Thursday, June 22, 2006

The Hostile Forces and Their Allies

The devil [is] the humanized personification--humanized on contact with man--of the subversive aspect of the centrifugal existential power... --F. Schuon

What is it with these hostile powers? Why are they afflicting so many spiritually sensitive souls at this particular time? What do they want and when will they go away? Why am I and so many other cosmonaughts experiencing these bizarre dreams and inexplicable physical symptoms?

In World War II, millions of good men traveled to hell in order to fight the latest incarnation of evil. What was going on then--not politically, but cosmically? No mere human psychology can explain the level of pure evil embodied in the Japanese and German governments that inflicted such infra-human brutality on their millions of victims.

I just finished an excellent new history of the Cold War, and it is the same story. I mean that literally, for history itself is the same story. The drama of exterior, or "horizontal" history can obscure the deeper reality of interior, or "vertical" history. Outwardly it looked as if a “world war” had ended in 1945, but nothing could be further from the truth. If it is possible for pure evil to surpass itself, then Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot did so. And they did so not only “under the radar,” but aided and abetted at every step along the way by an elite anti-divine spiritual movement called “the international left.”

Thankfully, this movement did not fully insinuate itself into the Democratic Party and hijack liberalism until the early 1970’s, so it posed no existential threat to our ability to name and extinguish evil, for evil cannot triumph so long as virtuous and courageous men can recognize it and mercilessly burn it from our midst.

But things are different today. Once again the same evil--the same hideous death-worshipping ontological evil that lived through men like Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Tojo--has now lodged itself into the heart of a religion and a region of the earth. But like any other parasite, the evil that animates this movement has adapted and learned from its mistakes. It knows that its only hope of success is to convince sophisticated and cultured men that it does not exist.

Perhaps you remember the absolute outrage among sophisticated leftists when Ronald Reagan acknowledged and named this evil in June of 1982. Not only did the left dismiss him as wrong, but, just like President Bush, he was regarded and reviled as the real source of evil in the world. You may think that we ultimately won that particular linguistic battle once and for all, but the opposite is true. As I have had occasion to mention before, the left learns nothing from history--that is not its role in the cosmic drama. Rather, it exists to obscure those lessons, for they issued the identical howls of outrage when President Bush recognized and named the most recent incarnations of ontological evil.

Here is what President Reagan said, updated with some obvious edits. You tell me if the left wouldn’t react identically today if these words were uttered:

“I've often wondered about the shyness of some of us in the West about standing for the ideals that have done so much to ease the plight of man and the hardships of our imperfect world....

“If history teaches anything, it teaches self-delusion in the face of unpleasant facts is folly. We see around us today the marks of our terrible dilemma--predictions of doomsday, anti-American demonstrations, a terror war in which the West must, for its own protection, be an unwilling participant. At the same time we see totalitarian forces in the world who seek subversion and conflict around the globe to further their barbarous assault on the human spirit. What, then, is our course?... Must freedom wither in a quiet, deadening accommodation with totalitarian evil?

“We must be staunch in our conviction that freedom is not the sole prerogative of a lucky few but the inalienable and universal right of all human beings....

“All the democracies paid a terrible price for allowing the dictators to underestimate us. We dare not make that mistake again. So, let us ask ourselves, ‘What kind of people do we think we are?’ And let us answer, ‘Free people, worthy of freedom and determined not only to remain so but to help others gain their freedom as well.’

“What I am describing now is a plan and a hope for the long term--the march of freedom and democracy which will leave Islamo-fascism on the ash heap of history as it has left other tyrannies which stifle the freedom and muzzle the self-expression of the people....”

*****

Those who lived through it well remember how Reagan was absolutely despised and reviled by the left. Their hatred of this particular speech was not the issue. Nor was Reagan himself the issue, any more than Hitler or Stalin were the issue. Reagan was simply a vehicle of much larger forces, and was opposed by the identical impersonal, anti-Divine forces that would oppose him today.

One again, our brave men are in hell, fighting satan. But the morally twisted left, which cannot recognize evil, sees the opposite. Dennis Prager routinely asks callers opposed to the liberation of Iraq if they can at least acknowledge one thing: that we are fighting evil. Not only will they not concede this point, they are outraged and insulted by the question. Rather, America is the aggressor imposing its will on patriotic insurgents.

