Monday, October 15, 2007

Occidents Don't Just Happen

It's true. Nor do Orients. Or Middle Easts. Or Upper East Sides. In each case, the culture in question developed around a distinct set of values that forms its deep psychospiritual structure.

In America we have a culture war between those who value our deep structure and those who merely wish to take advantage of its unique values in order to undermine our system from the foundation up. For some reason we call these hungry tenuremites "liberal," when their value system is illiberal to the core. For example, this accounts for the all-lieance all the time between the holy warriors Islam and unholy pacifists of the left:

"Hence it wasn't surprising for viewers around the world to see the Islamist militants in Europe taking to the streets alongside the 'bourgeois Neo-Marxists' to protest the governments that supported the War on Terror.... The jihadi manipulation of the bourgeois-Neo-Marxist 'struggle' has played a central role in the so-called 'mass demonstrations' in the West since 2002, and the demonstrations themselves are an important component of the War of Ideas against democracy. On campuses, both in North America and Western Europe, the jihadi-antiwar axis has planted deep roots, and thanks to the skills of university-based anarchist groups, the jihadists have found a cover they can hide under, instead of simply becoming members of the typical Wahabi-contolled Muslim Student Unions."

In short, the Islamists are parasitic on the left, which in turn is parasitic on the liberal West. Neither ideology is rooted in the Sovereign Good, because neither is planted in reality to begin with. Rather, in each case, they are more or less "distant" from the fulsomeness of reality, so that they are ideologies (or emotiologies) of "deprivation" (and eventually depravation) condemned to a Folsomprisonness of unreality.

In other words, the Amer-I-Canism of our founders is based upon the liberation of the innate creativity of the individual, who in turn mirrors the creativity of the Cosmic Center. But leftism appeals to envy, which is simply the pseudo-creative "activity of nothing." It is the cosmic Nothing wishing to fill its existential naughtiness by inappropriating the creative something of others. This is why, if wishes were hearses, leftists would ride in them. Which they do, really, for leftism is ultimately a death cult, in that you cannot serve two mysteresses, and there are only two on the men, you.

Or take this fine example today from Dr. Sanity. The Diagnosista' writes that "For the last 100 years, Islam has abandoned any of the precepts that may have once made it a vibrant and positive force in the world. Today's Muslim leaders for the most part, have hitched their religious wagons to a variant of Marxist ideology, infused by a powerful religious fanatacism and funded by oil." Whatever else it is, Islam is "a religion that justifies and glorifies the abuse and death of children; a religion that enslaves, oppresses and humiliates women; and a religion that justifies slaughter and martyrdom as a way of life is not even in the same moral universe as any of the other major religions on this planet."

LGF links to a piece by Melanie Phillips, in which she explicates the actual Muslim values which under-lie the recent bogus offer of "peace":

"The Islamic world -- or part of it -- has waged war on the Christian (and Jewish) western world. The Christian world is merely responding in self-defence. It is the Islamic world which says it wants to conquer the Christian. The Christian world does not say it wants to conquer Islam, merely that Islam should stop trying to conquer it. Yet the Islamic world pretends that the Christian world is engaged in an act of exterminatory aggression against it.

"That lie is the motor of the jihad. That lie is fundamental to the absence of peace between the religions. Yet this letter fails totally to acknowledge this seminal fact. It says: The future of the world depends on peace between Muslims and Christians. Very true; but for this piety to be any more than a meaningless truism, the Islamic world has to end its aggression. The letter makes no acknowledgement of this. All the emphasis is on the Christian world altering its behaviour. So its inescapable implication is that for peace to occur, the Christian world must abandon its own self-defence. In other words, there can be no peace without the Christian world surrendering to Islam."

Now, it is not actually possible to make any nontrivial statement about reality without an implicit or explicit metaphysical framework, usually a naive or bad one. The American revolution was the first explicitly metaphysical political revolution. In other words, it wasn’t merely rooted in blood, vengeance, land or treasure, but in clearly articulated ideas and ideals that continue to inspire spiritually normal people all around the world. The reason why America has been so successful and productive is because it comes closest to embodying the fullness of metaphysical truth in a political system.

