Sunday, April 08, 2007

Easter's Unday

(Warning: don't try to make sense of this post, or you might miss its absence of a point. I certainly did.)


That's a coincidence. As you might recoil, yesternow we were in the mist of discussing the secret religionship between trauma and spiritual opening, and here it is, the religious unday of them all, the sonny dei that commemorates the undoing of what was did way back when, on that dark and sinny day in the park. Remama? You know the one. Around Eve, it was. We wouldn't have needed the resurrection if it hadn't a' been for that insurrection in paradise, now would we?

Now that I think about it for the first and possibly last time, Christianity is the only religion that is actually rooted in trauma, for no one -- not even the principle actor -- could know that the "D'oh!" of Good Friday would end in the "Woo hoo!" of Resurrection Sunday.

Or, as I shouted out last year at about this time, "Hooray! Surrection!" In the bread and the brew of life, it's a Hoppy Yeaster to you ale! That ought to get a rise out of you, since he is accompliced by all his adoptees and other sacrificial blood relativities.

But siriusly, speaking of bright stars and fixed lights in the night time sky of history, in order to uppereciate the significance of this day, one must oppreciate the trauma that preceded it -- the utter loss and abandonment. Could this be an uber-metaphor for all spiritual openings?

Boris Mouravieff writes that "When man goes in search of the Way, it generally signifies that something within him has collapsed. Apart from exceptional cases, this collapse is preceded by a reassessment of moral values, which in the searcher's eyes lose the value he had previously given to them. This reassessment itself has been provoked by the accumulation of more or less violent shocks which have given birth to violent emotions."

Paradoxically -- but not really -- Mouravieff notes that for most men, "success and joy, instead of awakening them, plunge them into mental sleep." Thus, "from the esoteric point of view, disagreeable shocks are a better base for work than happy accidents."

For one thing, these shocks will tend to ground you in the sense of humility that is demanded of anyone on the spiritual path. Best to start off broken than to fall from a much greater height later on. For when we fall, we only fall to the ground. And for those who believe themselves to be high above the ground, the height is only in their imagination anyway. Nevertheless, their inevitable fall will feel much more catastrophic when it comes, even if the distance from up there to down here was only in their heart.

Mouravieff writes that unless one is unusually saintly, one will not be able to travel the path of the Way "without first passing through an interior bankruptcy; a moral collapse." Furthermore, "Interior collapse leads to certain consequences." For the person who does not accept the reality of the situation, he turns his back "on the path of Access, and thrust[s] himself further into the wilderness." One form of "wilderness" is most assuredly psycho-spiritual leftism, which constitutes a bogus cure for mankind's collective trauma. It leads nowhere -- certainly not vertically. Rather, it ends up being a further elaboration of, and justification for, man's Fall.

A number of Coons have mentioned recently that they have been undergoing a sort of "reversal," in which worldly things that used to interest and excite them no longer do so. It is not a transformation they have consciously willed, but it is simply happening of its own accord. It seems that this is an inevitable consequence of increasingly living one's life in the light of the Real. In so doing, one no longer takes "mirages for reality." It can also leave one feeling painfully isolated from one's fellows -- from the world, even. Mouravieff reminds us of the following words:

If the world hates you, know that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world... therefore the world hates you (John 15:18-19. But hey, don't worry about it -- don't get retraumatized all over again -- because I have overcome the world (John 16:33).

Come again?

It seems that in some form or fashion, the world itself -- or worldly existence -- is a trauma. In fact, I am reminded of Bion's theory of thinking, which he believed was foisted upon the mind in order to deal with the catastrophic absence of the breast (literally understood metaphorically). If you try to imagine it from the infant's point of view, there is no reason to think so long as he and the breast, the beatific and bountiful source of all life, are at one.

But eventually we make the painful discovery that we are separate from the source. There is a "rent" in the smooth surface of being, as thinking is forced upon the mind, in that infinite gap between mouth and breast. For the liberal, this gap is not tolerated, and is even resented; thus their characteristic absence of thought and the perpetual attempt to resurrect the bountiful breast in the form of the mommy state. Every day is anti-Easter.

Back to the world's hostility. Why is the left so hostile to religion? Perhaps because, as Mouravieff suggests, "if he who lives in the wilderness -- and is satisfied to be there, were he to approve of the attitude of one who walks on the path, it would be equivalent to recognizing his own bankruptcy. The more he progresses with his work, the more he becomes an object of hate."

