tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post114597654272938419..comments2024-03-18T21:33:35.309-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Beauty's in the Eye of the Beer HolderGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1165856780543106872006-12-11T09:06:00.000-08:002006-12-11T09:06:00.000-08:00liquidlifehacker wrote: "The point is though that ...liquidlifehacker wrote: "The point is though that Islam contradicts both since it perverts the truth. The koran even teaches to not befriend the people of the book (Jews and Christians)"<BR/><BR/>I think even on an exoteric level the last comment is off base.<BR/><BR/>The most obvious proof is the fact that it is well established that jewish and christian women can marry muslim men. So if you can have this most intimate bond with non-Muslims, live with them, have them be a part of your family, raising your children it is really silly to think that Islam prohibits Muslims from being friends with non-Muslims.<BR/><BR/> The word for "friend" used in the often-misquoted passage from the Quran is more a kind of asymmetrical term meaning a kind of protector or ally. So the idea is that Muslims shouldn't put themselves in a certain kind of uneven dependant relationship.<BR/><BR/>In terms of the first bit, a big part of Schuon's perspective is the difference between exoteric and esoteric levels. So yes, if you take the religious statements at their most basic literal levels then the religions disagree. But if you look at the terms differently it might be possible to reconcile them. For example, even though they both have very different versions of what happened on Good Friday, Islam and Christianity both agree that in some sense death did not get the last word.Abdul-Halim V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03811018180731403335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1165856158350975662006-12-11T08:55:00.000-08:002006-12-11T08:55:00.000-08:00interesting post.. I'm also interested in some of ...interesting post.. I'm also interested in some of Schuon's ideas and have tried to blog about them from time to time but you obviously have been doing more "devouring" and internalizing of his perspective than I. I like Perennialism in the sense that it provides an interesting framework with which to look at religious differences. (the great religions share a great deal at an esoteric level. while their exoteric differences are basically just different packaging for different civilizations.)<BR/><BR/>Although I would definitely want to temper some of the aristocratic and anti-modern tendancies. I am certainly disturbed by how some Traditionalists seem to veer off into Fascism. Also I wonder about how to view the sex stuff that Schuon got into later in life.Abdul-Halim V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03811018180731403335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146370075329756732006-04-29T21:07:00.000-07:002006-04-29T21:07:00.000-07:00"I certainly do agree with Bob's assessment of kee..."I certainly do agree with Bob's assessment of keeping one's body in a vertical state of ascension. In fact, since I have been involved in discussions here, I have been creating my own workshop that will help people move with experiential integration."<BR/><BR/>Lisa - <BR/><BR/>i have a friend who <BR/>gets some benefits from his Alexander trainer/training.<BR/><BR/>it's likely related to Pilates somehow...if it's not something you're familiar with you may want to investigate.<BR/><BR/>the quote exerpt above is Alexander to a "T".gumshoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10567181585153569751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146109062233455022006-04-26T20:37:00.000-07:002006-04-26T20:37:00.000-07:00Apostacy means "the forsaking of the faith". In t...Apostacy means "the forsaking of the faith". In the Bible, it is written that Christ will not return to Earth until after an event called the "Great Apostacy" takes place (there are other things that will also take place as well). Apostacy isn't anything new, there were people whom Paul wrote about in the New Testament who "loved this present world" more then Christ. There are also some people who are said to have been "christian" and convert to other religions. This is in effect apostacy. Then there are those people who really want to believe all religions are really talking about the same God. Typically people who want to contend this have not read the Bible (for example) and the claim Christ made about Himself. They also haven't read the teachings of Mohammad (the so-called prophet) of Islam either, because had they done so, they would have soon discovered that the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of Islam simply isn't the same person. Then there are the people who somehow and I hate to say this, but niavely think they can find some commonality between religions and this is somehow the "truth concerning God". To do so one must deliberately ignore the glaring contradictions. This is in effect intellectual and spiritual suicide. It's also intellectually dishonest. This is why I, for myself, have to reject the teachings and writings of a person who would do this.90https://www.blogger.com/profile/04196503425462780291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146080221654968912006-04-26T12:37:00.000-07:002006-04-26T12:37:00.000-07:00Liquid, speaking for myself, your perspective is e...Liquid, speaking for myself, your perspective is <I>especially</I> welcome precisely because you're the only regular here who comes at this from a completely different angle from my own.