Friday, October 19, 2007

Supposing Reality Exists: What Next? (10.06.10)

Let's suppose reality exists. If it does exist, then it is not sufficient to merely think or talk about it. Rather, we will want to be in conformity with it, no?

To put it another way, to not be in conformity with reality will result in death, injury or disease in one form or another.

For example, if you are not in conformity with the reality that walking into a speeding bus can be harmful, you won't live very long. But if you aspire to be a world-class mathematician, you won't get very far either if you refuse to conform to the dictates of basic math. Your career will die, as it were. And if you wish -- or even don't wish -- to know God in the absence of conformity to that reality, you will undergo spiritual death. Again and again.

Now obviously, it is possible -- common, actually -- to have thoughts that do not conform to reality, and not just if you're frankly crazy. Leftists are proof of this. Nor does intelligence help. Our universities are proof of that. And good intentions are of no help at all. The Democrat party proves this year in, year out.

Again, in order to have a cosmos, there must be a differentiation between subject and object. But no sooner do you have this differentiation, than you have a distinction between reality and appearances. The "human vocation" is to know the difference and to act upon it. The former is wisdom, the latter morality. Beauty is the creation of objects through which this reality is reflected.

In the words of Schuon, "He who conceives the Absolute... cannot stop short de jure at this knowledge, or at this belief, realized in thought alone; he must on the contrary integrate all that he is into his adherence to the Real, as demanded precisely by Its absoluteness and infinitude."

Therefore -- and here's the point -- "Man must 'become that which he is' because he must 'become That which is.'" Which is why the new and improved "first commandment" is to love the Lord with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.

In ether worlds, it takes all four -- heart, soul, mind and body -- to achieve this conformity. Leave out one, and you leave a "hole" in the Divine reality, the fullness of which is reveiled only in our adequate mirroring of it.

In man, the three transcendentals -- the Good, the True and the Beautiful -- are reflected in the form of Will, Thought, and Love, respectively. In other words, we must will the Good, know the True, and love the Beautiful. For who would want to will the bad, know lies, and love ugliness?

Don't get me started....

Just as wisdom is the beauty of the mind, virtue is the beauty of the will. And beauty itself reveals the intelligence -- not to say, love and will -- of creation, and therefore the Creator.

The point is that our Thought, Will, and Love are not merely isolated functions that arose "from nothing." Rather, they specifically function in a vertical-teleological manner toward their appropriate ends. It is impossible to coherently argue otherwise. People will the bad all the time, but it's only because they confuse bad and good, as in the U.N.

Likewise, people regularly teach and learn falsehood, but only because they either conflate it with truth, or deny the existence of Truth. If the latter, then "thought" will simply meander in a meaningless way over the blandscape of the mind, going from nowhere to nothing and then back again. It takes approximately four years to complete this round trip at a major university.

To quote Schuon, "Without beauty of soul, all willing is sterile, it is petty and closes itself to grace; and in an analogous manner: without effort of will, all spiritual thought ultimately remains superficial and ineffectual and leads to pretension."

Let's think about that one for a moment. Are there beautiful souls?

I don't really have to think about it, it's so obvious. But what I don't understand is how an atheist can get through life and not be in conformity with this simple reality, i.e., the existence of beautiful souls, along with the natural desire for one's own soul to attain such supernatural beauty.

Again, such madness is analogous to wishing to develop one's mind even while denying the sufficient reason for its development, which is Truth. And who doesn't love Truth?

Don't get me started...

It's quite simple, really, because the Real is simple: There is something that man must know and think; and something that he must will and do; and something that he must love and be (Schuon).

Notice the invariant in these three statements about human reality: must.

Therefore, Man is the unnecessary being that must Must, in conformity with the Being that Must Be, since we didn't have to be.

In other words, human beings are contingent -- which is to say, relative -- not necessary, or Absolute.

And yet, religion is here to teach us how to travel the perilous path from contingency to Necessity. The secret lies in the Must, which is that little portion of necessity we share with the Creator. But, in keeping with the gift of free will, it is necessary for us to "activate" the divine Must, for only in conformity to this potential reality are we necessarily free.

Or, the crucifixion of the contingent is resurrected in the Absolute.

48 Comments:

Blogger walt said...