Therefore, why wouldn't the world crucify Jesus? At the time, Rome certainly represented the world. It had always been and would always be, and it certainly would not tolerate someone who presumed to live -- and taught others how to live -- outside its bounds. But like everything else in the world, Rome had a beginning and an end. Only the one they put to death had an end and a beginning.

For horizontal man, there truly is no exit. The cosmos is a closed circle with no doorway in, up, or out. Or perhaps a doorway in, but certainly no way out short of physical death.

But physical death is not so much a way out as a simple end of the line, a final closing of the circle, a period at the end of the death sentence. Period.

Who was this spiraling Jesus who escaped the circle? In manifesting the celestial nature on earth, he did not seem particularly concerned about making it fully intelligible, at least in words. After all, that's why we're still talking and arguing about it two thousand years later. He simply incarnated his cosmic destiny and largely left it for others to figure out. What did it mean? What could it possibly mean?

Rudolf Steiner wrote that "the secrets of the Mysteries became manifest in Christianity." What secrets? What mysteries?

Today marks a transhistorical, metacosmic day, a day to meditate on timeless truth in its metaphysical transparency. An anonymous Greek Orthodox theologian remarked that "We do not ask whether or not the resurrection happened. It is the horizon in which we live." Dwelling within this vertical horizon is a way to contemplate reality at its deepest level -- a level that is well beyond mere discursive thought. For the Father is the transcendent aspect of God, the Son the immanent aspect. How to reconcile them?

Perhaps they were only ever separated by the veil of death. It is said that upon Jesus’ death, the temple veil was rent vertically from top to bottom. The resurrection is reality unveiled, which is to say reveiled, for it is a mysterious new veil with which to engage reality and to reconcile its ultimate terms. For if your powers of deception were cleansed, nothing would appear as it isn't.

But... Could you shed a little less bobscurity on that?

The Catholic theologian Balthasar wrote that "truth is the unconcealment of being, while... the someone to whom being is unconcealed is God."

In a similar vein, Lucy Beckett writes that "If God does not exist, the transcendent has been wiped away, there is no longer a vertical axis for the human soul, but only a horizontal, that is, a historical, axis for the human mind. More particularly, the vertical never crossed the horizontal in the Carnation."

Nor in us. Now that would be a real trauma, not to mention, folly -- to be up to Greek without any kenosis.

I don't know if any of this is making nonsense. I'll just stop now.

Ascent you a son, amen for a child's job. Telos when it's over. Now. It is accomplished. The circle unbroken, by and by. A godsend for a new beginning, a touch of infanity, a bloomin' yes on a rosy cross.


joan of argghh! said...

Saturday Song for Sunday Morning

Hope is the thing with arrows
pierced through to the heart
It stood against life's sorrows
and staggered from cruel darts

Yet, standing firm against gale
of fearsome flaming sorrows sent
I shield myself, Hope will not fail
Anon, I'll know what it all meant

klingon warbird said...

On the subject of the utitlity of trauma in the spiritual life:

The vibhuti, or enlightened person (rare) does not need trauma. These people are oriented towards God from birth and proceed straightaway and rapidly.

The vibhuti in the making needs trauma, because comfort breeds complacency and stasis. The trauma needs to be very heavy to be effective. Raccoons are vibhutis in the making.

The middle-student needs only minor trauma; the first baby steps towards God. The life will be somewhat uncomfortable. These are the conventional religious or leftists.

The beginner needs a comfortable life. Regular life must be mastered first before more difficult challenges can be asssumed. These are the happy-go-lucky types.

The Asura, the entity with no psychic being (rare) likes to create trauma for others, but generally has none for him or herself. The Asuric person is an anti-divine force and doesn't operate by the normal rules.

Jean Luke said...

Where do the klingon warbirds fit in?

cousin dupree said...

Woo hoo! Vibhuti call!

dilys said...

Saw this link to a pop metaphor for the Resurrection. It's like these guys taught gagdad and joyce to dance -- only in words!

Van said...

" might miss its absence of a point."

No point, only spIrals.

Uh-O, my Kenosis is taking on waters - where IS my pa-Idyll?

