tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post8928045360893525825..comments2024-03-27T11:16:36.951-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: See, Learn, Breathe, Remember, and KnowGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-35843862718351456402008-07-16T05:54:00.000-07:002008-07-16T05:54:00.000-07:00Van - Can you direct me to a more appropriate venu...Van - Can you direct me to a more appropriate venue, then?Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-18554348795541491692008-07-15T12:21:00.000-07:002008-07-15T12:21:00.000-07:00Doh!<I>Doh!</I>Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-35468173560901080542008-07-15T12:08:00.000-07:002008-07-15T12:08:00.000-07:00"It IS, and you only are."Tisktisk Van, depends on..."It IS, and you only are."<BR/><BR/>Tisktisk Van, depends on what the definition of IS is<BR/>(HT Bubba)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-35221620046034251492008-07-15T11:43:00.000-07:002008-07-15T11:43:00.000-07:00ray said "...that's not a terribly profound statem...ray said "...that's not a terribly profound statement since 2+2=4 doesn't give a rat's ass about anything, even 2+2=4..."<BR/><BR/><I>twang.... foofthish</I><BR/><I>twang.... foofthish</I><BR/><I>twang.... foofthish</I><BR/><BR/>(the sounds of ray missing points)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-15411336638549503272008-07-15T11:40:00.000-07:002008-07-15T11:40:00.000-07:00ray, the problem is that the issues you want to fo...ray, the problem is that the issues you want to focus on, or are interested in, are not questioned by, or of interest to, those who are here. I know you won't get it, will probably try to linksplain where I'm wrong, but you really are just like a kid who's mastered basic math running into the Algebra II class and explaining how "n" and "x" don't really have any meaning.<BR/><BR/>You aren't challenging or stretching the boundaries of those who are here, but are attempting to shrink us back into what we've already understood and 'outgrown'(wrong word, but I've got to go)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-35937423742204788872008-07-15T11:35:00.000-07:002008-07-15T11:35:00.000-07:00Van - I actually said that 'No one here is making ...Van - I actually <I>said</I> that 'No one here is making any "If God wanted to have three sided squares, he could have!" arguments,' and just asked for confirmation.<BR/><BR/>The point that follows from that, though, is that while it's true that 2+2=4 "doesn't give a rats ass whether or not you like it", that's not a terribly profound statement since 2+2=4 doesn't give a rat's ass about anything, even 2+2=4. It's eternal, and just <I>IS</I> in some sense, but it's not anything like a conscious being, a mind, that could care or love. Nor would a collection of such things, or all of them, be a Subject, to use Bob's terminology, right?Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-35850524411019172762008-07-15T11:26:00.000-07:002008-07-15T11:26:00.000-07:00Erasmus - What motive must I have other than being...Erasmus - What motive must I have other than being interested in discussing some of the issues here? Of course I approach things from a different vantage point than most here, and I find some of the contentions made here incorrect (or at the very least overstated), but is discussing that forbidden in some 'terms of service' I missed?<BR/><BR/>As to my worldview...<BR/><BR/>1) Depends on the definition of the term 'God'. One of the reasons I, you know, asked the question above.<BR/><BR/>2) Depends on how you define the term 'work'. In terms of healing things, not so much. In terms of affecting how people feel about things, it certainly can. Not too different from C.S. Lewis on that one.<BR/><BR/>3) That seems the most likely, but is not absolutely established. It's <A HREF="http://onecosmos.blogspot.com/2008/06/on-eternal-love-affair-between-truth.html#c5759508616161257932" REL="nofollow">in principle testable</A>, though not in practice yet.<BR/><BR/>4) Replace "endlessly" with "often" and you're close.<BR/><BR/>Hoarhey - And to understand. I do tend to focus on things that I've got a decent handle on that don't seem to fit here, but assuming that can be sorted out it should be possible to build from there.Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-73781569930688630822008-07-15T11:23:00.000-07:002008-07-15T11:23:00.000-07:00Ray,Are you here to be understood?Ray,<BR/>Are you here to be understood?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-39207566266902550112008-07-15T11:16:00.000-07:002008-07-15T11:16:00.000-07:00ray said "So, the truths that "can't not be"... th...ray said "So, the truths that "can't not be"... they couldn't be different, right?"