So, conforming to Reality is a willed response to Necessity:

"...religion is here to teach us how to travel the perilous path from contingency to Necessity. The secret lies in the Must, which is that little portion of necessity we share with the Creator. But, in keeping with the gift of free will, it is necessary for us to "activate" the divine Must, for only in conformity to this potential reality are we necessarily free."

Interesting that the article linked by Smoov yesterday described materialists as pursuing "..."...promissory materialism. We will, one day, find the material answers because, in essence, we must. There simply cannot be anything other than matter."

If that is so, then their "willing," their MUST, moves away from what Schuon/you refer to as conforming to Reality, and "...in the absence of conformity to that reality, you will undergo spiritual death. Again and again."

And you know they think religious folk have long ago undergone "rational death!"

For me, the resolution of this debate was stated:
"...such madness is analogous to wishing to develop one's mind even while denying the sufficient reason for its development, which is Truth."

Ha-ha, this post is another chapter in the memoir of my own future -- one hopes!

(A little synchronicity here, in terms of subject matter, and language.)

10/19/2007 10:01:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

The sad part is that the world people sense is a blend of interior elements that are not 'there' like matter is, and exterior matter (plus the exteriors of other interiors!) Some of these interior elements are real, others are not. Some are 'lower' others 'higher' and it seems like the material world is like the spectrum of visible light - a tiny band in the middle. It's not that matter isn't real, no, it certainly is; but like visible light, it is not all that is real, not nearly, nearly all.

A prism escape, indeed!

10/19/2007 10:34:00 AM  
Blogger Smoov said...

walt:

You have to wonder what the psychological/emotional motivation is for a belief system like "promissory materialism". What causes people to think that way? Fear that there is more than that can be grasped by their dry, IQ dominated minds? Animus toward religion? What?

10/19/2007 11:11:00 AM  
Blogger CrypticLife said...

So how do you recognize when someone has a beautiful soul?

10/19/2007 11:25:00 AM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Smoov - It's their sin man, it's the shame of their sin. Just tryin' to keep it simple, keep it real. Simplicity and reality.

10/19/2007 11:26:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

cl: They have a soul which moves in accordance to reality?

Or as the Eastern Orthodox would say, "A Primordial Man."

10/19/2007 11:28:00 AM  
Blogger Mizz E said...

Now obviously, it is possible -- common, actually -- to have thoughts that do not conform to reality, and not just if you're frankly crazy.....but Stark raving mad.

10/19/2007 11:30:00 AM  
Blogger NoMo said...

cl - It may take one to know one.

10/19/2007 11:30:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

By the way Ra-coons, I've come upon another one of my Favorite (retroactively elected) songs. The song is 'Share the Well' By Caedmon's Call. I love the sound and the lyrics, and it just makes you want to dance. I know we're all going to dance at the Wedding Banquet, so we oughtta get some practice in. And besides, why should we not be Joyful?

(Lyrics in second link.)

10/19/2007 12:01:00 PM  
Blogger CrypticLife said...

Nomo's a bit closer to what I was asking -- how one recognizes a beautiful soul. I'm sure you're right that "it takes one to know one", but if one were such a beautiful soul, how are you recognizing others? Do you need to see the person? Do you need to interact with them, ever?

10/19/2007 12:05:00 PM  
Blogger Robin Starfish said...

Gauntlet
caution danger zone
unwrap slowly crown by sword
the crucified one

10/19/2007 12:06:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

"But what I don't understand is how an atheist can get through life and not be in conformity with this simple reality, i.e., the existence of beautiful souls, along with the natural desire for one's own soul to attain such supernatural beauty."

Doesn't it have to do with mistaking the pretty for the Beautiful? And I suppost it also follows that given that, you probably also mistake the expedient for the Good and the factual for the True?

"Again, such madness is analogous to wishing to develop one's mind even while denying the sufficient reason for its development, which is Truth."

There you go - failing to look through the horizontal into the Vertical, leaves you ... flat.

10/19/2007 12:12:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

CrypticLife said... "So how do you recognize when someone has a beautiful soul?"

My guess is that Nomo's not far off, it takes one who already perceives... admits?... the existence of the Good, the Beautiful and the True. Without seeking after some depth, you're left with the mere flat surface of appearance - you're stuck on stupid.

Once you've made that effort to look further than the surface, you see... sense... feel... whatever, a symetry between the persons statements, manners, actions, interactions, reality and Truth. If so, there's a soothing harmony you feel when around them. If not, there's a discordance that unsettles, jars or agitates you.

