tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post8592308720272537058..comments2024-03-27T11:16:36.951-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: I Ain't Gonna Work on Darwin's Farm No More: The Limits of a Limitless Science (7.16.11)Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-54564348136940839552009-01-23T23:56:00.000-08:002009-01-23T23:56:00.000-08:00The notion that God is conceived of as strictly tr...The notion that God is conceived of as strictly transcendant in Islam is mistaken. God is first and foremost Al-Rahman Al-Raheem, The All-Merciful. God's Mercy preceeds His Wrath even though His Wrath maybe the gateway to His Mercy. If the emphasis on the transcendance of God is disquieting to Christians whow would say "why would I want rush to a wrathful God," for the mentality of Muslims it is "Why would I respect a God who is pure mercy." The immanance of God is also shown in that His 99 Names are manifested as shadows in his creation "Wherever you turn... There is the Face of God" "And He taught Adam all the Names." For all of your nuance, you have a very caricatured view of Islam. You may benefit from the Metaphyics of ibn Arabi, unless it is your politics, a topic clearly drowning in relativity, which blinds you to viewing Islam on a higher plane.Eahabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04955298327982962296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-88489122245798518512008-07-07T08:38:00.000-07:002008-07-07T08:38:00.000-07:00Julie,In re your reply to me...I kind of feel they...Julie,<BR/><BR/>In re your reply to me...<BR/><BR/>I kind of feel they're the same guy is the point I was making, and deserve the same bashing. For the same reason. They twist the real.<BR/><BR/>The vertical as we call it here can't be real without the horizontal any more than the other way around. Existence is cruciform. It is no accident that the cross is a strong religious symbol and was prior to the Jesus experience. <BR/><BR/>The pursuit of science is as decent a lifework as pursuit of God. The hucksters remain hucksters in any endeavor, not any less dangerous each to the other. Neither can there be hucksters in science just as in religion without the genuine article actually being the backdrop against which they work. The genuine article has depth and weight and God's favor in the horizontal realms as well as in the vertical.<BR/><BR/>The illusory nature of our situation is no less thick along the vertical as along the horizontal. It is also no accident that raccoons are twilight critters, night critters, and bandits. We have to steal the real out of the illusion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-61052188412905794322008-07-07T06:19:00.000-07:002008-07-07T06:19:00.000-07:00When I die, I'm leaving my body to science fiction...When I die, I'm leaving my body to science fiction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-45404651081681465622008-07-07T06:16:00.000-07:002008-07-07T06:16:00.000-07:00My theory of evolution is that Darwin was adopted....My theory of evolution is that Darwin was adopted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-13171201566882524602008-07-07T06:14:00.000-07:002008-07-07T06:14:00.000-07:00If you had a million Shakespeares, could they writ...If you had a million Shakespeares, could they write like a monkey?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-41078353591371724352008-07-07T06:09:00.000-07:002008-07-07T06:09:00.000-07:00Julie said "But the whole of the wisdumb they try ...Julie said "But the whole of the wisdumb they try to pass along tends to be rather less than the sum of the in<B>duh</B>vidual parts."<BR/><BR/>Heh... now that alone was worth the price of admission!Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-48452423742833483932008-07-07T06:08:00.000-07:002008-07-07T06:08:00.000-07:00"Even in America, "land of the free," at least hal..."Even in America, "land of the free," at least half the population are freedom-hating liberals -- most of whom probably harbor the conceit that they are more "logical" and "scientific" than religious believers!"<BR/><BR/>Having bought into a denial of Free Will... and with awesome Poetic Justice... they have no choice <I>but</I> to be freedom hating literals.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-39735583955763013652008-07-07T06:02:00.000-07:002008-07-07T06:02:00.000-07:00Gecko-What did I do? Besides makin' the easy stuff...Gecko-<BR/>What did I do? Besides makin' the easy stuff look hard that is?<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/steven_wright.html" REL="nofollow">"Alot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."</A>USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-34025134475752552832008-07-07T05:50:00.000-07:002008-07-07T05:50:00.000-07:00I'm a daily larker I like meadows and lemonsBob' p...I'm a daily larker <BR/>I like meadows and lemons<BR/>Bob' post is all netUSS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-45622902540300344292008-07-07T04:20:00.000-07:002008-07-07T04:20:00.000-07:00I'm a daily lurker...just always a day late and a ...I'm a daily lurker...just always a day late and a remark short given the time zone difference (East coast) and the fact that I like to download these gems into my mental software early in the morning when the spirit is moving.phil ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15486481489355451711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-54010500808697020932008-07-06T20:06:00.000-07:002008-07-06T20:06:00.000-07:00"What I will not do is tar with the same brush the..."What I will not do is tar with the same brush the guy down the street who works in the medlab and the fellow over at Portland State who is chasing down data on the movements of upstream and downstream salmon migrants. Or even the crews at CERN who are chasing signs of the "God" particle."