For our founding document is rooted in the affirmation of the self-evident (because metaphysical) Truth that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among these are Life,Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. As reader Michael B. noted, “The reference to the Creator is, and was intended to be, a metaphysical basis for the argument made in the Declaration against the English Crown. Deny the metaphysics, and the charges against King George III become baseless.”

Precisely. The metaphysics of the English Crown rested on the divine right of kings -- a bad, blood-based metaphysic that was taken for gruntbrains then as now, because, as Dennis Prager emphasizes, most human beings have always valued blood over morality. In this regard, nazi metaphysics are more or less embraced by most people who are not specifically infused with and shaped by the alternate view -- that blood is not only unimportant, but meaningless. One is not an American based upon blood, but based upon whether one assents to a common set of immaterial ideals. This was an entirely new psycho-spiritual, evolutionary development in the world, one that the world continues to resist, most conspicuously among the blood-worshipping savages we are fighting in the Arab Muslim world.

For example, the Palestinian objection to Israel is not “physical.” Rather, it is purely metaphysical, rooted in their nazi-like metaphysic that objects to a single drop of Jewish blood “polluting” their blighted nobohood. Consider how a normal human being would react to the Jewish presence in the Middle East: “Of course we want the Jews here! They bring knowledge, education, technology, wealth, prosperity, liberal ideals, jobs, human rights, democracy, comedy, decent delicatessens. Who wouldn’t want them?”

Indeed, who wouldn’t want them? Someone who -- like the vast majority of human beings in the past -- values blood and tribe above all else. This is the all-consuming metaphysical and existential problem for the Arab Muslim world. They are obsessed with it. It is their metaphysical dream (or nightmare). All else can wait, but the liquidation of Israel is of the utmost urgency.

Of course, we have our own watered-down versions of blood-based metaphysics in the forms of totalerantarian multiculturalism, diversity, and racial quotas. One of the primary reasons why contemporary liberalism is so illiberal is that it has abandoned the liberal precepts of our founding documents and is obsessed with race and blood. Although this noxious matavistic flies under the banner of “multiculturalism,” it is not really about culture but about blood. It is about valuing someone not because of the content of their character but the color of the container -- because of their membership in a privileged racial group.

In America’s past, Jews and Asians were prevented from attending college because of one kind of racism. Now they are prevented from doing so by another kind of racism that goes under the misleading rubric of “diversity.” I personally wouldn’t care if every single student in the UC system were Asian American. Being that I am a liberal, I would not conclude that this had something to do with race. Rather, I would assume that it had something to do with Asian values. If I were a member of a culture that did not produce such academic excellence, I would want to find out what it is about Asian values that makes them excel, and then imitate them. But this is as foreign to the liberal mind as it is to the Palestinian mind to imitate Jews, as opposed to butchering and maiming them.

One way to eliminate the painful distance between oneself and another is to attack what one feels the other possesses. This primordial impulse, rooted in envy, is as old as the human race. Genesis, preternaturally astute as ever in its metaphysics and anthropology, places it in Chapter Four, in Cain’s murder of Abel. It is the first human crime and the recurring human crime, for Genesis doesn’t just tell us what happened “once upin a timeless” but what happens every time. (The Fall, of course, was worse than a crime -- it was a blunder.)

So, my fellow Raccoons, I have a dream -- a metaphysical dream which barbarians in all times and in all places are asleep to. My dream is that there is a world of ought that is more real than the world of is. My dream is that a belief is not true, nor an act virtuous, if it fails to conform to this transcendent clueprint. My dream is that our God is a God of liberty, and that the same God that gave us life gave us liberty -- the liberty to freely discover truth, love and beauty, and to align ourselves with these transcendent realities. My dream is that there are only two races, the decent and the indecent. (Oh, wait... that last one was Dennis Prager's dream of Victor Frankl's quintessentially Jewish dream.)

Tell me your metaphysical dream, and I will tell you where your eyes are fixed and where your treasure lies or your lies are treasured, and whether your life and mind are ascending or descending on the inwardly mobile ladder of darwhiggian evolution and salvolutionary deveilupmount. For as it pertains to mankind's collective vertical ascent, there's no such thing as an unfree launch.

