Sunday, May 06, 2007

Atheism: You Can't Get There From Here

Reader Stephen writes, "I notice you have been recycling some old material lately. Perhaps you should consider a brief respite. I would really hate to see you burn out and have to leave writing for an extended period. I say this because your sense of responsibility to your readers is evident, and you might feel as if you would let us down if you took a few weeks off here and there. Writing is a taxing process. I just caution you not to over-tax yourself."

First of all, I hadn't noticed the repetition, except perhaps in the way that a musician is aware of certain scales that structure the musical space. However, if my improvisions sound repetitive, I suppose that can't be improovised, the reason being that I don't plan anything ahead of time and simply write what rolls down into my cabeza that morning. I only have a vague idea of what I've written in the past, and whatever I write is more or less new to me at the moment I'm writing it. Therefore, it may not be what you need to hear, but it is apparently what I need to learn -- or at least give due coonsideration.

Not to make a big deal out of it, but I'm simultaneously writing and discovering, and I'm pretty sure that my posts must be read in the same adventurous spirit. I hate to tell people what to do, since I know you're as busy as I am, but in order to get anything out of these posts, I sense that they must be read slowly and pondered. They cannot be skimmed without missing the reproduction of the essential experience of "where they're coming from," so to speak. I just don't see how they could possibly be read for mere "content," or by trying to quickly get to the "bottom line."

Needless to say, trolls are only capable of squibbling with the letter, since they concede at the outset that the spirit is inaccessible to them. There's something happening here, but what it is ain't exactly clear to them. In short, they are buffaloed. These tone-deaf clancys don't know why the caged bluebird sings on its way home. I don't claim to be Mr. Soul, but that's my opinion, for what it's worth. Indeed, I am still a child neiling, and a young one at that.

And as I've repeated before, there is definitely a cyclicity to the process. I can tell when a blogging cycle has ended and when one has kicked in, but I have no control over it. That's too deep for me to presume to have any jurisdiction over it. It would be like trying to control the seasons or something. Only Al Gore can do that.

But burnout? No, that's not a problem. In the words of the great ministrel Reverend Hillary, Ah ain't noways t'arred yet, Amos. The only problem is not having enough time to really get into the proper mode of deep receptivity. It takes awhile to penetrate into that space -- I have to kind of work my way into it (or perhaps vice versa). But then Future Leader wakes up, and that pretty much breaks the spiel. I wish I had more timelessness, but that's life.

For example, at this moment, I still have no idea what's ahead -- or below. What shall I write? Let's see. How about a continuation of yesterday's post on the nature of man? Okay. Where shall we start?

Bang.

Did you hear that? That was F.L. kicking his crib, and it's only 4:55. No, he's not awake, but that's a bad sign. Ideally, we'd like him to sleep until 7:00, but lately he's been getting up at 6:00.

See what I mean? Distractions. A race against my son's biological clock. A metaphor for life, which is also a race against the biological clock... which is one reason we know life is not the same as biology.

Hmm. I see that an atheist commenter registered a complaint last night which I do not understand. Nor do I understand why an atheist would have the slightest bit of interest in my blog. I mean, I certainly have no interest in something as intellectually shallow and fatuous as bonehead atheism. The only reason I write about it is to try to help rescue people from its dreary clutches.

Anyway, the commenter wrote that he disagreed with paragraph four from yesterday, in which I said that "in reducing himself to matter, the secularist covertly elevates himself to God, since nothing is higher or lower than anything else -- thus, with a single metaphysical error, the humanist makes a God -- and an ass -- of himself." What I meant to say is that there is nothing lower -- or higher -- than an atheist. Not even -- or especially -- nothing, which is to say, everything.

In response, anonymous wrote that "I just don't see how when somebody doesn't believe in God they 'covertly escalate' their status to God level. God is a not a rank, God is supernatural, and if you don't believe in God that doesn't make you supernatural."

Yes, it does, since belief and rank are both supernatural. The human ability to think is ontologically distinct from matter. To be specific, it is higher. I don't know how it is possible for someone to not know this unless they've received a pretty thorough secular brainwashing.

Therefore, hierarchy exists in the cosmos. Again, a thoroughly banal observation, and I apologize for being repetitive. Hierarchy may only be known because it inheres in light of the Absolute, in the form of degrees of being. In other words, one cannot derive the greater from the lesser.

Specifically, one cannot derive thought -- much less, truth -- from matter. Quality is not just another form of quantity. Nor can semantics be derived from syntax. That is, Truth is not merely the correct arrangement of words. Rather, especially when discussing the deep metaphysics of the cosmos, it is the Truth -- or the Word -- that arranges the words, from the top down. Yes, you could say that I am typing in tongues right now.

Now, if a series of things is hierarchically ordered, it is conditioned from top to bottom and cannot be what the good Hegel called a "bad infinite." Or, if it is horizontally infinite, it cannot be conditioned from top to bottom, and there can be no higher or lower.

It is like the difference between pouring milk into a glass vs. pouring it onto the floor. Because there are archetypal degrees of being -- or evolutionary stations -- when God pours out his creative grace in the form of his involution, the cosmic glass "fills up" -- both personally and impersonally (i.e., whether you are discussing "matter" [which is simply "frozen" or congealed mind] or "mind" [which is an echo of the divine shakti, light, or conscious force]).

Thus, it is not a matter of whether or not you think you believe in God. Rather, to the extent you believe in man -- that man exists and is something clearly distinct from matter and from mere animals -- then you necessarily believe in God. It's just common sense. As Schuon points out, "The very word 'man' implies 'God,'" just as "the very word 'relative' implies 'Absolute.'"

Man is intelligence, the same intelligence that is woven into every corpuscle of this living cosmos. If you want to know what a living and thinking cosmos looks like, you are looking at one. If it were not a living and thinking cosmos, you wouldn't be living here thinking about it. Truth and Life must be nonlocally anterior to their local manifestations, or they would be a strict impossibility, an absurdity -- even a ghastly monstrosity, a cancer on the body of nothingness, as one fellow put it.

And if man is intelligence, he may know truth. Or, to put it another way, if man cannot know truth, then he is not very intelligent, for he "knows" only error, and error is no knowledge at all. If such were the case, man really would be a know-nothing nobody, no better than nothing else.

