tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post2260778251486183591..comments2024-03-28T20:04:20.286-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Being, Knowing, and Sensible FootwearGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-91170472068074869692009-06-24T00:31:45.549-07:002009-06-24T00:31:45.549-07:00Thanks for taking the time to help, I really apprc...Thanks for taking the time to help, I really apprciate it.<br /><br /><a href="http://dealzfirst.com/Shoes/mason-shoes.htm" rel="nofollow">Mason Shoes</a>Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02902681246583519370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-12127886371904500152009-06-01T03:32:20.990-07:002009-06-01T03:32:20.990-07:00Excellent post, Bob!
And very good comments. :^)Excellent post, Bob!<br />And very good comments. :^)USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-28300976600581148792009-05-31T21:08:01.602-07:002009-05-31T21:08:01.602-07:00Oh, and for the record, I do not equate Adi Da wit...Oh, and for the record, I do not equate Adi Da with Jesus and the like. I just find the Da phenomenon facinating as I hold the intuition that there was and incredible bleding of Light and dark. (Disturbing stuff through those links.)<br /><br />"Aknowledge the darkness, but indulge in Goodness," is what I say.<br /><br />Cheers.Gazrielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-69989902076793282302009-05-31T19:37:48.767-07:002009-05-31T19:37:48.767-07:00Sweet!
Gazriel, it's been fun watching the conver...Sweet!<br /><br />Gazriel, it's been fun watching the conversation fly today. I missed out on virtually all of that stuff, but it's good to see the perspective of those who've been there.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-43419019874166336442009-05-31T19:25:35.586-07:002009-05-31T19:25:35.586-07:00I just want to say that I just scored a rare and o...I just want to say that I just scored a rare and out of print <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Easterly-Winds-Jack-Wilson/dp/B0002Y4TS8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1243822921&sr=1-1" REL="nofollow">Blue Note</A> CD for only ten bucks, when the next best price is $150, a price I wouldn't pay if I were a billionaire. I love the internet. I don't even know if I'll like the CD. Doesn't matter. It's the principle. Plus the thrill of the hunt.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-77365608483832296172009-05-31T18:41:14.565-07:002009-05-31T18:41:14.565-07:00Bob said, "If someone claims to be enlightened, bu...Bob said, "If someone claims to be enlightened, but virtue is not an intrinsic radiation from it, then I no longer count the realization for much."<br /><br />Point taken, but that doesn't account for the fact that realization could be happening in the face of we would normally percieve as a virtueless life-style. If a person is in a wonderland of ecstatic experiences of a transcendent nature, breathless in what they believe to be the Joy and Bliss of Divine Consciousness, then is it possible that Truth is manifesting the delusion? At that point is it still delusion? <br /><br />Which leads me to what Will said: "It is possible, I think, for a spiritually realized individual to pass through a den of iniquity and not at all be troubled or touched by the negativity therein."<br /><br />I guess what I am saying is that, theoretically, because one realizes their onesness even with that negativity that there is no threat from it regradless, a non-dual realization that transcends and includes even the darkness. You hear the stories of Christ hanging out with the troubled souls and all, so it makes me wonder.<br /><br />One last point on Adi Da. I saw a video of him in which he states that his normal experience of reality is what most people would term an altered state or transcendent experience. I have the intuition that because of this, combined with all of the adoration of his followers, he lost relational capacities and began taking himself waaayyy to seriously. This temporal relity is all just a great big Farce when seen from the intersection of Eternity and Infinity anyway, right? <br /><br />In typical Boomer fashion Da did every practice imaginable to 'attain enlightenment,' then thought that he could lead others to the promised land when he saw that the Light was ever-present, not respecting the plan of the Big Guy and his evolutionary unfolding. <br /><br />This is why my focus is upon simply feeling honored for my individual Grace of Awakening, while keeping the solid intention that I will be Graced once again by the ability to lead others to what is within, without, and beyond.<br /><br />Love you all very much, and I mean that. Many blessings to all of you on this spectacular evening.Gazrielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-22410804969822763682009-05-31T17:59:20.788-07:002009-05-31T17:59:20.788-07:00I think one other factor to consider is that Da an...I think one other factor to consider is that Da and the Bhags (and EST and Scientology and DePox) were/are basically Eastern in approach, ie., the emphasis is on *self*. Unlike the Christian dynamic, the Eastern emphasis on self means that virtue is going to take a backseat to demonstrable powers that establish one's enlightenment. <br /><br />I think there's plenty to learn from the Eastern approach, but I always try to be aware that the emphasis on self can easily lead to a dangerously imbalanced perspective.willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-64298447734719197502009-05-31T17:46:09.968-07:002009-05-31T17:46:09.968-07:00i too spent a bit too much time with 'great am...i too spent a bit too much time with 'great american hope' scorpion Da & his reading list---but consider it to've been a pretty decent survey of [the limitations of] eastern [mainly Indian-devotional] traditions... then 'arriving home' as i sense many here have in 'Eliot'ian fashion to Jesus esoteric Christianity as worthiest way of worshipgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02015936407999495181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-56130775561465241002009-05-31T17:31:20.882-07:002009-05-31T17:31:20.882-07:00It is possible, I think, for a spiritually realize...It is possible, I think, for a spiritually realized individual to pass through a den of iniquity and not at all be troubled or touched by the negativity therein. In fact, I think it's virtually mandatory at some point that the spiritual aspirant does so, even if the Theater of Negativity is within - maybe especially if it is within. Most extreme example of passing through a den of iniquity I can think of: Christ descending into hell prior to the Resurrection. <br /><br />But yes, overall, virtue must be manifested and manifested directly, if not overtly. And this means that dens of iniquity must be avoided, obviously, save for the times when one must harrow them. Anyone who clings to and partakes of the dens while claiming to having transcended them is not to be trusted, not with the really big stuff.willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-68110353699251133372009-05-31T16:44:27.242-07:002009-05-31T16:44:27.242-07:00They do allege that he was on a lot of drugs.
