tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post6270333287194168900..comments2024-03-27T11:16:36.951-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Gods --> Kings --> Men --> ChaosGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-77683288764141491702007-06-27T09:47:00.000-07:002007-06-27T09:47:00.000-07:00Van, re triffids, that's what a meant to say (no, ...Van, re triffids, that's what a meant to say (no, really!), but sadly at almost midnight last night I just didn't quite manage it, so "me, too" instead :)juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-27778737073329282462007-06-27T08:39:00.000-07:002007-06-27T08:39:00.000-07:00Van,Ah... the trouble with triffids. Indeed.Vis a ...Van,<BR/>Ah... the trouble with triffids. <BR/><BR/>Indeed.<BR/><BR/>Vis a vis your 'disks spread out on a table' vs 'multiple ordered stacks', perhaps a shorthand 'name' for each would be useful at this point. You know, each 'name' containing the whole concept, so it's easier to play around with them.<BR/><BR/>Long time friend (thinky-computer-hack-type) & I have come up shorthand versions of concepts to facilitate discussions & analysis. We amuse ourselves by trying to predict how people we know will act based on what we know about their histories, abilities, personalities, known driving motivations, etc. We keep a running tally of hits/misses, fine tuning as we go.<BR/><BR/>Example: multi-bagger vs one-bagger. Think grocery checkout.<BR/>An mb will look at your groceries & work with multiple bags, sorting & filling as they go. A ob works with one bag at a time, filling it & then moving on to the next. Multi-processors vs liner-processors. <BR/><BR/>So, watcha think? Ideas?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-90701898014265825652007-06-27T08:07:00.000-07:002007-06-27T08:07:00.000-07:00Oh, I don't recommend it for accuracy, he gives a ...Oh, I don't recommend it for accuracy, he gives a warning for 'recovering scientific positivists' (people who would believe because it is 'scientific' it can therefore predict the future.) But it is chilling, sobering and sparks the imagination in ways few other things have for me. <BR/><BR/>It is like a field ready to bear the fruit of some excellent science fiction - if someone were to raise the pen.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-7746661483131479812007-06-27T07:14:00.000-07:002007-06-27T07:14:00.000-07:00G-Bob -can't recall if it was a fragment of an OC ...G-Bob -<BR/><BR/>can't recall if it was a fragment of an OC thread,<BR/>but did you once also discuss<BR/>(in an echo of today's thread) <BR/>the idea that one psych model held that paranoia,narcissism and depression were base-line elements or "natural" states to be "transcended", <BR/>and that mental-health <BR/>was the maintenance-level of keeping these psych components <BR/>in balance or in check.<BR/><BR/>it may have been Dr Sanity <BR/>who had discussed it.<BR/><BR/>any comments?<BR/><BR/>the<BR/>'paranoia-from-firehose-of-info'<BR/>is potentially a very fruitful discussion.<BR/><BR/>it almost suffered,imo,from the inclusion of the donkey party <BR/>celeb arguements and quotes.<BR/><BR/>they are merely a symptom,not a cause,imo.<BR/>their politics are the result of a crippled metaphysics.<BR/><BR/>i dare say the current republican crop is suffering from the same phenomena.<BR/><BR/>ok,back to reading everyone's comments.gumshoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10567181585153569751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-13587026766751295992007-06-27T05:58:00.000-07:002007-06-27T05:58:00.000-07:00River,I didn't get a chance to more than glance at...River,<BR/><BR/>I didn't get a chance to more than glance at the site you ref'd, but looks interesting. The series of paintings he uses, 'The Voyage of Life' and 'The Course of Empire' by <A HREF="http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/art.asp?aid=704" REL="nofollow">Thomas Cole</A>, are some of my favorites. I'm not a big fan of Spengler, but as a basis for a 'tale' is interesting, and the idea of a Program churning it out, is one I've thought would make a <I>great</I> sci-fi story. You can just picture the end of the world, and the scene disolving, pulling back to show it running on a students desktop who is making notes "... results of this Genesis program indicate a common historical cycle has a 83% probability to execute the self-destrut cycle when..." and Rod Serling standing in the corner behind them "...And so the fortunes of kings and commoner are written... in code... in the Twilight Zone'"<BR/><BR/>;-)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-54342637778953300802007-06-27T05:39:00.000-07:002007-06-27T05:39:00.000-07:00Ah... the trouble with triffids. "...are achieving...Ah... the trouble with triffids. "...are achieving parity with men in earnings, which will gradually straighten out family dysfunctions..."