tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post4960485607931201416..comments2024-03-18T21:33:35.309-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Revolting!Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-87735287400774759832010-10-29T23:53:58.389-07:002010-10-29T23:53:58.389-07:00Well, I don't like to toot my horn...especiall...Well, I don't like to toot my horn...especially since I lost my chops, but I have been called a wise guy before (and from fellow three stooges fans, no less).<br /><br />Although, by no one named guido or vinny. Then again, I don't know anyone named guido or vinny so perhap[s that's why.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-7983017248582427372010-10-29T07:36:01.244-07:002010-10-29T07:36:01.244-07:00Jack says:
""I must create my own syste...Jack says:<br /><br />""I must create my own system, or be enslaved by another man's<br />I will not reason and compare, my business is to create".<br /><br />I am both greatly moved and horrified by this statement. It seems to be, at once, a beautiful declaration of creative freedom and also the death knell of Truth."<br /><br />It's not the death knell of Truth.<br /><br />To me, a simple fact is that I must necessarily be able to create my own system (e.g. actualize my personality, perform my karmic duty, [insert similar statement here]) within the overarching constraints of the Good, the Beautiful, and the True. These are the contstraints without which true freedom would be impossible.<br /><br />The problem arises when you create systems that interfere with other people's absolute right to be themselves. <br /><br />It is these (closed) systems that can and must be destroyed. See the Soviet Union and North Korea for further details.<br /><br />Now the flip side of this is that you have to be able to tell what is a "mind parasite" an what is the actual underlying personality.JPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126071014909954387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-62821277605277173402010-10-29T05:49:29.887-07:002010-10-29T05:49:29.887-07:00...of course Freedom is often a dangerous thing, w......of course Freedom is often a dangerous thing, which is probably why so many are ambivalent about it. Which is why I like the quote.Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06708393262849661076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-7233183087724852052010-10-29T05:47:27.811-07:002010-10-29T05:47:27.811-07:00I guess what gives me pause on the quote is not ne...I guess what gives me pause on the quote is not necessarily Blake himself, but seeing the use many would put such a sentiment later in our cultural history. That it can be used to justify pretty much anything...especially if one decides that somehow creation is wholly opposed to reason.<br /><br />It seems like it means something a bit different looking at it with 200 years of history between us and Blake...Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06708393262849661076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-83808064523036763852010-10-29T04:11:50.622-07:002010-10-29T04:11:50.622-07:00Jack I dunno the period/context but yr WB reads li...Jack I dunno the period/context but yr WB reads like an Artist-over-Businessman type distinction too:<br />He pioneeringly did it all out on a limb by hisself<br /><br />Crowley called him Uncle...<br /><br />--+ was Irish "O'Neill" Blake's forebears' name? ---Aye According to Yeats---<br />my Dad's clan was Neill<br /><br />corna= wv<br />-copiousgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02015936407999495181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-31658423476742014202010-10-28T19:19:43.809-07:002010-10-28T19:19:43.809-07:00Jack,
By their fruits you shall know them..
And I...Jack,<br />By their fruits you shall know them..<br /><br />And I think related to yours I ran across this today..<br />From Luke 9<br />"John answered, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not follow with us.” But Jesus said to him, “Do not stop him; for whoever is not against you is for you.”Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-3840749808015644872010-10-28T19:07:07.622-07:002010-10-28T19:07:07.622-07:00I came across this William Blake quote recently:
...I came across this William Blake quote recently:<br /><br />"I must create my own system, or be enslaved by another man's<br />I will not reason and compare, my business is to create".<br /><br />I am both greatly moved and horrified by this statement. It seems to be, at once, a beautiful declaration of creative freedom and also the death knell of Truth.<br /><br />Maybe I am not reading correctly. But it seems a natural outgrowth of Protestantism...Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06708393262849661076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-55286946029679988952010-10-28T17:28:16.410-07:002010-10-28T17:28:16.410-07:00Well, OK then, brother Black Hole. But you'll...Well, OK then, brother Black Hole. But you'll never know where you stand until you put your feet down. This is as good a place as any to do so. And the added benefit of having your feet on the ground is that you can start walking...