Now, do not confuse the words I am using with the truth I am conveying. God is inexhaustible, and always transcends any of our formulations of him -- just as DNA could never exhaust Life, nor is there a single mathematical equation that could exhaust mathematical truth -- much less, explain how it is that mathematical truth can be woven into the cosmos, just waiting for our minds to discover it.

Religious truth must be experienced, not just known. Therefore, it requires an irreducible cosmic category called experience or conscious being. There is no atheistic philosophy that can account for being, let allone, conscious being. There can be no conscious being unless there is a Conscious Being. Religion is simply the "scientific" inquiry into (and return to) this Conscious Being.

It's as simple as that.

However, needless to say, approaching this Conscious Being is very different from the study of matter, in which case we may create a bright (but artificial) line between mind and matter, or subject and object. But there is no such bright line in religion, since it involves a subject attempting to understand its own source -- like an eye trying to "see" vision, or a hand trying to grasp grasping. Therefore, in the final analysis, God is both the subject and object of religion. He is what is known, but he is also the knower. To paraphrase Eckhart, "the same eye with which I see God is eye with which God sees me."

As such, a big part of spiritual development simply involves "getting out of the way," something that the postmodern, egocentric narcissist has a great deal of difficulty doing. Why? Because he is proud. And why is he proud? I have no idea. You'll have to tell me, for there is no reason for a meaningless clump of matter to feel proud of itself. Unless -- unless it covertly thinks that it is God. Then atheism makes total sense, for it proves the existence of God.

Look at it this way. As Schuon writes, "To say that man is the measure of all things is meaningless unless one starts from the idea that God is the measure of man, or that the absolute is the measure of the relative, or again, that the universal Intellect is the measure of individual existence; nothing is fully human that is not determined by the Divine, and therefore centered on it. Once man makes of himself a measure, while refusing to be measured in turn, or once he makes definitions while refusing to be defined by what transcends him and gives him all his meaning, all human reference points disappear; cut off from the Divine, the human collapses."

Does this lucid paragraph require any further explanation, or would that simply be repetitive?

Perhaps just a little. After all, there are always new readers, people coming and going, for whom this is not the same old same moldy sayings.

Three things you must know about man on pain of not being one: that man may know truth; that man is free; and that man may transcend himself by dispassionately discerning good and evil. And if we can know the truth or will the good, then we must do so, no?

Another way of saying it is that man is made of truth, will, and virtue; or knowledge, freedom, and beauty. The point is that our knowledge frees us from matter; that our freedom liberates us from animal instinct; and that our beauty frees us from meaninglessness.

There is nothing more beautiful than God, and in fact, nothing so beautiful could possibly be untrue. But only if you experience the truth of this beauty in the depths of your opened -- or possibly broken -- heart. You will know this is happening if you shed tears of joy upon hearing it, which occurs when we touch the divine plane, and are thereby touched -- or when the prodigal subject returns to the loving embrace of its Subject.

That's it for today. He's up.

To say that man is made of intelligence, will and sentiment, means that he is made for the Truth, the Way, and Virtue. In other words: intelligence is made for comprehension of the True; will, for concentration on the Sovereign Good; and sentiment, for conformity to the True and the Good. Instead of "sentiment," we could also say "soul" or “faculty of loving,” for this is a fundamental dimension of man; not a weakness as it is all too often thought, but a participation in the Divine Nature, in conformity with the mystery that “God is Love.” --F. Schuon

96 Comments:

Blogger Smoov said...

First of all, I hadn't noticed the repetition, except perhaps in the way that a musician is aware of certain scales that structure the musical space. However, if my improvisions sound repetitive, I suppose that can't be improovised, the reason being that I don't plan anything ahead of time and simply write what rolls down into my cabeza that morning. I only have a vague idea of what I've written in the past, and whatever I write is more or less new to me at the moment I'm writing it. Therefore, it may not be what you need to hear, but it is apparently what I need to learn -- or at least give due coonsideration


Bob,

As I've written here several times before, it is the "repetition" which for me makes this site so compelling and valuable. Deep spiritual insights are not the sort of thing that can be explained in one post, in the way I make my technical people boil concepts down to a one-page precis before they get funding. It takes many "passes" over the same territory at slightly different angles of attack in order to gradually facilitate understanding in someone like me. I can't just read OCUG and "get it". I'm on my second reading now, and expect I'll read it many times over the years.

As for "burning out", well, I've been in business for a while and have not yet burned out despite the workload because I love doing it.

Please keep up the writing, and I for one encourage repetition as a means of gradually enlightening readers.

5/06/2007 08:15:00 AM  
Blogger Lisa said...

I second Smoov's comments. I have also said in comments before that the body also needs repetition of correct movement patterns to establish them as the norm. I heard somewhere that it takes a muscle about six million repititions before it creates a memory. Unfortunately, I usually see people after about their six million and tenth time and have to start back at one trying to establish movement patterns in their correct alignment. Ha ha! ;) It takes time and persistence and consistency just like reading/writing Bob's posts. Basically what we are both trying to do is break people out of their conditioned way of moving and thinking taking the path of effortless centering and grace to create a better way of living and moving. At least that's the hope...

My favorite quote in todays post is "There is nothing more beautiful than God, and in fact, nothing so beautiful could possibly be untrue. But only if you experience the truth of this beauty in the depths of your opened -- or possibly broken -- heart. You will know this is happening if you shed tears of joy upon hearing it, which occurs when we touch the divine plane, and are thereby touched -- or when the prodigal subject returns to the loving embrace of its Subject."

Amen!

5/06/2007 08:43:00 AM  
Anonymous generic troll said...

It's getting harder to get a rise out of anyone on this blog or to score any points.

Give me some help here: what are the insecurities and fears of raccoons? Where is the soft spot? Where is the place where the cement hasn't hardened yet?

Not that you have any responsibility to help the enemy; do it as a test. Bare your chest to the opponent and see if you are bullet-proof.

5/06/2007 08:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Sawdust said...

