tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post760235389041452163..comments2024-03-27T11:16:36.951-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: What Happens When We Live? (12.29.11)Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-7602228799247621032008-12-09T11:52:00.000-08:002008-12-09T11:52:00.000-08:00As a capsule illustration of this: St. Teresa foun...<I>As a capsule illustration of this: St. Teresa found that only when she eliminated the image of Christ from her meditations did she scale the transcendental tower. The obstacle was of course the image itself, just as all images - including the exalted image of one's theology - can become obstacles.</I><BR/><BR/>St. John of the Cross wrote at length on this. It is captured nicely in this excerpt from his poem:<BR/>"I came into the unknowing"<BR/><I><BR/>This knowledge by unknowing<BR/>is such a soaring force<BR/>that scholars argue long<BR/>but never leave the ground.<BR/>Their knowledge always fails the source:<BR/>to understand unknowing,<BR/>rising beyond all science. </I><BR/> <BR/>I suppose "knowing by unknowing" is another way of saying "reflect, don't project"<BR/><BR/>On a similar note, it seems that the more intelligent a man is, the greater his temptation to take a bit of gnowledge build his own tower on it. Each successive floor exponentially increases the amount of his own BS bricks™ in the structure. Like Babel, he attempts to reach the heavens via his own strength, and in the same way, he ends up making less and less sense to those around him (most often right before the unwieldy thing collapses on him)<BR/><BR/>Now if you will excuse me, I have some of my own bricks to sort through.Brazentidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14185966349888770222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-34827190133678880482008-12-06T08:06:00.000-08:002008-12-06T08:06:00.000-08:00"The point is, if you have too concrete a theology..."The point is, if you have too concrete a theology, it may very well preclude its realization. Do you understand that? This is why the debates between the conventionally religious and the conventionally atheistic are so fruitless, because both are using overly saturated symbolic expressions."<BR/><BR/>Definitely. Those who give their full allegiance to the Objective, or to the Subjective, choosing one side of the coin or the other, miss the value of the coin itself. As with an anatomist looking at a statue of ... say the <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Michelangelo%27s_Pieta_5450_cropncleaned.jpg" REL="nofollow">Pieta</A>, and seeing a muscle improperly carved, and missing the Art which it only incidentally helped to convey... or from the other side, seeing the incidentally unnatural muscle and declaring man's unworthiness of who the sculpture is a sculpture of, since we don't have, and are unable to attain that feature in ourselves... both in their distraction with incidentals fail to see the whOle, and do not allow the art to live and exert its full power and influence within them.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-91978881133685548522008-12-06T06:32:00.000-08:002008-12-06T06:32:00.000-08:00Judgement-That things Leftists say nobody has a ri...Judgement-<BR/>That things Leftists say nobody has a right to do before they do it while denying they do it.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-29012297974441147112008-12-06T05:32:00.000-08:002008-12-06T05:32:00.000-08:00Found it, (pats self on the back), in the Letter X...Found it, (pats self on the back), in the Letter XIX, The Sun.<BR/>The two triangles of the Holy Soul and Holy Trinity making up the Seal of Solomon.<BR/><BR/>Pity me. <BR/>With my Son and <B>two</B> Daughters, I'm over-ruled on every point.<BR/><BR/>(<I>Doug, that's silly to get hung up on the literal</I>)<BR/><BR/>Nope, that's <I>playful</I>.<BR/>When you can type in your own thoughts without me doin' for you, you'll just have to put up with it.Dougmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08468871451814828157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-75108297682614428692008-12-05T23:20:00.000-08:002008-12-05T23:20:00.000-08:00>>The point is, if you have too concrete a t...>>The point is, if you have too concrete a theology, it may very well preclude its realization<<<BR/><BR/>As a capsule illustration of this: St. Teresa found that only when she eliminated the image of Christ from her meditations did she scale the transcendental tower. The obstacle was of course the image itself, just as all images - including the exalted image of one's theology - can become obstacles. <BR/><BR/>Re: the occult and the arcane - I think at a certain level of consciousness much of this stuff does "make sense" and can even seem a fairly simple extrapolation of basic gnosis. In this sense, reading about/meditating on the akashic book and other such stuff can help to bolster the basics - but one doesn't have to know this stuff. It's the basics that matter. Otherwise the occult stuff just becomes an image-obstacle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-77207951214252881692008-12-05T22:28:00.000-08:002008-12-05T22:28:00.000-08:00> First, this is outside of TraditionThe Orthod...> First, this is outside of Tradition<BR/><BR/>The Orthodox Christian tradition refers to the Blessed Mother as "achrantos" ("spotless"), "panamomos" ("totally without stain"), and "panagia" ("all-holy"), among many other similar titles. So I have no idea what tradition you could be referring to.