<BR/><BR/>(do I detect our semi-trollish 'marriage is a power struggle' trol-lite there?)<BR/><BR/>Any assumption that earnings, or privledge or handouts or anyother outside concoction is going to solve a families dysfunctions, or the psychological/philosophical errors at their root, is just... silly.<BR/><BR/>I think I'm the resident touter of 'it isn't as bad as you think, it's never been better, and could be great' but there's a big <I>but</I> there, followed by an even bigger <I>IF</I>. We have the ability for it to be the simplest of things for everyone to become educated (<I>Not</I> degree'd, but <I>Educated</I>, which is an entirely different thing), but it involves people choosing to become more sound, it involves people being inspired to become more solid in character than they are, it involves people doing what is right and good and true - because it is so. And <I><B>that</B></I> involves a culture centered around the Good, the Beautiful and the True, and a sound philosophical understanding of the world such as is provided in classical liberalism, and a recognition that it is more important and satisfying to exalt the spirit than the celebrity - and that world is still somewhat far removed from the present.<BR/><BR/>It can easily be chosen - but that choice is in many ways the most difficult thing of all. In fact, the first and oldest choice of them all - to stand or fall - and one is far mroe easy to do than the other.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-32414422209129663472007-06-27T05:03:00.000-07:002007-06-27T05:03:00.000-07:00Oops - Patricia A. McKillipOops - Patricia <B>A</B>. McKillipVan Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-87364954557268951782007-06-27T04:32:00.000-07:002007-06-27T04:32:00.000-07:00Yes, they were the best of times, the bread, the c...Yes, they were the best of times, the bread, the circuses, the finest palaces - and then, where did those barbarians come from?<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.johnreilly.info/cont.htm" REL="nofollow">This is worth a read if only for its sobering effect.</A> The best of times usually precedes the worst.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-7509854340322297742007-06-26T22:52:00.000-07:002007-06-26T22:52:00.000-07:00Triffid, while you are right on some counts (yes, ...Triffid, while you are right on some counts (yes, in many ways things are better now than ever before on this planet, at least for those of us fortunate enough to live in the developed world, and you are right that that's something to be happy about), this seems an odd notion to me:<BR/><BR/>"Women are achieving parity with men in earnings, which will gradually straighten out family dysfunctions, which will ultimately palliate out most of our problems altogether."<BR/><BR/>I am delighted that, in this country at least, women and men are as close to being equal under the law as a human society can conceivably be, however I find it odd that you think the <I>earnings</I> of men and women will straighten out family dysfunction. In fact, I think it is fair to say that in families where both parents work full-time, the stresses of life are often worse, not better, than when one spouse works while the other manages the home or works part-time. I know a fairly large number of professional couples; in my experience, they are <I>not</I> happier having "income parity," but since they believe that this is what modern life is supposed to be like, they don't know to change it. (See also the earlier linked Van der Leun article; this mentality is also another example of knowing more and more about less and less.)juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-88981669899424031632007-06-26T22:33:00.000-07:002007-06-26T22:33:00.000-07:00Bob, I find you in violation of spirit law 1.1 --t...Bob, I find you in violation of spirit law 1.1 --the prohibition against promulgating pessimism.<BR/><BR/>There is no "age of chaos" coming--things are actually improving. Women are achieving parity with men in earnings, which will gradually straighten out family dysfunctions, which will ultimately palliate out most of our problems altogether.<BR/><BR/>Crime, divorce, unemployment--all going down.<BR/><BR/>Earnings and productivity going up--in spite of (or because of?) the green revolution.