I don't think you need to worry about burnout any time soon, not after reading this post. I usually find myself reading a particurly good posting twice, a paragraph at a time, then the whole thing again. This one, having accomplished the above, I will read to a friend who has diabetes and has lost much of her vision. Then I will doubtless read again several times in the future. Those tears of joy? Yes, I have just shed a few. Thank you for that.

I, too, am in full agreement with smoov. Just about every paragraph contained a "favorite quote" or a huge chunk of wisdom, often both.

5/06/2007 08:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Petey said...

Our soft spot is obviously our love of trolls and our unselfish desire to help their eternal souls in any way we can.

5/06/2007 08:56:00 AM  
Blogger juliec said...

I'll third those sentiments.

Repetition is one of the ways in which we do faith. Also, there's a difference between circling and spiraling, and it seems to me that here at least we are spiraling in and up. The same ground may be approached, but each time from a slightly different perspective, one which is elevated by the previous passes in much the same way a soaring hawk is lifted by circling on heated air. The hawk may soar over the same patch of ground, but with each pass he is higher above it and so has a different perspective.

5/06/2007 08:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Sawdust said...

generic troll; exactly what is your point of being here? Exactly what do you hope to accomplish in the next few hours or days? Just curious.

5/06/2007 08:59:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

"Yes, it does, since belief and rank are both supernatural. The human ability to think is ontologically distinct from matter."

Not sure if it was fully topically appropriate, but this prompted a long and lingering bout of laughter from me. Not an ISS burst, thankfully, since I was tempting the fates reading while eating my cereal - and my 7 yr old would have been in the line of fire (please don't call child care services on me), but long gentle chuckling laughs... long enough to get that 'Daddy, you're so wieerd' look. Just one of those hidden in plain sight forever bobservations that seem SO obvious after being pointed out. ahAH!.

For all of my being a fan of 'Heirarchy', to not have seen that... ahh, the gentle, somewhat chiding laughter continues....

(It's alright dear, Daddy's fine....)

Oh my...

5/06/2007 08:59:00 AM  
Blogger Lisa said...

Ha Ha, I wonder if this generic troll is all wrapped up in white with black letters across his forehead that say TROLL and a barcode label above the crack of his ass?! Too precious!

*Pats troll on head, feels slight pity, then gives him a quick swift kick to the nuts! Run along...

5/06/2007 09:02:00 AM  
Anonymous lurker uncloaking said...

G-Bob said...
"However, needless to say, approaching this Conscious Being is very different from the study of matter, in which case we may create a bright (but artificial) line between mind and matter, or subject and object. But there is no such bright line in religion, since it involves a subject attempting to understand its own source -- like an eye trying to "see" vision, or a hand trying to grasp grasping."

I beg to differ. (Pretty prettyplease, may I?) There IS such bright line in religion...but it doesn't divide the subject from the object, it connects them. I speak from personal experience here, since I was "blinded by the light" and "once was blind. but now I see"! What I mainly see is that God has Great sense of humor...He made ME after all...! (I think, therefor God laughs...)

5/06/2007 09:04:00 AM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Lurker Uncloaking:

You are, of course, absolutely correct. There is a line of separation that connects man and God -- or a line of connection that separates them.

5/06/2007 09:09:00 AM  
Anonymous walt said...

Smoov, and the initial posters said it all, as far as I'm concerned. I mean, seen from a slightly different angle, 'repetition' could be 'celebration,' right?

5/06/2007 09:09:00 AM  
Anonymous lurker uncloaking said...

OH RAHXZALLBOOOGERS ON TOAST!!!
Somehow I managed to DOUBLE-POST!!!
This 21st century technology is SOOOO conooofsing!!!
POO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5/06/2007 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger MizzE said...

>>>"Does this lucid paragraph require any further explanation?"<<<

No, but it does deserve an exclamation point from Shirley Caesar.

5/06/2007 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

"I notice you have been recycling some old material lately."

Yeah, yeah, I've noticed it too. Just like Mozart using the same tired old notes, over and over and over. I mean basically, you hear one stanza, and you've heard it all.

I mean, how many Virtues are there? What could possibly be said of interest to anyone interested in Virtue and Understanding, after you've listed them?

Puh-lease.

(a well intentioned word to the wizening, if you're cataloging and looking at Thought, by the shiny words used to convey it, as if matchbox cars collection "Ah, already have a blue '67 mustang. What a gip", you're probably missing something. Something a little deeper than the surface.)

Play on maestro, play on....

5/06/2007 09:19:00 AM  
Anonymous lurker uncloaking said...

in the time it took me to berate my self for double posting...the inadvertant double posting dissappeared! Spoooooooky!

wv-qdopesd (rub it in, why dooncha!)

5/06/2007 09:24:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

As Sawdust and Smoove said, I usually read the post a couple times, and then enjoy reading the qoutes that my fellow raccoons have pulled - almost invariably there will be something, some shade I hadn't noticed or fully gotten on my reading.

Gotta love it.

Repitition only breeds boredom in relation to the lack of depth in the material. A ball being dropped over and over gets boring quick. Like splashing on the pool steps, you see all there is to see after a few drops and splashes.

Physics can take you to the edge of the deep end, but "32 feet per second per second" in and of itself, gets fleshed out pretty quickly as well.

But an OC post, like a poem, or a psalm floats you out over the depthless end, and you soon realize that no matter how often you dive down into it, the bottom will be farther down than you've come.

But each dive builds up your lung power, and you're able to swim a little deeper each time, sinking and swimming at the same time.

Exilarating.

5/06/2007 09:39:00 AM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"Yes, you could say that I am typing in tongues right now."

Indeed! This entire post is infused with O->k goodness!
I agree wholeheartedly with Smoov and Lisa!
Recycling opens up new mysteries and helps me "unlearn" the "downward spiral" thinking I have picked up and reinforces the upward spiral of being.

Will mentioned "tipping points", on an individual and collective basis.
To reach it is just the beginning of the journey, but the revelations (past, present and future) keep flowing from that tipping point, as long as we look through the same eye that God is looking through.

Wooo! I'm overflowing at the moment.
Time to digest for awhile before I dig in again.

Super post, B'ob!

5/06/2007 09:42:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

generic troll said "Give me some help here"

Try saying something that hasn't been said before. Like the ball bouncing, or splashing on the steps of the pool - you've got no depth. You're boring. Bring us some real thoughts to think on.