Here is what a clear mind, uncontaminated by the toxic thinking of the left, sees:

“In the overheated exchanges that too often substitute for reasoned political discourse, definitions and distinctions can blur. But there is a huge difference between Coalition forces and the wanton, sociopath terrorist with no vestige of honor, who knows nothing but destruction and has no plan for the future other than the subjugation of others while on the path to some psychotic pathology inured by tribal culture and carcinogenic beliefs that will, if left untouched, leave people living in mud huts and slitting throats of historical enemies for another thousand years, or, if slightly more science-minded, leave them seeking nuclear weapons to reach out and destroy the world.

“We did not create this evil, although it does reveal itself more sharply by comparison in the presence of decent people. When the tactics of an enemy cross the line, sentient peoples recognize that they are no longer entitled to be called opposing forces, insurgents, freedom fighters, revolutionaries, or Jihadists--they are terrorists.

".... No living creature is safe while a rabid predator roams. No. Our people who have truly stared into the face of this terrorist demon have seen the ruby glow in its eyes. This is not a myth. This is not a politically contrived caricature, this demon is real. It usually stalks the easy prey--children, women in crowds, families focused on prayer, rescue workers responding to people in need. Some terrorists manage to get our soldiers.”

****

But what I really wanted to touch on in this post was the nature and role of this ontological evil, and the effect it is having on spiritually sensitive souls at this particular time, as it wells up from the bosom of the earth-consciousness, opportunistically roaming about, looking for minds to colonize. I’ll have to get to that tomorrow.

There is another type of vibration, remarkable for its suddenness and violence; the seeker literally feels these vibrations swooping down upon him.... These are what Sri Aurobindo called the adverse forces. They are highly conscious forces whose sole aim, apparently, is to discourage the seeker and divert him from the path he has chosen. The first sign sign of their presence is easily perceptible: joy is clouded over, consciousness is clouded over, everything becomes shrouded in an atmosphere of tragedy....

Thus there is kind of threshold to cross if we want to find the true life force behind the troubled life of the frontal man.


--Satprem

PS--For trolls who will remind me that Schuon was a Sufi, he was unambiguous. There is a reason why his books are banned and Sufis are persecuted in the Muslim world:

"In some cases, the end justifies the means; in others, that of terrorism for example, the means compromise the end. In the first case, the means are ennobled by the end, since their nature enables them of being so, and assuming of course that the end be noble; in the second case, the end, even when noble, is debased by the means since, precisely, its nature excludes them."

25 Comments:

Anonymous dilys said...

Interesting, I just ran across that whole Schuon section lambasting religions that could not keep their roots and also adapt. The mean'n'hardcore traditionalists who follow him may not have the tune exactly right.

I was wondering if I was lagging behind here -- minimum nightmares, except second-hand -- until, in the last two days, a little outpost of Dateline: Hell has shown up on the radar, heading directly for the calendar and my plate.

Interested Bobbleheads will receive bulletins as it becomes clearer.

In other news,
for the ecclesiastically interested, IMO the Good Ship Episcopalian just went down, with cheers and the eerie absence of even a pocket-harmonica "Nearer my God to thee."

Very interesting times, fish or cut bait, two roads diverge in a yellow Would.

6/22/2006 08:44:00 AM  
Blogger R. Sherman said...

I think it is difficult to look at this world and not despair. There are those of us with eyes who see what is happening: the systematic destruction of our ideals, whether those ideals are equality and dignity of humans without regard to genetic background; sanctity of life; sanctity of family. Yet the vast majority of people, who nominally pay lip service to those ideas are content to sit by and allow our society to be hijacked.

The frightening thing is the unknown answer to the question, "What will it take to again awake 'the sleeping giant.'"

Cheers.

6/22/2006 09:28:00 AM  
Anonymous will said...