Have you ever met someone who, it seems almost just from their posture, you know you're with someone who is ... more... solid than most? There's something sound, serene about them... and there's some people who you. just. want. to. get. away. from. fast?

10/19/2007 12:41:00 PM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

Solid, indeed.

Someone who is more solid than matter.

Like a rock.

10/19/2007 01:01:00 PM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Riv - I like "cornerstone"

10/19/2007 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

Indeed. And as many kind rocks as there are...

And not uncommonly, that stone is rejected by the builders...

10/19/2007 01:28:00 PM  
Anonymous will said...

>> . . . what I don't understand is how an atheist can get through life and not be in conformity with this simple reality, i.e., the existence of beautiful souls, along with the natural desire for one's own soul to attain such supernatural beauty<<

Atheists can deny all they want, but they still exist in an integrated universe that *coheres* on all levels - and that integrity, that coherence is itself God.

Atheists can believe they live in a Godless universe. But were they to experience the true absence of God - the "everything against everything else", a state of anti-existence found (literally) in the worst nightmares or what it called the lower astral, trust me, they'd be crying out for the coherence of God within five seconds.

For many atheists, it may come to that, if that's what it takes to awaken them.

10/19/2007 02:08:00 PM  
Blogger Smoov said...

Man, Bob, since you got me (re-)hooked on the Allman brothers I have been wearning out my copy of the 1973 Cow Palace recording.

Particularly love "Will the circle be unbroken".

10/19/2007 03:09:00 PM  
Blogger Robin Starfish said...

An aside to all Call & Responsers - River has brought it back from a brief sleep, so head on over to Water Under the Bridge and get busy...

10/19/2007 04:14:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Smoov--

At the Cow Palace? Never heard of it. Is it a website only release? I might very well have seen them the night before or after, when they were at the Forum in Los Angeles... although it could have been '74.

10/19/2007 04:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At the beginning you come across as channeling Ayn Rand.

10/19/2007 04:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Petey said...

Probably my influence, being that I am a vertical objectivist....

10/19/2007 04:27:00 PM  
Blogger Smoov said...

Bob,

From Wikipedia:

Another peak of the Allmans' success came on New Year's Eve, 1973, when promoter Bill Graham arranged for a nationwide radio broadcast of their concert from San Francisco's Cow Palace. New arrangements of familiar tunes such as "You Don't Love Me" went out over the airwaves, as the show stretched out over three sets, with Boz Scaggs sitting in, along with Grateful Dead members Jerry Garcia and Bill Kreutzmann (The Allmans and Grateful Dead members guested at each others shows multiple times in the early 1970s).

I have this in MP3 format. Can package it up and make it available to you...

10/19/2007 05:36:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

How about a trade? I'd be happy to burn a copy of my coveted Van Morrison live in Montreux in 1990, considered one of his best, er, unofficial releases.

10/19/2007 05:50:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Will,
I believe you are right…and add that I still don’t believe they believe their own hooey…not completely…and that this bothers them. It has too. And it should. They have faith alright. But misplaced and certainly not to the level of confidence of what we believe. They can put on a pretty good show – but it comes across as faked. Just like you can tell a beautiful soul. The first instance that comes to mind is when I met my wife. Come on, CL. How could this not be so? Theirs is theory whereas ours is Reality. I’m quite certain my mind can’t be changed on this. I’ve seen all the proof I need.

Great post, Bob. Thanks.

10/19/2007 06:35:00 PM  
Blogger Susannah said...

"Have you ever met someone who, it seems almost just from their posture, you know you're with someone who is ... more... solid than most?"

Yep. I have met people whose hearts have made me want to weep with joy. And they are generally the most humble people on earth, the ones seeking, knocking and asking with their whole hearts.

They are winsome people, the ones whose very presence brings with it a breath of heaven, and makes your soul yearn for God.

"the crucifixion of the contingent is resurrected in the Absolute."

I've been pondering a lot about dying to self lately, to put it in scriptural terms. How the seed has to crack open (ouch) and die in order to fulfill the potential God has placed in it.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit."

10/19/2007 08:01:00 PM  
Blogger Susannah said...

Apropos of a recent comment thread:

Japan and nihilism, a post at the Point.

10/19/2007 09:01:00 PM  
Anonymous hoarhey said...

