tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post1613315502576698306..comments2024-03-27T11:16:36.951-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: On Evolving All the Way Down and InGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-83695876907073238862009-09-27T17:36:20.267-07:002009-09-27T17:36:20.267-07:00Intellect that is detached from the divine plane e...Intellect that is detached from the divine plane easily descends into childish anger, hysteria, or sentimentality. This is why the left "fell in love" with Obama, as they were merely duped by their own unredeemed vital mind."<br /><br />Plus they see a big boob and not bein' weened...well, let's just say I ain't gonna draw a picture for ya.Skullynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-36632758103305421332009-09-27T17:30:58.344-07:002009-09-27T17:30:58.344-07:00Ricky Raccoon said...
I'm trying to work Burt...Ricky Raccoon said... <br />I'm trying to work Burt Reynolds into this...<br />Damn allergy meds. This should easy..<br /><br /><br />It's all in the Deliverance, Buddy. :^)USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-72237241282867527752009-09-27T17:28:29.913-07:002009-09-27T17:28:29.913-07:00Lord, give me sobriety. But not yet.Lord, give me sobriety. But not yet.Cousin Dupreenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-20362740422772463212009-09-27T17:19:03.628-07:002009-09-27T17:19:03.628-07:00It's one thing to have one of those (?!) momen...It's one thing to have one of those (?!) moments, another thing entirely for it to saturate your psychic substance and lead to a genuine and lasting transformation. In fact, Sri Aurobindo felt that it was necessary for the divine descent to literally penetrate all the way "down" to the cells, which are -- because they are the closest to the border of the material inconscient, or the outer edge of the divine involution -- the most resistant to the descent."<br /><br />IOW's, the Divine Descent oughtta penetrate our very DNAye! :^)USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-23376984819457543392009-09-27T16:59:41.391-07:002009-09-27T16:59:41.391-07:00"O Holy Spirit, descend plentifully into my h..."O Holy Spirit, descend plentifully into my heart. Enlighten the dark corners of this neglected dwelling and scatter there Thy cheerful beams. --"<br />Augustine<br /><br /><br />O Holy Spirit, descend plentifully into my heart. Enlighten the dark corners of this neglected ship and scatter there Thy cheerful Jim Beams. --Skully<br /><br />This is to show (clearly!) the main difference between St. Augustine and Skully.<br /><br />Just in case you were wondering.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-6143380806231551272009-09-27T11:17:28.802-07:002009-09-27T11:17:28.802-07:00Julie and Van,
Thanks again, for your considerate ...Julie and Van,<br />Thanks again, for your considerate responses. When I examine the spectrum of Christian interpretations of humility, that I’ve read and been exposed to, I much prefer yours.Anonymous_1https://www.blogger.com/profile/02342652169935228237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1617057377036539282009-09-26T11:27:08.648-07:002009-09-26T11:27:08.648-07:00And to finish the point, it's tough to feel th...And to finish the point, it's tough to feel that kind of praise arising from within our own souls if we're not humble enough to get out of our own way and let it happen. Again, not for god. For us.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-48097320147167111452009-09-26T11:23:47.375-07:002009-09-26T11:23:47.375-07:00What Van said™, plus I'd like to add a couple ...What Van said™, plus I'd like to add a couple more observations.<br /><br /><i>It projects “petty” attributes to the Divine, as though this Entity demands prostration and abasement in the form of reverential worship.</i> <br /><br />I once saw it that way, as well. But true humility is not about abasing oneself before the Absolute because the Absolute has some kind of petty need for it; indeed, were that the case I'd probably stick with atheism. <br /><br />No, what this is about is something akin to the feeling one gets when seeing a natural wonder - the Grand Canyon at sunrise, for instance. Something opens within the self, and the sense of awe and wonder and majesty make the soul <i>want</i> to sing in praise - not to assuage god's need for adulation, but rather to lift our own selves higher in a kind of resonance with that immense, dwarfing, spectacular beauty.<br /><br />Therein lies the key: humility is seeing oneself with <i>clarity</i>; in fact, there is false humility which is also a form of pride, the kind of holier-than-thou mentality we've all encountered here and there. <br /><br />Praise and worship - in the true sense - is not for god, but for man, because it elevates the spirit and lets that light shine brighter. When you smile at someone, they usually respond in kind, right? All the more so when you respond in such a way to the Absolute. Imagine smiling at god, then god smiling back. Next thing you know you're in the midst of exultation with tears streaming down your face, thinking of not much besides "holy, holy, holy..." or just (!?).<br />That's what praise is about. Not for god. For us.