tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post802013037772695125..comments2024-03-28T20:04:20.286-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Simon Says Grab Your BucketGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-67780087654465473892017-07-14T11:09:58.652-07:002017-07-14T11:09:58.652-07:00Sorry for the double evil- must have been a Freudi...Sorry for the double evil- must have been a Freudian slip!Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04865413665629644313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-49636757412538126002017-07-14T11:08:00.812-07:002017-07-14T11:08:00.812-07:00Hi Anon,
I don't think that we can say that G...Hi Anon,<br /><br />I don't think that we can say that God does not have Self mastery. If that were so, then again, He wouldn't be God. I think classical theists would say that God makes evil possible. But then, I do see a problem that you alluded to: why does humanity fall? The traditional answer would be the free will argument. But, is that a satisfactory answer? <br /><br />If it isn't, and we are forced into a qualified nondualist position, then we have the problem of saying that God has evil in his Being. And, as I said before, that doesn't work. The only way out of this conundrum, is to embrace some kind of "double truth" view like that of Shankrara, which relegates not only evil evil to the "illusory" realm of the relative, but also all of creation! And that doesnt work for me either. Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04865413665629644313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-78326659585216353982017-07-13T16:49:32.464-07:002017-07-13T16:49:32.464-07:00Hi Chris:
Your answer seems to address the questi...Hi Chris:<br /><br />Your answer seems to address the question, but it was couched in language which suggested I would have to do some study to figure it out.<br /><br />I think I get what you mean: For instance, if a parent raises a child who commits an atrocity, that atrocity is not to be blamed on the parent. So it goes with God and creation? <br /><br />He made us, and then we invented a privation (evil), which in turn cannot be blamed on God, nor can God extirpate it?<br /><br />This does make sense. Just as each human being has warring factions within (emotion vs intellect, will vs lethargy, etc), so God maybe is not under complete self mastery as I had theorized. Therefore of course He cannot prevent evil being manifested in his creations.<br /><br />Although, the potential for evil, as a latent but unexpressed quality, may still exist within God, or its manifestation in his smaller parts would seem distinctly odd. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-27587608515239418942017-07-13T10:49:07.563-07:002017-07-13T10:49:07.563-07:00Anon,
"There can be nothing except God, and ...Anon,<br /><br />"There can be nothing except God, and nothing outside God"<br /><br /><br /> Christian theism (and all forms of classical theism) insists on the doctrine of <i>creatio ex nihilo</i> which entails the ontological distinction between Creator and created. From this pov, the "one whole" of reality can be affirmed by way of the doctrine of Divine conservation, but that still precludes ontological non-duality. <br /><br />Also, it seems to me that if evil and imperfection are part of God, then He is neither simple nor metaphysically ultimate (evil being a privation)- in which case he isn't God.<br /><br />I would say that people are bored to the extent that they are not God centered.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04865413665629644313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-49451256274429908312017-07-13T09:42:53.522-07:002017-07-13T09:42:53.522-07:00A division within the Godhead, and a division betw...A division within the Godhead, and a division between God and creation, perhaps cannot be said to be different, because the Godhead, God, and creation, are fused into one whole. Think of it as an orange<br /><br />There are numberless ways to divide components or departments of God and talk about the attributes of each, but keep in mind, there can be nothing except God, and nothing outside God. The segments of the orange are all within the peel.<br /><br />Perforce evil and imperfection are within God, and that is going to have to do, from the vantage point of any theism, including Christianity. it is impossible one of God's creations (i.e, bad people or spirits) to manufacture and introduce a novel quality like evil. How can people or spirits bring in something which is not of God? That would grant them mighty powers of generation, outside the circle of transcendent unity. That would mean a fruit fly has landed on your orange. <br /><br />If there is a second domain, apart from God, from which evil and imperfection can be introduced as foreign articles, that upsets the apple cart entirely, and you're back to square one: polytheism. And polytheism has been thoroughly and conclusively debunked.<br /><br />I believe we need to look more closely at boredom. I think there is something profound there. Why are people, when all is good, stable, and secure, not content to just sit still? Is this a quality of the Father as well? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-5316259347539647802017-07-12T22:41:03.365-07:002017-07-12T22:41:03.365-07:00Lots of early fathers say similar things. See for...Lots of early fathers say similar things. See for example <a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1565484851?ie=UTF8&tag=onecos-20&camp=1789&linkCode=xm2&creativeASIN=1565484851" rel="nofollow">Roots of Christian Mysticism</a>.