I believe that many a-theists fully recognize a beautiful soul when they come upon one. There is a reaction of envy and resentment from the a-theist, particularly the angry ones. It's as if they know there is no way in hell that they will ever get to that point in their lives and have no clue as to where to start. They covet the ease of being.
Whether or not they know that the only entity who can save them from themselves is the One they totally reject, I'm not sure, but I think they may on an unconscious, intuitive level and that reeeaaallly pisses them off.
This is why it surprises me that crypticlife is still around. Though not particularly angry, there may be something, recognized on an intuitive level that he may be open to.
Any testimonials Cryp?
I'm not sure if Cryp was the one who invited the "Sons of Satan" in here a few months ago but those are the type of a-theists I'm referring to, sick bastards that they are.

10/19/2007 11:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, take it from an atheist, most don't care. I also can't believe you think we get angry or envious over something we don't believe in. If some are angry, it's because they don't like to be "corrected" on their beliefs or told they are wrong, as many do no matter their beliefs. Which is not because any are trying to deny their true beliefs. I don't get angry however, if one is willing to discuss I will, but if one is accusing me of something I walk away.

I think it is unusual to say we don't really not believe in God because we don't display it with gusto. If I went around parading that a god doesn't exist, I would then be denying a god and might as well be accepting that he is in fact real enough to have to deny, which would make me a hypocrite.

I don't waste much time for something that I know I cannot prove true or false to either party(so perhaps I am atheist-agnostic). While acknowledging that at least the idea of God has impacted my life, I do not believe in anything but I also would not deny something.

And while some say we are lesser beings for it, I'm just glad I'm secure enough in it to shrug that off. I just think some comments are absolutely absurd, IE not knowing what beautiful is, c'mon now, just because one doesn't believe in a god that does not mean we are incapable of love, or feelings/emotion.

Our beliefs do not change what we can experience, but rather how we explain those experiences. So when I hear what I can and cannot experience, or I hear that I don't believe what I believe, you can imagine my bewilderment. Especially when I hear that I'm mad because I can't explain those emotions without God(or even feel those emotions?) I can, and do.

If you say I have a soul, and I deny it, that doesn't take away my soul does it? Unless God took it. From my perspective, you can at most say I'm ignorant, but I don't think you can say I lose something for that ignorance. Assuming of course that you are right.

That's about it. Love me, hate me, ignore me, just don't come find me an stalk me. That's all I ask. Of course I know there will be responses, it'll be nice to see them. Hopefully nobody is offended, I was just attempting to put my viewpoint up there.

And I have read Bob's book. Don't agree with it obviously, but a very interesting perspective no less. I definitely do not attempt to mock any religion or religious beliefs though, so hopefully if anybody was offended just know that I do respect what you believe. I'm not here to target anybody.

10/20/2007 07:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To clarify this part: "I do not believe in anything but I also would not deny something."

I don't say God doesn't exist, I simply don't believe he does. I cannot realistically prove there is no god, nor could I justify any reasoning I've heard for no God.

10/20/2007 07:26:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

I've gotta go with Anonymous (of 10/20/2007 07:18:00 AM) on this one, having come from pretty much that understanding and attitude myself.

Just as there are different flavors of 'Religious' people, some of whom seem completely lacking any true sense of religion, Atheists do as well.

I think part, or maybe even the whole, of the distinction comes in with that persons grasp of Truth is. I fully saw Truth as being one fully integrated whole with Right and Wrong, Morality, etc, following logically from that, and the idea of God being something that couldn't be demonstrated, probably a primitive grasp of the Scientific Whole, and so not worth being troubled over.

I had a solid appreciation and veneration for The Good, The Beautiful and The True, recognized Beautiful Souls and so forth, without a hint of Theistic belief.

It wasn't until I began to look Into The Good, The Beautiful and The True, Into this part of me that recognizes what they are, that they are, that I began to gain a more solid sense of Soul - and that still was as an atheist as I put it in my last post I "Now, it should be noted that belief in consciousness and even a soul, in no way commits you to being a theist. A sensible atheist could speculate that consciousness is perhaps something of a field which arises naturally from the combined ‘heat’ generated by a sufficiently intricate and intense arrangement of neurons, suffusing and overriding them into a unified operation, and which ends with their decay – something like how Light arises from an electrified filament secured in ceramic and encased in glass – the light is something wholly different and separate from it’s material seat, yet dependent upon them and perishes with them".