The most important goal for one to arrive at is this imaginative picture of what is otherwise a brute empirical fact.... How can men who disagree about what the world is for agree about any of the minutiae of daily conduct?... Without the metaphysical dream it is impossible to think of men living together harmoniously over an extent of time.... The dream carries with it an evaluation, which is the bond of spiritual community.... It must be apparent that logic depends upon the dream, not the dream upon it. --Richard Weaver, Ideas Have Coonsequences

53 Comments:

Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Standing O!

10/15/2007 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

Eudaimonia. 'The Happy Life', as in Aristotle's happiness; that is, wholeness. This is the same as ecclesiates which says at its end, 'Fear God and keep his commandments. For this is the whole man.'

This tight circle contains the whole of the reason, necessity and dream of America.

A metaphysical wedding ring, if you wiil.

10/15/2007 09:39:00 AM  
Anonymous joseph said...

The rub is that America's founders and the current American political milieu could not be further apart. Let's try this exercise--substituting the word America for Islam:

"For the last 100 years, America has abandoned any of the precepts that may have once made it a vibrant and positive force in the world. Today's American leaders for the most part, have hitched their ideological wagons to a variant of Marxist ideology, infused by a powerful religious fanatacism and funded by oil."

Now of course, in this community, the idea that our goverment has any corrupt connection to oil is anathema, but I remind the readers that it was the neo-marxist Roosevelt who first started our unholy alliance with the Saudis. It is not for nothing that Saudi Arabia is the epi-center of global jihad. Ideas Have Consequences and so do actions. If you support and sustain demonic regimes long enough, it will eventually come back to haunt you.
As for the the 100 year reference, we are still fighting battles relative to the consequences of the US entry into WWI and its aftermath at Versaille.

10/15/2007 09:54:00 AM  
Blogger Gecko said...

Standing O seconded!

10/15/2007 10:03:00 AM  
Blogger James said...

Joseph,

I agree with your point. Ending the threat of fascist Islam it pretty easy, remove their funding. Without oil money we really wouldn't know or care what a few desert barbarians believe. However too many people are making money from the current oil situation. No one wants to change it, yet changing it would be the most effective way to end terrorism as we know it. Getting off oil would not be easy in itself, but we could start the process of moving towards other sources of energy. We are not going to do that while we have an oil man in office. In fact, even if we didn't have an oil man in office it would still be difficult to change our oil dependence simply because there is so much money involved. Alas, our government is one of the best in the world, but I'm afraid it has always been susceptible to greed overcoming what is best for the country. The blood worshipers long to spill blood. I'm afraid that if things do not change there will be war, and they get their wish.

10/15/2007 10:38:00 AM  
Blogger James said...

Bob,

Awesome post. Another piece of the puzzle. Its most important to have your meta-physics correct in order to understand a problem and apply the correct solution. Without the proper meta-physics sometimes you cannot even see a problem. I get the feeling the left doesn't deal with problems per se, as much as they want to change everyones meta-physics to make a problem disappear. The problem doesn't actually disappear, people still know something is wrong, they just don't have the proper prospective to describe the problem. Without the proper prospective you can be sold solutions that don't actually solve anything, and usually involve taking power and money away from ordinary folks.

10/15/2007 10:50:00 AM  
Blogger James said...

Wow,

I think I understand how the left is able to perpetuate itself despite all it's bad ideas. Huh... So much for the masters degree in politics.

10/15/2007 10:53:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

Of course, it takes more than just us boycotting oil. The hungry Chinese will spring some capital for every barrel we turn down.

Which is why we're over there.

I agree that supporting the Saudis is bad, and indeed is one of the great foibles of our recent administrations.

In fact, there is some evidence that WWI was the main underlying cause of WWII - that is, the results of WWI on Germany created the environs for Hitler's rise to power.

WWII may have still happened even without our involvement.

But either way, hindsight is 20/20. We try our best to apply yesterday's lessons to today, but it is an imperfect art at best.

The first and best step would be to reduce the corruption in our own government, which would reduce the occurrence of the situations which we abhor.

And, we must fight radical Islam with real power; even if in the future we find out our actions were more or less useless.

10/15/2007 11:06:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

You know, Bob. I was thinking - looking over Orthodox thought in particular - it was odd that you did not see more scientific advance in Orthodox areas. But, I would imagine the fall of the old empire combined with the advance of Islam put such things on hold. What is your opinion (if you have one) of this?