No need to despair, but there's a positive need NOT to despair. World events, along with the dreams and odd sensations many are having: this could and probably does mean, IMO, that we're entering the cthonic fires, the Big Metamorphosis, the World Kundalini activated. As it is within, so it is without. We're being purged individually and that which is not holy will come to the surface to howl and threaten. Same on the world stage. A willingness to recognize and face down evil on the world stage is now the same as recognizing and overcoming what is evil in us as individuals. Which does NOT mean the Islamofascists are our merely our projections. They are the real deal, just as our own personal spiritual failings are the real deal.

Let's please keep in mind that all of this is necessary if there is to come a resurrected world. Succumb to despair and you lose. Whatever chaos may come, either on an individual basis or collectively, will pass. Meanwhile, it could be that everything without real spiritual foundation will go down in flames. If so, it's a good time to locate and hue to what is imperishable.

6/22/2006 10:22:00 AM  
Blogger CatoRenasci said...

Bob, you said: Once again the same evil--the same hideous death-worshipping ontological evil that lived through men like Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Tojo--has now lodged itself into the heart of a religion and a region of the earth.

I have only a small quibble: having read the history of the rise of Islam, I am convinced that evil lodged itself in Islam from its inception. It has ever waged war against the rest of the world, save only when it has retreated tactically in the face of superior force.

6/22/2006 10:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Kahntheroad said...

Greetings all,

I've been taking a bit of a break lately due to some personal issues (nothing 'serious,' just some illusions to overcome) and an overload of spiritual info. Thus, I'm trying to focus on mindfulness, ritual and action...absorbing "knowledge" has become a distraction until I put to use what I do know.

This change has conjured up exactly the opposing forces Bob describes today, so, once again, just when I think I'm out, Bob pulls me back in.

Aside from the occasional feelings of worldly despair, always tempered by glimpses of faith, there's one dream that comes to mind from a few years ago, during the run up to the Iraq War.

It was an unusually vivid scene on a battlefield - but more of an old world war I, dark and smoky trench warfare battlefield. It was really just one image, a graphic close up of an individual solider taking a bullet, but it was on television - and the implication was that the entire war was being covered this way, with cameras on the battlefield and perspective being shifted from the broad objectives and victories, to each individual American death.

And it occurred to me: If we lose this war, it'll be because our own media defeated us - simply by giving the public access to the day to day horrors of war, and in appealing to our emotions, they would cause use to lose site of the big picture and, thus, our resolve.

At the time I knew the media was, and would always be, hostile to our aims. But I never thought it possible for them to do the damage they have done.

6/22/2006 11:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All the troll said is that one cannot use Schuon as an argument against Islam as such. He was a Muslim. He even has Muslim disciples in Iran and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, who, oddly enough, are not persecuted. All that being said, as I did say, I agree with with assessment of the CURRENT state of Islam. But I think it only makes sense for people to know that Schuon greatly appreciated and loved the religion of Islam. Even his chief disciple, Titus Burckhardt, wrote many books, like Fez, city of Islam. His chief English disciple, Martin Lings, was a well known, outwardly open Muslim. This is not by chance. His disciples were not staying from the path.

6/22/2006 12:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Kahntheroad said...

I'm a big fan of old, pre-WWII apocalyptic country and blues songs - especially these days. Will's post brought this Carter Family favorite to mind (of course, aside from the literal interpretation, such songs are fuel for spiritual inner battle as well:

Keep On The Firing Line

If you're in the battle for the lord and right

Just keep on the firing line

If you win the battle then surely you must fight

So keep on the firing line


Brother keep on the firing line

Keep on the firing line

Time is getting short Jesus coming soon

Brother keep on the firing line

There are many dangers everyone must face

If you die a-fighting there is no disgrace

With the lord for cowards you will find no place

So keep on the firing line

God can only use the soldiers he can trust

To keep on the firing line

If you wear the crown bear the cross you must

So keep on the firing line

6/22/2006 12:06:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Anonymous--

Your comment about Schuon is at best misleading, both with regard to his actual beliefs and the degree to which his views are tolerated in the Muslim world. For example, no Muslim in Saudi Arabia or Iran would be allowed to say that Allah was only relative and not absolute, which is what he believed, since he was fundamentally a Vedantin in his metaphysics.

