tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post2075726339766485709..comments2024-03-28T20:04:20.286-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Wandering, Wondering, and Blundering into the MysteryGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-41591982386881530252007-10-29T10:59:00.000-07:002007-10-29T10:59:00.000-07:00I'd certainly hope not, Walmart Shopper. For Ortho...I'd certainly hope not, Walmart Shopper. For Orthodoxy begins with 'O'.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-62237763124137272402007-10-28T11:03:00.000-07:002007-10-28T11:03:00.000-07:00Anon - Your words betray you. Your condescending t...Anon - Your words betray you. Your condescending tone towards Bob, "...I keep thinking Bob is getting there, the focus is coming...all I can say is, Bob, you can do it!" and your contempt for Christian orthodoxy as inferior to your "latter-day" religion makes it obvious that you are a ... go ahead, fill in the blank. I won't hold it against you, but I won't hesitate to tell you you're wack.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1084323175106937552007-10-28T07:58:00.000-07:002007-10-28T07:58:00.000-07:00Steve,Welcome. I should have said that with your e...Steve,<BR/>Welcome. I should have said that with your earlier comment.<BR/><BR/>I agree with most of what you say. I had a similar experience in the early 90s with Covey’s book Seven Habits. I may not be here now, at this point, had I not been given that book by my dear uncle who passed away shortly after he gave it to me. It meant an awful lot to him when he gave it to me and I paid attention to that. With regard to reading previous to that time I was only interested in the classics, non-fiction adventure, etc.<BR/>That book I believe was the first one that made me look at working on me. But if there was any mention of spirituality in Covey’s book it didn’t interest me at the time.<BR/><BR/>So I agree with what you say about not rejecting those who are helped a little and maybe extent that to some of the things that come from blockheads that do the helping. They are bound to get some things right I suppose. But I haven’t read anything by Chopra or Robins and defer to Bob’s assessment.<BR/><BR/>The part I don’t agree with is that we may become like those Kosmoknotheads. We may look that way to them but there is no chance we will actually be like them. Those people have serious problems and no rules. I know you didn’t mean that exactly.<BR/><BR/>I agree with most as I said and add that anyone who is reading Bob’s book a third time in a thankful mode is a friend of mine.<BR/>RickRickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-25325032901016591742007-10-28T06:55:00.000-07:002007-10-28T06:55:00.000-07:00Anon, do you think Bob's going to pull the rug fro...Anon, do you think Bob's going to pull the rug from under those who are more orthodox in their approach?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-24738370493602279462007-10-28T06:37:00.000-07:002007-10-28T06:37:00.000-07:00Bob, I have done the same Campbellquest---book l...Bob,<BR/><BR/> I have done the same Campbellquest---book leads to book leads to book---and that's why I believe Ken Wilber was brilliant in his "everybody's right" formulation when it comes to well-intentioned, goodhearted writing. Some people only get you part of the way there. Like Freud and even like Anthony Robbins....and I know you think he's a malignant narcissist, but for so many people h has given them a partial boost...even he admits now that he's missing a lot of the vertical...he talks longingly to Ken Wilber about how to access it...but he helps people get part way up. In my opinion. Even Chopra does, too. Although I agree with you that he's a moral idiot when he speaks on political matters. He truly is. But much of his work has helped people without hope to see that there IS vertical adventure available to them. <BR/><BR/> Book to book to book up and up the ladder; these people, in my opinion (include Colin Wilson and others here) are not to be dismissed as the enemy, or as caricatures. Surely they are not as whole as you (no sarcasm) and you were made by God a few lessons after he made Wilber. So you are about six books up from Wilber! However, without Robbins, Branden, Wilson etc...the lower, shallower, less complete helpers I never would have made it. Never would have made it to you.<BR/><BR/> For if someone had given me One Cosmos ten years ago I'd never have gotten through half of it. Now I'm on my third time through thanking you each time. <BR/><BR/> I think we can go into KOS mode by demonizing the incomplete people. I like Wilber's formulation that they are "right" as far as they go. Robbins is for the lazy extended adolescent you talk about....Tony gets them focused, collected and ready to get into action and create a successful adult life. It's a start. It's GOOD as far as it goes. Even he knows it doesn't go nearly far enough because it's all about YOU. But it's like cranking up the Stones Start Me Up. <BR/> <BR/> Now: never stop. (You're a blessing.)Vinomorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02701718234344088581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-20053778873813067152007-10-28T05:42:00.000-07:002007-10-28T05:42:00.000-07:00NoMo, I paid close enough attention. Bob is spooki...NoMo, I paid close enough attention. Bob is spooking you, touching on the edge of something that concerns you and makes you uneasy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-18558122805253942102007-10-27T21:50:00.000-07:002007-10-27T21:50:00.000-07:00Coonified:If you really want to read some cutting ...Coonified:<BR/><BR/>If you really want to read some cutting edge stuff on attachment and the brain, check out <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805834591/103-0073253-5764633?ie=UTF8&tag=onecosmos-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=0805834591" REL="nofollow">Allan Schore</A> or his disciple <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572307404/103-0073253-5764633?ie=UTF8&tag=onecosmos-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=1572307404" REL="nofollow">Daniel Siegel</A>. It's bearing out all of the early work by pioneers such as Guntrip, Fairbairn, Winnicott, et al.