tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post8126033429469669338..comments2024-03-18T21:33:35.309-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Freedom, Morality, and New Year's Revolutions (1.03.11)Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-72504670510660034502008-01-02T11:39:00.000-08:002008-01-02T11:39:00.000-08:00But as A.Rational Human makes plain, that context ...But as A.Rational Human makes plain, that context pretty much isn't engaged in.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-11469992884564544412008-01-02T11:36:00.000-08:002008-01-02T11:36:00.000-08:00The thing that often puzzled me about Rand, especi...The thing that often puzzled me about Rand, especially in the last OC couple years, is that as oriented around Heirarchy and context as her entire Philosophy is, that she never saw the difference between a horizontal, literal interpretation of 'Talking Snake' stories, which were the cheif target of her attacks, and the vertical, metaphorical/spiritual interpretation of 'Talking Snake' tales.<BR/><BR/>I suppose she was so focused on an Objective, visible link, and growing up in turn of the century Russia with all the worst aspects of religious mystics, and atheistic determimystics, surrounding and impacting her and her family, that she drew her conclusions from that, and that was that.<BR/><BR/>The Irony is, that her Philosophy meshes perfectly smoothly with Religious thought, if done so in the proper context.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-25223993029899476222008-01-02T07:56:00.000-08:002008-01-02T07:56:00.000-08:00Humm.. Seems like 'A. Rational' forgets how intrus...Humm.. Seems like 'A. Rational' forgets how intrusive morality really is. <BR/><BR/>For instance, do we assume that the teenage couple who has sex before marriage and has a child out of wedlock does so out of malice? Of course not. Does that make it right? Again, no. <BR/><BR/>Clarity is, the side rails always feel .. arbitrary, but the reality is that the straight and narrow high way is paved, even as the off-road is not. It is easier to bowl with bumpers, but in the end we must take them away. More realistically, the bumpers must become intangible, present in spirit while invisible to the senses. <BR/><BR/>The libertine is fooled by their absence to believe that we now, enlightened as we are, can go in any direction as long as we do not 'harm others'. Of course, this relies on a materialist metaphysic; whenever we sin we pollute the world at large, and in a trickle-down our personal sin will damage others. But again, this is personal choice. Without personal choice to not sin, the act is meaningless.<BR/><BR/>This is not something to fear per se, but at least to acknowledge. The goal is to overcome it, and you can't overcome something by becoming consumed by fear.<BR/><BR/>Besides, nobody wins bowling by rolling a bunch of gutter balls. You can have some fun, but my experience is that you only have fun if everyone is bowling gutter balls. All it takes is one person who gnos what they are doing to ruin it for all of the libertines. Envy....<BR/><BR/>Guess that's why we've got martyrs.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-56679131763116395072008-01-02T07:35:00.000-08:002008-01-02T07:35:00.000-08:00Yes, when I said Rand was a good disinfectant, I m...Yes, when I said Rand was a good disinfectant, I meant it, and that's no small accomplishment. But ultimately her ideas were incompatible with the conservative intellectual movement. Buckley published a novel about this a few years back, that went into how and why the movements had to go their separate ways in the late '50s - early '60s. Can't think of the name....Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-20698537113681029232008-01-02T07:32:00.000-08:002008-01-02T07:32:00.000-08:00AT--Yes, I have a giant edition of Manly Hall's "S...AT--<BR/><BR/>Yes, I have a giant edition of Manly Hall's "Secret Teachings of all Ages," but haven't seen that video. I'll check out out later. As for Wilber, I don't know. He lost his edge a long time ago, and now he's pretty much just a new age celebrity guru.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-61982104662507441172008-01-02T06:05:00.000-08:002008-01-02T06:05:00.000-08:00Johan,Yep, still enjoy reading her too.Her real va...Johan,<BR/>Yep, still enjoy reading her too.<BR/>Her real value, I think, was in her theory of Concept formation and with the CCD(Conceptual Common Denominator) and Measurement Omission - with those, all else follows, and old Philosophical difficulties like the 'Problem of Universals' disappear.<BR/><BR/>Excellent disinfectant.