Here are the facts:

"In the years since his death, a number of his close associates have begun to publish biographical memoirs, and it is now widely known that Schuon’s own practice was undertaken within the context of Sufism and that he served for over sixty years as a master of the traditional Shadhiliyyah-Darqawiyyah lineage. He himself did not speak of this role in his published writings, however, for he wished to distinguish very carefully between his function as a spiritual master, on the one hand, and his teaching as a metaphysician and philosopher, on the other—a teaching that is universalist in its scope and intention and worlds apart from any proselytizing, sectarian, or authoritarian aim.

Born in Switzerland in 1907, where he was brought up as a Protestant before becoming a Roman Catholic, he knew that those who were aware of his background might falsely conclude that he had renounced Christianity and had “converted” to Islam. In fact, his Sufi affiliation was simply a matter of vocation, the result of his quest as a young man for a form of spirituality he had been unable to find in the Western Church, and it did not conflict with his remaining an adamant defender of traditional Christological doctrine and other essential Christian truths, nor with his having a special affinity for the Christian East and the Hesychast method of prayer. “Being a priori a metaphysician,” he wrote, “I have had since my youth a particular interest in Advaita Vedânta, but also in the method of realization of which Advaita Vedânta approves. Since I could not find this method--in its strict and esoteric form--in Europe, and since it was impossible for me to turn to a Hindu guru because of the laws of the castes, I had to look elsewhere; and since Islam de facto contained this method, in Sufism, I finally decided to look for a Sufi master; the outerform did not matter to me.”

Although Schuon made a home for himself within this spiritual framework, he was in no sense an apologist for the Islamic tradition, but maintained close ties throughout his long life with authorities and wayfarers in a wide variety of orthodox religions, each of which, he insisted, is a saving expression of a single Truth, which he variously referred to as the sophia perennis or philosophia perennis, that is, the“perennial wisdom” or “perennial philosophy”.

6/22/2006 12:46:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

I might add that I too, like Schuon, was compelled for various reasons as a younger man to seek out a non-Christian esoteric tradition, but that I nevertheless remain Christian as well.

6/22/2006 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger Lisa said...

Funny how things have a way of being knit together. Walking has been a big part of my life lately. My workshops center on this. After the workshop I got a fortune cookie that said, "To reach distant places, you have to take the first step." I saw Joaquin Phoenix at a favorite Sushi bar last week. He is very handsome and striking. Sat next to a minister on the plane the other day and we talked about my synthesis of walking, alignment, and breath along with spirituality. On our walk to the store yesterday, we helped out a blind veteran of World War 2 & Korea find his way to be picked up and did a quick errand for him. My husband rented Walk The Line last night. We loved it. And now Kahn mentions the Carters! Gotta run, off to Austin for a pilates workshop called, Pilates from the inside out - finding your core values. Led by Mary Bowen who is a Jungian psychoanalyst and studied herself with Joseph Pilates. Very exciting. Probably won't be near a computer this weekend, but I will keep you all in my thoughts. I have decided to try to do one nice thing for a stranger each day, no matter how small or big. I would like to add to the lightness in the world, God knows there is enough darkness at this moment.

6/22/2006 01:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was tempted to despair as I saw the Left's attempts to slowly but surely destroy our cultural heritage from within combined with the Islamic Imperialists' attempts to destroy us from without, but then I realized that there may be an upside to all this.

Islamic Imperialism may in the end save us from the Leftists. It is possible that we almost need a voilent and evil systemic threat from without to force us to remember what good and evil is and who we are.

To put it another way: A frog may sit in the kettle while the water slowly heats to a boil, but even a frog might decide to jump if he sees someone planting explosives to demolish the entire kitchen.

I'm afraid, however, that it's going to take some time for that to happen. Things will likely get worse before they get better, just as in the long decade of the 1930's when capitalism looked like a failure and facism looked like a success. People were poor and the military was small and it's equipment was obsolete.

Then the Japanese did something really stupid (in my opinion): they struck so violently that we became filled with moral outrage, forgot our differences for a while, and fought like the whole world depended on us.

So, is it possible for that to happen again? What will it take?