I realize that's probably self cancelling, thinking and trolls, but do try.

5/06/2007 09:43:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

Lurker Uncloaking said "I think, therefore God laughs"

Heh-heh.

'I think therefore I AM' (Biblically speaking)

5/06/2007 09:49:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

Lurker Uncloaking said "...the inadvertant double posting dissappeared!"

All part of Cousin Dupree's wetworks and janitorial services.

5/06/2007 09:51:00 AM  
Anonymous walt said...

Another aspect: I've noticed that re-reading material you've written in the past TIED IN WITH, or embedded into a current theme, has a certain urgency, or relevance to it that helps ME read it with fresh eyes. When I simply select a post from the archives, my mind is much less focused, and I have a much more "blurred" impression. There's much to be said for re-PRESENT-ing the material.

(I hope Stephen doesn't take any of this wrong; I'm sure none of us want you to bop 'til you drop!)

5/06/2007 10:14:00 AM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Walt-
B'ob doesn't bop, he bobs, which is why he's the big Bobber. :^)
Although he does bop trolls, to try and get them to think for themselves when the possibility presents itself.

5/06/2007 10:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know I posted that comment you referred to in todays post. A) I'm not an atheist. B) Just to inform you that even if you believe that belief and rank are supernatural, atheists do not obviously.
The original claim is people putting themselves on the level of God, my rebuttal being people aren't supernatural. You then claim the supernatural connection to human though, but how it relates to atheists putting themselves on God's level still does not apply because they do not believe that.
But then after not addressing the actual issue you hint you believe me to not believe in what you've just wrote and you hint I've been brainwashed. By secularism. Ad hominem. I also asked that people not be so base as to refer to use such poor arguments as a fallacious attack against character.
I'm just saying.

I also don't see how throwing in something that doesn't relate to your posts makes them better. I even believe I said it would have been a good read otherwise. If were talking about theism, why are we even mentioning atheism? If you want to save them there's a much better way than what you are doing.

I'm glad my comment caught your attention. I was hoping for a more reasonable response. But you called me an atheist, there's no indication of such. I merely pointed out the poor logic saying atheist contradict themselves by your example. Note that if I were an atheist, I probably would have been saying WE every time I mentioned them instead of THEY.

But obviously disagreeing with you makes me secularist, atheist, liberal, or leftist.

Instead of hinting I'm a brainwashed secularist because your wrong interpretation of me, you could have merely left it at your original argument.

I don't believe I've personally labeled you anything, or even attacked your character, and if I have I assure you I haven't attacked your character based on traits you do not exhibit.

5/06/2007 10:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

*human though, should be human thought.

5/06/2007 10:31:00 AM  
Anonymous cousin Dupree said...

Should be, but it's not.

5/06/2007 10:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

*human though, should be human thought.

No I was referring to my own post. I was intending to point out an edit. And also while I'm at it I say "were" when it should be "we're"

5/06/2007 10:43:00 AM  
Blogger robinstarfish said...

Mobius
first go to line two
of an infinite haiku
then return to one

5/06/2007 10:44:00 AM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

My apologies. I thought you were one of those thin-skinned atheists. But you're just thin-skinned.

5/06/2007 10:45:00 AM  
Anonymous cousin dupree said...

anon:

I was referring to your post as well. It should be human thought, but somehow it doesn't quite get there.

5/06/2007 10:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Again with the labeling. Awesome. I'm glad I could expect an intelligible response.

5/06/2007 10:48:00 AM  
Anonymous cousin dupree said...

What's with the mislabeling? Please, it's not labeling. It's ridiculing. Good natured, of course.

5/06/2007 10:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sorry I was referring to bob.

What is thin skinned? Do I really fit the definition? Probably not.

5/06/2007 10:53:00 AM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Thin-skinned and querulous.

5/06/2007 10:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For cousin dupree, when I was saying human thought I was referring to what he was saying in today's post. I probably didn't sufficiently summarize it, but then again I'm sure everybody read it.

5/06/2007 10:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe if you'd actually address my complaints I wouldn't be.

5/06/2007 10:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let me just point out that you have not offended me. I merely search for reason, you have yet to provide.

5/06/2007 10:59:00 AM  
Anonymous cousin dupree said...

Exactly when do you express human thought? And if you did, didn't you make Bob's point?

5/06/2007 10:59:00 AM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Sorry. The heart has reasons reason doesn't understand.

5/06/2007 11:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Huh? Dupree you misunderstand. Of course I prove Bobs point, but explain why that matters to atheism? That's my argument. Bob's point and my own are different.

5/06/2007 11:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I really need to start pointing out who I am actually addressing. My apologies I must be confusing people.

5/06/2007 11:09:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

Annonymous of "10:30:00 AM" said "You then claim the supernatural connection to human thought, but how it relates to atheists putting themselves on God's level still does not apply because they do not believe that. "

The reception of your initial comment can be seen from your obtuse reading of this, and the rest of your comment really broke contact with the rest of the post and any sensible reading of it. Gagdad didn't say "putting themselves on God's level" as a supernatural equivalent of Dracula turning into a bat. It means seeing the world as existing above the level of a cockroach. Try to get your head above the level of cheesy horror flicks.

Not "atheists putting themselves on God's level" as intentionally making and holding themselves to be 'magical beings', but as the source of values, for which no further justification is required or exists. Try looking on the level that Protagoras did when he said "Man is the measure of all things", meaning that the individual is the source of value and is his own moral law (if he sees or recognizes any at all) rather than a God or other mystical rules.

The typical leftie Athiest most certainly does do this. If you believe that there is nothing higher than you, then you put yourself, or some designated hitter (such as the Gov or chemistry), as your source or arbiter of values and morals.

There's two directions things can go from there. The typical leftie athiestic track, is to claim that there is no such thing as higher truth, no value more valuable than other values, etc, they see Talking Sssnake stories as implicitly heirarchical, and so invalid, fascist, etc.

The other, and more infrequent track, is the Objectivist track which sees Heirarchy as a natural result of the human mind, who believes that Truth is merely a factual identification of the properties of the Universe, that all heirarchy, human rights, and the individual soul all flow from natural physics and reality, with no higher spirit pre-existing or required.