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-83835418267292801802008-01-02T05:14:00.000-08:002008-01-02T05:14:00.000-08:00Just as Van did, I also started out on the liberta...Just as Van did, I also started out on the libertarian/objectivist (I had exactly that confused view of method/truth) path before I ran into OC. How ever I still enjoy reading Rand, maybe most because of her way of so accurately describing the bad guys, their actions and their (twisted) virtues. Rand did a great job putting morality into capitalism and market economy, although, as I understand her, she didn't get it from truth, but rather from method (reason). She totally rejected religion as anti-reason, and I can actually not blame her that much, since too often that’s the only way religion is presented to us.<BR/><BR/>Since Aristoteles logic and reason was the very foundation for her thinking, I would really like to see what she had to say about St. Thomas Aquinas. A quick look at <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand#Philosophical_influences<br/>" REL="nofollow">wikipedia</A> tells me that she approved of both Spinoza and St. Thomas Aquinas...<BR/><BR/>Johan, cosmic SwedeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-20584793401513582922008-01-01T23:25:00.000-08:002008-01-01T23:25:00.000-08:00Bob--have you ever heard this man before? I just f...Bob--have you ever heard this man before? I just found him tonight on YouTube....<BR/><BR/>http://youtube.com/watch?v=bbqIm9DILdg<BR/><BR/>And what do you make of Ken Wilbur's leftist idealism?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-50138944346599771032008-01-01T21:17:00.000-08:002008-01-01T21:17:00.000-08:00But yes, that's it in a nutshell :)But yes, that's it in a nutshell :)juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-30405115533337078082008-01-01T18:59:00.000-08:002008-01-01T18:59:00.000-08:00i phrased the first part of that last comment in q...i phrased the first part of that last comment in question form, but it really was intended to be more statement-ish.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-71110497890915499412008-01-01T18:50:00.000-08:002008-01-01T18:50:00.000-08:00so the busier people are becoming who they really ...so the busier people are becoming who they really are, the less likely they will want socialism/leftism? <BR/><BR/>i realize this one's a little short-winded. but it goes back to the post i think.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-71522695179196731402008-01-01T18:20:00.000-08:002008-01-01T18:20:00.000-08:00Elephant said: Why do people get sucked into it? T...Elephant said: Why do people get sucked into it? The power of it once someone gets sucked is seriously close to heroin. <BR/><BR/>For all the blather about sharing & equality, that's only meant for the masses. The hard-core envision themselves on the top of the heap, In charge, directing traffic & thus exempt from the miserable life they would impose on the rest of us. After all, we should be grateful for what they deign to do for us.<BR/><BR/>Don't fool yourself, it's all about the power to tell other people what to do. Mediocre minds, who can't make it in the real world, bossing & forcing their will on others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-28646875487166660182008-01-01T18:16:00.000-08:002008-01-01T18:16:00.000-08:00Julie - Nailed it! The desire for the appearance o...Julie - Nailed it! The desire for the appearance of substance, without the necessity of producing substance, or more simply - Envy, is at the root of it all.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-85453966699940655252008-01-01T17:00:00.000-08:002008-01-01T17:00:00.000-08:00Elephant, I can tell you what the lure is, at leas...Elephant, I can tell you what the lure is, at least for some people. I once took a class on economics and World War II, with a professor who was a rare treasure (<I>not</I> a raving lefist). One of my classmates was a socially awkward, overweight LGBT member who thought communism was a great idea, and would frequently opine that the world would just be better if we'd all just <I>share</I>. In his mind, it was a way to put himself on equal footing with everyone. He was painfully aware of his own perceived inadequacies, but instead of seeking ways to better himself his wish was to make everyone else just as awkward (and therefore just as <I>inclusive</I>) as he was. Basically, it was another facet of envy. And no matter how much my teacher strove to convince this kid that his ideals were not just wrong but doomed to utter failure and immense harm, this kid didn't get it. Fortunately, a great many others of us <I>did</I>.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-82233925289391132462008-01-01T16:40:00.000-08:002008-01-01T16:40:00.000-08:00Pamela's a cutie though...Pamela's a cutie though...IrOnY RaGeDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15415495177472751193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-69168062384501379192008-01-01T15:45:00.000-08:002008-01-01T15:45:00.000-08:00Nomo said “BTW Van - I've been plodding through At...Nomo said “BTW Van - I've been plodding through Atlas Shrugged for at least the last year (I tend to read a bunch of different things simultaneously - short attention span). Don't know about all that Randian Objectivism stuff - I just like the characters and the story.”