tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post7848563963921648957..comments2024-03-28T12:10:26.197-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: The Future is Not What it Used to BeGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-26262825197828199822009-06-25T11:28:06.534-07:002009-06-25T11:28:06.534-07:00I thought you might be interested in learning abou...I thought you might be interested in learning about OUR Jewish traditions which embrace the real Christ. We are the Frankist Association of America. One of our members has a new book out:<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/Real-Messiah-Throne-Origins-Christianity/dp/1906787123/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245892844&sr=8-1<br /><br />These are our teachings passed on through generations. If you can’t afford the book you can see the website of our teacher - http://www.stephanhuller.blogspot.com.<br /><br />Shalom<br />Beth El Jacob Franktimlittlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16776344057090149221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-6708771806361976212009-05-30T11:51:42.077-07:002009-05-30T11:51:42.077-07:00G.Bob wrote: "I hope we can say without absurd ch...G.Bob wrote: <I>"I hope we can say without absurd charges of anti-Semitism that the <B>socialist</B> movement was indeed disproportionately represented by secularized Jews, or that Marx himself was the ultimate self-hating Jew. .....I believe this explains the mystery of why some 85-90% of Jews vote Democrat. They do so because they are by and large only nominally religious (or don't understand their religion)..." </I> <br /><br /> "Nominally religious", is right as they may plainly read this in their Scriptures: "[Do not] pervert justice by <B>favoring</B> the poor." Leviticus 19:15 <br /><br />Fr. Richard John Neuhaus (who died on January 8, 2009, at the age of seventy-two), had this to say about socialism: <br /><br /><A HREF="http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=1280" REL="nofollow">"Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion" </A> <br /><br />Pope Benedict agrees: "[Some Christians] are involved in <B>a disastrous confusion between the poor of Scripture and the <I>proletariat </I> of Marx. </B> In this way they pervert the Christian meaning of the poor, and they transform the fight for the rights of the poor into a class fight within the ideological perspective of the class struggle. For them the Church of the poor signifies the Church of the class .." - Pope Benedict XVI - Theologies of Liberation - August 6, 1984 <br /><br />He further explains that "..an authentic...theology: [is] one that puts:<br /><br />[1] God and the life of the spirit first, <br />[2] DIRECT charitable care of others second, <br />[3] and only then draws consequences for a just social order."<br /><br /> - Pope Benedict XVI <A HREF="http://www.ncrcafe.org/node/1091" REL="nofollow">HERE</A>Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033051400545893690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-73381236832131477142009-05-29T21:10:26.734-07:002009-05-29T21:10:26.734-07:00"In other words, "liberation theology" is none oth..."In other words, "liberation theology" is none other than the denial of the realized "vertical" eschatology of Christianity, and its covert replacement with an unrealized horizontal eschatology that inevitably revolves around economics, which in turn reduces to matter and thereby murders God.<br /><br />Examples are just too numerous to chronicle here, but as Pope Benedict said, the loss of transcendence leads to the flight to utopia. But only every time. When people joke about Obama being the messiah, it is actually no joke, as the energy underlying all of the irrational support for him is indeed messianic, except that it is again in the context of a de-Christianized and horizontalized eschatology."<br /><br />Bob, you really hit the nail on the head with this post. I often wonder why proponents of "liberation theology" even bother with the God-talk. It's so totally man-centered. I suppose it's an attempt to "sanctify" their coercive, control-freak political viewpoint.Susannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16381272662339466736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-84249377701797842562009-05-29T21:00:32.161-07:002009-05-29T21:00:32.161-07:00"there is no hope of improving our earthly lot" a..."there is no hope of improving our earthly lot" apart from Christ. Finished it for ya.Susannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16381272662339466736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-43933078762424766362009-05-29T18:42:17.734-07:002009-05-29T18:42:17.734-07:00Julie: Thanks for the improvement on my post - I, ...Julie: Thanks for the improvement on my post - I, of course, agree with it.Alannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-79124804015808152592009-05-29T18:06:26.436-07:002009-05-29T18:06:26.436-07:00Yes, the only way to understand a great thinker is...Yes, the only way to understand a great thinker is to become completely sympathetic to their worldview. It's even more important in religion. This is something Ramakrishna did, for example. He completely surrendered himself to Christianity, and found it to be entirely true. As I recall, he used to weep in his love for Mary.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-3361897205859250442009-05-29T18:00:24.363-07:002009-05-29T18:00:24.363-07:00At the moment, I am completely "surrendered" to Ba...<I>At the moment, I am completely "surrendered" to Balthasar...</I>It's interesting how we have to do that, with the great writers/ thinkers/ knowers especially, in order to really metabolize what it is they're trying to convey. Anything less makes them almost completely opaque.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-84490162614689854452009-05-29T17:44:39.884-07:002009-05-29T17:44:39.884-07:00Will:
It seems to me that you are combining Chris...Will:<br /><br />It seems to me that you are combining Christ and Aurobindo in a most intriguing way. The similarities are quite striking, e.g., Aurobindo "realizing" the supramental vertically, but then having to work on the task of manifesting it horizontally. <br /><br />At the moment, I am completely "surrendered" to Balthasar, so to speak, so I have little perspective on anything else. I'm obviously in the middle of the process of trying to "digest" the Theo-Drama. But I can see myself going back in that direction when this is all over, i.e, some "new" way to reconcile vertical and horizontal, while maintaining a fully orthodox perspective...Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-72448793402061868772009-05-29T17:27:29.652-07:002009-05-29T17:27:29.652-07:00I failed to mention that I find the post to be out...I failed to mention that I find the post to be outstanding. I don't always "get" it with these posts. This one I got.Corynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-41607315956554019482009-05-29T16:29:50.993-07:002009-05-29T16:29:50.993-07:00"Why does the Catholic Church run a soup kitchen? ..."Why does the Catholic Church run a soup kitchen? It clearly envisions an ideal in which no person goes hungry. A utopia, if you will."<br /><br />Not so; as the Founder stated, "The poor you will always have with you."<br /><br /><br />"Utopia is defined as a peaceful, well-ordered society in which spiritual growth is optimized. Food, shelter, and love will be available to all members. "<br /><br />Not so; utopia means "no place".<br /><br />Deepak, is that you?bob f.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1130301781898384192009-05-29T15:38:15.648-07:002009-05-29T15:38:15.648-07:00My point -- or Balthasar's -- is that the old cove...<I>My point -- or Balthasar's -- is that the old covenant was with Israel, i.e., the collective.</I>I know, just pointing out the obvious (my specialty) that hidden in plain sight all along was the idea of the end goal, that being a personal relationship with God. So that the very first record of a man not seeing death is Enoch back before the flood: "Enoch walked with God, and was not." The Bible interprets this to mean that Enoch was translated without seeing death, thousands of years before Abraham, or Christ. <br /><br />I just think it is illustrative that the drive to remain horizontal in relationships is always, and was always displeasing to God. Note when Samuel was the prophetic leader over Israel and they asked for a King "so they could be like the other nations." And God and Samuel were displeased. <br /><br />Now that same thing is manifested with a vengeance in our own Left, in that they hate the difference of America, they want to be just like Europe. Samuel responded when the people asked for a King, "I would that all men be prophets."<br /><br />Have no need of an earthly King, but have the governance of God within, even as a known voice (which is what really makes a prophet what they are....they hear God as well as we hear other people).<br /><br />Note when the crowds tried to take Jesus by force to make him King, He withdrew. <br /><br />This is a deadly game and IMO is coming to a conclusion now in our lifetimes. God is separating for eternity those that REFUSE to grow up, and the manifestation of that refusal is the stuff we are witnessing, the worship of figures here on earth. A thousand proofs will never convince an Obama worshiper, that he is not good, that his intentions are not good. I think many will be destroyed by this man and they will be singing his praises on the way to the graves he dug for them.Kepler Singshttp://www.gideon300.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-56050548505253023852009-05-29T15:24:04.466-07:002009-05-29T15:24:04.466-07:00I meant, of course, that MY comments made for a mu...I meant, of course, that MY comments made for a murked-over esoteric heaviness, not Bob's.willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-86995201666931478312009-05-29T15:18:46.947-07:002009-05-29T15:18:46.947-07:00We each have to work it out for ourselves. Our be...We each have to work it out for ourselves. Our betters give us guidance and counsel and our God provides revelation to them to pass on to us. And if we listen carefully and follow the counsel and live the Law to the best of our ability our God will provide revelation for us as well. He is no respecter of persons and He knows His own. <br /><br />The material challenges of the world serve a spiritual end. Those who fail to understand this inflict incredible harm on themselves and others. This is an ancient lesson constantly being learned, unlearned and relearned. Someone once told me that as we move through this life we are either facing toward Him or away from Him. If facing toward Him then all will be well. If not then our future is, at best, rather dreary.Corynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-79684923003126915762009-05-29T15:18:34.840-07:002009-05-29T15:18:34.840-07:00From the above article,