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-59984935519714548812007-10-27T20:49:00.000-07:002007-10-27T20:49:00.000-07:00Sal said..."High maintenance kids, perhaps. Infant...Sal said...<BR/><BR/>"High maintenance kids, perhaps. Infants are that way for different reasons." <BR/><BR/>I was thinking more on the pre-verbal level and the empathetic love streams that are necessary for infants develope properly. And also, I wasn't being exclusive about it, as if there are no other reasons for things to go wrong; more of a categorical type of infant that in being identified with breath a priori would need empathy from the outside reflecting its own constitution, or else the psyche would kind of cave in on itself. Regression in other words.<BR/><BR/>I've just been studying Guntrips "schizoid phenomenia, object relations, and the self" lately, trying to figure myself out.<BR/><BR/>There's just no real obvious reason that I should have a deep structure problem like I do...unless the normal empathetic "life line" just wasn't enough to pull me into this world. It's as if I was born straight, but had to be bent wildly out of shape just fit; and now I'm returning to straightness. Elemental titans were a dream theme growing up, so I know it's that deep. They are conscious forces by the way.<BR/><BR/>Oh yea. Another thing that I've learned from Guntrip and deep deep psychology: The spiritual heights that we possess in this life are reciprical to how well infantile needs are met. So, the Christ and the perfect little baby Jesus are reflections of one another. As above so below. Most of you've already thought of this i'm sure. I think bob alludes to it in his book too. The infant is grown upon, like a foundation, rather than just not being there any more.<BR/><BR/>Thks for the feed back Sal!Dustinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03654779389556314268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-49116589576958474422007-10-27T19:08:00.000-07:002007-10-27T19:08:00.000-07:00Thanks Nomo;-)Thanks Nomo<BR/>;-)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-58834956239728267282007-10-27T18:22:00.000-07:002007-10-27T18:22:00.000-07:00So far neither real scores from either... note, if...So far neither real scores from either... note, if someone offers to come to your intellectual defense under the banner of Hume, as D'Souza did, to the effect of ("Hume proved that we can't scientifically prove that neurons and photons follow the same laws of physics here and in the next galaxy, so science is an act of faith"), abandon hope all ye who accept such aid.<BR/><BR/>Although Hitchens gave grudgingly that the only argument he can't fully denounce for Theism is the fact that we ARE here, and the universe supports us, so far it's sort of like two literalists flipping their coin and saying "SEE! It's a Heads Coin!" then "NO! See! It's a Tails Coin!".Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-33283961432405188882007-10-27T18:14:00.000-07:002007-10-27T18:14:00.000-07:00Holy Crap! TONGAN's in the Audience! Question to H...Holy Crap! TONGAN's in the Audience! Question to Hitchens "Before Christianity, Tonga, Fiji - eat people. What you offer different?"<BR/><BR/>The look on his face should have Hitchens fearing the wrong answer.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-58026412997018092602007-10-27T15:50:00.000-07:002007-10-27T15:50:00.000-07:00Van - I'd take some of your"pre-owned" brain cells...Van - I'd take some of your<BR/>"pre-owned" brain cells anyday - and be better off for it!NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-12671940962943281542007-10-27T13:34:00.000-07:002007-10-27T13:34:00.000-07:00"...the D'Souza vs Hitchens dust is on ..."dust UP..."...the D'Souza vs Hitchens dust is on ..."<BR/><BR/>dust UP... Dust UP!<BR/><BR/>See what I'm dealing with here?<BR/><BR/>Anyone want to buy some used brain cells cheap?Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-12549592558631933512007-10-27T13:32:00.000-07:002007-10-27T13:32:00.000-07:00What with a combined sleep hour total of 8hrs for ...What with a combined sleep hour total of 8hrs for the week and a substantial lack of slack, I won't try to coax my grey matter into making sense other than to say excellent posts this week (some great comments too), helped keep me going.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and Ximeze, the D'Souza vs Hitchens dust is on BookTV tonight at 7:00 est.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-60660148268066048692007-10-27T07:38:00.000-07:002007-10-27T07:38:00.000-07:00Anon 8:57PM - It would be worth your while to pay ...Anon 8:57PM - It would be worth your while to pay closer attention.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-35708311178549331792007-10-27T06:16:00.000-07:002007-10-27T06:16:00.000-07:00Do you think that pneumatics are high maintainence...