10/15/2007 11:12:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

James,

Without the proper meta-physics sometimes you cannot even see a problem. I get the feeling the left doesn't deal with problems per se, as much as they want to change everyones meta-physics to make a problem disappear.

Paul and Jesus (I think it was both) call it 'the searing of the conscience' - making you numb to your own error makes you feel better... for awhile. Then you need more things to consume, but cannot figure out why.

10/15/2007 11:19:00 AM  
Blogger Robin Starfish said...

"Tell me your metaphysical dream, and I will tell you where your eyes are fixed and where your treasure lies or your lies are treasured, and whether your life and mind are ascending or descending on the inwardly mobile ladder of darwhiggian evolution and salvolutionary deveilupmount."

I learned something about aspen groves while in Canada. Unfortunately, I hadn't read Walt's best seller "Aspens for Dummies" beforehand. Anyway, they don't propagate by seed, but rather by sending up young shoots from a single root. An entire grove is but one organism, an underground and fully integrated mind. While a single tree's lifespan is between 40 and 150 years, approximating a human life, the body continues to grow, expanding a little every year. Some aspen groves cover tens of thousands of acres and are tens of thousands of years old.

When an aspen grove gets choked with overgrowth, new shoots cannot emerge. But it responds well to forest fire, a healthy event that burns the trees but leaves the root system unharmed. The canopy is again opened up to the sun and the the grove expands at a faster rate than ever. It's very difficult to completely kill an aspen grove.

Not unlike a Truth-based "I AM vine, ye are branches" metaphysical community and very different from the inevitable parasitical community like pine beetles that cannot recover from fire. Everything feeds on everything else, but only the deeply rooted one thrives in the end.

While walking through these huge aspen groves, it's easy to imagine them whispering among themselves as you pass through. They communicate. The smallest sucker has access to the same great wisdom as the tallest tree. A certain glint of light, a leaf flutter, a creak of trunk against trunk is echoed over there - it's not a perfectly quiet place. They share the same dream and protect it.

That's the Chauncey Gardner Moment for today. ;-)

Seedless
one organism
root to branch to falling leaf
the body of christ

10/15/2007 11:36:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

Sorry, for the lengthy comment that follows, but I can’t let this go by without comment.

Joseph said:
"Now of course, in this community, the idea that our goverment has any corrupt connection to oil is anathema..."

And James followed with:
"However too many people are making money from the current oil situation. No one wants to change it, yet changing it would be the most effective way to end terrorism as we know it."

Firstly, if by “this community” you are talking about the regular readers of One Cosmos, you’re sorely mistaken. I don’t think anyone here is convinced of the absolute purity of the oil industry; we simply don’t view it as the root of all Eeevil. If this war were truly about the oil, we’d simply have taken over the oil wells and bombed the crap out of anyone who got in the way. Or better yet, we’d have agreed to do business with Saddam, thereby sparing ourselves all the trouble and risk of fighting in the first place, happily allowing the corrupt regimes of the Middle East to continue doing whatever they wanted, so long as the oil was flowing and the bombings of non-Muslims were kept to a minimum.

That would have been the easiest and more corrupt way of doing things. Instead, we’ve sent our soldiers out to perform the Herculean task of setting up a democracy where such a thing has never existed before. The oil fields we should, if your assertions were correct, be greedily plundering, are limping along, depriving their rightful owners (the Iraqis) of the profits they should be earning.

James, you contend that nobody wants to change our dependence on Middle Eastern Oil. I disagree. Most every sane person wants desperately for it to change, including the oil companies (who will profit just as much by providing alternative fuel sources as they do by providing Middle Eastern Oil, so long as they are the purveyors). The problem is, any good idea for replacement energy sources is usually met with serious resistance by the Left and the environmentalists. Drilling in ANWAR? Bad for the caribou. Nuclear power (the most energy efficient, environmentally safe option, especially with technological improvements)? Nope, Not In My Backyard! No new nuclear plants have been built in this country since the 1970s, though many are being proposed right now. Wind farms? Sure, unless they obstruct the wrong people’s view or kill too many hapless birds. Consumers are clamoring for alternate energy products (look how popular hybrid cars have become), and businesses are struggling to meet those demands. But in the meantime, we are still dependent on oil. Not because of the profits to be had, but because it is simply the best and most efficient fuel currently available to us on a wide scale. We get it mostly from the Middle East because we have very few viable alternatives right now.