<BR/><BR/>Please don't make a hasty decision based on one unpleasant exchange.<BR/><BR/>While we're dealing in blunt truth, here's are my thoughts (and I don't mean anything here as an attack on anyone, like I said, I value everyone here, and have no interest in personal attacks. Also, my words apply solely to my fellow commenters - not Bob). <BR/><BR/>Two years ago, on the day I received the seeds of opportunity that I'm still learning to sow, I was struck by a bumper sticker that said (approximately):<BR/><BR/>"Swallow your pride, forget your arrogance, remember your death"<BR/><BR/>Don't know where's its from, and at the time I only noted it because the idea of such a heavy-handed bumper sticker amused me.<BR/><BR/>But those words often bubble up at times when my ego tries to plunder the fruits of my spirit.<BR/><BR/>There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance, and as we seek and discover truth it is perhaps the most difficult line to tread. I've mostly stood back from the occasional squabbling here, but there are times when I think sincere people have been dismissed and driven away, but I either didn't see it as my place, or just didn't feel like getting involved. I set up my own discussion area instead, hoping some would come over there.<BR/><BR/>But I don't want to see one of the core members of this group driven off for not following the 'party line.' Once that happens this place (not the blog, but the comment section as a community of truth-seekers) is just another useless stretch of sprawl on the internet.<BR/><BR/>If we have learned anything here, it is that exploration of the vertical is a very personal process, and all of our 'knowledge' of it, no matter how rich our experience or strong our faith, is still merely an <I>reflection</I> of the unknown - and our interpretation of that reflection is <I>always</I> subject to the corruptible whims of the ego.<BR/><BR/>If this is to be a useful gathering of “men [and women] of ascending tendency” then we must constantly guard against the temptations of the ego - and perhaps come to an understanding such that we can bluntly correct each other, but on <I>attitude</I>, not differences of opinion. I am under the assumption that we are all here to learn and share thoughts and experiences. Sincere disagreements and different perspectives make it interesting. I come here first to read Bob's posts and consider them for myself, after that I look forward to intelligent discussion, shared experiences, questions, and hopefully civil disagreement. I <I>don't</I> come here to be part of a bickering Cult of Bob - I've been there and done that (I lurked around the cult of Ayn Rand in college - I was privy to a closed mentality that rots the mind...in fact, much of my insight into today's leftists is shaped by that experience). <BR/><BR/>I learn something from <I>everyone</I> who comes through here - even those who disagree. Personally, I wish we would all be a bit more open to civil disagreement (not trolls, mind you), but, hey, I don't run the place, and Bob shouldn't be expected to play kindergarten cop.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, if things do disintegrate here, anyone who's interested is welcome to engage in a civil discussion over at my place. As it's purpose is specifically for discussion, I will personally ensure that the tone remains focused on ideas.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146067267125396732006-04-26T09:01:00.000-07:002006-04-26T09:01:00.000-07:00JWM has it exactly right.There's a thinly disguise...JWM has it exactly right.<BR/><BR/>There's a thinly disguised allegory of it in CS Lewis' last Narnia book, THE LAST BATTLE.<BR/><BR/>The outcome of the argument, stripped of its allegory, is that those who are not Christian are let into heaven out of their deeds of good will. Every good deed, even those performed by Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists, is received by Christ as a gift; every evil deed, even those done in Christ's name, is rejected by Christ and accepted by You Know Who.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146064747194106992006-04-26T08:19:00.000-07:002006-04-26T08:19:00.000-07:00LLH:I'm going to go way out on a limb here. I'm so...LLH:<BR/>I'm going to go way out on a limb here. I'm sort of at 56T intro to religion (M-W-F)Rm 203 Dr. Godwin, and hoping I can make it to theology 101. But the question reminds me of the old Sunday school lesson of the Good Samaritan. As it was taught to me many years ago, the Samaritans were sort of equivalent to todays palestinians, that is, by and large they weren't a nice bunch of folks. But it was some passing Samaritan who helped the guy who got mugged, not the holy men of the temple who passed him by. Who was doing God's will?