<BR/><BR/>> Second, it is unnecessary; there is no reason to postulate that Mary was conceived without sin.<BR/><BR/>It's called "logic" (see above). You know, it's that thing that the Papists use too much. <BR/><BR/>> Third, and maybe the biggie, it lessens the significance of the Birth of her Son.<BR/><BR/>So, the Ark of the Covenant, personally chosen by YHVH Himself, somehow lessens the significance of the Covenant it contains? I'll bet YHVH would have ordered Moses to have you stoned for saying that (He could be pretty cranky back in the old days, y'know).<BR/><BR/>> To back off from the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception would jeopardize papal infallibility, although both will have to go (or at least sit down and shut up) if there is to be a reunion with the Eastern cousins<BR/><BR/>> Is that the best excuse the schismatics can come up with these days for persisting in their schism? Lame.Warrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13623170987747998335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-91566892795621296512008-12-05T16:42:00.000-08:002008-12-05T16:42:00.000-08:00An example of oversaturation?Coming up is the Cath...An example of oversaturation?<BR/>Coming up is the Catholic Feast of the Immaculate Conception of Mary. Recently read a short Orthodox commentary on why they do not agree with the Roman Church on this. It is a doctrine only recently (in Catholic years) adopted by the Church. <BR/>First, this is outside of Tradition, which is a pretty serious objection.<BR/>Second, it is unnecessary; there is no reason to postulate that Mary was conceived without sin.<BR/>Third, and maybe the biggie, it lessens the significance of the Birth of her Son.<BR/>The Vatican has backed itself into a corner since it has declared the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception via papal infallibility. To back off from the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception would jeopardize papal infallibility, although both will have to go (or at least sit down and shut up) if there is to be a reunion with the Eastern cousins, which would be a grand and glorious thing.<BR/>Too bad the Vatican didn't leave that alone. They think about things too much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-73925532999279354062008-12-05T15:29:00.000-08:002008-12-05T15:29:00.000-08:00Actually, UF does. He says there is a sort of "sh...Actually, UF does. He says there is a sort of "shadow trinity" consisting of Mother-Daughter-Holy Soul, and which, with the other Trinity, represents the unity of creator and creation, or something. Made a lot of sense at the time I read it.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-23150348227660443042008-12-05T15:21:00.001-08:002008-12-05T15:21:00.001-08:00"God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son,..."God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."<BR/><BR/>Now put the Daughter in the mix and watch all hell break loose.Dougmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08468871451814828157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-48649383952289477782008-12-05T15:21:00.000-08:002008-12-05T15:21:00.000-08:00Sew,the new suit is at the cleaners.Sew,the new suit is at the cleaners.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-33115246624965702682008-12-05T15:11:00.000-08:002008-12-05T15:11:00.000-08:00God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, ...God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.<BR/><BR/>What could be simpler?<BR/><BR/>8)<BR/><BR/>Thankfully, we can know, appreciate, and love someone without fully comprehending them (or I certainly wouldn't keep coming back here!).<BR/><BR/>Petey...rock...too funny.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-33686671386434878172008-12-05T14:33:00.000-08:002008-12-05T14:33:00.000-08:00So the doctrine of Trinity is simple?So the doctrine of Trinity is simple?Aloysiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13858618410784962169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-74345304985162256232008-12-05T14:19:00.000-08:002008-12-05T14:19:00.000-08:00Since we are speaking about "opening to the right ...Since we are speaking about "opening to the right page,"<BR/>I might mention that I happened to flip on this channel while taking a much-needed break from reading. The head-and-hair-splitting subject I was studying? Reformation era theology.<BR/><BR/>How many blind alleys we humans follow when we seek to nail down the mysterious with the precision of a corporate lawyer!<BR/>Hyper-rationalization not only may lead to convoluted idiocy, as River suggests, but to the idiosyncratic reductionism of which Bob speaks.<BR/><BR/>We must think, must argue, and must speak. But our reasonings and our words can never comprehend the Whole of anything.<BR/><BR/>In any event, a timely (coincidental?) subject on this blog today! Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-15320683503702383072008-12-05T14:09:00.000-08:002008-12-05T14:09:00.000-08:00River said:This is like Jazz (and I'm taking some ...River said:<BR/><BR/>This is like Jazz (and I'm taking some lessons right now from a real 'teacher',) wherein we are free to do as we will but not completely. There are scales and styles and songs and chords which we must unthinkingly adhere to. As Polanyi noted, for the thing to be whole the subsidiary (chord, corpus, style) must take on an unconscious quality. This should not fool us into believe it isn't there or isn't real just because it is implicit.