Eric

6/22/2006 01:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All that you write and quote is correct, but, I would suggest that it is also misleading to diminish the fact that Schuon did not, of course, under any circumstances, think Islam was evil, or, a heresy. He believed it was a true, complete, salvific religion, as with all the rest of the great revelations. I am well aware of the facts that you state, but it does not remove the other facts. I have personally met with a number of his Iranian disciples who say and believe all of the things that you suggest they cannot say. This is not to say that they find the climate of modern Iran agreeable (I am making no argument for moral equivalence), but they are not persecuted--his chief disciple there is a mathematician at a university and brings many into Schuon's path by way of teaching mathematics.

I am a little confused when you write, but that I nevertheless remain Christian as well". Do you wish to imply from this that Schuon remained a Christian? He would have, which one can easily glean from just a cursory view of his writings, eschewed this phrase. He was totally opposed to the mixing of forms. He prayed Islamically, all the while remaining, in his heart, above all forms. He never mixed these levels. He nonetheless believed, of course, that Christianity was also an authentic revelation. But no better or worse a revelation than Islam--both are salvific.

My entire point, again, was to refute the idea that Islam is evil, or even a heresy. It is not, and certainly, Schuon both by his actions, and the actions of his disciples, and his beliefs, which are to be found in his writings, refute the notions quite well. Certainly, he made no pretense at being an Islamic apologist, but he would have been violently opposed to the idea that Islam, as a religion as such, is evil. How could it have been, if he became one, even, if only for the sake of initiation? Authentic Sufis, in his view, are a priori, and by definition, first of all, Muslims.

6/22/2006 01:30:00 PM  
Blogger Alan said...

I'm not old enough to know how well understood by the average person the fundamental pillars of western civilization were during WWII.

My bet is "not much". Given the alien nature of our enemies, it didn't take much to rally everyone to the cause.

However, this time I believe that it is going to take the average person learning/relearning the truths laid out in the declaration of independence.

With a substantial enemy within the US which is fundamentally against what made us successful though they deny being anti-American at every turn, it is going to take nothing less than a massive relearning of who we are to win the coming battles.

We must each become both a protective vessel and a teacher of the values of western civilization in order for this great experiment to survive.

One of the things that gives me hope is the power of the internet as a learning institution. Over the last 6 years since coming to the US, I have received nothing less than a PhD in western civilation just by reading blogs (and the good reference materials they point to).

It is incumbent on each of us to learn as much as we can and share that learning with all those who will listen.

6/22/2006 01:44:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Anonymous, you are very wrong again. In the mid 1960's Schuon had several profound and transformative visions and experiences with Mary, who later became central to his practice. This is why he changed the name of his group to Tariqah Maryamiyyah. In his prayers he invoked the name of the Virgin Mary, and even felt that he had been saved by her during a personal crisis in 1965, from which he thought he would die. So say all you want about "not mixing forms." He was a Vedantin jnani and a "marialotrous" bhakti.

6/22/2006 01:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bob,
You do no service to your overall message by insisting on being right on this point. Question: Did Schuon believe Islam was an authentic revelation? Did he believe Islam as a religion was evil? Yes and no, respectively. As for his revelations from the Virgin, she came not as a Christian, but as mother of the Logos. I really like your formulation, " He was a Vedantin jnani and a "marialotrous" bhakti."
This is true, but his prayers to Mary were not Christian prayers. Neither were they Islamic prayers, but they were always in Arabic. As regards Schuon, I have been wrong on no point. He did not remain a Christian, though he was very influenced, of course, by the Christian tradition. The point again, is that Islam, as such, is not evil.

6/22/2006 02:22:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Anonymous--

We're just going to have to agree to disagree. In any event, the purpose of this blog is not to propagate Schuon's ideas, but my own ideas and beliefs, including my own interpretation of Schuon's ideas--just as Schuon's purpose was to propagate his own interpretations of others who would not necessarily agree with the way he had used their ideas--in fact, would undoubtedly strenuously object to the way he had used and interpreted their ideas and traditions.

Some day people will do the same thing with my ideas, and there's not a thing I can do about it. The spirit bloweth where it listeth, and as Schuon always emphasized, "it takes all kinds to make a world."

6/22/2006 02:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is out there, whatever it is. It is bigger than any political party or terrorist movement.