<BR/><BR/>It's pointless, but I've still got an idle moment or two. It's more a case of truth <I>wouldn't</I> be different, because that would be untrue... but that's not it either. It is what it is, and it is as it is, because it is. Things are as they are, because of what they are, and the context within which they are. And if you can't explain some portion of 'it', to your satisfaction, because the nature of 'it' is immeasurable, 'it' doesn't give a rats ass whether or not you like it.<BR/><BR/>It IS, and you only are.<BR/><BR/>There. Is that clear?<BR/><BR/>(BTW, I thought Erasmus's points summed it up perfectly clearly)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-84356244734933478232008-07-15T11:06:00.000-07:002008-07-15T11:06:00.000-07:00ray said "So, the truths that "can't not be"... th...ray said "So, the truths that "can't not be"... they couldn't be different, right? I mean, even God couldn't have made 2+2=5, right?"<BR/><BR/>No one here is making any "If God wanted to have three sided squares, he could have!" arguments. If you're going to miss the point, at least miss one that's been made.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-44955078075865526182008-07-15T11:04:00.000-07:002008-07-15T11:04:00.000-07:00Van - Since even Erasmus isn't sure the question w...Van - Since even Erasmus isn't sure the question would be answered there, I don't feel <I>too</I> bad for expressing doubt, too. Can <I>you</I> offer a more definitive pronouncement?Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-11492040092113713292008-07-15T10:53:00.000-07:002008-07-15T10:53:00.000-07:00hoarhey, it's like negative theology.http://en.wik...hoarhey, it's like negative theology.<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_theology<BR/><BR/>We cannot know the reason why Ray is here, we can only eliminate possible reasons why Ray is here.<BR/><BR/>It can't be curiousity, because he is seeminly uninterested in reading Bob's book.<BR/><BR/>Van, Well at least hs is admitting that hs is arguing from ignorance.<BR/><BR/>I'm going to take a crack at Ray's worlview. Ray, please correct any errors that you find:<BR/><BR/>1) God does not and cannot possibly exist<BR/>2) Prayer does not work<BR/>3) Humans are only unique arrangements and processes of molecules<BR/>4) It's endlessly entertaining to post and argue with other people on Bob's blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-55437066157900068932008-07-15T10:46:00.000-07:002008-07-15T10:46:00.000-07:00one sows faust said "No thanks "friends". With tha...one sows faust said "No thanks "friends". With that kind of "light", I'll sit out here in the "dark", taking notes."<BR/><BR/>Promises, promises....Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-66652813249877482042008-07-15T10:42:00.000-07:002008-07-15T10:42:00.000-07:00"I'm not confident my question would be answered b..."I'm not confident my question would be answered by the Coonifesto - I've been here a little while and I've not seen a clear (or even loosely veiled) attempt to address it. That's sort of why I asked."<BR/><BR/>Hmm... hey there ray, you seem to have a lot of faith in what you don't know, about what you haven't investigated, and objectively verified, with your own eyes.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-84654783858541235532008-07-15T10:38:00.000-07:002008-07-15T10:38:00.000-07:00Ray said;"I'm not here to be 'evangelical' or 'dec...Ray said;<BR/><BR/>"I'm not here to be 'evangelical' or 'deconvert' anyone. Mostly it's like I said at first - if people are going to disagree with me, it might as well be for what I actually believe and not a caricature thereof."<BR/><BR/>That is the closest thing you've stated in your links that could be interpreted as an answer to the question of, 'why are you here?'.<BR/><BR/>No wonder people are still asking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-90806057819455882072008-07-15T10:23:00.000-07:002008-07-15T10:23:00.000-07:00Erasmus - I guess I'll have to put up a FAQ or som...Erasmus - I guess I'll have to put up a FAQ or something. The question of why I'm here seems to come up about <A HREF="http://onecosmos.blogspot.com/2008/07/live-grenades-and-smoking-crater-at.html#c8753008671917372870" REL="nofollow">once a week</A>.<BR/><BR/>I'm not confident my question would be answered by the Coonifesto - I've been here a little while and I've not seen a clear (or even loosely veiled) attempt to address it. That's sort of why I asked.Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-59388475887961895662008-07-15T09:54:00.000-07:002008-07-15T09:54:00.000-07:00Hee hee hee hee haw haw, HEE HAW!Hee hee hee hee haw haw, HEE HAW!