<BR/><BR/>Yes. It's all coming together. This is the best time to live that ever was.<BR/><BR/>Nobody is boggled by the information age, Bob. Sorry. That just isn't the case.<BR/><BR/>Anybody boggled among you readers out there? Too much info? <BR/><BR/>I doubt it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-88463734493547391792007-06-26T21:07:00.000-07:002007-06-26T21:07:00.000-07:00Agree on Sci-fi as well, the last refuge of the fi...Agree on Sci-fi as well, the last refuge of the fiction writer who doesn't want to wallow in 'realism' and self pity.<BR/><BR/>The Authors mentioned above, Orson Scott Card, Robert Jordan... and going back to the 70's or 80's, I remember Patricia K. McKillip took some great twists on myths and told them with a lyrical styleVan Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-62919484497426926282007-06-26T20:57:00.000-07:002007-06-26T20:57:00.000-07:00River Cocytus said... "PS- just to rehash- Stones ...River Cocytus said... "PS- just to rehash- Stones into bread!"<BR/><BR/>Hmm... picture seeing The Stones singing anything by Bread....Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-65746295094684845682007-06-26T20:56:00.000-07:002007-06-26T20:56:00.000-07:00Ximeze,"'The Ghost & Mrs Muir' with Rex Harrison &...Ximeze,<BR/>"'The Ghost & Mrs Muir' with Rex Harrison & Gene Tierney" - oh yeah, definitly got that one.<BR/><BR/>Afraid I'm prejudiced on the Pickering role, saw my uncle do it on stage a couple times - (he was also a great King Pellinore in Camelot)... but I'll keep 2nd place open for review.<BR/><BR/>;-)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-13232158605524582272007-06-26T20:52:00.000-07:002007-06-26T20:52:00.000-07:00Also, um. All 19's.Hey nineteen, take me along whe...Also, um. All 19's.<BR/><BR/>Hey nineteen, take me along when you slide on down....Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-11723477912227214342007-06-26T20:50:00.000-07:002007-06-26T20:50:00.000-07:00By the way, I looked at the top 100 Sci Fi short s...By the way, I looked at the top 100 Sci Fi short stories, and the names have a kind of beauty to them. <A HREF="http://home.austarnet.com.au/petersykes/topscifi/lists_short_stories.html" REL="nofollow">Read here and see if you agree.</A> I wonder why that is?Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-46231329008774507492007-06-26T20:47:00.000-07:002007-06-26T20:47:00.000-07:00PS- just to rehash- Stones into bread!Your regular...PS- just to rehash- Stones into bread!<BR/><BR/>Your regularly scheduled commenting follows.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-61246648763979169312007-06-26T20:42:00.000-07:002007-06-26T20:42:00.000-07:00Modern music is in many ways quite simply a failur...Modern music is in many ways quite simply a failure to rout the first temptation of Satan - to make stones into bread.<BR/><BR/>The correct response of course is, "Man does not live by 'bread' alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."<BR/><BR/>There are rare gems, and Jazz is, for some reason to my ears (if we're talking real Jazz, fusion Jazz and not freeform drugged out madness) beautiful, I can just pick a random tune I don't know and it's golden. Maybe my ears are now trained having played quite a bit of it, and listened quite a lot. <BR/><BR/>But most stuff is like trying to squeeze rain out of sand - eventually the sand really is dry, and when is the tide coming in? The ocean is cold, it chilled my body, but not my soul.<BR/><BR/>Much of it has become too market-minded, it is wise to turn a profit, but foolish to turn everything to profit. Information business is many ways turning stones into bread; something as free as information being sold like gold? When it goes wrong, it goes really wrong. Obviously, there are clear uses for it; some expertise really is invaluable. But much more of it is painted stones. <BR/><BR/>But it seems to me just an instance of this world speeding towards chaos; increasingly frantic and disassociated businesses... I heard on the news today (not voluntarily mind you) about hedge funds and the multi-billionaires that have resulted. Of course, these fellows were millionaires to begin with with a nose for business and a skill of risk management. But now they're trying to get the upper-middle class into this game - the hedge funders are trying to turn everything to profit you see, anything they have that is not profiting them, they must use it for money. And so there will be books and seminars and websites trying to pry the 'unwitting' into hedge funds.