Interestingly, the Fundamentalist and The Objectivist athiest sees Talking Sssnake stories as flat stories to be taken literally and absolutely . The difference being that the Fundies take them at flat value as the word of god, and get little else from them, but rigid rules and regulations freeing them from the tiresome business of thinking for themselves. The Objectivist athiest, and most conservative athiest's, see them as flat stories for the credulous, they see this type of 'supernatural' as being on the level of 'Dracula turning into a bat', and never look for the heirarchy so inherent in it, and get nothing further out of them.

They would be absolutely horrified to find out how much their philosophical truths agree with, and complement religous truths, if they were to risk looking at the Talking sssnake stories in more depth.

Instead of assuming that "Instead of hinting I'm a brainwashed secularist because your wrong interpretation of me", you might want to consider that we took you to believe the obvious implications of your wrong interpretation of the initial post.

If you are going to make such unavoidably absurd pronouncements, rather than asking genuine questions, expect to be whacked for it. Read some more, read deeper. Ask & discuss, don't declare your silly assumptions and expect to be taken seriously.

5/06/2007 11:27:00 AM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Anonymous:

Why don't you start over and succinctly register your complaint in a way that cannot be misunderstood? Because I don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. If it's worthy of a serious response, I'll be happy to give it one.

5/06/2007 11:30:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

Oh, and Gagdad? Cousin Dupree?

Thanks so much for that "Who's on First?" adaptation with Annonymous - that was a blast!

5/06/2007 11:37:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

Robinstarfish - Mobius!

5/06/2007 11:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You probably should read it a second time. What you just said about what I said, was totally not where I was going. So who interpreted whom wrongly?

What you clarified I already knew. I was trying to make an example.

What is the hard part of believing that if you don't believe in a God you don't believe in a God? Why must you assume there is a hierarchy?

If you do not believe in god, is there a hierarchy? Maybe you should answer that first. You may believe in it, but how can you accuse somebody for something they haven't done?

SO

Basically I'm saying if YOU think ATHEISTS are putting themselves on the level you've attempted to clarify for me, THEY do not see that in themselves.
You're applying your beliefs to them, how can you do that when they have completely opposite views?
If you didn't believe in a God, you couldn't accuse them of what they've been accused. They don't believe in a God. How can you say that ideal still applies? Accusing them of such does not make it so either.

If an apple doesn't believe in a tree, the other apples can't accuse him of trying to be a tree. Got it?

That's my simplest viewpoint. I can't break it down any further.

5/06/2007 11:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bob,

My question is, why are you bigoted?

If you have relevant and insightful viewpoints, what is your issue with pointing out the problems in other people? You seem to have less of a problem with their beliefs than them believing in what they believe.

They're not going to change for you.

And here I have people arguing hierarchies, and it doesn't apply, and they don't understand why, and they keep referring to it.
"There must be a void that has to be filled."
No there doesn't.

"You don't understand the hierarchy."
No I do, it doesn't apply.

Not saying I don't believe it, buy, read the apples and tree comment.

5/06/2007 11:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess to Van I suppose that you believe that there isn't any morals that couldn't come from god? That's why atheists are gods? They make their own morals? That would be you recognizing Atheists as gods. Not somebody recognizing himself as one. And if all morals are god-given why do so many have different morals?

Surely we're smarter than that, and if that's what was meant then I'm sorry I found that too absurd to be believable, which would be why I didn't understand it.

5/06/2007 12:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I do understand what you're saying tho, I pushed it over the ledge for sarcasm, in hopes of making some connection.

5/06/2007 12:11:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Anonymous said "You probably should read it a second time. What you just said about what I said, was totally not where I was going. So who interpreted whom wrongly? What you clarified I already knew. I was trying to make an example."

Is he serious?

"What is the hard part of believing that if you don't believe in a God you don't believe in a God? Why must you assume there is a hierarchy?"

Got your point just fine. Can't help you out. Go back and rerereead and see if you can find what everyone else found.

Scratch the promotion to Anonymous, back to aninnymouse.

Time to mow the lawn.

5/06/2007 12:13:00 PM  
Anonymous walt said...

Bob,
My wife, who is a big fan but a dedicated lurker, says that the way she knows that "repetition" is a good thing, is that she no longer experiences "a spontaneous inner-groan" when she encounters a quote from Schuon! (A sure sign of progress!)

We both thought that this little paragraph toward the end was about as pithy as we could want:

"Another way of saying it is that man is made of truth, will, and virtue; or knowledge, freedom, and beauty. The point is that our knowledge frees us from matter; that our freedom liberates us from animal instinct; and that our beauty frees us from meaninglessness."

And that really sums it up about the Left, doesn't it: matter, animal instinct, and meaninglessness - the "perfume" of soul death.

(For up-to-the-minute illustrations, check out how the Left is acting in France today.)

5/06/2007 12:17:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

aninnymouse said "Surely we're smarter than that"

Depends on who is saying 'we'.

"I pushed it over the ledge for sarcasm, in hopes of making some connection."

troll = aninnymouse

Connection made.

To mow I go.

5/06/2007 12:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, I'm very serious. And I'm sorry you can't provide enough evidence to prove the need for the hierarchy. All you have done is proven you can't support your beliefs.

5/06/2007 12:19:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Inte,
Yesterday's comment with Walt wasn't an invitation. Go away with your silly aping of thought.

I only stopped because the wordverif that popped up after last post was
wv:anoiyg
It certainly is. Now it's off to mow I go.

5/06/2007 12:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I'm glad your best arguments have been ad-hominem. Just goes to show, I haven't tried to be disrespectful at all, but man I've heard more names than logical conclusions.
What has philosophy come to?

5/06/2007 12:24:00 PM  
Blogger Lisa said...

Question for anony: What do you believe in? Why should anyone even believe you exist and why does it even matter to my life?

5/06/2007 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger Nick said...

Two quotes from C.S. Lewis...

"The ancient man approached God (or even gods) as the accused person approaches a judge. For the modern man, roles are reversed. He is the judge: God is in the dock. He is quite a kindly judge: if God should have a reasonable defense for being the god who permits war, poverty and disease, he is ready to listen to it. The trial may even end in God's acquittal. But the important thing is that Man is on the bench and God in the dock."