<I>Do you think that pneumatics are high maintainence babies, since they're indentified "a priori with spiritual substance," but yet grown within an environment that is not?</I><BR/><BR/>coonified,<BR/><BR/>High maintenance kids, perhaps. Infants are that way for different reasons. Children because they're acting on the personality they're born with. I was an easy, sunny baby but an odd, quirky kid. My eldest was the same way.<BR/><BR/>I would think, like most things, it depends. My own parents reactions were "We love you dearly, but we don't understand why you're not like everyone else and we worry about you. What will become of you? How are you going to get along in the world?"<BR/><BR/>A lot of well-intentioned energy was spent trying to teach me to conform. It worked up to a point.<BR/>As they themselves aged- and were no longer responsible for all of us- they experienced that self-exam and freeing up of the real self Bob and others talk about.<BR/><BR/>Different parents- the kind who can't accept variation in any form and crush it out brutally- different outcome.Salhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13201226644704622876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-39437754078609165572007-10-26T23:05:00.000-07:002007-10-26T23:05:00.000-07:00there are more racoons than you know!there are more racoons than you know!Vinomorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02701718234344088581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-10056071715424292822007-10-26T21:25:00.000-07:002007-10-26T21:25:00.000-07:00Just dropped in to the Bobservatory for the first ...Just dropped in to the Bobservatory for the first time while procrastinating from doing my schoolwork. ;-) Fascinating post. I'll have to bring this up at dinner sometime with the kids and let my husband run with it! <BR/><BR/>My mind is numb from too much studying, if that is possible.Tea N. Crumpethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16399889311375477109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-10538593175557100432007-10-26T21:20:00.000-07:002007-10-26T21:20:00.000-07:00“My feeling now is that I had a perfect life: what...“My feeling now is that I had a perfect life: what I needed came along just when I needed it.”<BR/><BR/>and<BR/><BR/>“I think I was probably a born "pneumatic," as Schuon calls it (although Petey might take issue with this). I can't think of any better explanation.”<BR/><BR/>Tomberg has this to say. Maybe it applies:<BR/><BR/>“…the gradual conversion that happens almost naturally in the course of advancing age…a certain transformation of the past takes place…it no longer appears merely as a factual memory…but idealized…what was haphazard, superficial, and insignificant is greatly outshone by the essential, deeper, and more meaningful aspects of life’s destiny, human kindness and wisdom…an aged person engaged in devotedly reevaluating the past in the light of heavenly illumination…”<BR/><BR/>and<BR/><BR/>“…the same light; the child still has his eyes full of heavenly light…with a future-oriented impulse.”Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-40357052756306604312007-10-26T21:17:00.000-07:002007-10-26T21:17:00.000-07:00An on,Maybe you missed the focus in between the of...An on,<BR/>Maybe you missed the focus in between the off an on.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1457694994344415672007-10-26T20:57:00.000-07:002007-10-26T20:57:00.000-07:00Nomo, I have read this blog off and on and I keep ...Nomo, I have read this blog off and on and I keep thinking Bob is getting there, the focus is coming. Just as he does I see a few people, you perhaps, getting a bit queasy about what he is saying. <BR/><BR/>All I can say is, Bob, you can do it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-17318086331386609022007-10-26T20:07:00.000-07:002007-10-26T20:07:00.000-07:00Walt,Schuon’s writing is just that. Precision.Walt,<BR/>Schuon’s writing is just that. Precision.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-15878961004289163312007-10-26T15:18:00.000-07:002007-10-26T15:18:00.000-07:00"Mystery is as it were the inner infinity of certi..."Mystery is as it were the inner infinity of certitude, the latter could never exhaust the former." <BR/><BR/>Which is good news indeed, because if Mystery...if God, was finite, then how boring and pointless life would be.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-31009793902906743082007-10-26T14:48:00.000-07:002007-10-26T14:48:00.000-07:00"Pretty soon you're embarked on a wild nous chase,..."Pretty soon you're embarked on a wild nous chase, not for any "exterior" purpose, but for the purpose of trying to articulate the idiom of your own soul."<BR/><BR/>Nothin' compares to the heavenly taste of the wild nous!<BR/>I've been gnowing on wild nouses all mornin' and I gotta say it's much better than lickin' toads.<BR/>More than a feeling, as I heard someone say.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-46199104067313187732007-10-26T14:42:00.000-07:002007-10-26T14:42:00.000-07:00"This is because when I wrote it, I wasn't sure if..."This is because when I wrote it, I wasn't sure if there were any other Raccoons out there -- you know, freevangelical pundamentalists, vertical theocons, and neotraditional cosmonauts."<BR/><BR/>Ha ha! Gack! My monitor is wearing java and my wife thinks I've lost it. Which I have, in a sense.<BR/>I told her "you had to be there."<BR/><BR/>It's like tryin' to explain why a great cOmedian is funny. If you're not in the audience it's difficult to realize second-hand. :^)USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.com