<BR/><BR/>I’m always amazed by who does and who doesn’t like it… but I think you have to like old black and white movies to like it, that’s sort of the style she writes in – not surprising, since Rand used to be a screenwriter for old black and white movies. <BR/><BR/>Wait till you get to Galt’s speech, good stuff – just keep in mind that whenever mysticism & religion is mentioned it’s the literalist, hucksterish, Ayatollah variety, and you'll get through it just fine.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-51671980804427445512008-01-01T15:10:00.000-08:002008-01-01T15:10:00.000-08:00Mr. Marx is a (figuratively-speaking) fat, control...Mr. Marx is a (figuratively-speaking) fat, controlling parent who created a false world in which the kids can stay kids, avoid reality, avoid real responsibility (only servitude to him), and which gives the appearance of removal of real consequences. His kids are lazy. He is lazy. The firm limits of the state put all responsibility energy in that basket so it is done for you. It is like drugs. It cuts you off from interacting with reality. The lure, I don't know. To any sober mind it is not attractive, not worth a second look. Why do people get sucked into it? The power of it once someone gets sucked is seriously close to heroin. One gets that pleasure of relieval of responsibility and it's hard to get back. Of course it is nothing that a quick reality-check can't cure [because this can't shake a measly, miserly fist at the heavyweight champ, (the deliciousness of) Truth] but it is a dangerous game. <BR/><BR/>If drugs are often taken to ameliorate real pain, then what bruise created this vacuum for leftism, in the US especially? Or was it a slight of hand whereby people didn't know what they had and traded their duties for something else (thinking of the 1930's.) Maybe it was simple deception. Some people decide God is not as trustworthy as their senses and bang - materialism and its friends are the logical result. <BR/><BR/>Jefferson warned that people should be heartily educated so as not find their freedoms in jeopardy. The freedom-responsibility/security-control <BR/>coin can be taught but is this enough? I guess empirical result could show that it is better. But how to alleviate false guilt that it is "capitalism" that is the problem rather than human internal folly? so as to avoid attraction to try create a "utopia" since "man is basically good" rather than the truth that man is fallen?<BR/><BR/>I realize that is a mouthful. And rawther on the topic of politics, but it is really on the topic of maintaining conditions required for spiritual freedom. <BR/><BR/>sorry for the explosion of a mouthful. uggh. sorry again.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-20686395463170792402008-01-01T14:59:00.000-08:002008-01-01T14:59:00.000-08:00(Van) "...some old dead (probably) white guy once ...(Van) "...some old dead (probably) white guy once said that 'the Sabbath is made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath." (Nomo: go ahead and correct that for me if you will...)"<BR/><BR/>Glad to - he wasn't a white guy.<BR/><BR/>Nog 8*)<BR/><BR/>BTW Van - I've been plodding through Atlas Shrugged for at least the last year (I tend to read a bunch of different things simultaneously - short attention span). Don't know about all that Randian Objectivism stuff - I just like the characters and the story.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-21611321123721688452008-01-01T14:34:00.000-08:002008-01-01T14:34:00.000-08:00"In this regard, there is no question that Randian..."In this regard, there is no question that Randian objectivism can serve as a sort of philosophical disinfectant, clearing away so much dysfunctional and magical ideology. But if that's where you remain, then at best your mind will achieve a sort of adolescent cleverness, in which you are able to use the intellect to deny it -- or to confuse truth with method. "<BR/><BR/>Oh... so true. Having of course come from that route, I must agree. Although, and this keys on the duration of 'if that's where you remain', for me, it brought me to the point where I could look at the world and examine the ideas prevalent in it for myself, rather than for them. It also got me to a position to see that ... it was self limited, yes Objective Reason is the greatest too we have, but hello, it is a tool to be used... by...? - and that, along with a few of these posts, led me to the inwardly ourtwardness of the [de-Jesus willied] Spirit. Like musical scales, it provides boundaries for Music to flourish, but the scales are made for the purpose of the Music, not vice versa... some old dead (probably) white guy once said that 'the Sabbath is made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath." (Nomo: go ahead and correct that for me if you will... afraid the egg nog's making one valiant last stand at the moment here).