<BR/><BR/>I don't think <I>anybody</I> here is doing that, Christopher. Nobody here is (or should be, anyway) anti-science. Hell, if it weren't for science we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The objection is to those who would elevate science to religion. <BR/><BR/>And as to the phony hucksters of faith, as Bob pointed out a couple of weeks ago a counterfeit bill only has credibility or value if the real thing actually exists. Counterfeit wisemen cloak themselves in trappings of partial truth, and some of it may even have real value. But the whole of the wisdumb they try to pass along tends to be rather less than the sum of the induhvidual parts.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-74894305240845246432008-07-06T15:40:00.000-07:002008-07-06T15:40:00.000-07:00Gbob, love your post today on the limits of scienc...Gbob, love your post today on the limits of science. I happily agree, a matter of different realms that "really" exist. Science is a game, as described in the mathematical theory of games, and within its rules there are an indeterminate number of paths of specialization. We are in no way at the end of its limits but there are indeed limits. The limits are self evident, as are the limits placed on the movements of chess pieces and the definition of the world (chessboard), but these limits are not part of the action of the game. Instead they make the game possible.<BR/><BR/>There are normal human daily experiences outside the realm of science that take place in the subjective and intersubjective realms. There are other encounters that are more rare but also do not pertain to the rules of science, that take place in some kind of "objective" realm not amenable to scientific methods.<BR/><BR/>Many of these we call spiritual.<BR/><BR/>And yet within the rules of scientific activity, there is nothing like an end to the inquiry anywhere near, and also such an end cannot be predicted. The data can and will continue to be gathered and as can be seen on any of hundreds of internet sites, the fruits of these endeavors grow on one another exponentially.<BR/><BR/>In other words, any time a system reaches a sufficient complexity of operators and operations, there is an indeterminite, a pseudo-infinite result. Science and chess are both such systems. So is music, why we have not come to the end and cannot come to the end of musical composition even though every component is limited in scope. <BR/><BR/>There are life paths open to any who choose the scientific disciplines involved, and there are many scientists engaged in the effort, with communities and communications among themselves, something called peer review and repeatability being important features of the whole lifestyle.<BR/><BR/>The best of these guys and gals remember just what you point out here in the blogs I have read, that there is a great deal of our human experience which does not happen within the limits of the scientific method. This is simply so. The best scientists will live public professional lives within their discipline and private lives outside it. Quite as it should be.<BR/><BR/>Exaggeration and abuse occurs in any human endeavor, including spiritual ones. For one Richard Dawkins, I call with one Jerry Falwell. Then I raise with one Deepak Chopra. You call with Christopher Hitchens, and then me, I raise again with the local Unitarian minister whom I am now boycotting with regret.<BR/><BR/>What I will not do is tar with the same brush the guy down the street who works in the medlab and the fellow over at Portland State who is chasing down data on the movements of upstream and downstream salmon migrants. Or even the crews at CERN who are chasing signs of the "God" particle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-26092881337877351802008-07-06T14:14:00.000-07:002008-07-06T14:14:00.000-07:00By O, I did the linky dink finally! Baby steps,bab...<A HREF="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103241/quotes" REL="nofollow"> By O, I did the linky dink finally! Baby steps,babysteps with thanks to Mizze,Joan, and Ben and to all coonposters for their great coontributions to all who knock.</A>Geckohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11150958111957262924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-30575666850370707232008-07-06T13:46:00.000-07:002008-07-06T13:46:00.000-07:00Julie -Syncoonicity!But usually I'm Dopey because ...Julie -<BR/><BR/>Syncoonicity!<BR/><BR/>But usually I'm Dopey because I'm Sleepy.<BR/><BR/>Can I get a <I>Wakey, wakey?</I>walthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01388218390016612051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-136441087717354682008-07-06T13:42:00.000-07:002008-07-06T13:42:00.000-07:00Walt, my niece picked out this hat yesterday"I'm G...Walt, my niece picked out this hat yesterday<BR/>"I'm Grumpy because you're Dopey"juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-82476333273690864432008-07-06T13:10:00.000-07:002008-07-06T13:10:00.000-07:00Yep. That's the one!Yep. <I>That's the one!