It was after stumbling across One Cosmos that I began to poke further into my own corners, and began to sense that inwardly outwardness that I began to shuck the atheist shell, but we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that any part of human sense and experience is barred from someone merely by virtue of atheism, at best we might be able to say that an atheist doesn't go as deeply into some of those experiences, but they are not barred from them.

However, from the angle some here are I think recognizing and speaking of, those who don't recognize the one, whole nature of Truth, are barred from being able to integrate and experience certain thoughts - contradictions are barriers to integration and understanding.

I wonder if that jibbes with your sense of it Annonymous?

10/20/2007 08:15:00 AM  
Blogger Lisa said...

Perhaps, it's just a matter of falling more deeply into yoursoph and letting go of rational horizontal control. Open up enough to see the beautiful recurring patterns and spirals throughout the cosmos (micro and macro, nature and self) and gno it's something beyond your imagination and real in a unifying sense. God should be hard to quantify and "prove" given the infinite abilities attributed to such a power. Feel the vibration and just breathe!

10/20/2007 09:13:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

Gotta love this,
The Big Chill

TV-PG

Forget all the talk of global warming. We may be standing on the verge of a new Ice Age. Within a decade, global catastrophe may strike. The US will not escape. It would be the biggest change in our climate in over ten thousand years.

10/20/2007 09:13:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

concise, clear and I want to read it again and again... faith has always been a powerful aspect to my life, though I have only visited church a handful of times, I have a huge respect for religion. To deny something bigger than us is to shut down all instincts and to live a life shut down to quality(love) which is spurred by energy. Energy is that which is what we share with the "Creator", energy is just as much a Must as the air that filters into our lungs. I had lost faith for some time in my life ( and felt without energy and not so alive)and it took a huge event of "reality existing",my father, to whom I was very close with, passing,suddenly 5 weeks before my wedding, with my husband to be. Mass is here and then it isn't. Energy, though changing, is constant, it is THE necessity and thus what we share with the Creator, and that is the Must, a fact, it just is, quality is important, as critical as taking a breath. It seems to be that it is not just a "little portion" but rather THE portion we share with the Creator. Reality(mass) is necessary as energy continues to teach us.

10/20/2007 09:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One more thing, the reason that atheists don't get angered at something they don't believe in, one word shutdown. Do they not see either that they are responding and thus some emotion is being played out, some form of energy....

10/20/2007 09:55:00 AM  
Blogger Smoov said...

Bob,

I'm in the process of putting my entire Allman Brothers MP3 collection in a location where you can browse the collection and download what you like. It is over 7 Gb total so will take a while to move up to one of my servers. I'll shoot you an email when it is ready.

You won't have to download the whole 7 Gb (unless you want to). I've divided it up by album, including the aforementioned 1973 SF recording.

Any other Raccoons who are interested can email Bob, and Bob can respond with the link I'm sending him. Should be ready later today.

10/20/2007 10:43:00 AM  
Blogger Smoov said...

BTW, some of these recordings are not commercially available to the best of my knowledge. I have no problem sharing these (I believe the Cow Palace stuff is probably public domain).

Otherwise I would encourage you to buy copies of the CD of anything you download and end up liking enough to keep.

File "sharing" is a gray area, but personally I have no problem "audtioning" music that way, then buying what I want to keep.

10/20/2007 10:45:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

Apropos of nothing (save that it crossed my mind), I was wondering, Bob, how things fared with Otis?

Also, when will your shop be open?

10/20/2007 05:35:00 PM  
Blogger walt said...

Haiku:

Raccoons are hopin'...
To end their aimless mopin'...
"Raccoon Shop must open!"

10/20/2007 06:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:18 Anon

Nice response Van. I wouldn't say all atheists are barred from certain experiences, but I can't honestly say if I could completely know that. Even for myself, I wouldn't think so, because I do at least explore religion, but I couldn't tell you with 100% certainty.

10/20/2007 06:55:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

I don't believe Bob is sayin' tha all atheists fail to recognize beautiful souls.

He has made, in several posts, distinctions among atheists, militant a-theists, agnostics, etc..

Certainly, there are atheists and theists who fail to recognize the Beautiful as transcendent, and evidence of the Absolute.

As Van said earlier, and I'm paraphrasing, atheists can't remain atheists if they continue to explore the depths of the Good, True and Beautiful.

