of us. He does find us all rather amusing, though.

9/04/2009 09:33:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

aninnymouse said "Van's motto: If you have nothing to say, denigrate."

ehh... I'd amend that to "If aninny has nothing to say, mock it"

But 'denigrate'... that has possibilities... picture 1990's Arnold in shades

"I am The Denigrator... and you are Denigrated!"

... not too PC, but, well, you tell me, does it have a nicer ring to it than

"I am The Mockinator... and you are Mockinated!"

Hmmm... too derivative? I'm not sure... Ximeze?

9/04/2009 09:52:00 AM  
Anonymous goddinpotty said...

northern bandit:

In any case having read not a little Havel, I know that he is profoundly hostile to the ontology of the Left. Would he agree with Bob? Who knows. He sure as hell wouldn't agree with you and your ilk.

Havel supports the Czech Green Party and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. He endorsed Hillary Clinton in 2008. I'm pretty sure he'd be more comfortable with my ilk than your ilk.

9/04/2009 10:21:00 AM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

How about 'Aninny's motto: if you have nothing to say, say something lame'

Think: More Cowbell

9/04/2009 11:11:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

If this doesn't raise some serious concerns in your mind about the Won, well... I'll let you fill in the blanks.

Is it personal? No, not to me - but then I'm not a Honduran in need of a travel visa to the US. The real question is whether it matters.

9/04/2009 11:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Northern Bandit said...

goddinpotty:

I didn't say Havel was a Republican. I said he was hostile to the Leftist ontology (i.e., the nihilism which triumphed in Eastern Europe for 70 years, and which informs the hard left globally).

If you can't grasp the distinction then let's drop it.

9/04/2009 11:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"How about 'Aninny's motto: if you have nothing to say, say something lame'"

Take a look at what I was responding to.

9/04/2009 01:18:00 PM  
Anonymous inner brat said...

I know you are but what am I?

9/04/2009 01:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Northern Bandit said...

QueegWatch:

This week queeg posted once again on...

Ah, what's the point. The only mystery is how this guy was ever considered anything than a purebred leftist/atheist from the get-go. The whole Islamism thing (almost completely gone from LGF now) was some sort of Chuckie brain spasm.

9/04/2009 02:17:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

A good quick one at American Thinker, Teaching American kids that compassion for deadly enemies can be . . . deadly" - hey aninny, potty, just think of yourselves as lions.

9/04/2009 02:39:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Btw aninny, perhaps you fancy thinking of yourself as just innocently entering the site, a fresh faced stranger who should be accorded civility & manners, and then "Wo! Why'd you slap me!"

Problem with that scenario is you are not walking in as a fresh faced stranger, but with a self selected identifying label on, one fouled with 3+ years of history behind it.

Picture... oh... say making yourself up to look like screwy louie farakahn and strolling into the midst of a Bar Mitzvah. If you dared feign surprise at the unwelcoming attitude of the celebrants... you'd be dumber than... well... than thinking using 'anonymous' would somehow make you seem anonymous to people who deal with rude and crude anonymous comments on a daily basis.

9/04/2009 02:54:00 PM  
Blogger Susannah said...

Julie, your post proves Bob's point that knowing (gnowing) God is communicable. Thank you for giving it to us. When I read it, the words of Christ rose up in my heart (to my mind, the most stirring words in all Scripture):

On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, 'Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.'"

9/04/2009 02:57:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

Susannah, thank you. I don't know why I was granted such a moment of grace, but I'm glad that it is communicable. It was a year and a half ago, but still fresh in my mind, especially at those times I seem to need it most.

I think the song she was singing may have been Magnificat. Apropos.

9/04/2009 03:21:00 PM  
Anonymous And Now... said...

For your Saturday innerattunement...

9/05/2009 09:44:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

Via the Anchoress, an interesting discussion about the value of crucifixes. As someone raised Catholic/ Episcopal, I've always found it strange to be in a church - most of them, it seems, these days - where there is at most a minimalist, easily-overlooked cross, but what do I know?

9/05/2009 10:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Life imitates... said...

The Twilight Zone

9/06/2009 09:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Raccoons, a cautionary word about adopting a critical, adversarial, untrusting attitude towards elements of the world at large:

Information gathered secondhand, ie, television, blogs, newsprint, etc, should be corroborated with reliable interviews and direct observations.

Don't get sloppy with your relationship with the world. Don't let others pre-digest your reality and cause you to form opinions sight-unseen.

In the name of love I call for precision of thought in the raccoon army.

9/06/2009 10:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Skully said...

Anon said-

"In the name of love I call for precision of thought in the raccoon army."

For the love of Pete(y)! I call for the precision of a name from (the)
anonymous(es) who call on stuff in the name of love.

9/07/2009 02:51:00 AM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

Skully -
Guess this Hides-Behind-Anon don't get the kinda funny contradictions in its comment.

Parrot to Parrot, Beaky sends Pekkeks from the Tundra

9/07/2009 08:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Alan said...

Happy Labor Day!

Let us all remember that we strive to a higher union and not the lower Unions.

9/07/2009 05:12:00 PM  
Blogger phil g said...

Wow GBob you just described my former neighbor who I shared a driveway with until we escaped, err, moved. He's a Jewish atheist law professor Ivy League educated from the East Coast and reads and quotes the NYT everyday. You described this tribe perfectly. They all think exactly the same. They're like zombie robots with incredibly powerful processors and superb verbal skills. They can argue any subject into a big illogical circle very articulately.

Happy to hear you survived close contact with this species and glad to have you back.

9/09/2009 03:24:00 AM  

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