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00911613613759942690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-72074245706002163722017-07-12T22:39:05.543-07:002017-07-12T22:39:05.543-07:00I certainly have no problem with the Orthodox/Eckh...I certainly have no problem with the Orthodox/Eckhartian view. Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00911613613759942690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-69747355603845993052017-07-12T19:43:04.397-07:002017-07-12T19:43:04.397-07:00"The first division is not between God and cr..."The first division is not between God and creation, but rather, within God" <br /><br />To square this with Christian theism, Schuon makes use of Eastern Orthodoxy's essence-energy distinction and Eckhart's God/Godhead distinction, which implies that it mirrors Shankara's doctrine. The problem with this view is that this puts the personal God of classical theism on the "maya" or "less Real" side of the Asolute/relative divide. I think that this is difficult to sustain. Also, the Divine Principle or " beyond-being" category strikes me as an unnecessary addition (and susceptible to an infinite regress objection) to the Thomistic understanding of God as Being Itself. Now, the theist can fall back on a qualified nondualism, but a panentheism of that sort entails evil or imperfection being part of God- and that won't do. So, pace Schuon, it seems to me that the Christian theist must insist that the fundamental distinction is, in fact, between Creator and created. To take any other position would compromise ( I think) God's simplicity and transcendence. Thoughts?Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04865413665629644313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-23166527087444675922017-07-12T12:07:33.498-07:002017-07-12T12:07:33.498-07:00Honesty is our guarantor to the divine sea of puri...Honesty is our guarantor to the divine sea of purity but the default position is not an automatic one but an intentional one that requires a lot of strife and patience. Nothing without price. Thank you Anon.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180761762279054000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-28239932200723274682017-07-12T09:32:49.172-07:002017-07-12T09:32:49.172-07:00Abdulmonem:
Thank you for the posts, particularly...Abdulmonem:<br /><br />Thank you for the posts, particularly the Rumi verses. Rumi writes, "Be generous, be grateful. Confess when you're not."<br /><br />Well, I confess. I'm not generous or grateful, a very large percentage of the time.<br /><br />I remember, as a child of about 7 or 8, entire months elapsed in which I was generous and grateful. I used to give away any money that came to me. I felt joyous and secure. I felt genuine, open, and relaxed. And then one day I coveted a sibling's money and stole it, and then lied to cover it up. Things were never quite the same after that. I went to the Devil<br /><br />My task as I grow older is to return to my original childhood self, after a long and scary passage through life wherein I become self-protective, guarded, covetous, unsatisfied, and stingy. I have not forgotten my true nature. <br /><br />My intuition is people are good; left, right, and center. Take away all stressors, and people will default back to basic goodness. Unless they get bored. That's a whole 'nother source of trouble.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-23435190978001218692017-07-11T12:16:04.216-07:002017-07-11T12:16:04.216-07:00 I like to put here the voice of Rumi soul meande... I like to put here the voice of Rumi soul meandering in the field of the formless,knowing the dark and the light spots of the journey<br /><br />“It’s not always a blind man<br />who falls in a pit. Sometimes it’s one who can see,<br /><br />A holy one does sometimes fall,<br />but by that tribulation, he or she ascends,<br />escapes many illusions, escapes<br />conventional religion, escapes<br />being so bound to phenomena.<br /><br />Think of how PHENOMENA come trooping<br />out of the desert of non-existence<br />into this materiality….<br /><br />This place of phenomena is a wide exchange<br />of highways, with everything going all sorts<br />of different ways.<br />We seem to be sitting still,<br />but we’re actually moving, and the fantasies<br />of phenomena are sliding through us<br />like ideas through curtains.<br />They go to the well<br />of deep love inside each of us.<br />They fill their jars there, and they leave.<br /><br />There is a source they come from,<br />and a fountain inside here.<br />Be generous.<br />Be grateful. Confess when you’re not.<br /><br />We can’t know<br />what the divine intelligence<br />has in mind!<br /><br />Who am I,<br />standing in the midst of this<br />thought-traffic?” enjoy!