<BR/><BR/>Whether these people are unwitting is not salient at all, some are perfectly aware that they're playing a Very Dangerous Game with their money and are accomplices to what could for many be nothing short of Russian Roulette, a grand Lottery. <BR/><BR/>It would be like a gardener selling not only the fruit, but the leaves, stems, stones, roots, all parts of the plant, no matter how nonsensical. <BR/><BR/>He would find a use for them, yes - turn those stones into bread. <BR/><BR/>But eventually all you're left with? Stones. And no-one to buy them, either. Hope you like selling gravel...<BR/><BR/>(I'm reminded of the concept of 'value-adding' things. It is a valid idea up to a certain point. For instance, unchecked by higher reason it might devolve into charging x hundreds of dollars more just because of a name change. The attitude coupled with it would be of disdain for the customer and a belief of being independent of him.)<BR/><BR/>But I digress in this already long comment. We must add something of value to the world, and without (as the American Thinker guy is thinking) the Telos, all is meaningless. <BR/><BR/>I mused today about health insurance, and how what is health worth if one does not do some good under the sun? I would rather change the lives of those most needing it and live short than live until 120 consuming and gazing into a mirror.<BR/><BR/>It seems like these days we have almost too much security; in the days of Gods and Kings men were more disposable; not to say that it is a good thing, but rather, the culture of insurance breeds men of safety, just as men who seek safety create insurance. The only escape is up, seems like.<BR/><BR/>But will men go up? Or will they shout at the rocks until they believe they are bread? Even as the manna collects at their feet and proceeds to rot?<BR/><BR/>It crossed my mind that the last 'kings' were the Founding Fathers, men who may have been of average intellect, or strength, or courage, but yet were capable of much more. Some of it is the culture of safety.<BR/><BR/>The culture of safety of course immediately gave birth, in human fashion, to the anti-saftiests, not people who dislike busybodies mind you, but the other 'side' of the busybody. For as the coward is also a bully, the busybody is also a slacker. These are the anarchists, of course, who worship license over all things, and believe themselves to be the solution for the 'repressive' rules of society. You know, these fellows sprang right out of the loins of the Boheme...<BR/><BR/>And they of course worship the many, the plurality, the diversity, as though it is the infinite, as though countability can be made into uncountability. Or, stones into bread.<BR/><BR/>Did I say that enough times? I doubt it.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-69089111774567397002007-06-26T20:30:00.000-07:002007-06-26T20:30:00.000-07:00Van:You've NEVER seen LH's Pygmalion????Oh boy, ar...Van:<BR/>You've NEVER seen LH's Pygmalion????<BR/>Oh boy, are you in for a treat.<BR/><BR/>Caution: ISS Alert to go with it.<BR/><BR/>Own a copy, so watch it regularly. Last time was eating cherries,<BR/><BR/>and,<BR/><BR/>well,<BR/><BR/>you know........<BR/><BR/>A like-minded friend & I were positing who alive today could do justice to a remake, a-la LH. We came up with Hugh Laurie for Proff Higgins, Kate Blanchett for Eliza & (not too sure he's right) Michael Kitchen (of Foyle's War) for Pickering. Perhaps Ridley Scott as director? Can't be an American: too PC & PoMo to give it flair.<BR/><BR/>Another ISS # is 'The Ghost & Mrs Muir' with Rex Harrison & Gene Tierney - if you haven't seen it, a real treat too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-37541551901532635642007-06-26T19:58:00.000-07:002007-06-26T19:58:00.000-07:00Bob,As you have elucidated in many of your posts, ...Bob,<BR/>As you have elucidated in many of your posts, the music of the past can make just as rich a retreat from the chaos and postmodernism of today as the literature. It seems today that the most popular bands are ones fronted by guys or gals that can't sing a note..which to me speaks of a postmodern obsession with being "edgy" and "relevant", rather than actually having talent. It's one of the reasons I prefer the old progressive rock and fusion jazz of the 70's ("progressive" not having the same meaning as the political term here), or some of the modern classical composers like Prokofiev, Mahler, Vaughn Williams, etc, to the mindless thumping of rap and hip hop that are the exception rather than the rule today. Rap, hip hop, techno, trans, and all those postmodern styles mostly leave me feeling lifeless inside; perhaps that's because they have no real life behind them. How far behind can the chaos be when today's chart toppers are chosen on American Idol instead of working their way up and proving themselves like they used to?