She rose unsteadily from ...From the above article,<br /><br /><I>She rose unsteadily from her hospital bed to greet me, a shy smile on her face. A scar from the surgery extended around to the base of her throat. The intense young woman I remembered, with the deep laugh and showy clothes, now teetered in baggy pajamas, her voice a hoarse whisper. "I called Pastor Chun to thank him," she said. "Durihana is helping pay for my treatment. Sometimes Pastor Chun comes here, and we pray together." White, Chun had told me, is a committed Christian—"the real thing, a good, pure spirit."<br /><br />White had already visited the apartment she hoped to move into. "First I will buy a computer and a refrigerator," she said, "and I will cook North Korean dishes." She caught me staring. I couldn't help it. She had spent a year locked in a room in China, followed by three months in a crowded detention center in Thailand, and now three months in a hospital room, during which time she had learned of her mother's death and her brother's imprisonment. How could she look so beatific? She walked outside with me to the taxi stand to say goodbye, and when I looked back from the car, White was still standing there, smiling at the spacious sky.</I>juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-55092901658604467672009-05-29T15:17:22.991-07:002009-05-29T15:17:22.991-07:00warning: the following is a murked-over esoteric h...warning: the following is a murked-over esoteric heaviness<br /> <br />>> . . the messiah he hopes for will be nothing whatsoever like Jesus. Rather, he will be more of a political, or let us say, "immanent," messiah who will smite the wicked and restore justice to the world<<<br /> <br />There are even quite a few mystical rabbis that I know of - ie., conservative-minded, Marx and Freud-despising rabbis - who do in fact conceive of the messiah in just this "immanent" way. Obviously as a follower of Christ (if not a "Christian" per se), I can't agree with this perspective. And yet I can in a certain way, for the following reasons - <br /> <br />As the One Who completely overcame the world, Christ was given all power on heaven and earth. In some sense then, Christ became Jehovah. That is, the Divine Creative Force, formerly of nature and necessarily "Other", sublimated itself into its highest, destined expression - human consciousness, one human consciousness. So . . . . <br /> <br />It seems to me that the return of Christ, the Second Coming, would have to necessarily be dramatic, messiah-like. It would have to be the verticality of the "It is accomplished" played out in horizontal, linear time, if only for the merest fraction of a second, the zero-moment when linear time is transfigured into timeless time. All eyes are necessarily going to witness this, but "ye shall be changed" - we will witness it through transfigured eyes. <br /><br />re:smiting the wicked and restoring justice - The return of Christ-as-Jehovah would smite the wicked in the sense of its restoring the natural spiritual balance to the earth, a re-Edenizing, thus the good and evil, sheep and goats, the spiritually progressed and the not-very spiritually progressed - these would be naturally separated, literally to inhabit different dimensions. I should say that these will naturally separate themselves, each being automatically magnetized to their elemental source. <br /><br />What point was I trying to make? O yeah - The return of Christ and the coming of the Jewish messiah are not completely dissimilar in scope. <br /><br />However, as Bob points out, the contention's over whether the messiah has already appeared. Judaism says no, can't be because when the messiah comes, peace comes, and when Christ came, nothing changed. Which is true, in a sense. Wars, strife, death continued. I think to understand the whole Christ Theo-Drama, one has to admit just that . . . nothing did change in that respect. But in another respect, everything changed, is, in fact, changing now. Eternity entered the finite plane, radiating and redeeming all linear time, rendering it timeless time. In this sense, the Resurrected Christ is the returned Christ, and He is here, now. In another sense, Christ is the messiah to come, but who can appear in full only when our senses are transfigured. Only when our senses our transfigured will we see Christ-the-messiah "in glory", outside/inside time. <br /><br />Would it be amiss to say that Christians will behold Christ "outside time" and Jews will behold the messiah "inside time", and that they are both right and that both views penetrate and complete each other?willnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-54065396497354002172009-05-29T15:01:56.591-07:002009-05-29T15:01:56.591-07:00Escaping utopia.