As a former troll/secularist the above quote, citing "modern man", perfectly described who I was. It also shows another way in which we place ourselves in the position of God.... and how pride destroys us by cutting us off from the Divine (as He resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble).

Last quote here by Lewis and I'll leave the balance of the comments here to the more intelligent and intelligible posters...

"The strength of such a critic lies in the words 'merely' or 'nothing but'. He sees all the facts but not the meaning. Quite truly, therefore, he claims to have sen all the facts. There is nothing else there; except the meaning. He is therefore, in regards to the matter at hand, in the position of an animal. You will notice that most dogs cannot understand pointing. You point to a bit of food on the floor: the dog, instead of looking at the floor, sniffs at your finger. A finger is a finger to him, that is all. His world is all fact and no meaning. And in a period when factual realism is dominant we shall find people deliberately inducing upon themselves this dog-like mind. A man who has experienced love from within will deliberately go about to inspect it analytically from outside and regard the results of this analysis as truer than the experience. The extreme limitations of this self-blinding is seen in those, who like the rest of us, have consciousness, yet go about to study the human organism as if they did not know it was conscious. As long as this deliberate refusal to understand things from above, even where such an understanding is possible, continues, it is idle to talk of any final victory over materialism. The critique of every experience from below, the voluntary ignoring of meaning and the concentration on fact, will always have the same plausibility. There will always be evidence, and every month fresh evidence, to show that religion is only psychological, justice only self-protection, politics only economics, love only lust, and thought itself only cerebral biochemistry."

5/06/2007 01:01:00 PM  
Anonymous georged said...

I can hear few notes of a great composition and I frequently can name it. Bach and Handel are distinct and readily identifiable (as Bach or Handel) but I don't want to give up on anything they have written.

Frequently a great compostion seems to contain itself within a few chords. It makes all the rest of the composition more compelling.

Keep writing. If anyone feels bored they can check out.

5/06/2007 01:07:00 PM  
Anonymous walt said...

An aside -

Yesterday, Biker Lady recommended "The Paradox of Secular Scientism" at the American Thinker site, and I agree, it is excellent. I will try to link it here or find it at americanthinker.com.

5/06/2007 01:11:00 PM  
Blogger Nick said...

Last comment here... I think most will find this interesting...

"In a seminal fMRI lie detection study, Daniel Langleben and colleagues at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine gave volunteers a playing card and a handheld yes/no clicker. The subjects were told to lie when shown a question that would reveal their card, but to answer other queries honestly (see illustration on the opposite page). When these people gave truthful answers, the fMRI showed increased activity in parts of the brain related to vision and finger movement. When they lied, the same areas lit up—but so did areas in the front part of the brain that have been shown to regulate decision making in the presence of rival information. "They activate when you make a choice unconsciously," Langleben says. Which means, he adds, that lying apparently takes more mental effort than telling the truth.

"Truth is the baseline," he says. "St. Augustine was right when he defined deception as intentional denial of truth. If you don't know the truth, you can't lie."

Langleben's research is noteworthy because it demonstrated that it's possible to see the physical differences between lying and truth telling within the brain. But though Langleben's work pinpointed a few locations that are active during deception, he and scientists involved in similar studies caution that lying is a complex behavior, and that it's likely to be linked to a large number of brain sites, many of which remain unknown."

5/06/2007 01:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good question.
I believe in life, which is enough for me to believe in spirit, which is enough for me to believe in God.
As for why people should believe I exist or matter: Simply put, they shouldn't. "Why?" exactly. I am but a wall of words with arguably some intelligible structure. Hardly a sign that a man(or woman?)like me truly exists.

5/06/2007 01:42:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Inty said " am but a wall of words with arguably some intelligible structure."

No, actually not. Arguing implies that two points are held, one of which may be proven more correct than another, which requires some form of heirarchy.

Deny Heirarchy, deny arguability, therefore like the joke of Descartes replying "I think not" to the bartenders question of "Would you like a beer?" - Poof! You dissappear.

Ahhh. Lawn mowed, beer in hand, relaxing on the deck, 7 yr old sitting next to me reading. Gotta love laptops & PocketPC's. Life is good.

"Hardly a sign that a man(or woman?)like me truly exists. " Too true Inty, too true.

5/06/2007 01:57:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Nick,
Interesting info.

5/06/2007 01:59:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

sigh. And then reality rears it's ugly head.

Wife: "Eew... you stink. Go take a shower."

Each man's home his Castle, my butt.

Sheesh.

5/06/2007 02:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Zophiel said...

Bob,

||: I shall repeat the other commenters and say that I appreciate the repetition. :||

I'm new in these here parts, and I feel a little less lost when things are repeated, since for me they're shiney with newness.

Freedom! Beauty! Truth! (DaCapo al Fine) ||

5/06/2007 02:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Sal said...

I vote for "lather, rinse, repeat", as well.
OC needs to be sipped.
If you drink it in great draughts, then there's too much to assimilate.
This leads to the burning of toast and forgetting to turn on the dryer.
Your brain and spirit are having a swell time, the rest of the family-not so much.

Novel readers? Robertson Davies' "The Rebel Angels" - very coonish.

5/06/2007 02:33:00 PM  
Anonymous In other words... said...

ole BoB said:

"Needless to say, trolls are only capable of squibbling with the letter, since they concede at the outset that the spirit is inaccessible to them. There's something happening here, but what it is ain't exactly clear to them. In short, they are buffaloed. These tone-deaf clancys don't know why the caged bluebird sings on its way home. I don't claim to be Mr. Soul, but that's my opinion, for what it's worth. Indeed, I am still a child neiling, and a young one at that."

Yo,Yo,Yo Dawwg...check it out....tunes not to be missed on this Sunday...

Poco: Pickin and a Grinnin

"Well there's just a little bit of magic
In the country music we're singin'
So let's begin
We're bringin' you back down home where the folks are happy
Sittin' pickin' and a-grinnin'
Casually, you and me
We'll Pick Up The Pieces, uh-huh

Somebody yelled out at me
Country music and company kind of makes it
On a Sunday afternoon
Picnic lunches of yesterday
Should still have a place in your heart today
Think it over
'Cause we'll all be goin' home so soon
(Repeat first verse)"

and then jus watch your happy feet wit dis ole fav.....