Vis...They do allege that he was on a lot of drugs.<br /><br />Vis a vis the titties, Jäger & Wendies, I'm with Schuon, who talks about virtue being consciousness of a plane of reality. If someone claims to be enlightened, but virtue is not an intrinsic radiation from it, then I no longer count the realization for much. As Schuon says, virtue is Truth prolonged into the horizontal, into the realm of action. In short, Truth without virtue is like Jäger with no titties. So to speak.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-33566915495683005752009-05-31T16:31:01.518-07:002009-05-31T16:31:01.518-07:00So, I took a nap and it seems missed out on a grea...So, I took a nap and it seems missed out on a great deal of action on a conversation I started. I guess that's what I get for being a slacker.<br /><br />There is a lot to respond to, so I will go off the top of the noggin at first, then go back through and re-examine statements and questions.<br /><br />So, one of the things that Gagdaddy said that really struck me in the identifcation chamber is that it is hard to take someone seriously who starts calling themself "the One From Above" and such non-sense. Even seen as an expression of language taken from Hinduism, which God-adizies folks left and right with the whole guru thing, Da took it a step further and called himself The Avatar, the One Who Has Unlocked The Potential For Stabalized God-Realization For The Entire Universe (he really loved capitalizing).<br /><br />In The Knee of Listening he relates the tale of visiting Swami Muktananda over in India. Apparently this was the true beginning of his own idea of being a guru, as, according to Mr. Jones (his name at the time), the Swami actually confirmed his experiences of transcendence, in which he recognized himself as the Blue Pearl that arises in Space, a high-suble/low casual realm identification. <br /><br />This validation stoked Da's confidence in himself as Master. But he kept experiencing states and having realizations that surpassed that which was described by the person he had chosen to be his guru. To me that is at the heart of what happened; when you present the idea that the guru is God, or at least God Realized, what happens when I objectively feel I have gone beyond his/her realm of experience? Well, hell, Buster, I must be God.<br /><br />Of course my belief on the matter is that no man is God, that God is so far beyond the understanding of any limited and finite perspective that to say that I am God is to directly take away the Miracle of seeing that God is neither here nor there, that this Mystery is ever-present and constntly re-newing itself, therefore will never be understood with finality. The most amazing thing of Awakening is knowng that I don't know jack.<br /><br />Anyway, another thing that I respected about Bubba Free John's little book was that at least he was honest in his pathos. Drugging, whoring, over-eating, all the while never losing faith that not only was there a Truth beyond the mind-derived sense of self, but that human beings can wondrously experience that. According to him, Fullness included even the darkness, which is maybe why Will likened him to Manson and the such.<br /><br />But ask yourself this question; could you do something of questionanble morals, then still realize and experience that you are in the Love of God? Could you go to the strip club, have some tittes slapped in your face for a couple of hours, get wasted on Jager,then eat some Wendy's on the way home, all the while knowing the Truth is by your side? Would you be able to pray or meditate when you got home without an over-whelming sense of shame and guilt? Would that even be possible? (The strip club scene I described above really isn't even that morally questionable, at least not from the standpoint of a feminized American 20 something male.)<br /><br />One last point on being fried by the Light. If that were the case, why would God keep revealing Himself to such a person? If Da had really gone completely off his rocker from the Force, why did he continue to express experiences of direct Realiztion up until he passed on? Was he just in delusion feeling Ecsatsy, Bliss, Freedom, Fullness, and Breathless Wonder? If that is the case, maybe his delusion was a Gift.Gazrielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-49548411284789260012009-05-31T16:13:44.015-07:002009-05-31T16:13:44.015-07:00Even in Thomas Merton's conversion autobio, Th...Even in Thomas Merton's conversion autobio, The Seven Story Mountain, I think you can discern a bit of romantic self-mythologizing and emotional orchestrating. And in his later years, Merton might have been a bit too gaga over Easternism, but still, he's worth reading, one can learn stuff. Of course, Merton never went bonkers in the manner of Da or the Bhags, he didn't live long enough to do so, even if he was on course to do so, which I don't believe he was. Catholic guy, you know. <br /><br />We do have to examine our teachers as best we can, keeping in mind that they're going to fall short in some way. The keepers among them admit that they fall short. But I think even in the ones who eventually fall spectacularly, there's stuff to be learned.willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-16821725246391611362009-05-31T16:11:45.391-07:002009-05-31T16:11:45.391-07:00The fate of Detroit isn’t a matter of economics. I...