Anonymous said...

jwm said...
I went through the ark-ives, and looked at my own comment from last Easter. I remember how I felt. Reading Bob's posts, and exchanging thoughts with my fellow "Bobbleheads" (proto-coons) was opening a new and exciting dimension in my life. It was like finally finding the doorway into the Great Mystery. I felt like I had a lot to say, and I looked forward to sharing with the group.
Now I feel like I have a whole lot less to say. There was part of me that rather expected a spiritual breakthrough at some point, a transcendental experience, an overwhelming AHA moment that would change everything. I even managed to get some trauma thrown in for good measure.
But there has been no overwhelming moment. All the mind parasites are up and running, and doing quite well for themselves. I'm still pretty much the same brooding sort that I was a year ago.
So what has changed?
I am a believer. I don't know when, where or how I crossed that line, but somehow I realize that I have indeed crossed it, and am standing on the other side.
It's Easter. It really happened. God made this gesture. Ponder the mystery.


robinstarfish said...

history is halved
sunrise lights the broken steps
walk this way with me

Smoov said...


There is a Buddhist saying that goes something like this (I am paraphrasing from memory something that was told to me):

First the world is mountains and lakes

Then the world is confusing, wonderful and fast-changing

Finally the world is mountains and lakes

From what I gather this means that before we are enlightened (i.e., gain an activated gnosis) we see the world only as the horizontal world of material reality. As we begin to awaken spiritually we are dazzled by the new dimension opened up to us. This can be simulatneously uplifiting and disconcerting. Eventually we settle down again and the world comes back into focus as... mountains and lakes. But this time there is something different--there is a subtle inner glow to mundane reality which we now see. We are able to detect the sacred quality of the Real in this same material world which we once took for granted, or at last only experienced superficially (horizontally).

Does anyone else know about that particular Buddhist saying?

Van said...

Thanks for the links Diyls.

The culture that could produce this, that could take such joy as propper, attainable and worthy of seeking was undefeatable.

The culture that can produce 'ludicrous' has been defeated. No power on earth could inflict that kind of damage.

Gramscian certainly knew the power of ideas, but did he understand them? Did he understand the meaning of this day? No, and he and they worked to ensure that you and I wouldn't either.

"The mind parasite is as smart as you are". There you go. As the movie quote mentioned the other day (taken from C.S. Lewis's
Screwtape letters), words to the effect of "The greatest deception the evil put across was to convince us it didn't exist."

Gnowing that it does exist is more than half the battle, right JWM?

"Before attaining Enlightenment chop wood carry water, after Enlightenment, chop wood carry water."

Van said...


I didn't see your comment before tacking mine on, but I think it's essentially the same.

First we don't know what's going on. Then we think we know. Then we Gno.

All the while, the same thing is going on.

MizzE said...

Pure poetry, Bob.
Delicious Divinity you cooncocted for our
Easter's Unday feast.

will said...

The Abyssal God inflicted a trauma on Himself in order to bring Creation about - fortunate for us because now we exist.

From the Beginning, all of Creation was and continues to be based on opposition. No true life can begin without some previous death. As has been pointed out by many, the truth of this is exemplified in the simple candle - if it is to give light, it must lose its substance.

As we are the atoms of God, then God suffers as we do. Suffering and trauma must exist if we are to exist and eventually ignite in spiritual light.

Happy Easter to all.

sawdust said...

mizzie, couldn't agree more. More "points", any way you score it, than any sermon preached this morning, I'll wager. More than I've ever heard from anyone drawing a paycheck to preach the Gospel. No offense to my good friend Loy, a retired preacher. Bob uses words more efficiently than anyone I've ever read or heard, with the possible exception of Buckminster Fuller, but I couldn't understand 10% of what he said most of the time. Bob, one of your best efforts ever, in my book. Thanks.

Dr_Qi said...

Smoov, "When I began, mountains were mountains and rivers were rivers; when I penetrated deeply, mountains were no longer mountains and rivers were no longer rivers; and when I had finished, mountains were again mountains and rivers again rivers."

As to your exegesis of it, I can only remark that if you said what you wrote to a Buddhist master they would either laugh or bop you on the nose with their Keisaku.

Bob, its interesting that you mention the quote from Balthasar. Just one example, of which thousands could be found, of Heidegger's direct influence on the Christianity of the 20th century. Oh, where would Christianity be without having misappropriated the ideas of wise heathens like Aristotle and Heidegger, to mention just two.

walt said...

Smoov -

"First there is a mountain
Then there is no mountain
Then there is

Caterpillar sheds his skin
To find the butterfly within"

-From an old Donovan song, titled There is a Mountain

Alan Watts quoted a Zen poem:

On Mount Lu there is misty rain,
And the River Zhe is at high tide.
When you have not been there, your heart is filled with longing.
But when you have been there and come back, it was nothing special.
Misty rain on a mountain.
A river at high tide.

ximeze said...