It'll Shine When It Shines..


"the old cat on the roof

he could stand a little push

'cause he's got nine good lives to live

but like my momma said

you only live till you're dead

and you got to give and give and give



there's a pebble in the pond

goin' on and on,

makin' waves and tides and ripples and rings

there's a leaf in the wind

that don't know where to end

chasin' days and ways and wishes and dreams



seems like ev'ry one

is out lookin' for the sun

singin' rain and pain on he who hesitates

but it'll shine when it shines

you might think I'm wastin' time

but I'm just a good old boy that's learned to wait



whippoorwill's in the dawn

pretty soon, he'll be gone

and he's got one good song to sing

but like my daddy said,

it's in your heart, not your head

and you got to sing and sing and sing



there's a window in the wall

lookin' out on it all

leavin' fears and tears and troubles alone

there's a fire in the stove

keepin' out the cold,

warmin' wine and winters and babies and homes



seems like ev'ry one

is out lookin' for the sun

singin' rain and pain on he who hesitates

but it'll shine when it shines

you might think I'm wastin' time

but I'm just a good old boy that's learned to wait


yes, I'm just a good old boy that's learned to wait"


Dear BoB....HeartSong never gets old from replay and all of us have strings yet untouched....so never quit your AM job!!

YoYoYo man

5/06/2007 03:34:00 PM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

I understand. Without the understanding of the absolute, everything is nonsense.

If you had made yourself a God you'd never know it.

Well, until you pass from the material to the hereafter; then you would have the rest of untime to unthink about your unbelief.

But what happens during the dreaming before death? No-one knows.

I wouldn't wait until the 11th hour myself.

Same pay, though.

Just because you can't comprehend that while everyone has different 'moral ideas' there are a transcendant set of morals or ethics - and believing that you are the one who ultimately determines them places you in the position of the Source of Good; God himself.

That is a simple as it gets. Until you recognize the creator, the author and originator, the involuter himself this will be foolishness to you. Which of course, The Man predicted it would be.

Go figure.

5/06/2007 03:35:00 PM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Interesting. I have hundreds of great books, nearly all of which I've read at least once. But in what do I find myself investing my thought time each day? The Bible and the "Boble" - over and over and over and over again...

Not tired yet. Thanks yet again Bob and fellow 'coons for keeping it Real.

I busted my old butt in yard and garden today - now I think I hear something lovely and red in a bottle calling my name - NoMo, NoMo, hee, hee. Later.

wv: kgrgfech (yep, just how I feel)

5/06/2007 04:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Happiness is the now-and-forever Mystery that Is the Real Heart and the Only Real God of every one.

Happiness Is the Conscious Light of the world.

Not much happiness to be found on this blog or the acolytes that post on the comments section.

5/06/2007 06:04:00 PM  
Anonymous cousin dupree said...

Well, thanks alot for bringing so much joy in here and spoiling the mood.

5/06/2007 06:17:00 PM  
Anonymous walt said...

Let's see....shall I believe the Grinch, or shall I carry-on with my illusion of happiness...?

Easy choice.

5/06/2007 06:18:00 PM  
Anonymous cousin dupree said...

That's what you call you call a pain in the astral body.

5/06/2007 06:22:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Apes are persons and human beings are the AIDs of the earth.

That pretty much says it all.

5/06/2007 07:05:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Oh yes, one more modest proposal: eat your children.

5/06/2007 07:08:00 PM  
Anonymous In other words... said...

Anonymous said...

"Happiness is the now-and-forever Mystery that Is the Real Heart and the Only Real God of every one.

Happiness Is the Conscious Light of the world.

Not much happiness to be found on this blog or the acolytes that post on the comments section."

Happiness, as viewed by a Troll is an emotion, an up or down phenomenon and a derivative of Ego, whereas Peacefulness, viewed as a Coon is a state of Being, a result of Self Mastership and a precursor to Spiritual understanding. H/T to Petey?

sq

5/06/2007 07:09:00 PM  
Anonymous walt said...

I say to Mr. Watson, "You first - and don't you worry, we'll all be right behind you...."

5/06/2007 07:11:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Interestingly, Thomas Barnett argues that world population will reach a peak in about 2050, and then start falling off by itself, so long as we SPUR ECONOMIC GROWTH in undeveloped nations, since developed nations have far fewer children. As usual, the left has it precisely backwards, because their policies will retard development and cause more population (and more pollution).

5/06/2007 07:45:00 PM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

In Simcity 4, the best way to combat industrial pollution is to allow a plethora of polluting industry so you can afford the education necessary to support low-polluting industry, which replaces it and solves your pollution problem.

Amusing to watch young'ins try to force their city to be pollution free by fiat. It just don't work that way.

Space is caallllling...

wv: woohwt!

5/06/2007 07:49:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

aninnymouse said "Happiness Is the Conscious Light of the world. Not much happiness to be found on this blog or the acolytes that post on the comments section."

Somehow... I'll bet you find that to be the case wherever you go. But I'll bet your going leaves lots of smiles behind you.

5/06/2007 08:29:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

From the 'eat your children' link, "The effect on the planet of having one child less is an order of magnitude greater than all these other things we might do, such as switching off lights."

Doesn't that sum up the left well? They view a child as being drains on the environment and a burden equivalent to having to switch off the lights.

Whereas Classical Liberals see them as not only the ultimate joy and even purpose, but also as The Ultimate Resource

5/06/2007 08:38:00 PM  
Anonymous In other words... said...

You Da Man, Van !!

sq

5/06/2007 08:39:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Another variant on The Ultimate Resource

5/06/2007 08:39:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

My gosh... I can't get over how that just highlights the differences. So clearly illustrates the sick state of the eco-green(with envy)leftist mind.

They would rather assume a crises and impose 'reforms' on others, see children as burdens on the world, than acknowledge demonstrable facts, repeatedly proven... denounce and condemn the value that we are... that life IS.

Gut wrenchingly tragic. Sick.