<BR/>As for salvation for non-Christians, Jesus says, "No man comes to the father except through me". (Here's the out on a limb part) I recall Dennis Prager discussing a similar issue quite a while back, and commenting on something Pope John Paul said. As I remember it the pope's position was that non-Christians may indeed achieve salvation, but regardless of their belief, the salvation would come through Christ. In other words- Christ has the last word on the matter, regardless of how any of us may see it. I may be off base here. Perhaps Sal would know.<BR/>Finally- please don't leave the discussion group. I, for one, value your input. We would be the poorer for your absence.<BR/><BR/>JWMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146064211242299962006-04-26T08:10:00.000-07:002006-04-26T08:10:00.000-07:00Wow, the focus sure slid right out of that dim and...Wow, the focus sure slid right out of that dim and pleasing sanctuary-orientation! <BR/><BR/>My own take on this subsequent development consists of two points:<BR/><BR/>Bob, cannily rhetorical and genuinely complex-perspectival communicator that he is, immunized himself from the literalists and from guilt by association with this: "while I do not agree with his every teaching..." No one lands a <I>finger</I> on TMOMIA[KKK]!<BR/><BR/>I am myself very grateful for the metaphysically-technical bibliography that he recaps in his work, especially for his dazzling writing, fearless politics, and psycho-developmental grasp; not to mention what I have experienced of his personal generosity, sincerity, charm, and learning. We must sort the potatoes for ourselves. Unfortunately, a rote belief system taught with enthusiasm but without any philosophical depths makes it very difficult for sincere adherents to sort <EM>anything</EM>. The ground rules are completely different, and do not lend themselves to the parsing of difficult "ex ecclesia" considerations which the Church cannot in integrity avoid and with which she does, often with vast charity and mercy, <A HREF="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=565" REL="nofollow">grapple</A>.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, the "esoteric," cherry-picking, altar-pilfering <BR/><BR/><STRONG><EM>I'm not a communicant or a churchgoer, just a talented metaphysician who understands <EM>being a Christian</EM> better than the mere pew sitters who -- actually tying their shoelaces on Sunday morning and popping off to a service of worship -- try with more or less effort to practice that religion</EM></STRONG> <BR/><BR/>does seem kinda untenable, no matter how much good will is wrestled into the explanatory language. The difference between the actual spiritual phenomenon of high gnosis, and the core error of Gnosticism, is the intrinsic cruelty of the latter which does not offer full exoteric equality for all who seek.<BR/><BR/>So, I guess this little episode is my opportunity to indicate why I must work to keep my own comments light, since there are disagreements and disagreements, with kaleidoscopic triangulations, and inevitably disagreements at some levels spoil the fun and will not receive a real answer.<BR/><BR/>Sorting potatoes isn't always fun and convivial, but one trusts it makes for a satisfying evening meal in the best of company.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146044183018803072006-04-26T02:36:00.000-07:002006-04-26T02:36:00.000-07:00Will, I think you should re-read this whole thread...Will, I think you should re-read this whole thread of comments, since this "personal attack" on me came from you after I threw a question at Bob about Schuon since I had heard his name through another source besides Christianity and was asking if it was the same person. I then went on to share a link that was written by a muslim that pretty much said the same thing that I heard from other sources to try to explain further to Bob what I had been told since I didn't know if Bob knew about it or not. Then Will, you go onto questioning me personally about Christ and the koran and then to claim that you have some Christian insight that I haven't grown into yet or that you have some secret knowledge that I haven't experienced as of yet or that you have already experienced, which the only thing I have shared here about my faith is my faith in Christ, I have never said where I was born or if my mother is Jewish or what country I lived in prior to the USA or even how at the age of 12 I got introduced to Christianity. So I don't know what you base my faith on Will or feel something is missing since I have only shared my faith in Christ. If that is lacking then you can take it up with him since anything I ever shared I posted scripture showing it was where Jesus had said the things. I hadn't just made them up.<BR/><BR/> You seem to have gotten a bit puffed up Will over me asking questions. To be honest I ask questions all the time and many of the times I get a yes along with a no answer. <BR/>Yes and No...