"I don't know Who - or what - put the question, I don't know when it was put. I don't even remember answering. But at some moment I did answer Yes to Someone - or Something - and from that hour I was certain that existence is meaningful and that, therefore, my life, in self-surrender, had a goal."

I keep this Dag Hammarskjold quote in my wallet, so I gno exactly where it is. Seems a fitting place for it to pop up unexpectedly, as a reminder, when dealing with that horizontal mirage: money.

I plan to make it up in hand-work soon. Taking the time & attention to forming the letters, stitch by stitch, is a most rewarding Zen in Motion kinda thing.

Since I not artsy, the hardest part is working up a pleasing paper-charted version, where the stitches are formatted on a grid, to be replicated on evenweave cloth. The chart is just a guide, with the final stitched result very different in look & feel: the bones are there, but it's been fleshed out with color, texture & depth.

There's a whole assemble-the-gear phase: chart, magnetic board, strip magnets to focus chart area, correct needles, leather thimble, laying-tool to ensure placement, floss/yarn/thread in the same color family, cloth that fits in & appropriate stretcher-frame.

Then an odd, exciting & very still moment, sort of frozen in time, with all the potentiality of the blank canvas, hovering, 'waiting' to be born. Just gotta plunge in.

There's something about the repeated motions of stitching & of the 'alpha-state' it induces that's very like what I get out of swimming laps, back & forth, back & forth, stroke after stroke. The body fully engaged while the mind runs free. Feels great!

Strangely, I never care about keeping the finished project. It gets washed, pressed & goes into a drawer, to be fished out as a gift to someone who might enjoy it.

I've already gotten my own gift thru the making of it: the experience of carefully placing each stitch to flesh those bones out & seeing the result.

cousin dupree said...

Oh where would Dr. Qi be without his vacuous pseudo-intellectual posing?

Van said...

And so essentially did Plato long before either... aside from proving how pretentious and rude you can be, what is your point?
That knowledge must be newly minted, free of outside influence in order to be used, claimed or attained by another?

Gagdad Bob said...


How about some examples?

By the way, do you have a blog where your delusions are fleshed out, so that we can actually ridicule them in more detail?

MizzE said...

Qi - GONG!

Time to resume your Buddha nature.

hoarhey said...

"Oh, where would Christianity be without having misappropriated the ideas of wise heathens like Aristotle and Heidegger, to mention just two."

Where would it be Dr_Qi?
Please, impart just a tiny bit of your pentrating wisdom upon us and wash away our delusions. Show us how a great mind, a master of psychic divination, weaves a tale on the destiny of how the world would be if only wise, philosophical, secular men of his great intellect were allowed total sway.
Pleeeeeaaaaase help us! Please, save us!


dilys said...

I think this might be your Lucy Beckett link?

Geckofeeder said...

Ah, it is the One Cosmos Easter basket overflowing with so many gifts made possible by the remembrance and celebration of this glorious day. Back In the olden days of the 1980's we would start the annual Easter egg hunt with a huge circle of friends and all our kits singing "Morning Has Broken" (a hymn made popular by Cat Stevens aka Yusof Islam) Freshly scrubbed and basketed children of all ages scrambling(oh dear) for those eggs of many colors. Under lilies, on the roots of ancient oak trees, cradled in an olive branches, tucked in pots of cymbidiums, eggs everywhere, probably a few from the year before lurking. Hidden. Like my mother and grandmother had done and probably theirs as well. No child, no matter how little, was shortchanged by the Divine Easter Bunny and someone always found the Golden Egg. In certain emergency situations other golden eggs could be made to appear - as we know, through faith, all things are possible.
So, Happy Easter to everyone here in Gagdad's cosmic cocoon. Thank for having me. Gecko

USS Ben said...

Cool post, El Guapo!
JWM, Sawdust, Will and Gecko!
I miss reading your comments and It's great to see you again.
Happy Easter Bobblehead Raccoons!
Or is that Raccoon Bobbleheads?!
In any event it's happy!

uss ben said...

Shake your vambhuti!
At least 'till Lisa shows up.
Then we can do the S & M stuff.

uss ben said...

Hah! Klingons have Birds of Prey, Romulans have Warbirds.