<BR/><BR/>In the Objectivists defense (sort of), the portion of that things quote that said "The fact is the fetus is a total parasite by any rational understanding of the concept." is taken almost word for word from Rand and Piekoff, the rest I suspect is his own creation... which... I suppose... is probably the point.<BR/><BR/>That view of a child as a parasite, not bothering with any legal reasoning about why the Mom's uterus is pre-emptive of the reach of societies law, and so is her own awesome (in all the dark and sublime implications of the word) moral decision to make - which is my position, but the strident instance that it isn't HUMAN in any way shape or form or worthy of any kind of consideration as such - that was one of the parts that alerted me to the fact that disinfectant is fantastic for cleaning and killing germs, but it provides no sustenance. <BR/><BR/>There comes a point where you have to move on and inwardly outward - or try to sustain yourself on disinfectant - and I think A. Rational Human illustrates that horribly well.<BR/><BR/>"And as Augustine recognized, "the saved in Heaven would no longer be able to sin, owing to their will having become perfectly free" (Bolton, italics mine)... the point remains: we are only truly free to choose the good and know the true, unless lies and truth are interchangeable."<BR/><BR/>There you go, now <I>that's</I> a good foot to start off this Year's trek on.<BR/><BR/>BTW, that's one fine looking parasite you've got there.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-79841764590639372432008-01-01T14:14:00.000-08:002008-01-01T14:14:00.000-08:00Bob said: "But these things only flow from the fac...Bob said: "But these things only flow from the fact that liberalism is anti-freedom in principle, since it celebrates the elimination of all the time-tested boundary conditions -- i.e., spiritual values -- that have made Western civilization so extraordinarily successful. Truly, liberals are dreadful."<BR/><BR/>As Tomberg has paraphrased in The Covenant of the Heart, the above is nothing more than sucumbing to the temptation of the evil one: ye shall be as gods. Attempting to live without limits is to take a bite of the apple. Not only is this is seen in leftists but also in the present generation,s embrace of technology as a panacea for life's ills. All built on silicon (silly con). Perhaps the Apple logo is right on...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-33170621681621848932008-01-01T14:02:00.000-08:002008-01-01T14:02:00.000-08:00Bob said: "In short, only a new year's revolution ...Bob said: "In short, only a new year's revolution will suffice. If time is automatically turning around and returning to its source, then it's not really necessary for us to turn around. Rather, in order to renew ourselves and gain a new start, all we have to do is ride the absurcular coattails of time..."<BR/><BR/>I'm in complete agreement with the above. I would only add that the biblical narrative is conveying essentially the same. That is, there is no returning to the paradisical origins by going back in time. Rather as El Christo commands: Pick up your cross and FOLLOW me, which is forward in time...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-76398531295115249602008-01-01T13:28:00.000-08:002008-01-01T13:28:00.000-08:00You parasite is awfully cute!Aras Human is just sp...You parasite is awfully cute!<BR/><BR/>Aras Human is just spouting his version of Original Sin & has to carry thru his lifetime the burden that before he was born, he was already a parasite. <BR/><BR/>Way to go knucklehead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-39464024091431048832008-01-01T12:35:00.000-08:002008-01-01T12:35:00.000-08:00I wonder if his (A contemptuous mow-ron) children,...I wonder if his (A contemptuous mow-ron) children, if he has any, have abandoned the old bastard to his misery.<BR/>If even one were able to live through that sort of mechanical, worse than fatherless childhood and come out at some point relatively unscathed in forgiveness, we'd probably have another Saint on our hands.<BR/>Maybe the good Dr. needs a troll eradication program.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-30259110727157957372008-01-01T12:17:00.000-08:002008-01-01T12:17:00.000-08:00Happy New Year! Looking forward to another year o...Happy New Year! Looking forward to another year of Olluminating insights!<BR/><BR/>Obligatory nudge to try Pilates if you are interested in alignment, Walt...;)Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04969685296436358865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-45067595745100226812008-01-01T11:50:00.000-08:002008-01-01T11:50:00.000-08:00There will be intense competition for the movie ri...There will be intense competition for the movie rights, as well...walthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01388218390016612051noreply@blogger.com