<BR/>Yeah thats real revelation isn't it? What does Matthew 5:37 say Will? <BR/>37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.<BR/><BR/>Another thing Will....you should really try to stop putting words into Bob's mouth, since He has never once said or even hinted that something was missing in my spiritual matters. Bob has always been kind and patient even when I pushed for direct questions. Bob has never once tried to change my faith on Jesus but in fact encouraged it many times.<BR/>As for your comments towards my spiritual faith Will and what you think I am lacking my last words to you will be me sharing this and I don't mean it spiteful at all, since if you really knew me you would know I don't have a spiteful bone in me... <BR/><BR/>Romans 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I really don't see me hanging out here anymore so this will be my last post here..and it's nothing to do with you Bob, as like I have said, you have always shown kindness and always been a gentle soul with every response and never once ignored my questions and you have never personally attacked my spirit or lack of my spirit or my intelligence or lack of my intelligence when you have taken the time to answer. I appreciated that very much and it shows alot of peace inside your own spirit to do so. I have enjoyed my time here and enjoyed reading your stuff. It very much felt like sitting in on a class and getting to participate.<BR/>Take care all<BR/>God bless you all <BR/><BR/>Thanks lisa and Jwm and kahn and others for sharing and being so kind.LiquidLifeHackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01949269503629475002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146040420892372762006-04-26T01:33:00.000-07:002006-04-26T01:33:00.000-07:00>>Will...tell me what that is...since you seem to ...>>Will...tell me what that is...since you seem to have secret knowledge of what I have experienced....do tell please! <<<BR/><BR/>It's not a secret, Liquid, it's obvious, plain as day. And as I've been striving to tell you, it's not a secret "knowledge" that's at issue. You're just missing the point and unable to know that you are missing it.<BR/><BR/>Here's the thing - Bob has indicated to you on various occasions, as I have I, that you are missing something in your perception of spiritual matters. Not once have I seen you question this by saying "OK, you say I am missing something? Is there really a chance that I am missing something?"<BR/><BR/>Instead you rush to defend the faith that you perceive to be under attack or at least being contradicted in some way. The irony is that there's no attack to defend against. I wish you could see this. <BR/><BR/>I do not like it when I sound condescending or that I'm attacking you personally, Liquid. I have no wish to do so. You are obviously a very decent person, bless you. <BR/><BR/>It is, however, my perception that Bob's spirituality constitutes a real Christianity that is more encompassing, more complete than yours. He'd tell you the same, only he's too polite to do so. I know you can't see this and it's fruitless for me to argue the point. It would be like a macrobiotic food expert and a French chef arguing about food - seemingly food would be the issue but they'd really be coming at it from two different planes of perception and they'd just pass one another in the night.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of which, I'm tired and it's time for deep zzzz's . . . <BR/><BR/>blessings to you, 'quids.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146037089456776232006-04-26T00:38:00.000-07:002006-04-26T00:38:00.000-07:00Liquidz, this is beside the point I was trying to ...Liquidz, this is beside the point I was trying to make. But to your question, no, you can't believe in both and come out balanced. <BR/>----<BR/><BR/>How is it beside the point? I know what kinda answer you gave me will, but basically it was more your point and avoiding mine. But thanks for answering mine finally..with " no, you can't believe in both and come out balanced."<BR/><BR/>As for " difference between "belief" and "experience" I definately know the difference and I wasn't even talking about mine but about Schuon and his in my sharing with Bob on how I was introduced to Schuon before seeing his name mentioned here since I don't even know if Bob knew about this side of him. And as for your comment on <BR/><BR/>Will--" I do ask that you acknowledge that Bob and I and others might know - that is, experience - an insight into Christianity and spiritual matters that you are not privy to at the present" <BR/><BR/>I do find that a bit humorous that you would even say such a thing since the only thing you got to go on that is what? Because I am not tuned into some secret knowledge of the sufi? As for you already experiencing what I have and do have Will...tell me what that is...since you seem to have secret knowledge of what I have experienced....do tell please!LiquidLifeHackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01949269503629475002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146036603460498952006-04-26T00:30:00.000-07:002006-04-26T00:30:00.000-07:00Kahn - And try fllling the vaccuum with the soothi...Kahn - <BR/><BR/>And try fllling the vaccuum with the soothing sounds of . . . neoncatmusic.com<BR/><BR/>This has been an editorial with a self-serving twist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146035741990884412006-04-26T00:15:00.000-07:002006-04-26T00:15:00.000-07:00JWM,Re: your noise problem, THIS is what you want....JWM,<BR/><BR/>Re: your noise problem, <A HREF="http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10402209&loc=101&sp=1" REL="nofollow">THIS</A> is what you want.