...I's not like I'm a geek or somethin'.
I don't even own a PDA let alone a Boysenberry or I Walkman.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

uss ben said...

"Hooray! Surrection!" In the bread and the brew of life, it's a Hoppy Yeaster to you ale!

An Easterbeer salute to y'all!

sawdust said...

Forgot to ask something while ago. Talking about losing interest in things of the world, it has been my experience with Those Who Know Such Things, that what we have here is good ol' Depression. Any thoughts, Bob?

Also, speaking of trauma, I wanted to share a little of my favorite verse:

When I have seen by Time's fell hand defaced
The rich-proud cost of outworn buried age,
When onetime lofty towers I see down-raised;
Or brass eternal, slave to mortal rage;
When I have seen the hungry ocean gain advantage on the kingdom of the shore,
Or the firm soil win over the wat'ry main
Replacing store with loss, or loss with store;
When I have seen such interchange of state,
Or state itself counfounded to decay;
Ruin hath caused me thus to ruminate
That Time will come and take my love away.
This thought is as a Death, which cannot choose
But weep to have that which we fear to lose.

I first read these lines in a book called "Dance of the Continents", a marvelous book about plate techtonics. That author was talking about the changes in the physical world over time. Shakespeare, as he so often did, was talking about love. I always liked the sonnet, but when I lost my lovely wife in 96, it became more personal. Bob referred in the book to the ability of such things to somehow transport you somewhere else. I have never sensed it any stronger than that particular incident.

geckofeeder said...

Thanks Will, how nice of you to notice.
Verbouti call? What Dupree has to deal with God only knows. Hmm, wasn't that the stuff that Si Baba would , ahem, manifest out of his hand for his followers. Seemed to be am man of few verbs but thenhe never visited me like he did some of my moonbatest of friends.Will, of course Lisa is off teaching the verbouti but she'll show.

joan of argghh! said...

Our loss, Heaven's gain.

"He had a stroke," Hart's wife, Bobby, said Sunday. "He died at his storyboard."

Just an awesome way to go completely vertical... doing what you love!

Van said...

Sawdust said "...Talking about losing interest in things of the world, it has been my experience with Those Who Know Such Things, that what we have here is good ol' Depression."

I think there's a difference between losing interest and shunning, retreating or hiding from them....

Sal said...

Regina caeli, laetare, alleluia.
Quia quem meruisti portare, alleluia
Resurrexit sicut dixit, alleluia.
Ora pro nobis Deum, alleluia

Gaude et laetare, Virgo Maria, alleluia.
Quia resurrexit Dominus vere, alleluia!

A blessed Easter to all celebrating.

I have some thoughts on T = C, from a different perspective, but they'll have to wait.

El Guapo is coming and I must "sew, old one! Sew like the wind!"

Van said...

Joan of Argghh!,
Ahh... Sunday morning as a kid, my brother & I would wake & race into my parents room, jump on the bed and see who would be first to get to the page of the funny papers with B.C., Wizard of Id & (what was the western?...)Rick O'Shay(?).

If you got to go, and we all do, that's the way to do it.

Joan of Argghh! said...

Wizard of Id!!

Crowd: "The peasants are revolting!"

Wiz: "They certainly are!"

Late Convert said...

Sawdust said:

"Talking about losing interest in things of the world, it has been my experience with Those Who Know Such Things, that what we have here is good ol' Depression."

It's more a shifting of interest away from things of the world and towards matters of the spirit. I view it as a matter of sanity rather than one of depression.

Alan said...

I agree with van and late convert - though there is a good chance of depression among those on the path (another way the ego/parasites play with us), in my humble experience most friends have some fairly major realignments of what they value in their lives. For some it happens in an instant, for most it is a slow process that sneaks up on you. Perhaps Bob will cover this in a future post?

Re; the wiz - I fondly remember waiting for my piano teacher (a nun in a convent) reading paperbacks of the Wizard of Id comics - it was one of my first ways of getting a sneak peak into the world of how adults think (at least I looked at it that way then!)

PSGInfinity said...


My sense is the Millennial Depression lies mostly within the hearts of Leftists agonizing over the appalling stress their delusions are under.

There are great stressors about, so all isn't well. We came off the worst (dot com) bubble in a generation, and started another bubble, learning nothing in the process. Now we have ~3 million households facing foreclosure in the next three years. And that's just for starters.

We can navigate these rapids, like we've navigated so many before. But the Leftist Mind-Rending is certainly an unwelcome complication...