I can't help but notice the hero...<A HREF="http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/02/north-korea/oneill-text/1" REL="nofollow">Escaping utopia</A>.<br /><br />I can't help but notice the heroes in the first section are Christian missionaries. And as an aside, how bad must it be to want to flee <I>to</I> China?juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-23577036200442388072009-05-29T14:30:25.278-07:002009-05-29T14:30:25.278-07:00Van @ 2:17 - indeed; I realized I had neglected th...Van @ 2:17 - indeed; I realized I had neglected that bit after hitting "post."juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-52723085277936046952009-05-29T14:25:26.902-07:002009-05-29T14:25:26.902-07:00Julie quoted Dr. Sanity "...after the devastating ...Julie quoted Dr. Sanity "...after the devastating consequences of forcing people to live in a variety of these "utopian paradises", it is simply amazing that today's left continues to deny the reality of human nature..."<br /><br />As aninnymess demon strated, dreamworlds aren't affected by reality.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-58557185697317366352009-05-29T14:21:32.732-07:002009-05-29T14:21:32.732-07:00aninnymess said "...If utopia were somehow handed ...aninnymess said "...If utopia were somehow handed to the world on a plate, it would be folly to turn it down..."<br /><br />Yeh... and if ice burned it'd be folly not to warm yourself by it. If reality weren't real, it'd be so much easier to satisfy yourself with, wouldn't it?<br /><br />moron.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-84091477286275371492009-05-29T14:17:28.054-07:002009-05-29T14:17:28.054-07:00Julie said "Or perhaps more precisely, the purpose...Julie said "Or perhaps more precisely, the purpose of our government (as originally intended) is to stay out of the way so that people may do that freely.<br /><br />What government provides, it can also take away."<br /><br />And of course, what govt provides, it does so <I>by</I> taking away... whether that be money or rights, it can't give without first taking.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-75922988252330589082009-05-29T14:06:16.893-07:002009-05-29T14:06:16.893-07:00At the risk of creating a rift in the space-time-i...At the risk of creating a rift in the space-time-interweb-continuum, <A HREF="http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2009/05/leftism-aims-low-and-always-reaches-its.html" REL="nofollow">Dr. Sanity</A> had this to say yesterday: <br /><br />"After the leftist disasters of the 20th century; after the devastating consequences of forcing people to live in a variety of these "utopian paradises", it is simply amazing that today's left continues to deny the reality of human nature. Yet they do, and that is why they keep coming back to the same old tired ideas and policies and formulas that have repeatedly failed in the real world and which have always--ALWAYS--ended up unleashing all the evil of which human nature is capable."juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-88108361331240723342009-05-29T13:53:01.466-07:002009-05-29T13:53:01.466-07:00My point -- or Balthasar's -- is that the old cove...My point -- or Balthasar's -- is that the old covenant was with Israel, i.e., the collective.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-47932994528613608462009-05-29T13:51:18.670-07:002009-05-29T13:51:18.670-07:00If utopia were somehow handed to the world on a pl...If utopia were somehow handed to the world on a plate, it would be folly to turn it down, Julie's comments nonwithstanding.<br /><br />That would be akin to self-flagellation or martyrdom, or some other misguided goal.<br /><br />There would of course be challenges to surmount in utopia. These would be spiritual instead of material challenges. <br /><br />Bob of course would have no ammunition for unfavorable comparisons between Christians and others under such conditions, but would that be a serious loss? <br /><br />He'd find something else to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-88818865448330269122009-05-29T13:45:32.664-07:002009-05-29T13:45:32.664-07:00However, early Jewish R & D focused almost exc...<I>However, early Jewish R & D focused almost exclusively on the group as opposed to the individual. Remember, G-d struck a deal with the people of Israel, not the person. No one had a "personal relationship" with God, not even the prophets. </I>Now I hope I am not missing the forest by looking at a tree, but the actual hidden message throughout the Old Covenant was about men that did have a personal relationship with God. It was the masses that had problems with God. <br /><br />Abraham was "the friend of God." David was, "a man after God's own heart." Elijah announces himself to the worldly authority (Ahab) as, "one who stands in the presence of the Lord." So threaded, even through the Jewish writings and traditions was this idea of a personal relationship with God. <br /><br />However by and large the Jews did reject this, because they had a problem with the actual person that God chose to show up as. The horizontal viewpoint was really displayed by Judas. Many people wonder what did Judas do that was so bad? After all his motive was to get Christ to stop all this mystical foo fah rah and smite the Romans and start ruling, forget all this sermon on the mount and healing lepers.<br /><br />However the mindset of Judas is predictive of that such as Marx, or our current Left. If they do have a knowledge of God, He is only to be manipulated for political ends. That is the terrible sin of Judas, and of the Left.Kepler Singshttp://www.gideon300.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-36447307361770031372009-05-29T12:55:59.080-07:002009-05-29T12:55:59.080-07:00Since I have no time today, I'll plagiarize my own...Since I have no time today, I'll plagiarize my own self from over at QP's yesterday:<br /><br />In that maligned black book, the history of humanity is permanently <I>Story</I>boarded, prepared for us filmmakers collectively busy with our impotent erasers and gaudy crayons intent on improving the plot and sexing up the characters. Nevertheless, the O-riginal outline eventually always bleeds through, scandalizing each generation anew.<br /><br />Christ, the untopiate of the people.<br /><br />wv: <I>blimi!</I>robinstarfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15665546554663005609noreply@blogger.com