<BR/><BR/>I got them because I live above a horrible - horrible!!! - bar, filled with loud, obnoxious drunks with <I>the worst</I> taste in music- my floor will shake to the same nauseating Cher or Ricky Martin song over and over...ugh.<BR/><BR/>But thanks to these headphones, I can get under the covers, pop on some Leonard Cohen or a Kabalah mp3 and drift to sleep, oblivious to the night's 17th scream along to 'Low Rider.' They're also an essential defense on a moonbat infested public transit system. <BR/><BR/>These things block out <I>everything</I> and, as a bonus, you'll also hear music with a surreal clarity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146034676932057552006-04-25T23:57:00.000-07:002006-04-25T23:57:00.000-07:00>>Those that believe what the koran teaches, belie...>>Those that believe what the koran teaches, believe that Jesus never was crucified and therefore never was the lamb of God and there was no work on the cross for our reconciliation with God. So you tell me how one can follow the koran and still follow the truth of the gospel? Can one believe both and still claim to know truth? <<<BR/><BR/>Liquidz, this is beside the point I was trying to make. But to your question, no, you can't believe in both and come out balanced. <BR/><BR/>I'm just trying to nudge you into seeing there's a difference between "belief" and "experience". I don't think you can at this time, but that's fine. I do ask that you acknowledge that Bob and I and others might know - that is, experience - an insight into Christianity and spiritual matters that you are not privy to at the present. And that you acknowledge that Bob and I and others might know the manner in which you have insight into Christianity and spiritual matters because we have already experienced it. I'm sorry if this sounds condescending but I can't say anything else. As Bob rightly points out, we have to acknowledge that there are others who possess spiritual insight that we do not, and that not to do so is a vanity. I acknowledge that there are those who possess such insight greater than mine. And to be honest, you are not one of them. I wish I could make that sound more polite, but I don't know how.<BR/><BR/>I do not for a second doubt your heartfelt commitment to your faith.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146032846914041792006-04-25T23:27:00.000-07:002006-04-25T23:27:00.000-07:00Will, I believe Jesus was God in the flesh so of c...Will, I believe Jesus was God in the flesh so of course I believe God was here before Jesus came in the flesh. But the Christian word isn't what saves me...it was the work on the cross that saves me. There were people that saw Jesus do miracles and still didn't believe Will. Read John 12:37-41<BR/><BR/><BR/>Will, Jesus said, He who has seen Me has seen the Father and in John 14:6 Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.<BR/><BR/>Now Will...in order to believe that ...first you have to believe that Jesus is telling you the truth or He is lying.<BR/><BR/>Those that believe what the koran teaches, believe that Jesus never was crucified and therefore never was the lamb of God and there was no work on the cross for our reconciliation with God. So you tell me how one can follow the koran and still follow the truth of the gospel? Can one believe both and still claim to know truth?LiquidLifeHackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01949269503629475002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146029948972231562006-04-25T22:39:00.000-07:002006-04-25T22:39:00.000-07:00>>Do you know what the Koran teaches about Jesus? ...>>Do you know what the Koran teaches about Jesus? Are you under the impression that the Jesus in the Koran is the same Jesus of the bible?<<<BR/><BR/>Yes. And no. I did say, Liquidinous, that a muslim who *nominally* believes in the Koran - that is, one who is not really bound by belief - can be a follower, that is, one who manifests Christ's example in becoming the Light. <BR/><BR/>>>Will...aren't you doing what you believe? Isn't that the thing...to do what you believe?<<<BR/><BR/>No, I don't always do what I believe. But more to the point I *am* not always what I believe. I keep at it but I often fail in being a follower of Christ. Belief is a handy blueprint for screwing in a light bulb and turning it on. A lot of people never get around to the light bulb - they just study, talk about, the blueprint.<BR/><BR/>Then there are some who glance at the blueprint and just turn on the light. <BR/><BR/>Liquid, consider this: was it possible for a person to really be a Christian before or even during Christ's lifetime on earth?