<i>The fate of Detroit isn’t a matter of economics. It’s a tragic romance, whose magic was killed by bureaucrats, bad taste and busybodies. P.J. O’Rourke on why Americans fell out of love with the automobile. <br /></i> <br /><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203771904574173401767415892.html" rel="nofollow">The End of the Affair</a>ximezenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-34335796140273259112009-05-31T15:47:27.699-07:002009-05-31T15:47:27.699-07:00“Multi-cultural specialists, ultra liberal zealots...<I>“Multi-cultural specialists, ultra liberal zealots, and college-tainted oppression liberators need not apply.”</I> <br /><br />a <A HREF="http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/05/oppression_liberators_need_not.html" REL="nofollow">job annoucement</A> from the website of one of America’s top inner-city public charter schools located in Oakland, California (no kidding)<br /><br />Bob, are you doing consultation moonlighting for them?ximezenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-9928990422328042752009-05-31T15:22:14.410-07:002009-05-31T15:22:14.410-07:00Comment placard:"When you're depressed, it takes a...Comment placard:"When you're depressed, it takes all day to get nothing done.. --The Sayings of Petey"<br /><br />Long low chuckle of recognition.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-17418390281134635692009-05-31T15:21:03.234-07:002009-05-31T15:21:03.234-07:00"For example, let's say that neurologists locate t..."For example, let's say that neurologists locate that part of the brain responsible for recognizing artistic beauty. Would this prove that the differences in beauty between, say, a Thomas Gainsborough and a Thomas Kinkade are not really real?"<br /><br />Don't they wish (and ghastly to think that, yes, they do wish that). Again, they'd only be attempting to negate the existence of beauty, altogether, substituting only an ability to excite a particular set of neuronal coordinates, for what we foolish ones insist on calling beautiful.<br /><br />IOW, again, they are not even wrong. There may be areas of the brain which typically serve different abilities, but then there are those cases where after a stroke or other injury, other parts are trained to perform those duties.<br /><br />It also seems to me that locating higher funcitons in particular glands or areas, which only they could serve, would not only be materialistic, but would demote the rest of the brain and thought to auxillary 1st stage junk, discarded and disconnected from the finer areas... which I don't think synch's with how we can each experience the progressive deepening of our own philosophic and spiritual thought.<br /><br />The higher functions and abilities become accessible to us, only as numerous prerequisite integrations and habituations of thought are made and established; in a similar manner as calculus becomes possible only after mastering lower level mathematics and algebraic understandings, or that Romantic Love becomes possible only after 'lower level' matters of friendship, consideration, decency and caring have become part of your mental and spiritual makeup. Of course brain scans will show activity in particular parts of the brain during particular thoughts and activities, but only because it has to occur somewhere... not because of, or only because of, a particular 'there'.<br /><br />As with the contrast of <A HREF="http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/art.asp?aid=189" REL="nofollow">Gainsborough</A> and <A HREF="http://www.thomaskinkade.com/magi/servlet/com.asucon.ebiz.catalog.web.tk.CatalogServlet" REL="nofollow">Kinkade</A>, someone watching a time elapsed development of Gainsborough's painting would see the overall painting come into view and effect through the use of brushstrokes and colors, but it isn't just the strokes, shapes and colors which reveal it. A more clearly drawn and illuminated use of color found in a Kinkade painting may display more shapes and colors, but fails to reveal a tenth of what the other does, because there are successively higher artistic sensibilities present in the Gainsborough, which the Kinkade never establishes or ascends to.<br /><br />That self protecting characteristic of Truth which preserves the higher reaches from those not yet capable of reaching it.<br /><br />The higher the 'function', the wider and deeper the range of previous traits and abilities that are both drawn upon, and contribute to, activating the possibility of that higher function - it doesn't appear, until they both exist and work together, in order to make the possibility of holographically bringing it into being, possible.