Obviously, oil is a huge factor here in that it provides the terrorists with the means to wreak greater havoc than they could have without it, but the fact is if the Middle East consisted of Westernized, capitalistic economies instead of bloodthirsty Islamists who dream of a world under the sandals of Wahabbism, we would not be caught up in this war right now.

It’s not about the oil, nor the “oil-man” in office. It’s about the madness of an evil faith that worships death, and therefore dreams of death for all the world.

10/15/2007 12:06:00 PM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

Well said Julie!

10/15/2007 12:12:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

Thanks, Ximeze; I hope that wasn't overkill, and I do agree with Joseph's first point and with James in his second comment.

If I could have one wish granted, it would not be for world peace (which would likely result in universal death), but rather world Liberty, based upon the same principles this country was founded on.

10/15/2007 12:28:00 PM  
Blogger Johan (cosmic swede) said...

"Today's Muslim leaders for the most part, have hitched their religious wagons to a variant of Marxist ideology, infused by a powerful religious fanatacism and funded by oil."

Can you therefore blame the oil for the Middle East muslims failure(s)? I guess not, but maybe you can say it's part of the explanation. All (or almost all) countries that have large oil (or natural gas) findings have a tendency to fall into the hands of dictatorship and barbary (Russia is going there, Venzuela is there already). Isn't there a pattern here? These countries, blessed with these gifts, seems to draw corrupt and populistic politicians to them. Like a bear to honey. Can it be that when countries don't have to rely on real development, driven by real economics, they become lazy? Both in body and mind as in spirit.

The old empires, driven by slaves, never cared much to develop more efficiant machines or improve engineering skills further than was necessary. They had slaves that took care of the hard work, and that was a seemingly endless resource. They didn't have to develop, they had the free slave labour. Of course it was not the only reason why, for example the Roman Empire fell, but one part of it, as what I have leard. Oil is the new "slave labour" in the middle east. Besides, Saudi Arabia outlawed human slavery in 1965!

A slave-driven economy can never be built to last, nor can a slave-driven mind, and certainly not a slave-driven spirituality.

10/15/2007 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

But without the slaves, people can no longer be forced to make the sacrifices required to carry a society forward. This 'better morality' has a cost - the sacrifices must be made now with willing hands - and enough of them. If it does not happen, they themselves become the slaves of the nearest power.

It seems that the Christianization of the world draws all toward it...

10/15/2007 01:06:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

You make a good observation, Magnus, though I think again the issue is not so much "oil" as it is "exploitable resource." Oil is certainly a big part of the equation in this instance and acts as an accelerant, but it is not the cause of the conflagration.

Dictators flock to such places mainly because the cultures there already reward the corrupt, greedy and merciless with positions of power. The fact that they can exploit something valuable in the process, be it oil, diamonds, water, opium, cocaine or slave labor, is more a correlation than a causation.

10/15/2007 02:11:00 PM  
Blogger Gecko said...

Home run, julie!

10/15/2007 02:42:00 PM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

May interest some that Dinesh D'Souza has a new book out tomorrow:

"What's So Great About Christianity"

Gary Bauer at Human Events has a review.
"D'Souza pens a rebuttal to the spate of atheist tracts that would have us believe that religion, and Christianity in particular, is the bane of reason and science and is on its way out in America."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=22839

10/15/2007 03:01:00 PM  
Blogger James said...

Thanks River,

I think that most of what passes for news now is really a searing of the conscience. I've stopped watching TV it is the only way to look at it.
On the other issue. I believe that if we develop an alternate energy source then China, at least, would adopt it as well. China is smart. They have no wish to fund global Islam. Although I can see China funding them and using them as leverage against us. Hmm... there goes that argument. Yet freedom from oil would at least give us considerably more latitude with our foreign policy. We wouldn't have to worry so much about who we offend.