And theists can't remain static (or worse) if they continue to seek out and realize the eternal and infinite qualities of the Good, True and Beautiful as revealed by Revelations.

I don't believe any Raccoons has denied that atheists and/or leftists or even Islamists experience emotions, such as love, and passions, of course we know they have passions.

But passions and emotions are obviously quite destructive if they aren't dispassionately grounded and subjected to the Absolute.

Yet I'm not surprised that most atheists and leftists fail to actually understand what Bob writes, because their emotions and passions is what drives them, not Truth.

Whether one is a believer or not, Truth hurts, and if you can't learn to master your passions, and accept that Truth is Absolute, then the easiest thing to do is lash out and attack or run from it, often at the messenger, since most deny that Absolute Truth exists.

Never asking why it hurts or annoys so much that they seek it's destruction.

10/21/2007 03:16:00 AM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Julie:

No news from Otis. As for the Raccoon store, just whenever I get around to it. Who knows, maybe in a couple of weeks, when the in-laws visit. That way, I can excuse myself and say I have important business to attend to.

10/21/2007 07:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Chewie said...

Bushy now likes the Dolleye Llama and Glowbull Worming and Troop Reductionz and All Manor of Lefty tripe. What has happened?

10/21/2007 11:23:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

Anon: Heinlein was clearly not barred from many experiences.

He just couldn't express it in metaphysical terms.

Bush... well, you should know that he's become increasingly a disappointment to all. But at this point it's getting to be like performance art. We paid for the tickets..

10/21/2007 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger BrianFH said...

Gags, you REALLY need to read "Surviving Reality in 10 Steps".

Notwithstanding that I fear the author accidently elided some text in step 10.

:)

10/21/2007 06:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Atheist-Agnostic from earlier

I wouldn't say that I don't get what Bob is saying, but more that I don't agree with it. But that's my belief, or rather disbelief. And note I've only read his book; I have rarely visited his blog so I don't have the fullest understanding of Bob's approach.

And I can agree with what you say that some may not understand him because their emotions distort their understanding of his ideas, and I suppose you're referring more to the extremists.

I suppose from my view as I've stated I don't rule out God, or even Bob's theology as a possibility, but in other cases I'm sure atheists do rule it out without even realizing what he's saying. I just simply don't believe it, and unlike most atheists I don't say absolutely no way. So in actuality I'm really not representing most atheists very well, but then again I think extremes in either direction would hardly understood even moderately opposite beliefs.

10/21/2007 08:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm assuming River was referring to me?

"I wouldn't say all atheists are barred from certain experiences, but I can't honestly say if I could completely know that."

I should have added this on the end "...for any individual."

I connected those ideas inappropriately.

10/21/2007 08:38:00 PM  
Blogger CrypticLife said...

This is why it surprises me that crypticlife is still around. Though not particularly angry, there may be something, recognized on an intuitive level that he may be open to.
Any testimonials Cryp?
I'm not sure if Cryp was the one who invited the "Sons of Satan" in here a few months ago but those are the type of a-theists I'm referring to, sick bastards that they are."

First, no, I didn't invite any "Sons of Satan". I don't even know who they are. I don't really bother much with angry atheists. I have rather substantial differences with them in a number of ways.

Most true atheists will admit to some possibility of a deity, and are simply unconvinced. People tend to argue with them over whether they are true atheists at this point, claiming that since they leave a possibility open they don't really believe a god doesn't exist. I believe one of my first posts here said, "I believe no god exists" -- which would appear (I would think) to put me in an "anti-theist" category. However, I could just as easily say "I believe no one named 'Ida Fribbly Burglecutt' exists" -- and be quite open to later being proven wrong.

So sure, I'm open to possibilities, though I wouldn't characterize myself as particularly easy to convince. I think a few have you have mentioned that really, once convinces (or fails to) oneself in actuality.

As for why I'm still here, the main reason has nothing to do with deities, or my belief. It's because I'm interested in you, and what you think. That's why I might sometimes seem prodding, and why I'm completely immune to insulting comments (though, they've made me laugh on a few occasions).

My interest in religion really only resurfaced a few years ago after completely disregarding it for ten years or more. I was in the WTC on the day it went down, and escaped about five minutes before the second plane hit. After that, I researched Islam a bit -- read the Koran, and some hadith, kept an eye on the information out there. Other research has sprung from there.

10/22/2007 08:50:00 AM  

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