WV: ahreazder (Ah Ha, Reader?)

walt said...

I'll second Alan's hope for Bob to discuss depression, if and when he's inclined. The more I pondered the word, the more different types of experience came to mind. It must be another of those "saturated" words.

Perhaps there's a word that better expresses the "shifting of interest away from things of the world and towards matters of the spirit," as Sawdust spoke of it - something that Coons could refer to without all the usual subjectivity attached?

walt said...

Sorry, I attributed Sawdust, but it was Late Convert that said what I quoted.

Lisa said...

Nice to know me and my vambhuti have been missed on this chilly Easter Day. Hope you all had a nice one. Is this why bunnies have furry tails?

PS. Ben, I resemble, oops I mean resent that comment! Just because I use springs and straps doesn't mean it's S & M. I try my best not to hurt people, but it is fun to watch them squirm! Good to see some of the old coots, oops again meant coons, out from hibernation! Trust me and don't try to combine those two words!! ;)

USS Ben said...

"But hey, don't worry about it -- don't get retraumatized all over again -- because I have overcome the world (John 16:33).

Come again?

It seems that in some form or fashion, the world itself -- or worldly existence -- is a trauma. In fact, I am reminded of Bion's theory of thinking, which he believed was foisted upon the mind in order to deal with the catastrophic absence of the breast (literally understood metaphorically)."

Thanks B'ob for keeping me abreast of the condition.
It was nipping underneath the surface and I was fly fishing.
Time to use bait, metaphorically speaking.
With a b'obber of course.

Metaphysical fishing, looking for the keepers to bite.

uss ben said...


ximeze said...

Re the '01 Easter Sunday Cross/Menorah 'controversy': he meant it as a tribute to both faiths, while some newspapers deemed it necessary to drop Hart's strip. Typical horizontal solution to a vertical subject.

Hey! If it were happening today, we could send in Lisa to shake her vambhuti to straighten those bozos out.
You Go Girl!

wv: febaqoo (like I said)

NoMo said...

Bob Dylan sang, "It's not dark yet, but its gettin' there." But I say, "It's not light yet, but its gettin' there!"

"They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them...and said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? He is not here; he has risen!"

And later, the risen One proclaimed to the apostles, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things." (Luke 24:1-6, 44-48)

So it all keeps coming full spiral.

ximeze said...

I'll put my twoscents in on the 'good ol depression' question, having been one hit unexpectedly with a sudden complete lack of interest in stuff that mattered 'before'.

In my case, it's been more like trying to recover from an addiction that no longer 'works' & has a similar profile to substance abuse.

Went merryly along for decades, filling space/time with the preferred stuff & everything was just peachy.

Next an escalation, more & more, giving less & less result. Is this ALL there is?

Then a complete shut-down, where no more could be absorbed & only long walks & hours sitting under trees in the park, staring at the river passing, offered any relief.

These days, 'interest' is growing again, tho I'm careful to treat all reintroductions to a battery of 'tests', very like allergy-patch-tests done one at a time, for clear evaluation, before giving them a green light.

Must say I'm happy with the results. It's like taking everything out of a closet & trying each item on for fit & style, before deciding to bring it back in.

I'm with the Restoration of Sanity crowd.

romulan envoy said...

On the subject of depression:

A general disgust with the world, a recoil, and a vehement denial and turning away from the desires of ordinary life often occurs in the spiritual seeker; this is called "vairyaga" in Yoga and leads upward to a more detached and serene state. It is a temporary step backward that leads to a greater step forward.

Contrast this to depression, which is anger and resentment turned inwardly against the self. The spiritual person must never willingly embrace hopelessness or bad thoughts aimed against the self.

In cases of brain chemistry imbalance depression can be hard to combat.

My main point is that "vairyaga"--a healthy state--is disgust directed outwardly against human nature in general, whereas depression, an unhealthy state, is ill will and disgust directed against the self.

River Cocytus said...

A reasonable point, setting aside that it is appropriate to note and turn back error; and so it is not negative or bad thoughts that are improper inasmuch as untrue ones. Thoughts also that are true but delivered with the wrong motivation, I.E, dwelling on error (instead of fixing it) are also wrong.

Just wanted to clarify, as a person who has recovered from a chronic depression as a teenager.

River Cocytus said...

Good one to note:
Psalm 119:71

It is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes.

wv: kdzregrt - sometimes they do!

Anonymous said...