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-26858252377566418322009-09-26T11:02:28.006-07:002009-09-26T11:02:28.006-07:00Anonymous_1 said "I’ve always considered this...Anonymous_1 said "I’ve always considered this interpretation of Christianity to be misguided. It projects “petty” attributes to the Divine, as though this Entity demands prostration and abasement in the form of reverential worship"<br /><br />Agreed. Few here will be surprised to hear (again) that, at least on the surface, I don't buy the 'humility is a virtue' or that 'Pride goeth before a fall'... but there's a couple caveats that need to be ingrained in that, and they both involve Truth, and the recognition of it, and when properly practiced and drawn back out to a surface level appearance, they can easily be described as 'Humility is a virtue' and 'Pride goeth before a fall'.<br /><br />I won't attempt to recreate a tome here, but in my view, humility is NOT a virtue, it is the <i>result</i> of virtue. Similarly, Pride is a proper response felt from practicing virtuous actions. <i>False Pride</i> is what I think is typically misidentified as Pride, and it definitely goes before a fall, in fact, it ensures the fall, in that it attempts to paste pretentions over what is real. It is the "<i>I am SOOO wonderful, all should acknowledge my wonderfulness at all times, and I cannot fail... if it appears that I didn't succeed, it is only because of the failures of one of my underlings!</i> ", and smacks of narcissism through and through.<br /><br />Recognizing reality to be as it is, despite your wishes to the contrary, recognizing that 'Nature to be commanded, must be obeyed', and allowing no neurotic feelings of frustration over that, but instead recognizing, understanding, working with, what is true, produces works (and attitudes, personalities) that are harmonious with what is Good, Beautiful and True.<br /><br />Presuming to put yourself, your preferences prior to, and over what is true, to "Think, therefore I am", is to breed false pride, braggarts and bullies puffed up on their own importance which may be demonstrated either in the typical belligerent manner, or in the pretended humility (which I think Augustine pointed out?) of "Look how threadbare my robes are! I am SOOO much more humble than you!", and is typical of those who generate "Jesus Willies" wherever they go.<br /><br />The person who respects what is real and true, who master themselves into respecting the Natural Laws, they are the folk who quietly go about producing small and great wonders, feel joy at what has been accomplished, knowing their joy in those accomplishments follows only from their partnership with what is real and true and feels neither reduced by such knowledge, nor superior, because of it.<br /><br />These are usually highly competent and knowledgeable people, soft spoken and taken on appearance as being 'humble', but that humility was not something they deliberately practiced, it results from what they understand must be practiced, and consciously practicing it - respect for what is real and true, and because of that they take pride in what they do, because what they do respects reality, and would be appalled at the thought of compromising their integrity.<br /><br />Paradoxically, they appear humble, because they take great pride in what they do, why, and how they do it, in everything they do.<br /><br />The faux prideful, puff themselves up, usually in a hugely unbalanced emphasis on a single skill or trait that has brought them some measure of recognition and fame, and pretend to skills and abilities and worthiness in other areas which there is no basis in reality for - and their extreme unbalance will eventually topple them.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-50066155645635863592009-09-26T10:01:05.042-07:002009-09-26T10:01:05.042-07:00Julie and Van,
Thanks for your thoughtful replies....Julie and Van,<br />Thanks for your thoughtful replies. The topics of humility and Truth, which you’ve touched upon, require tomes that would fill the shelves of the Tower of Babel. So, to scratch the surface…<br /><br /><b>Humility – My First Opinion</b><br />The Christian tradition considers humility a virtue, a technique to temper and moderate the sin of pride, where pride is elevating oneself to “the equal of the Absolute or Divine”. I’ve always considered this interpretation of Christianity to be misguided. It projects “petty” attributes to the Divine, as though this Entity demands prostration and abasement in the form of reverential worship. The words and deeds of Christ teach a more complex lesson, a message that transcends the Old Testament’s appeal for submission, they teach the significance of empathy.Anonymous_1https://www.blogger.com/profile/02342652169935228237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-20340957798369843512009-09-26T01:25:52.322-07:002009-09-26T01:25:52.322-07:00Yes, perhaps the day to day politics are to those ...Yes, perhaps the day to day politics are to those "further along the path" as a shadow play on a surface, and they can see the far more "concrete" (or real) things that cast these shadows. And perhaps they don't really react to what is happening right now, but to what will be happening deep into the future. Changing what happens today would take an immense energy, but the further ahead you see, the more it is within your power to change with a small push at precisely the right time and the right place.Magnus Itlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18445902788427523461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-16460394841275959182009-09-25T21:31:25.988-07:002009-09-25T21:31:25.988-07:00I'll wade into the deep water here. One of the...I'll wade into the deep water here. One of the things I enjoy is the way the posts shift from (what seem to me) abstract esoteric writing to blunt prosaic examples. Now maybe this could be considered bad form. But thinking about it now, it feels like a way to demonstrate the vertical dimension.<br /><br />A caveats. I'm not really sure if "abstract" above applies. Perhaps the concepts and discussion are very concrete to those further along the path.<br /><br />wv: aploykatzxyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02271736861541089213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-58342119427714738222009-09-25T21:23:17.479-07:002009-09-25T21:23:17.479-07:00From the second to last 'graph:
"If the l...From the second to last 'graph:<br />"If the left had their way, they would eliminate redemptive suffering from the cosmos."<br /><br />So suffering wouldn't be redemptive.<br />Which is just simply awful.katzxyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02271736861541089213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-67125045392661232432009-09-25T17:07:49.605-07:002009-09-25T17:07:49.605-07:00And... sometimes, what to not look back on in the ...And... sometimes, what to not look back on in the flight to other civilization, a la Lot and family. Or, "let the dead bury their dead". Sometimes things have to run through those ringers to make sure it's not one of those types of things. But I don't think politics and economics are worthless, for so many reasons. And even studying the really murky murk helps in understanding more intricately the awesomeness and power of Grace. And other purposes. <br /><br />wv: jolluffs<br /><br />I keep thinking of something like marshmallow fluff made out of jolly (jolliness).Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-15808226618621143792009-09-25T16:56:03.021-07:002009-09-25T16:56:03.021-07:00Anna: "I see, said the blind man--as he pick...Anna: "I see, said the blind man--as he picked up his hammer and saw."<br /><br />To try to parse what is significant in life can be dicey, as you describe.<br /><br />It is a source of anxiety, the constant question in the back of the mind:<br /><br />"What is the best use of my time, right now?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-5245850492607051892009-09-25T15:52:22.353-07:002009-09-25T15:52:22.353-07:00Anon 9:23 @ 3:03 Part II [Kind of an "in othe...Anon 9:23 @ 3:03 Part II [Kind of an "in other words".]<br /><br />So in one state of mind things that seemed interesting and important seem unnecessary, foolish, and ridiculous. "I will only go for that which is awesome and never again meddle with Marxist hogwash" was the general impulse while suspended above the river. But that didn't feel right either. "Why was I so intent on solving the inanity of Marxist jargon?" "Why did decimating Keynes impel me so?" I truly didn't know in that moment. Anyway. So a post spanning both topics appealed.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-34756341125567750472009-09-25T15:09:53.803-07:002009-09-25T15:09:53.803-07:00I think Anon is Ray.
Jus kidding!I think Anon is Ray.<br /><br /><i>Jus kidding!</i>Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-23712793744399394982009-09-25T15:09:37.236-07:002009-09-25T15:09:37.236-07:00Anon 9:23
Actually my point was close to that but...Anon 9:23<br /><br />Actually my point was close to that but it was probably hard to find amidst all those parentheses. My point was that I didn't know what the heck to do with both interests. I chastised myself in the midst of the upper when I remembered hashing out politics and the here and now. I was ashamed. But the post helped me understand why I had both, how to organize, if you will. It wasn't stream of consciousness (I don't think), it was probably just a little messy. :)Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-30176980711932143672009-09-25T15:03:17.574-07:002009-09-25T15:03:17.574-07:00I am anonymous 9:23, the literary critic.
Anna, I...I am anonymous 9:23, the literary critic.<br /><br />Anna, I enjoyed your parentheses-laced comment although a bit hard to pick out the intent or overall message of the thing. It was flow-of-consciousness.<br /><br />What I take you to be saying is that the jarring transition in Godwins's post was an echo of real life jarring juxtopositions, of which there are daily examples--and I do concede that the post therefore in a way imitated life.<br /><br />However I also must respect the credo of the critic which is to look for balance and harmony in a product of art--that is, not real life but consciously molded life.<br /><br />Therefore I leveled the charge that the post was flawed, as with better control it could have more closely approached perfection.<br /><br />However, Godwin never claimed to be under control. That should be considered.<br /><br />And from a different point of view, rawness and unpredictability could be seen as a virtue as well...<br /><br />It's a gray area. <br /><br />Someone must criticize things, or they don't recieve the respect due them. To be criticized thoughtfully bestows honor on the artist. How else can he/she feel understood?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-88878581518516542172009-09-25T15:01:41.712-07:002009-09-25T15:01:41.712-07:00Mushroom:
When Magnus speaks, people listen.Mushroom:<br /><br />When Magnus speaks, people listen.Peteynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-70637067532330249292009-09-25T14:41:57.155-07:002009-09-25T14:41:57.155-07:00Anonymous 9:23 -