<BR/>Granted, the Light was much harder to access before He manifested it on earth, but the Light has always been there, it is eternal. So I think it was possible. Even during His life time, before there were churches, before there was a NT, before there was an official Christianity, was it possible to be a follower of Christ? I think yes. <BR/><BR/>This is all I'm saying. There can come to be a transcendent spiritual state which passes beyond "belief" - which after all, consists of held mental images that do not always comport with what a person *is* - and into an experiential state, ie., the turning on of the light bulb.<BR/><BR/>Let me analogize it this way - I have a certain educational background, a certain cultural "refinement" - this I would equate with a state of belief. It is, to a certain extent, an image, an appearance, it says a certain amount about who and what I am but it goes just so far. It really doesn't say anything about the depth of my true character. Fact is, I have met my fair share of those who have far less educational background, far less cultural refinement than I have and who are better people than I. So it is, I think, with belief as it relates to real character. Belief as with educational refinement can lead to good things but ultimately it is quite different from depth of character.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146027161926671022006-04-25T21:52:00.000-07:002006-04-25T21:52:00.000-07:00Don't wanna flog a dead horse here, but I think to...Don't wanna flog a dead horse here, but I think to be a true follower of Christ is ultimately contingent what you ARE, not what you believe. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Will...aren't you doing what you believe? Isn't that the thing...to do what you believe? So you are what you do? Correct?<BR/><BR/>Now your logic of a muslim following the koran is following Jesus how? Have you read the Koran? Do you know what the Koran teaches about Jesus? Are you under the impression that the Jesus in the Koran is the same Jesus of the bible?LiquidLifeHackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01949269503629475002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146026932914235152006-04-25T21:48:00.000-07:002006-04-25T21:48:00.000-07:00Bob, all I am trying to share with you is that thi...Bob, all I am trying to share with you is that this man's name has come up to me before...and it was done in a way that was explained to me how some muslims that practice sufism plan on using it in the future to mesh Islam into being accepted into the west in a sorta universal type of way. <BR/><BR/>Now I haven't read all of his writings on Christianity, since he was introduced to me via islamic writings and sources depending on which sect of muslim I was talking to or how he was considered new or traditionlist sufi, although if, Schuon was as kind to Christianity and Hinduism as he was to Islam, then I am sure they are friendly and positive writings. Seems Schuon loved all religions and could conform to them as he seemed to find God at the esoteric vertical of all.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if you have read <A HREF="http://www.aucegypt.edu/faculty/sedgwick/tradsuf.htm" REL="nofollow">THIS</A> but may I ask if from Schuonianism that you got the term vertical and horizontal?<BR/><BR/>Another non-Islamic element in at least Schuon's own personal life was the application to marriage of a distinction unknown to the fiqh [codification of the Law] or the Sharia, that between the 'vertical,' which reaches to God, and the 'horizontal,' which is of earth, which is frequently made in other contexts by Schuonians.(96) In 1965, Schuon (first married in 1949) 'married' Barbara Perry (Hamidah), in a 'vertical' marriage. That this was a 'vertical' marriage is important: Mrs Perry was still married (in a 'horizontal' marriage) to her husband, Whithall Perry, at the time.(97)LiquidLifeHackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01949269503629475002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146025200025834512006-04-25T21:20:00.000-07:002006-04-25T21:20:00.000-07:00Liquidella - Don't wanna flog a dead horse here, ...Liquidella - <BR/><BR/>Don't wanna flog a dead horse here, but I think to be a true follower of Christ is ultimately contingent what you ARE, not what you believe. <BR/><BR/>A muslim might nominally subscribe to the Koran and yet, though his or her personal manifestation of the Light, be essentially a follower of Christ. <BR/><BR/>Indeed, I have met self-proclaimed Christians who very much believe in the Bible and who fail to manifest the Light - these folks, to my mind, are not followers of Christ, except in the most materialistic, mundane sense. <BR/><BR/>Christ, I think, didn't want you to follow Him like he was a local sports team, and in which all you have to do is show up at the games and wear the Jesus decals and jersey. He wanted you to BE like Him. That's how you follow Him. <BR/><BR/>Again, I really don't care what a person calls himself/herself - if they truly manifest the Light, they are followers of Christ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146024597205425532006-04-25T21:09:00.000-07:002006-04-25T21:09:00.000-07:00There is an abundance of evidence verifying God's ...There is an abundance of evidence verifying God's existance. <BR/>AVI is correct to say that some ignore this evidence.