I can feel it closing in on me. And I know what it wants. It wants to take away my hope.

If only I fall into despair, it will be able to take me.

I am made to feel that I am fighting this battle alone. No one and nothing has shown any but the faintest sign of coming forward to help me, the faintest gesture of assistance.

I am alone. It's not enough anymore to think that I can be helped.

Take me, whatever you are. I am losing my hope, just like you wanted.

I am ready for you.

6/22/2006 03:45:00 PM  
Anonymous jwm said...

Anonymous wrote:
My entire point, again, was to refute the idea that Islam is evil, or even a heresy.

Please then reconcile that statement with the following quotes:

Was Jesus the son of God?


In blasphemy indeed are those that say that God is Christ the son of Mary. -Surah 5:17 (Yusuf Ali)

They say: "God hath begotten a son!" - Glory be to Him! He is self-sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this! Say ye about Allah what ye know not? -Surah 10:68 (Yusuf Ali)

They said, "The Most Gracious has begotten a son"! You have uttered a gross blasphemy. The heavens are about to shatter, the earth is about to tear asunder, and the mountains are about to crumble. Because they claim that the Most Gracious has begotten a son. It is not befitting the Most Gracious that He should beget a son. –Surah 19:88-92 (Rashad Khalifa)

…the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! -Surah 9:30 (Yusuf Ali)

****
On the trinity

They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. –Surah 5:73 (Yusuf Ali)

****
On the crucifiction
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise – Surah 4:157-8 (Yusuf Ali)

****
On the Jews
Amongst them we (Allah) have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief. -Surah 5:64 (Yusuf Ali)

JWM

6/22/2006 03:47:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Anonymous--

If you think for one moment that Schuon was or would have ever become a normative or "average Muslim" as practiced anywhere in the contemporary Islamic world, I believe you are very mistaken--any more than he would have been an exponent of debased, "big box" style Christianity. He didn't even have any use for "average Sufism," let alone the typical lunatic corner imam. It is no coincidence that he prefered to live in Switzerland and the United States, not a Muslim country. He voted with his feet for Christendom. Nothing to be ashamed of there.

You clearly have an agenda. I have no desire to talk you out it. We simply disagree.

6/22/2006 04:07:00 PM  
Anonymous jwm said...

This is the last time I will address you, anonymous, so long as you do not have enough courage in your own convictions to even put a name to your posts. You said you want to argue with me or lisa. Here's your chance. I don't care about Schuon. I have not read his works. I'm sure he has some lovely ideas. Bob, and many others here think highly of him.
But you remain sadly deluded about islam, its nature, and its intentions. You said islam was not evil or heretical. Evil is as evil does.
I gave you a bunch of quotes from the koran and the hadith yesterday. You have the quotes from the koran in my last post today, and my invitation regarding them. The koran speaks for itself. Take the words right from the bogeyman's mouth. Take them one at a time if you will.
I don't know where you are getting your information. I would suggest you begin with:
Jihad Watch
Gates of Vienna
Little Green Footballs,
and move on from there. The truth of the matter is that we are engaged in an apocalyptic holy war with islam. That war will continue until one side or the other is destroyed. Don't believe it? Too bad. They do believe it and they are eager both to kill, and to die for it. Look at Sweden, France, England. Look at Indonesia, the Philipines, Sudan, Somalia. Look at Iran Look at Israel. Look at Canada. And that's just for starters. Look right here at home. Go ahead and believe the "tiny minority of extremist" bullshit if you want. But you're whistling past the graveyard if you do. Finally, if you want to engage in discussion, fine. But have the guts to put a name to your posts. I use the same nic here, at LGF, and at the hobby sites where I am a participant and board administrator. Like them or not, my ideas are what they are. I am not ashamed of them.

JWM

6/22/2006 04:30:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Anonymous--

I didn't approve of the tone you just took, so I had to delete you there. Trust me, we all got your point anyway. And I've expressed mine--as well as Schuon's, from the authorized biography. So we'll just let readers decide for themselves.