<br /><br />KurtKurthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01750808052006968358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-50051203075993417592010-10-28T16:48:42.185-07:002010-10-28T16:48:42.185-07:00And thank you mushroom. I'll read that story ...And thank you mushroom. I'll read that story after work. BHblack holehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07366633817665791528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-56541452077566242882010-10-28T16:46:15.179-07:002010-10-28T16:46:15.179-07:00Kurt: they hate me. I cannot give them ammunition...Kurt: they hate me. I cannot give them ammunition to use against me. I don't feel safe here. However, I love it anyway. <br /><br />To Whit:<br /><br />Ben siezed Bernadette's slender white arm as she attempted to turn away. "You're going to do this." <br /><br />"No, I can't Ben, this is wrong. If my father found out..."<br /><br />"Hah. YOUR father. Look at what I found in YOUR father's study." He held up the round wafer. <br /><br />Bernadette gasped. No, no, it couldn't be! But then where DID father and mother go each Sunday? And what of the small room they forbade her to enter? And the wine she found one day, so sweet... <br /><br />"Today we follow them secretly to whence they go. And when we know the truth..."<br /><br />"Ben! You mustn't tell anyone! I beg you!"<br /><br />"I'll not tell, but you'll do my bidding. ALL of my bidding."<br /><br />"Oh Ben, no, think of my honor. It is all I have."<br /><br />"It is not YOUR honor you should be thinking about."<br /><br />Muffled voice from stage Right: "Halt there, sirrah, what business have you with my daughter?"<br /><br />Ben froze, crafty eyes darting from side to side...black holehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07366633817665791528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-28002520850550808602010-10-28T16:24:36.836-07:002010-10-28T16:24:36.836-07:00I actually do demand transparency from Black Hole....I actually do demand transparency from Black Hole. That's why he's always such a transparent schmendrick.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-6966462191502095732010-10-28T16:18:57.494-07:002010-10-28T16:18:57.494-07:00Here you go, BH. Not sure it fits all or any of yo...<a href="http://funglejungle.blogspot.com/2010/09/guardians.html" rel="nofollow">Here you go, BH.</a> Not sure it fits all or any of your criteria, but it's free. :)mushroomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07651027035577798096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-22333011259276661632010-10-28T16:18:07.282-07:002010-10-28T16:18:07.282-07:00Black Hole, I was going to attempt to respond to y...Black Hole, I was going to attempt to respond to your request but then I attempted to click on your blogger profile - no luck. One of the things that makes OC a safe place for me is transparency. We know who Bob is and where he is coming from. Many of the others here have taken the chance of showing something about themselves to the rest of us via their blogger profiles. I think it shows some level of trust to do so. As it is, while you have been a frequent poster here I have no idea who you are or where you are coming from. Take a chance. Open up a bit. I believe that this is a safe place to do so.<br /><br />KurtKurthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01750808052006968358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-3907750725206694652010-10-28T15:53:09.676-07:002010-10-28T15:53:09.676-07:00I'd like to hear a story of some kind. Some k...I'd like to hear a story of some kind. Some kind of conflict, surprise, betrayal, some taboo broken, some promise violated, some crime committed, some great deed accomplished, some love expressed, some delight experienced, some journey taken.<br /><br />And all in three paragraphs or less, and touching on some theme of this post.<br /><br />ASAP.black holehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07366633817665791528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-54095204643848625432010-10-28T14:22:20.672-07:002010-10-28T14:22:20.672-07:00Seminartime already?<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olPmEddZjHY" rel="nofollow">Seminartime already?</a>Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-71058360671376389042010-10-28T11:17:24.847-07:002010-10-28T11:17:24.847-07:00Heh - and here I was thinking I'd have to miss...Heh - and here I was thinking I'd have to miss out the next few days while a new grandpa meets his first biological grandchild.<br /><br />Of course, live-blogging the seminars would be entertaining for those playing along at home; I bet there'll be a metric load of fiskable material...juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-75673992031589842802010-10-28T11:05:02.756-07:002010-10-28T11:05:02.756-07:00BTW, no post for a few days. I have to attend a c...BTW, no post for a few days. I have to attend a couple of all-day continuing re-education seminars. <br /><br />Then again, perhaps I should live blog the seminars in order to cope with the tedium....Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-50935869948721684302010-10-28T11:01:20.964-07:002010-10-28T11:01:20.964-07:00Yes, we recently discussed how the Church might ha...Yes, we recently discussed how the Church might have dealt with the rebellion by embracing the Christian humanism of an Erasmus, but in a way overreacted in the other direction in order to accommodate the decidedly unworldly attitude of Protestants. I recently read that this contributed to the Galileo thingy, as the Church didn't want to appear too theologically liberal, thereby confirming the accusations of the Protestants.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-54047120446299556092010-10-28T10:51:57.792-07:002010-10-28T10:51:57.792-07:00Gagdad said "Schuon also blames Catholicism, ...Gagdad said "Schuon also blames Catholicism, especially its lurch toward humanism with the Renaissance."