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180761762279054000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-45482512593921917302017-07-11T10:49:05.161-07:002017-07-11T10:49:05.161-07:00It seems we have been thrown to the periphery and ...It seems we have been thrown to the periphery and god asks us to return to the center to him in a new epistemological modality. Schuon warned us from the caprices of the periphery and Rumi reminds us of the intent to return. In the way back we may go astray pursuing different roads like that of Peter or that of Simon. It is how we interpret the images and the symbols. Tree is a problematic symbol with all its crooked branches and leaves. River is a better symbol in its intentional meandering to the sea. One has to be careful with the images and symbols of our world. I am a Simonian, filling my bucket with precious deeds and devotional chants in my playing way to the sea. It is an intentional journey to him to receive either the mandala of grace or the emblazonment of disgrace. It is a serious play. The Koran make a distinction between the spirit of creation which is accessible to all and the spirit of command that of knowledge which is not accessible to all but to those who strife for it, those who know the difference between the real and the nominal,recognizing the limitlessness of the first and the limitedness of the second. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180761762279054000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-72082087462176357282017-07-11T09:30:10.987-07:002017-07-11T09:30:10.987-07:00Julie you are quite right about the molecules bein...Julie you are quite right about the molecules being very provisional in nature.<br /><br />An examination of matter shows it to be mostly space time. <br /><br />An examination of space time shows little bits of it to be popping into, and out of existence, very rapidly.<br /><br />The Rishis of old thought matter and space time were made out of God consciousness, and was blissed-out. <br /><br />Their formula was: consciousness (called Sat), leads to being (called Chit), and it feels blissful (called Ananda). The whole ball was called Satchitananda.<br /><br />You probably knew that. The blog author has written as much. The theory has some holes.<br /><br />If true, the default setting for the cosmos in general is to be conscious and blissful. <br /><br />That which is unconscious and unhappy must therefore be an anomaly; a curiosity; an artifice, under this precept. <br /><br />From a Christian perspective, the theory is problematic. Why populate a planet with people who need salvation, when it would simple to retain all souls in unborn eternal bliss? An analogy would be a Munchausen syndrome mom, who intentionally makes her child ill so she can be "saved" at the hospital, amidst much fanfare.<br /><br />The story of Adam and Eve, and Man's fall, shows how we became ill, but the back story is whack. God made the serpent and certainly knew full well what the consequences could be. Intentional trouble-making. Setting us up for a fall. Why not just skip the whole serpent and apple thing and just segue to the eternal bliss?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-19747543213902577112017-07-10T13:14:26.476-07:002017-07-10T13:14:26.476-07:00I'd say "weird" except it's not....I'd say "weird" except it's not.robinstarfishhttps://robinstarfish.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-79074273026346154592017-07-10T12:58:22.404-07:002017-07-10T12:58:22.404-07:00That reminds me: I'm reading this outstanding ...That reminds me: I'm reading this outstanding page-turner of a book on Magellan, called Over the Edge of the World. It describes the world maps of the time as consisting of the three known continents (Europe, Africa, Asia) surrounded by water. The image looks like a T inside an O, and indeed, they are called "T in O maps."<br /><br />Likewise, the photo shows the shadow of T in O.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00911613613759942690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-29973756486450990012017-07-10T12:38:01.144-07:002017-07-10T12:38:01.144-07:00Am I nuts or is the shadow Tristan casts on the ba...Am I nuts or is the shadow Tristan casts on the ball pretty much a map of the world? As above, indeed...robinstarfishhttps://robinstarfish.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-79041528037784639972017-07-10T11:52:54.862-07:002017-07-10T11:52:54.862-07:00It's true: born airborne.It's true: born airborne. Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00911613613759942690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-45549288199702953602017-07-10T11:43:15.254-07:002017-07-10T11:43:15.254-07:00Wow - he's in the air almost more than on the ...Wow - he's in the air almost more than on the ground! juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-9503170635292791632017-07-10T11:33:24.447-07:002017-07-10T11:33:24.447-07:00More flipping & tricking from the boy. I taug...More <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA4Pt-wNUEg" rel="nofollow">flipping & tricking</a> from the boy. I taught him everything he knows. Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00911613613759942690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-15444424492585693862017-07-10T10:40:24.470-07:002017-07-10T10:40:24.470-07:00God is the endless nonlocal ocean, we are the mate...<i>God is the endless nonlocal ocean, we are the materialized local shore. </i><br /><br />Funny; any individual is, materially speaking, simply an accretion of molecules that happen to come together in a particular clump for a time. From conception to death (assuming one lives to adulthood), there may well be not a single iota of the self that hasn't been replaced at least once, if not many times over. We are as little sandcastles, built and washed away from one tide to the next.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.com