6/22/2006 04:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

there is a force for degradation; it is evil.

we all have an inclination to do evil.

good people dont give into the evil inclination.

evil people celebrate it and proselytize it.

evil cannot be eradicated, but groups which proselytize it can be destroyed, and the tools they use to proselytize can be destroyed to.

germany denazified itself.

a similar thing must happen among the one billion muslims.

obviously this is a bigger project.

a grand gesture or horrific terror more horrific than 9/11 by a mllion powers might be the catalyst.

a grand gestgure big enouhg to swya hundreds of millions of people would constitute a miracle.

the re-discovery of the ark and re-appearance of the temple would qualify.

a negative event is much more likely. followed by retribution/justice and eradication of the insitutions which promulgate evil.

this will happen within the next decade.

it might be a "natural" event: a globally catastophic meteor/comet strike or a bird flu pandemic coiuld do it.

or a series of massively devastating wmd attacks on the West.

in other words, the evil-doers may triggers he event which leads to their own demise. as in a self-cleaning oven. or a forest-fire which burns itself out. or a virus which kills all of its hosts.

stay tuned.

6/22/2006 05:37:00 PM  
Anonymous jwm said...

So between the wife's car trouble, my car trouble, a toothache, and a sniffing coughing manx cat I went from zero debt at this time last week to deep in the hole today. Yet at every turn I could do nothing but be grateful that it wasn't worse. The worn axle didn't snap, the broken timing belt didn't cause catastrophic head and piston damage, a deep cleaning and some penicillin beats a root canal, and a case of the sniffles isn't cat pneumonia (although Booger the Cat is still disgruntled about the shot). But it's the greater sense of unease that was the topic of the day. A lot of people seem to sense it. Maybe it's the slow realization that as Iraq begins to look (a little) hopeful, Iran and North Korea are both looking deadlier. The media continues the political war on the war, Bush, and the military. Another country, Somalia, has fallen to the jihad, terror cells in Canada, and now Florida... You know- armageddon those mean ol' apocalyptic blues. No goofing. It's enough to drive you to the center, force you to look for the meaning. And like I wrote last night after Dan Spomer posted- ultimately the meaning is simple Who are you? I AM.
Period.
Simple? yes. Easy? not by any stretch.
Lisa handed me the hint this afternoon: walk. So I did. The six mile loop does wonders. Solejar and Piccachio are brutally steep, and by the time I got to the top of the hill I was sweatin, panting, and just ready to give over. Brain running in circles thinking of the pointless damned arguing here all day when what I really wanted to do was talk about this, this, What is this? thing that's infecting everyone's subconscious. But I had to take stock there as I looked out through the haze toward Huntington Beach. Found myself saying, "Wait. Why am I passionate about this stuff? What am I doing arguing for the divinity and the trinity? What is it that I have come to believe? How did this happen?" I don't know. Blame Petey.

JWM

6/22/2006 09:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I understand, all too pefectly now, why people who hold certain beliefs or disbeliefs band together to form tight-knit communities. For awhile I had hope that civil discourse was possible between people of disparate views , but I finally understand that ny hope for that was misplaced...

6/23/2006 07:47:00 AM  
Anonymous dilys said...

I doubt anonymous will look back at this, but I wanted to say that airing disparate views is not always on the agenda. Sometimes it's communicating to deepen one's own understanding (and the clash of ideas is not the only, or always the best, way to do that, in spite of modern received wisdom).

I have good reason to know Bob does not vaunt himself as a Guru [separate him from oxymoronic comments "I know, and you don't, n'yaaah, n'yaah, etc."]. I believe he has fun writing this and making a circle of interested folk, as well as having a particular depth and perspective, developmental amalgated spirituality, maybe, that is worth feeling our way into as light on the way.

Blogs are deceptive. They may invite wild-ranging discussion, phatic community, or simply the opportunity to overhear and amplify the fruit of a good mind. Inhospitableness toward constant repetitive mosquito-like discontinuities of hostile baiting does not violate expectations of "civil discourse." IMO.

And I always personally like -- and need -- to remember to moderate my own overbearing tendencies to barge in and dictate, by asking myself Byron Katie's gentle question:
"Why would you want to spoil their fun?"

Well? Why would I?

6/23/2006 08:08:00 AM  

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