10/15/2007 03:11:00 PM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

Smoov:
(honeysweetiedarlingdearest)did you not say a few days ago: destination NYC? Check this out:

The King’s College Hosts Debate Between Dinesh D'Souza and Christopher Hitchens (New York)

On Monday, October 22, at 7:30pm, The King’s College will sponsor a debate between cultural critics Dinesh D’Souza and Christopher Hitchens at the New York Society for Ethical Culture, 64th Street and Central Park West, in New York City.

The debate will address the question, “Is Christianity the problem?” The debate is free and open to the public. Doors open at 7 PM.

From NRO:What's So Great About Dinesh [John J. Miller]

Tomorrow, we're scheduled to post an audio interview on NRO's Between the Covers with Dinesh D'Souza about his brand-new book, What's So Great About Christianity. Before we pushed the record button, Dinesh asked me to invite readers of The Corner to his debate next Monday versus Christopher Hitchens at King's College in New York.

Oooooh, what I would not give to be present at that debate. Gotta hope Booktv will record it for our viewing.

10/15/2007 03:32:00 PM  
Blogger James said...

Julie,

I agree with your points. I agree that there are a lot of people who are aware of the problem and want to fix it. What has me concerned is there isn't a lot of action on a policy level. The last two energy bills are epics of patronage, and don't do a lot to address our oil dependence, and there is a lot of money being made in oil right now. I'm not a Bush hater ether. I blame all our elected officials. It doesn't have to be some sort of conspiracy; our continued dependence on oil could be nothing more then our officials don't find it as important as I do . Which is fine they probably know more then I do anyway. But you're completely right about the environmental movement. Its unhinged.
I understand getting off oil is not an easy problem. But I would feel a lot better about it if our government would start thinking about our energy policy strategically, and start showing some leadership! (sigh)
(deep breath)
I think I'm asking too much.
The solution to our woes will most likely be developed by an entrepreneur, in their garage, at the 11th hour.

10/15/2007 03:50:00 PM  
Blogger Robin Starfish said...

james said, "I think I'm asking too much. The solution to our woes will most likely be developed by an entrepreneur, in their garage, at the 11th hour."

Couldn't agree more. There's somebody out there right now with the answer, just like it's always been.

Here's an interesting website - EcoGeek - that showcases just such activity. Its base ranges from wildeyed inventor to Eco-Wack , but some of the proposals are beyond cool and someday somewhere, somebody may change everything.

10/15/2007 04:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Petey said...

If anyone wants to nominate Bob for Best Religious Blog, go right ahead. I just did, although I won't vote for him in the finals.

10/15/2007 04:35:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

James, I agree wholeheartedly. I do hope our latter-day David will find the right stone soon.

10/15/2007 04:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They hint they have a problem with political blogs, and judging from this blog it is at least as political as religious, if not more political.

I agree eudaimonia is similar to ecclesiates, but with one difference being reference to God. IE, the push for intrinsic vs extrinsic values. I don't think Aristotle had in mind any particular standards; even then arguments go on as to what he truly means which leaves the door wide open for many to obtain it any way they see fit, though fearing God and keeping his commandments would be one obvious option.

But I don't know know what is meant by "whole" in that statement. Wholly whole? I don't know, maybe time to do some reading.

10/15/2007 05:42:00 PM  
Blogger Mizz E said...

Raccoons - Get your ring tale hiney over there - find Petey's comment and click on the plus sign - that's a vote for the nomination of One Cosmos - The Best Religious Blog ever.

10/15/2007 06:31:00 PM  
Blogger Stuart said...

Joseph,

I don't believe reducing our dependence on Islamic oil will do much to cull hateful Islamic ideologies. In fact, I don't think it is a matter of funding at all. Even if they had no oil money, Islamic facism would have found some other way to erupt on the global stage. Funding problems would not have stopped this colossal clash of values we see today.

Making money and maintaining the conditions required to sustain and enjoy it is a very powerful motivator. Capitalism leads to moderation, stability and increasing security of property rights.

Reducing our reliance on Mid-East oil is not the answer to Islam. We need to remove the corrupt leaders who steal and hord their countries' oil monies. And we need to support economic policies that de-nationalize the Middle East oil industry.

-Stu

10/15/2007 07:07:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

"How can men who disagree about what the world is for agree about any of the minutiae of daily conduct?..."