</I>walthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01388218390016612051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-60516806169480049182008-07-06T13:09:00.000-07:002008-07-06T13:09:00.000-07:00To be honest, LaFayette picked it up from Future L...To be honest, LaFayette picked it up from Future Leader -- who does it when he's constipated -- and it just kind of took on a life of it's own.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-55137614537391308162008-07-06T13:01:00.000-07:002008-07-06T13:01:00.000-07:00We may not be referring to the same thing, but I l...We may not be referring to the same thing, but I learned to "grumpy dance" at home, in my spare time.walthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01388218390016612051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-65614987451508738272008-07-06T12:48:00.000-07:002008-07-06T12:48:00.000-07:00As with so much metaphysical thought, what's true ...<I>As with so much metaphysical thought, what's true isn't new, and what's new isn't true. But I respect him for trying to slip metaphysics into the back door of science. Then again, I imagine he runs with the Deepak crowd, so I don't know....</I><BR/><BR/>GBob <BR/>I would guess his followers like Deepak to. I doubt Sheldrake is anywhere near as rich as Chopra<BR/><BR/>Sheldrake was a real favorite of the New Age magazines I would read 25 years ago. But don't write off all this new age stuff. I've done zen meditation and TM. In my case at least it helped me to "get" Islam very quickly with the help of Robert Spencer<BR/><BR/>BTW Islam is the ultimate sociobiology driven religion. Its evolutionary strategy is the best with its polygamy and cousin marriage and hunger for non-Muslism women. Stanly Kurtz is the authority on this<BR/><BR/>Respectfully,<BR/>GAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-82483005645142356932008-07-06T12:47:00.000-07:002008-07-06T12:47:00.000-07:00What fabulous music we're listening to here today....What <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007IC1QQ/sr=1-1/qid=1215373475/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1215373475&sr=1-1&seller=" REL="nofollow">fabulous music</A> we're listening to here today. With the family out, we can really crank it to eleven! And LaFayette is drawing big laughs with his famous "grumpy dance."Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-35168075839785668222008-07-06T12:43:00.000-07:002008-07-06T12:43:00.000-07:00I think Akhter thought we were giving away a free ...I think Akhter thought we were giving away a free kufi...Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-85208485451645516512008-07-06T12:37:00.000-07:002008-07-06T12:37:00.000-07:00Cuz -You prolly noticed that both comments on that...Cuz -<BR/><BR/>You prolly noticed that both comments on that post were requests from other sites that he not leave long comments on their blogs.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure, but me playing "shill" today doesn't seem to be working.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps Bob could offer "Free Coffee," or something . . .walthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01388218390016612051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-47188684955532886542008-07-06T12:36:00.001-07:002008-07-06T12:36:00.001-07:00Akhter:Forgive my ignorance, but is there a "Musli...Akhter:<BR/><BR/>Forgive my ignorance, but is there a "Muslim Tom Jones?"Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-25491807336251045592008-07-06T12:36:00.000-07:002008-07-06T12:36:00.000-07:00Very much appreciated GBob. Geunon or Schuon? Neve...Very much appreciated GBob. Geunon or Schuon? Never even heard of them. I will try to read your "One Cosmos" but meanwhile I will try to read every new blog entry of yours<BR/><BR/>I am a suspicious peasant or at least like to think I am. So was my father. The older he got the more suspicious he got. He despised all doctors in his last years. He passed last year. His girlfriend told me he never got a real eye exam in his last decade. He just renewed ye old prescription. He liked the plush anonymity of the marble floored Cleveland Clinic. Half the reason he had me take him there was the Starbuck's concession there. He adored that latte stuff. Was a real treat since he probably only had 5 in his long life of coffee drinking. I never drink the stuff and it's boring to watch others do as it perks up their brain a bit and they start talking<BR/><BR/>I planted some fruit trees recently. My best recent accomplishment. All tree planting is forward looking. "Forward looking" is a big cliché these days. Same as the words "passionate" and "focused" I wish I had a dime for everytime I heard Hillary use the word "focused"<BR/><BR/>I like your raccoon totemism. Mine would be a duck<BR/><BR/>GAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-73485248851447585182008-07-06T12:33:00.000-07:002008-07-06T12:33:00.000-07:00Does that include spelling problems?Does that include spelling problems?Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.com