I haven't read all the comme...Anonymous 9:23 -<br /><br />I haven't read all the comments yet but just reached your second and wanted to say what struck me. This week we were discussing politics, economics, the here and now, then, abruptly spiritual matters (no un-pun intended), and I found myself (ironically each time I went over a bridge during my work commute) trying (feeling the need actually, even also on a level of obligation) to to weave the two, to find some sort of bridge, to see how they are related. <br /><br />This shift happens in life a lot too when I'm thinking one (+) kind of thing, and then have to encounter a person I regularly run into who speaks the leftist speak script. Jarring, but sometimes a proper unity (ugh for lack of better word) of the two interests is nice. Like, why I am interested in refuting his hollow weird arguments and political opinions when they come up, and also in all that is worthwhile spiritually (the good stuff). The thing is, in light of the latter, in that midst, what happens is I feel lame for even caring to argue with him or anyone with those notions. Anyway, this is something that occurred to me. So I thought a double whammy post was apt and helpful.<br /><br />Most parentheticals of this commentator for '09 yet. I was in a parentheses mood.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-31848268188409389702009-09-25T14:29:50.628-07:002009-09-25T14:29:50.628-07:00I was going to comment, but right off the bat in #...I was going to comment, but right off the bat in #1, Magnus expressed my thoughts far better than I could have.mushroomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07651027035577798096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-62619466439552639782009-09-25T13:02:22.451-07:002009-09-25T13:02:22.451-07:00In the bunker with Queeg, who recently accused Gle...In the bunker with <a href="http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/09/lizard-lounge-frogger-gate.html" rel="nofollow">Queeg</a>, who recently accused Glenn Beck of killing a frog! on TV.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-18850264756685867722009-09-25T12:26:51.011-07:002009-09-25T12:26:51.011-07:00Anonymous 1, I would humbly submit a couple of int...Anonymous 1, I would humbly submit a couple of interpretations here. The first, that maybe you feel discomfort because the pride issue is something you need to wrestle with. I say that not to cast aspersions, but simply because it is one of the most common problems in spirituality, and everybody struggles with it at some point or other, usually over and over again. In fact, if you ever stop struggling with it, you may have a problem. Lord knows I have; my foray into atheism was as much because I don't like the idea of "submitting" to anyone or anything as because I really believed there was no god.<br /><br />The second, perhaps, is that you misunderstand the use of pride in this context? Schuon has some good quotes on the subject:<br /><br />"Humility is a state of emptiness in which our thoughts and actions appear foreign to us, so that we judge them as we judge the thoughts and actions of others.<br /><br />Pride is a blind plenitude that monopolizes everything."<br /><br />"Pride is to treat the human as the Divine, and conversely; it is therefore to be ignorant of both the one and the other."<br /><br />In a nutshell, pride is when one elevates oneself to that which one is not. Humility, on the other hand, is seeing oneself <i>with clarity</i> - not just faults but the good parts, too - and realizing that one is not in any way, shape or form the equal of the Absolute. There's no shame in that. But properly grasped, the relationship between the self and the Absolute can't not inspire humility, awe and fear, along with love and adoration.<br /><br />As to "petty emotions," they truly are a barrier to truth. This does not disparage emotions grounded in truth. Think of the child who tries to control a given situation by throwing tantrums, holding his breath, or putting his fingers in his ears and shrieking "I don't wanna!" The emotions completely dominate the situation and are designed to keep reality from intruding upon whatever pleasure (or absence of pain) the child is trying to preserve.<br /><br />As adults, internally, we do the same thing. The Real knocks, and we plug our ears, turn away, announce proudly that we don't like god's version of reality, etc. We distract ourselves with petty pleasures and entertainments, because we cannot conceive of the depth which we are missing. Depending on what we know of god, we may see faith as a state of lacking and bootlicking. And seeing only that, we miss out on the whole existentialada. Again, this is something that most everyone must face, repeatedly, especially when things get difficult.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-25156898498655979652009-09-25T12:13:05.923-07:002009-09-25T12:13:05.923-07:00Anonymous_1, I think you're confusing 'sci...Anonymous_1, I think you're confusing 'scientistic' and 'scientific'. In,<br /><br />"...of those scientistic types who pretend that they are just too intellectually humble to accept religion are actually far too proud."<br /><br />Speaking for myself here, but I think that if substituted 'Truth' for 'religion', it'd still be stating the same message. The scientistic are those who say 'There is no such thing as 'Truth' or principles, only disintegrated, separate, relative truths that may be true today, but not necessarily true tomorrow, we'll just have to check and see if they still 'work for us'.<br /><br />The Scientific, are those who realize that what is True, trumps what they'd like to be true. Unlike, say... the French of Voltaire's time who actually fined and imprisoned people for believing or possessing the physics of Issac Newton - not on religious grounds, but on the grounds of French vs English.<br /><br />If you respect Truth, you're here, in spirit, if not word.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.com