That's my favorite Weaver quote... a fitting close to a top notch post.

10/15/2007 07:56:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Joseph said "...infused by a powerful religious fanatacism and funded by oil."

Joseph... getting a bit carried away there aren't you? That's an equivocation Chomsky could admire.

10/15/2007 08:00:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

James said "...difficult to change our oil dependence simply because there is so much money involved."

Come on guys, that's not the way an economy works. There's so much money there because of the need for oil - not the other way around. If you want to free up the immediate dependence on that source, remove the need to seek so much of it elsewhere, organize to push for repealing the greenie laws that force us from getting oil from our own lands, nuclear power, etc.

When a breakthrough comes in batteries or hydrogen, or even the 'burning salt water' story a while back - those damn sheiks will be back to sitting on nothing but smelly deposits again.

Money comes from production, not the other way around - no matter how difficult it may become to follow the bread crumbs, that is a metaphysical fact, pretending otherwise is just variations of rube goldberg perpetual motion schemes.

10/15/2007 08:09:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

James said "...the left doesn't deal with problems per se, as much as they want to change everyones meta-physics to make a problem disappear."

THere you go! That's been what has made the lefties left since the beginning!

They want to convince everyone that metaphysics has changed, so that they can be thought to be other than they are.

In a very real sense, they want to overthrow the world, and remake it in their image.

wv:gxfpkqho - what biting rotten apples tastes like

10/15/2007 08:15:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Julie said... "Sorry, for the lengthy comment... "

To which I can only say, Thanks for the lengthy comment - well said.

Bummed I missed such a good day at OC.

Sigh.

10/15/2007 08:21:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Julie said... "You make a good observation, Magnus"

Heh - Magnus, Johan - Norwegian, Sweede, yeah, they all type alike.

DUCK!!!

;-)

10/15/2007 08:25:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

So many excellent comments today!

Julie said:
"If I could have one wish granted, it would not be for world peace (which would likely result in universal death), but rather world Liberty, based upon the same principles this country was founded on."

And for that enormous phrase of Wisdom, I nominate Julie as the MVP in today's/tonight's discussion!

That is the crux of Bob's post, as I see it.

Is America further away from our founding metaphysic principles?

Yes, we are.

However, our Military continues to draw new recruits who believe just as Julie believes, and just as all Raccoons believe:
Liberty IS the POINT!

Obviously, these new recruits, and those that reenlist, for the most part, and I mean, the vast majority, believe that tenant of faith, if you will, which is to say the Reality and Truth of the matter.

They are who and what defines our country, and they are who and what define the Spirit of our Founding Fathers (and vice versa).

As long as we have such men and women of Honor, there is Hope!

Outstanding post, Bob!
Thanks for (once again) defining the problems and solutions!

And thank you Julie, for the outstanding summary! Your COOnvision is right on!

10/15/2007 09:03:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Van said...
Julie said... "You make a good observation, Magnus"

Heh - Magnus, Johan - Norwegian, Sweede, yeah, they all type alike.

DUCK!!!

;-)


You didn't! Thank God Magnus and Johan have a greay sense of humor!

Right guys? Right? :^)

10/15/2007 09:07:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Great! Great sense of humor!
Sheesh!

10/15/2007 09:09:00 PM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Robin - I have the Answer, but I'm not telling...it's just too dangerous.

wv: aimxrsxz (I kid you not)

10/15/2007 09:10:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Anonymous said...
They hint they have a problem with political blogs, and judging from this blog it is at least as political as religious, if not more political.

Okay, back to the end of the line.
Yes, it's time to re-read all of Bob's posts.
Hey, I'm doin' you a favor!
Yes, time to do some reading.

10/15/2007 09:12:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Alright Nomo...no need to be cryptic,,,you are among friends here...

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout?

10/15/2007 09:14:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Stuart said...
"Joseph,

I don't believe reducing our dependence on Islamic oil will do much to cull hateful Islamic ideologies. In fact, I don't think it is a matter of funding at all."

I concur, Stu!

However, it is refreshing to hear from Joseph and James, with a mixed but honestly put forth, bag of ideas.