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-69896686450652477552008-07-15T09:49:00.000-07:002008-07-15T09:49:00.000-07:00Julie, for the record:I wasn't directing the grand...Julie, for the record:<BR/><BR/>I wasn't directing the grandma tale to you, but to the s/he man JofA, so anxious to take no prisoners she's locked herself outside of heaven, she would have us believe. I don't hang well with those women who brag about the size of their...well, you know. <BR/><BR/>You, for the record, have consistently exhibited (from my vantage point) the capacity to make mistakes, to learn from them, to move forward with pride slightly bruised. I gotta respect that. It's not a coonish trait. Now that I think about it, I'm sorry I picked on you in the first place. I just saw the reference, remembered how the actual event had been misrepresented by this video, and did my own bit of hasty jumping. I apologize. <BR/><BR/>Now. Why is it that Bobsong, when deposited by some outlander no one can call by name, seems so foul? Doth not a coon's feces emit any odor? Look at today's steamin new pile of Bobdigestion and ask why someone might come away with the understanding that here in BobLand a healthy fistful of dung-slinging goes hand-in-hand with an enlightened mind....<BR/><BR/>....so long as yer a coon. No thanks "friends". With that kind of "light", I'll sit out here in the "dark", taking notes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-19486936741202416492008-07-15T09:47:00.000-07:002008-07-15T09:47:00.000-07:00I'm not an expert on Bob or Bob's cosmoslogy. I h...I'm not an expert on Bob or Bob's cosmoslogy. I haven't read the books.<BR/><BR/>I think that in Bob's cosmoslogy, God contains the cosmos. <BR/><BR/>Ever read A New Kind of Science? <BR/>http://www.maa.org/reviews/wolfram.html<BR/><BR/>I think that you keep talking about cellular automata. You seem to like the driven pendulum.<BR/><BR/>I have another question. Why are you here?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-53213317759432035712008-07-15T09:36:00.000-07:002008-07-15T09:36:00.000-07:00Erasmus, I believe that you already replied to ray...Erasmus, I believe that you already <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Praise_of_Folly" REL="nofollow">replied</A> to ray long ago.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-53808461877374792182008-07-15T09:19:00.000-07:002008-07-15T09:19:00.000-07:00Erasmus, people aren't visiting other dimensions e...Erasmus, <I>people</I> aren't visiting other dimensions either, in the sense of a <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penteract" REL="nofollow">penteract</A> or whatever.<BR/><BR/>If you don't want to talk about that, though, you could just answer the last question I asked. Might be more productive anyway.Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-90132641985380444802008-07-15T09:14:00.000-07:002008-07-15T09:14:00.000-07:00Ray, You can probably get a sense of Bob's cosmol...Ray,<BR/><BR/> You can probably get a sense of Bob's cosmology by reading his book, I would think. And the other books he mentions. <BR/><BR/> Just out of curiosity, what is your cosmology?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-8244320858617798152008-07-15T08:48:00.000-07:002008-07-15T08:48:00.000-07:00Ray, I have an idea. Let's spend all day talking...Ray,<BR/><BR/> I have an idea. Let's spend all day talking about how brown is a different color than blue. Or better yet, how the number 2 is different than the number 3.<BR/><BR/> The driven pendulum is not visiting other dimensions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-50433733328063689422008-07-15T07:47:00.000-07:002008-07-15T07:47:00.000-07:00So, the truths that "can't not be"... they couldn'...So, the truths that "can't not be"... they couldn't be different, right? I mean, even <I>God</I> couldn't have made 2+2=5, right?<BR/><BR/>In that sense, the "vast new dimension that was awaiting us" couldn't <I>not</I> be, right? The new dimensions available to a driven pendulum with "inexplicable suddenness" - given just that <I>tiny</I> bit more "oomph" in the drive - were always "waiting" there, too.<BR/><BR/>But they weren't <I>created</I>, right? If they can't not be, then they are as eternal as anything could ever be. As Einstein put it, "Did God have a choice in creating the universe?"<BR/><BR/>So, in the cosmology here on this site, is God "the set of all eternal things", or is it something else that sits 'on top of' all of them?Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-41831238761054826802008-07-15T05:46:00.000-07:002008-07-15T05:46:00.000-07:00What Julie said, again... and again.Sorry Magnus.....What Julie said, again... and again.<BR/><BR/>Sorry Magnus... I know Walt, I know.<BR/><BR/>Ooh... good idea Joan, I'll get the salt Hoarhey....<BR/>(I know, I know... just once more)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.com