<BR/>They're too busy trying to create their own.<BR/>Beauty is often overlooked.<BR/>In nature there are countless examples of beauty to see.<BR/>Every sunrise and sunset is a masterpiece, and it is unique every day. <BR/>I alway's think "How great thou art!" when I see the magnificence of God's creation, and it doesn't end with Earth. The entire cosmos is deluged with exquisite beauty. <BR/>Will (DJ)-<BR/>Thanks (I think). <BR/>I'll check it out.<BR/>:^)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146024409763610002006-04-25T21:06:00.000-07:002006-04-25T21:06:00.000-07:00LLH--I don't know what to say except that Schuon h...LLH--<BR/><BR/>I don't know what to say except that Schuon has the gift of making Christians better Christians, Jews better Jews, Buddhists better Buddhists and Vedantins better Vedantins. He also happens to make Muslims better Muslims, which is undoubtedly why he is banned in Muslim countries. That's going too far. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, neither Schuon nor I have any desire whatsoever to convince or change anyone who is at peace with God.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146021100680108952006-04-25T20:11:00.000-07:002006-04-25T20:11:00.000-07:00Jay---Sri Ramakrishna experienced religious truths...Jay---Sri Ramakrishna experienced religious truths in the Hindu, Christian and Islamic paths within his lifetime. It's definitely possible. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Sure you can find some truths in Islamic paths Jay, since so much of the koran is stolen from the Jewish sacred writings and the Christian ones. Remember Islam came after both. The point is though that Islam contradicts both since it perverts the truth. The koran even teaches to not befriend the people of the book (Jews and Christians)LiquidLifeHackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01949269503629475002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146018384196370772006-04-25T19:26:00.000-07:002006-04-25T19:26:00.000-07:00Yeah Bob, I mean I know the dual religious thingy....Yeah Bob, I mean I know the dual religious thingy....but I mean I have had muslims quote this guy to me and then say that sufism is going to be the bridge that brings Christians and Jews to their way of thinking and they have used this man along with Lings and the whole sufism thingy to describe what they mean. Did he also have the name Shaykh Issa Nureddin Ahmad?<BR/><BR/>Now if this is the same guy....and I am not sure yet if he is, I mean the one that some muslims have quoted to me...then this guy teaches that there are many many paths to God and that there isn't one truth and he actually had muslims students that followed him and his writings. I mean I understand the mystical esoteric thing and how all cultures have had it and do have it, but one cannot take the shahhada and be a follower of Allah and then also be a follower of the Judeo Christian God, because they conflict on their truths of who God is. But like I said, I have been quoted to several times, and I think it's this man they have quoted, but if it is, and you follow him too, then can you explain how one person can claim to have divine truth when it's more just a promotion of religious pluralism? Or would you just say this man was a genius on spiritual things and named what he found as God at the end of every esoteric journey going from one religion to the other?<BR/><BR/>Is this <A HREF="http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/june02_index.php?l=6" REL="nofollow">HIM</A>LiquidLifeHackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01949269503629475002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146016338705722102006-04-25T18:52:00.000-07:002006-04-25T18:52:00.000-07:00Yes and no. He became a Sufi, but only because he...Yes and no. He became a Sufi, but only because he was looking for a path of true initiation. Once he did, he applied his understanding to all of the authentic revelations in an extraordinarily sensitive and beautiful way. He never abandoned his relationship to Christianity, and in fact, deepened it based upon some vivid mystical encounters with Mary. There are books that compile just his Christian teachings, and in my opinion the depth of his insight into Christianity matches that of the greatest saints and mystics. There are some people who are just "religious geniuses."<BR/><BR/>For the record, James Cutsinger, his main compiler, is an Orthodox Christian.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1146015542656505792006-04-25T18:39:00.000-07:002006-04-25T18:39:00.000-07:00Isn't Frithjof Schuon a Christian that converted t...Isn't Frithjof Schuon a Christian that converted to Islam?LiquidLifeHackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01949269503629475002noreply@blogger.com