You guys keep us on our toes in a non-trollish manner, and I appreciate that. :^)

10/15/2007 09:20:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Aww c'mon you guys and gals!
Let's get out the vote for Bob's tremendouslyiffic blog!
"Bout timee he won an award, I say!
Don't make me pull rank! :^)

10/15/2007 09:28:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Time, dammit! 'Bout time!
Stupid finger!

10/15/2007 09:29:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Johan said:
"Can you therefore blame the oil for the Middle East muslims failure(s)? I guess not, but maybe you can say it's part of the explanation. All (or almost all) countries that have large oil (or natural gas) findings have a tendency to fall into the hands of dictatorship and barbary (Russia is going there, Venzuela is there already). Isn't there a pattern here? These countries, blessed with these gifts, seems to draw corrupt and populistic politicians to them. Like a bear to honey. Can it be that when countries don't have to rely on real development, driven by real economics, they become lazy? Both in body and mind as in spirit."

I agree, Johan.
Certainly when countries, and individuals I would add, don't have to produce any real effort, as in blood, sweat and tears, to engage Reality, we end up with major corruption!

10/15/2007 09:36:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Ben said "
I concur, Stu!

However, it is refreshing to hear from Joseph and James, with a mixed but honestly put forth, bag of ideas.

You guys keep us on our toes in a non-trollish manner, and I appreciate that. :^)"

Same what Ben said.

(Stu!)

10/15/2007 09:39:00 PM  
Blogger Robin Starfish said...

Vote early! Vote often!

10/15/2007 10:22:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Heh! What Robin said!

Good to hear from you Stu!

And what Van said!

10/15/2007 11:47:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

And what River Cocytus and Rick said!
S'O there! :^)

10/15/2007 11:50:00 PM  
Blogger johan.lindahl said...

Yes, a lot of great comments (James, Julie, Van and others) on this one!

No hard feelings for the mix up with Magnus :)

The major conclusion must be that bad metaphysics and natural resources is a very bad combination.

USS Ben:
"blood, sweat and tears to engage Reality"

And this correlates to Intuition, Vision, and Inspiration to engage spirituality (which is reality) (thanks, Unknown Friend for revealing this wisdom for me)

10/16/2007 02:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Joseph said...

I think the effect of Saudi wealth and ideology is greatly underestimated. There exist moderate forms of Islam in the world--Albania, for example. Even Turkey is relatively moderate. It is the Saudis, primarily, that fund and promote global jihad. The Saudis were a zero set before we began our relationship with them. Recently we sold them weapons, and their influence on our politics is deep and astounding.
Now, if those facts should somehow dovetail, accidentally, with Chomsky's ideas, it should be known that I categorically reject his ideology.
I am not at all suggesting that, today, if we stopped buying Saudi or Middle Eastern oil terrorism would vanish. I am referring to neo-marxist ideology that helped to bring us to this point in the first place. A conservative, or classical liberal, would never undermine his economy by becoming completely dependant on a product he could not readily produce himself.
We are where we are, but let's don't pretend its where the founders would have been. I happen to find it useful, even if only theoretically, and illuminating to attempt to trace that trajectory from them to us.
On that note, I've been watching, with my children, a dramatization of the constitutional convention called, "A More Perfect Union". I highly recommend it.

10/16/2007 11:26:00 AM  
Blogger Magnus Itland said...

Well, I guess it is a compliment of sorts to be mistaken for the Cosmic Swede (or the other way around).

10/16/2007 11:39:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

Joseph,

I never meant to actually pair you with chomsky, sorry about that - a poor choice of wording.

"A conservative, or classical liberal, would never undermine his economy by becoming completely dependant on a product he could not readily produce himself.
We are where we are, but let's don't pretend its where the founders would have been."

Not a pretense I'd make either.

"I happen to find it useful, even if only theoretically, and illuminating to attempt to trace that trajectory from them to us."

And well worth examining - almost a necessity for anyone seeking to understand what a Classical Liberal is, and was.

"On that note, I've been watching, with my children, a dramatization of the constitutional convention called, "A More Perfect Union". I highly recommend it."

I haven't come across that one, but there is an audio recording of "Miracle at Philadelphia" which is thoroughly enjoyable.

10/16/2007 07:36:00 PM  
Anonymous joseph said...

Thanks Van

10/17/2007 10:56:00 AM  

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