Yesterday night, there was "The Passion of the Christ" on TV. Having heard how violent and gruesome the movie was, I wasn't sure I was going to watch it but I knew ultimately I would have to. So I did, and to my surprise it didn't affect me, it was as though I was immune to Christ's suffering, as though I knew that God would never let a Man be tortured that way, any man but especially that man, like an animal, human beings don't have the capacity to bear such physical pains. If I have one prayer for God, it is that one, I pray that once the beating began, Jesus left his body and was preserved from that horror. Not to minimize His strenght and his Suffering in any way. Because the compassionate heart of Jesus Knows what human suffering means, what happens when the innocent is abused by the ignorant, how governments and institutions can bring darkness to humanity.

To deserve His Title, Jesus passed thru the Fire, even if it is a spiritual one. Spirit is what makes us real afterall: It would be as if all the negative vibrations (Hatred) of the universe, past, present and future, would be sent to Him, from head, thru body, heart and soul: i.e. a visit to Hell, if Hell was real, alone in the world, with no one to sustain Him, to give him Love, Hope, to tell him that his suffering is temporary, that there is a Logic and a Justice that will ultimately prevail, that the Just will be rewarded, that He certainly shouldn't be there, such a Lover of God, but that even fools wont be punished, after all even they have been created by God, why should they be punished in their afterlife?...

To become Jesus, He was asked to Experience Hell (a world with no love, no security, no future, no God), a bad dream that even Jesus with his Knowledge of the truth couldn't Fight, because even Jesus is at the Mercy of God's power, a point in the universe and a disciple that needs to Grow and become strong in order to bring Light and Knowledge to those who need it. In order to Fight Darkness and Ignorance and to stop the Violence that comes as a consequence.

9/11 or the beheading of Nick Berg have the same level of horror to me. One doesn't have to personaly suffer a trauma to be opened to its horror. I pray for Nick Berg and the victims of 9/11 in the same manner that I pray for Jesus. I hope from the bottom of my heart that God is using his power to reduce the pain inflicted to the victims - not spiritually, it's already written in their genes, but physically. If it makes any sense. It does to me.

In fact, I know that because of this nature of mine I will always be preserved from physical pain. but I know that God has no mercy when it comes to asking me to show my inner strenght and act of Faith. The price may even seem higher but being the coward I am when it comes to face danger, I accept the Deal. Maybe it is the woman in me that is that coward. Maybe Jesus is stronger after all. Maybe he could handle all kinds of Hurts even the most barbaric ones. Compared to Nick Berg, even His pain becomes relative.

God is Beautiful, so is life, but if you ask me, I don't think Life is worth living when you know the high price one has to pay for it. Including knowing what happen to millions of innocent people all around the world in the hands of vicious barbaric psychopaths. Last example: the Iraq of Saddam.

Anyway, when the movie came out, I understood the goal of Mel Gibson was to undirectly show what happens when too much power is given to Religion, whether Judaism, Catholicism or Islam. He obviously meant the muslim world at that moment in time. I thought he let the people understand it for themselves. Very few did I believe.

Anyway, Religion is a poisonous Gift. The catholic church wasn't immune from barbarism and abuse. Far from it. For whatever reason, each time you give power to a religion, Horror will occur. Something must be wrong somewhere. I know where.

This is the reason why I have such high esteem for Buddhism. Where there is no room for Abuse of Power, especially from his High Rank Monks. And as the buddha said, there is a justification for violence to save the Innocent and the Precious. That's why I always thought the Dalai Lama would support the war of America against Saddam. We had already heard the Vatican on the matter. No balls, no clarity, I thought. But the pope was so old already.

Anyway back to the Dalai Lama, I still have to interview Him. Or Him, me.

I hope I didn't depress you. But who can escape the Truth? There is not much Truth in this world. That's why it's called the Illusion. Everybody is living his/her own version of the facts. Then try to sell it to the world. All imperfect systems that makes everyone angry. Only the ultimate truth will unify the world. Minus the true sickos. But at least we wont have useful idiots no more on their side.

River Cocytus said...

Nope, the suffering was complete and literal. And even worse - cast off into hell.

That's what sacrifice looks like.

Don't mean to be dismissive, but God is as Just as he is Merciful.

It was, indeed, God's own blood on that cross.

For, rejoice oh, Israel, the Lord your God is one.

Anonymous said...