<br /><br />It's my guess that the everyday features of the physical brain are sufficient for our highest development to take place upon, but it is our more extensive colonizing the trellis of its scaffolding (to smoothie up some metaphors) that is needed and which allows us to reach our higher possibilities... or not.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-26232590612772538232009-05-31T15:20:42.569-07:002009-05-31T15:20:42.569-07:00I guess I liked his autobiography best of all, the...I guess I liked his autobiography best of all, the <I>Knee of Listening</I> -- it's a good spiritual yarn -- but it's hard to trust someone who mythologizes himself so much, and then keeps changing the story in subsequent editions.... I think you're right, Will -- perhaps the ingression of spiritual energies fried his mainframe.<br /><br />To be perfectly honest, I did actually get a decidedly blissful transmission from him in November 1989, I believe it was, around the time of his 50th birthday... But it only lasted for a couple of hours....Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-422473848191794072009-05-31T15:14:09.951-07:002009-05-31T15:14:09.951-07:00I didn't read much of Da back in the days, but I d...I didn't read much of Da back in the days, but I did get something out of what I did read. I think he was on to it, at least to a degree, but no more than others I read or studied, those like Murshid Sam Lewis or even Edgar Cayce, and none of those guys ended up declaring himself President of the Universe. Well, temptations loom large the higher you go. If you fall, it's a long way down. <br /><br />Now I prefer mysticism that involves a jot more intellect and reason, and a lot less exotica, but I did get something out of those mystic stars of old, including Da.willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-24475996179935398572009-05-31T15:03:33.740-07:002009-05-31T15:03:33.740-07:00Oops, my bad.
Don't use www in the address.Oops, my bad.<br />Don't use <I>www</I> in the address.Dougmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08468871451814828157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-12381578661940466092009-05-31T15:00:07.792-07:002009-05-31T15:00:07.792-07:00Security problem at that site.
Somehow it redirect...Security problem at that site.<br />Somehow it redirects to the "Atomic Internet"<br /><br />Good book though.Dougmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08468871451814828157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-78494606077568770882009-05-31T14:53:29.486-07:002009-05-31T14:53:29.486-07:00OT-
I just finished reading "The Shack" by Wm. Pau...OT-<br />I just finished reading "The Shack" by Wm. Paul Young.<br />Last week-end my Mother handed it to me, told me that her Bible class was discussing it but she had to stop reading it somewhere in the middle. <br /><br />I'm heading over to the website now.<br /><br />www.theshackbook.com<br /><br />I recommend it, if only for the tears it can draw.<br /><br />wv=<I>mistely</I>Dougmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08468871451814828157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-65495108516279745602009-05-31T14:45:59.976-07:002009-05-31T14:45:59.976-07:00Re: Adi Da, a.k.a. Bubba Free John -
I take it t...Re: Adi Da, a.k.a. Bubba Free John - <br /><br />I take it that these guys have/had achieved some measure of spiritual realization - maybe through Kundalini-raising techniques - and then warped the Light via their own base desires, which they had never conquered. The warped Light would then inflame their base desires. This has to end in insanity. These guys, be they Hitler, Manson, Jim Jones, and who knows, maybe a current national president, would retain some kind of low-grade charisma, and yes, it would be "electrical" ; it would incite, raise passions, deceive, hypnotize. It certainly wouldn't calm and clarify, awaken, as would the presence of a real saint. <br /><br />Mysticism gone wrong goes really wrong. It becomes black magic.willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-79719817624004630072009-05-31T14:33:27.672-07:002009-05-31T14:33:27.672-07:00Thanks, Will - much food for thought.Thanks, Will - much food for thought.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-25372436909490481162009-05-31T14:20:45.599-07:002009-05-31T14:20:45.599-07:00BTW, Gazriel, I'm not trying to belittle your expe...BTW, Gazriel, I'm not trying to belittle your experience. There was a time that I too took him seriously back in the 1980s, because Ken Wilber spoke so highly of him, and I still had a lot of respect for Wilber back then. I read most of Da's major works, but found them boring, repetitive, and essentially void. Of course, back then I blamed myself, as I assumed he was the real deal. But now I would no more compare him to a Schuon or Balthasar or Eckhart than I would compare L. Ron Hubbard to Jesus.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-46643764078337362332009-05-31T14:11:43.147-07:002009-05-31T14:11:43.147-07:00Issues? You decide....<A HREF="http://www.adidaarchives.org/sex_violence_women.htm" REL="nofollow">Issues</A>? You decide....Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.com