5/06/2007 08:57:00 PM  
Anonymous hoarhey said...

In the Spring, on calm clear days, I sometimes hear the call of gulls high in the sky. Looking out into infinity I can see them on their annual migration.
Finding a thermal, they spiral up and down, circling around a perfect cylinder of invisible energy as a light, easterly breeze slowly moves them to the west, across the sky to their ultimate destination.


Thanks Bob for sharing with us daily, your own spiraling on invisible energy, and helping me along my way.

5/06/2007 10:20:00 PM  
Anonymous a troll this way comes said...

Well I for one don't like Bob's harping on the same subjects repeatedly.

He says he relies on his muse Petey or other divine aflatus, but I think half the time its just his own mind putting out the same recycled stuff and thinking that it comes from the divine aflatus.

Two words: quality control.

Bob has not evolved perceptibly in a long time; his viewpoints today are what they were two years ago. He never admits to any errors in his thinking, and never recants anything.

I'd like to see Bob try to write a post about how his metaphysics and thinking have changed over the course of the last two years, becasue I know he THINKS he's changed.

And what's more--

Newcomer trolls to this blog are taunted as if they were children on a playground (see today's poor anonymous).

WTF? You call that spiritual? Shame on you four-eyed Jesus freaks and molly-boys (especially you, Van, yes you).

So whatcha going to do, huh? Huh? How do you like it?

5/06/2007 11:47:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"As such, a big part of spiritual development simply involves "getting out of the way," something that the postmodern, egocentric narcissist has a great deal of difficulty doing."

As evidenced by this:

"a troll this way comes said...
Well I for one don't like Bob's harping on the same subjects repeatedly."

Tough shit.

And then:
"a troll said: blah blah I want...blah...Bob isn't evolving...blah blah...I want..."

How does it feel to want and not get? Why do you feel that way, troll filled with pride?
Don't answer that, just rail against the man...and God.

Followed by:
"And what's more--

Newcomer trolls to this blog are taunted as if they were children on a playground (see today's poor anonymous).

WTF? You call that spiritual? Shame on you four-eyed Jesus freaks and molly-boys (especially you, Van, yes you).

So whatcha going to do, huh? Huh? How do you like it?"

The inevitable temper tantrum.
Yawn.
Oh, did you want a response?
Howzabout bring it on...punk.

Of course your stupidity isn't welcome here.
You can prolly get some street cred at huffing and pissed though.
Rotsa ruck!

5/07/2007 12:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Skully said...

Guess what?
Joan of Arrgghh! Has a blog!
It's really cool too!

http://hiaslblog.blogspot.com/

5/07/2007 04:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Petey said...

"The question we need to ask is not whether we are pleasing to a given visitor, but on the contrary whether a given visitor is pleasing to us; it is out of the question, for a spiritual center, to make a given visitor’s stay as agreeable as possible. We owe him nothing, he owes us everything; we can have no motive to desire his visit, it is he who desires to see us and who therefore must make himself intelligible and acceptable; we do not ask anything of anyone, it is clearly visitors who ask something of us, otherwise they would not come." --F. Schuon

5/07/2007 04:58:00 AM  
Anonymous today's poor anonymous said...

Oh.

5/07/2007 05:04:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

a troll this way comes said "Bob has not evolved perceptibly in a long time; his viewpoints today are what they were two years ago."

Yeah, kinda boring stuff that Truth, doesn't change or evolve... like 2+2=4... I mean it's equalled 4 for ... what, two or three thousand years? Longer?! I mean, come on!

Speaking of evolving, way to go mastering that keyboard, pretty impressive for an Australopithecus... still, shouldn't you be moving on up to Homo habilis by now? Or maybe Homo erectus would be more appropriate?

"Newcomer trolls to this blog are taunted as if they were children on a playground (see today's poor anonymous). WTF? You call that spiritual? "

No... I call that Just fun... Just desserts... etc.

"Shame on you four-eyed Jesus freaks and molly-boys (especially you, Van, yes you). So whatcha going to do, huh? Huh? How do you like it?"

What am I going to do... hmm...hmm. Let's see... thunder and lightening? Zot Boom! Nah, that went out with Zeuss, hmm... Oh! I know...


LOL!

5/07/2007 05:12:00 AM  
Blogger Joan of Argghh! said...

Oh Ben! I'll have you thrown in the brig for that! Argghh!

It was done on a dare after I had thoroughly mocked the whole idea of chimp-personhood, someone dared me to write Hiasl's blog about how the chimp feels.

I'll be pulling it back down after I've made my point. Just like I've pulled down so many other blogs...

:o)

5/07/2007 05:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Sal said...

"Despite this, Professor Guillebaud says rich countries should be the most concerned about family size as their children have higher per capita carbon dioxide emissions."

Carbon dioxide, huh?
I thought it was the sulfur that clears the room when Bubbins toots.
Well, you learn something new every day.

Talking chimp blog? Why does that just sound like Joan?

5/07/2007 05:48:00 AM  
Blogger Magnus Itland said...

Ah, I remember the good old days (approximately 5 years ago) when human population would peak at 10.5 billion around 2050. And now it barely over 9?

I guess this means I can afford to continue taking my long walks, even though I emit more CO2 than I would have done sitting quietly in my chair.

5/07/2007 06:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Skully said...

Joan, please!
You were born to blog!
Besides, how many bloggers have the chutzpah to blog via
chimp-noir?
Only one!
We need you Joan!
The world needs you!
Hiasl needs you!
Power to the monkeys!
You don't monkey around!
More fun than a barrel of monkeys!
You can even speak for sea monkeys!
And what about funky monkeys?

5/08/2007 12:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why does it feel good to do something for a total stranger? I understand feeling good about doing good for yourself, but why do I feel warm and fuzzy if I help a mother stranded on the side of the road change her flat tire?, If I were just dancing to my DNA wouldnt avoiding the situation feel much better to me, that I drove past and didnt have to do any work, therefore preserving my own body and energy for doing only the work that benefits me. Only God is good, that is why we have a framework to measure good. Mere matter would not care what was good or bad or evil, because matter was not created in the image of God, we are.

5/08/2007 04:10:00 PM  

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