<BR/>Oddly, for literature, I often turn to the science fiction of the past; Bradbury, Anthony, Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, etc. The dystopian worlds they sometimes portray are at times frighteningly similar to what we see unfolding today. I'm particularly reminded of Asimov's Foundation and Robot books, and the Psychohistory theorems of Hari Seldon, which postulate a kind of descent into chaos as a part of the history of all planetary civlilzations. I shudder when I read this, wondering if Asimov was really onto something (I realize that he, Clarke and others were staunch atheists, but they still had an uncanny sense of where things were going and where they could go). The old "paranoid" sci fi movie classics of the 70's (Omega Man, Planet of the Apes, Soylent Green, Logan's Run, Westworld,Rollerball) don't seem as paranoid as they used to, upon more recent viewing.<BR/>As to the concept of ages of man, I'm reminded of the ages that Tolkien spells out in his vast history of Middle Earth. But, unlike Joyce's ages, for Tolkien the Age of Men is the last age, and it's a triumphant age, where mankind finally gets it together to defeat evil and ascends the throne of rightful dominance. Unfortunately I don't see this country going anywhere near that kind of future. <BR/>Van, great picture of the abject sloppiness of the leftist mind; psychologists have often said that you can tell a lot about someone by the way they keep their house (all the unstable people I've known had total pigstys). I guess the same can be said of the mind, the soul and the heart.<BR/><BR/>"You're a mean one, Mr Maher<BR/>You're a nasty, wasty skunk<BR/>Your soul is full of spiders<BR/>your head is full of gunk<BR/>Mr MaaaaaAAAR!!"<BR/><BR/>Dr Seuus's take on Bill MaherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-60577416501377531452007-06-26T19:39:00.000-07:002007-06-26T19:39:00.000-07:00Sal, thanks for the link; that was a good read. ha...Sal, thanks for the link; that was a good read. having been to art school, I can imagine only too well the artist in question (though to be fair, none of my fellow students were that bad).juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-90046559898358600422007-06-26T19:36:00.000-07:002007-06-26T19:36:00.000-07:00Odd's Fish, Joan! That was rather good!Ximeze said...Odd's Fish, Joan! That was rather good!<BR/><BR/>Ximeze said "Recently re-watched SP & Pygmalion, both the Leslie Howard versions made in the '30s. It may be 70 years since they were made, but they shine like new pennys"<BR/><BR/>I've seen his SP several times, but have missed out on Pygmalion... I'll have to Netflix that one!Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-19707001027631472122007-06-26T19:05:00.000-07:002007-06-26T19:05:00.000-07:00Joan: Way to go! with the Scarlet P.Recently re-wa...Joan: <BR/>Way to go! with the Scarlet P.<BR/><BR/>Recently re-watched SP & Pygmalion, both the Leslie Howard versions made in the '30s. It may be 70 years since they were made, but they shine like new pennysAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-38553737712269699842007-06-26T17:40:00.000-07:002007-06-26T17:40:00.000-07:00Also on art and shallowness:http://www.sheilaomall...Also on art and shallowness:<BR/>http://www.sheilaomalley.com/<BR/>see: "The Chinese Lobster".<BR/><BR/>I remember that one, Van. Very profound.Salhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13201226644704622876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-63416302173971822282007-06-26T17:34:00.000-07:002007-06-26T17:34:00.000-07:00Re: all of the above, Me too.Van:They seek him her...Re: all of the above, Me too.<BR/><BR/>Van:<BR/>They seek him here<BR/>They seek him there<BR/>Those Lefties seek him everywhere!<BR/>Why won't he listen?<BR/>Can't he shut his gob?<BR/>That damned elusive Gagdad Bob!Joan of Argghh!https://www.blogger.com/profile/14729682908266300507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-13223202516580827012007-06-26T17:02:00.000-07:002007-06-26T17:02:00.000-07:00Van:Ditto Einstein, whose evocation of God in his ...Van:<BR/><BR/>Ditto Einstein, whose evocation of God in his later years was quietly beautiful.<BR/><BR/>Of course the article is full of lies. It's like my observations above on Bill Maher: these people ARE lies.Stephen Macdonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13474300559219020772noreply@blogger.com