<br /><br />That's some blame I'm all too happy to appreciate.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1475028247329266982010-10-28T10:47:02.201-07:002010-10-28T10:47:02.201-07:00"And while science continued to develop from ..."And while science continued to develop from its Catholic roots in Protestant countries, this is no thanks to Luther, who "was an avowed enemy of reason" who "repudiated the tradition of natural law" -- not to mention the philosophy of Aristotle, whom he regarded as a "heathen and plague." If this intemperate man speaks for Jesus, how could such extremism not give a temperate man the Jesus Willies?"<br /><br />... Speaking as even more of "just a guy" than you, er, <i>Yep</i>.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-34027613687253679742010-10-28T10:03:59.569-07:002010-10-28T10:03:59.569-07:00In a certain way,
Tradition: Father
Freedom: S...In a certain way, <br /><br />Tradition: Father<br />Freedom: Son<br />Grace: HSGagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-71828453052291343822010-10-28T10:00:11.919-07:002010-10-28T10:00:11.919-07:00Any collective enterprise is hard to maintain; eve...Any collective enterprise is hard to maintain; even a nuclear family.<br /><br />That Christianity had only one major fracture is a testament to its durability.<br /><br />It is difficult, even, for an individual to keep an enterprise together, due to the warring factions within. Intellect clashes with emotions, which are not on the same page as the intuition, which is unable to harness the will, which is driven by subconscious motives not apparent to the other members of the being.<br /><br />Then the body chimes in that it is tired. Then the passions chime in and say they want excitement. And so on, and so forth.<br /><br />The government of the self by the soul is the ideal but the soul's voice is hard to hear sometimes over the stridence of the others.<br /><br />Multiply all of this in a group enterprise and you can see how daunting a task we have before us.<br /><br />Not to be pessimistic. It constantly gets more unified as we go. Slow and steady wins this race.black holehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07366633817665791528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-81235901045396629522010-10-28T09:50:46.566-07:002010-10-28T09:50:46.566-07:00It seems that our spiritual growth occurs within t...It seems that our spiritual growth occurs within the triple field of:<br /><br />Tradition: what others have experienced of God<br /><br />Freedom: what I have experienced of God, and<br /><br />Grace: what God has shared with me of Himself<br /><br />I would suggest that the Protestant Revolution began as an attempt to rebalance this triad, away from Tradition and towards Grace and Freedom. Where things ended up after that is a story of triumph and tragedy, light and shadow.<br /><br />As for myself, I thank God for tradition as exemplified by the Catholic Church which has been a testimony to His Love for over 2000 years. I thank God for freedom where I see His Love in my own life. And I thank God most of all for Grace, without which I would still be the walking dead man I was for so many years.<br /><br />And thank you, Bob, for making this space where we can all seek that amazing Grace together.<br /><br />KurtKurthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01750808052006968358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-62693717997854710402010-10-28T09:44:30.873-07:002010-10-28T09:44:30.873-07:00Yes, that's really what it comes down to.
***...Yes, that's really what it comes down to.<br /><br />***<br /><br />Back to Schmemann, this is a bit of a tangent but too lovely not to share (emphasis mine):<br /><br /><i>Lack of time compels me to limit myself to one example to show that the "dichotomies" mentioned above, which without any doubt have determined the deep metamorphosis of our liturgical piety, not only do not "connect" and relate one to another God, man, and the world, uniting them in one consistent world view, but on the contrary, abolish all "communications" and "correspondences" between them.<br /><br />Thus, for example, to bless water, making it "holy water," may have two entirely different meanings. It may mean, on the one hand, the transformation of something </i>profane<i>, and thus religiously void or neutral, into something </i>sacred<i>, in which case the meaning of "holy water" is precisely that it is no longer "mere" water, and is in fact opposed to it - as the sacred is to the profane. Here the act of blessing reveals nothing about water, and thus about matter or world, but on the contrary makes them irrelevant to the new function of water as "holy water." The sacred posits the profane as precisely profane, i.e. religiously meaningless.<br /><br />On the other hand, <b>the same act of blessing may mean the revelation of the true "nature" and "destiny" of water, and thus of the world</b> - it may be the epiphany and the fulfillment of their "sacramentality." <b>By being restored through the blessing to its proper function, the "holy water" is revealed as the true, full, adequate water, and matter becomes again means of communion with and knowledge of God.</b></i>juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-29312409426136980572010-10-28T09:35:47.630-07:002010-10-28T09:35:47.630-07:00I guess I just blame Man. The adjectives we apply...I guess I just blame Man. The adjectives we apply to him can be misleading.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.com