God is Just and Merciful, but if we stay passive, or ignore reality or give up on finding the Key to the salvation of the world, Hell will conquer the planet and more suffering and blood of innocents will be sacrificed. That's not Justice. It's Hard Logic.

That's why Jesus was sacrificed. He was surrounded by too many Unbelievers and Ignorants.

Ultimately the planet will blow up and it will come to us as a relief.

I have my own "Road Map to Global Peace and Prosperity". When the time will come, I will reveal it, then hide and ask for government protection.

It's very simple. Could even work with minimum violence. The end of Tyranny. The beginning of prosperity for all according to each individual's ambition. The end of all sleazy phony prophets, politicians and crooks. We will name names. Governments can't succeed without the spiritual and material support of their people. In the same way that God can't Save us if we don't save ourselves. Reach His level by Educating ourselves.

Too many people enjoy the status quo, the existing suffering of millions; that way, they can go on blaming the rich countries while cashing in on those people's misery and the rich countries's gullibility. We are still surrounded by slave traders. They rule the world but the call themselves saviors. Best example: the United Nations; even networks like CNN.


Anonymous said...

River, I can only wish that we Human are not being treated like animals by God, that we would be saved by Him during crucial moments before we could ever feel the coldness of the sword on our neck, the touch of fire on our skin or the sharpness of the nail on our hand.

Some fight for minimum wage, in the name of Justice. I fight for Decency. For the Civilized Man to put an end to all forms of Barbarism, still alive around the world, unfortunately a non-issue to too many. And those who care often don't have a clue as to how to stop it. Some are too scared to even see it or recognize it when it shows up. How many thought Iraq should be saved? How many are helping now to save her?


River Cocytus said...

Dreamer - oh, they are fighting 'barbarism' alright - but their definition is incoherent, indiscriminate and inverted.

And so, their hearts are made hard even in their 'kindness' and they will not hear the words of truth.

For he who does not see the need for grace will never receive it, though it is continually given.

Anonymous said...

Lastly, what's more important? For you to be absolutely Right in your beliefs or to Know that God, at least on one aspect of Jesus' suffering (the gruesome part), did in fact protect Him and didn't let Him be treated like a subhuman. What kind of followers would allow and insist that the physical suffering of Jesus should be real for us to accept Him as our Savior and Son of God? I don't see any Logic, I don't see Beauty, I don't even see Faith.

What's the fascination with God's Blood, with Blood in general anyway? What's the fascination with Physical Punishment? I call those: Priests' fantasies. Sado-masochists hearts who look more and more like repentant sinners/slaves to their own ego than true men and women. That's the sick aspect of christianity so dear to the community of the monks. Overly dramatizing Life and suffering as though Life wasn't heavy enough as it was. Plus they ultimately don't want to take any actions, just the contemplation, submission, self-pity, Pardon, who are we to pardon? A circus organized by 'devil', to absolve his own faults, fool God, and put everyone else into task.

The Shiite tradition (remember those men in black, in Iraq, walking in a procession, beating themselves with a whip?) of self-castigation and bleeding makes me want to puke. That's not a universal message of Beauty, that's the expression of a pathological mind in search of redemption. Only nobody is listening. How can we fall for those backwards images? It's built in the same vein. Only they are not in white, but wearing black, even more scary. They are not mullahs (those are really cowards) but a bunch of macho men faking Love and faith.

A last point, how long it took the catholic Church to reconcile with its Jewish Tradition? I don't think before the Existence of America, catholics were very tolerant towards Jews. How long Jews have been persecuted around the world for a sin they didn't commit? Why Christianity was built in such fashion that right from the start, it would be easy to misinterpret its message and blame a whole culture, religion and people. Even anti-semite atheist are using the same source to justify their hatred.

Christianity fascinates us because deep in our heart we know that it hides a true Gem. For some mysterious reason, any mention of Jesus' name has a magical effect on us, like the mentioning of a Friend long gone but always present. We know something is very real about Him, we knows he was higher than life, we know he would never betray, but right now, we can only guess. Just as true sufi believers have saved Islam from itself, true Believers in the West have saved Christianity. And of course, Jesus Himself has saved his own killers and later the Institution of the Church itself.

And one final day, AMERICA made all these different traditions and religions, eternally at war with each others, equal in front of the Law. Letting America open to its own destruction by Muslim radicals in search of Power and Conquest. But that's another story.

Sorry I hope that was my last word, until we will meet one day.


river, respectfully, thanks but no thanks. I don't understand that type of Language.