<BR/><BR/>the destruction of the unconscious Judeo-Christian guardrails by the one trick pony Left leaves us focusing on parts and the whole slowly dissolves.it appears that even Divine Archetypes wither under concerted attack.<BR/>Wheregoes implicit America, goes America.<BR/>There is always You-Tube and a comeback.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-60357154738757912812008-12-05T12:44:00.000-08:002008-12-05T12:44:00.000-08:00You should absolutely make a video. Just don't...You should absolutely make a video. Just don't forget to wear the coonskin cap.<BR/><BR/>I love that bit of Raccoon theology - thanks Magnus & Petey!. I'm pretty sure that the only reason I manage to get through the day on a regular basis is the stuff I don't know I know. It drives other people crazy - they think I actually have the answers, so they ask me, but I haven't a clue. I've decided all the important stuff is actually stored on somOne else's hard drive, tossed into my brain pan only for the moments I actually need it. <BR/><BR/>Probably safer that way.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-89123662179226293322008-12-05T12:37:00.000-08:002008-12-05T12:37:00.000-08:00Petey is the rock on which I shall build my video....Petey is the rock on which I shall build my video.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-8214010703123448112008-12-05T12:30:00.000-08:002008-12-05T12:30:00.000-08:00"Perhaps I should make a you-tube video...."That p..."Perhaps I should make a you-tube video...."<BR/><BR/>That provoked a good chuckle. Better yet, Petey. <BR/><BR/><BR/>:)Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-87865245827185170132008-12-05T11:16:00.000-08:002008-12-05T11:16:00.000-08:00Now, that is my idea of a good bit of Raccoon theo...Now, that is my idea of a good bit of Raccoon theology: many are the things one may know without having learned them, but many more are the things one cannot know despite (or because of!) having learned them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-21776890080244184272008-12-05T11:12:00.000-08:002008-12-05T11:12:00.000-08:00When I was still young and while I was pretty heav...When I was still young and while I was pretty heavy on the emptiness meditation, I would sometimes randomly know things I could not possibly have learned, but that could be verified afterwards. This was a bit fascinating, but barely marginally useful. I have found it more useful to later in my life discover that there are things I cannot know even if I have learned them. (Because I lack some crucial element to metabolize that truth.) Now that is a revelation that could be useful.Magnus Itlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18445902788427523461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-58633278930338668032008-12-05T11:06:00.000-08:002008-12-05T11:06:00.000-08:00how many times tobe tore down a la rimbaudcosmobli...how many times to<BR/>be tore down a la rimbaud<BR/><I>cosmobliterate!</I>robinstarfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15665546554663005609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-48058232448427209752008-12-05T10:59:00.000-08:002008-12-05T10:59:00.000-08:00Yes. They also seemed to understand the inherent h...Yes. They also seemed to understand the inherent heretic in all of us, i.e. that we all have a view of truth that is just that, a view, and what was <EM>given us</EM> is the whole thing. If we are free to do exactly whatever, our personal tendencies may at times unconsciously shape some of our knowledge into falsehood (or they may become so in the hands of someone following us.) <BR/><BR/>This is like Jazz (and I'm taking some lessons right now from a real 'teacher',) wherein we are free to do as we will but not completely. There are scales and styles and songs and chords which we must unthinkingly adhere to. As Polanyi noted, for the thing to be whole the subsidiary (chord, corpus, style) must take on an unconscious quality. This should not fool us into believe it isn't there or isn't real just because it is implicit.<BR/><BR/>In fact, the implicit is almost more important than the explicit. In the Gospels, for instance, the notion of Jesus being the second person of the Trinity, being God himself, is never explicitly said in so many words, "Christ, who was God..." but rather for those who know what is going on it is implied directly and referenced and alluded to constantly. Again, in the Creed, it is not said that Christ died, but only that he was buried. Nor do we say, I believe in the Trinity, and so forth. <BR/><BR/>I also have many 'opening to the right page' experiences as well, but I have always assumed that God grants small mercies to his servants, whatever that means, and for me it is usually with music books that I have such 'luck'.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-68692037906385228602008-12-05T10:38:00.000-08:002008-12-05T10:38:00.000-08:00But they were also to guard against all the idiosy...But they were also to guard against all the idiosyncratic heresies, many of which involve not so much falsehood as an overemphasis on a single aspect of Truth. Plus, they preserved considerable space for the Mystery.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-61255066474275952972008-12-05T10:28:00.000-08:002008-12-05T10:28:00.000-08:00I've heard from Orthodox that the purpose of the C...I've heard from Orthodox that the purpose of the Councils was actually to guard the <EM>simplicity</EM> of the faith. I.e. "<EM>no you can't come up with a convoluted theory of how God became man.</EM>"<BR/><BR/>Not that it stopped people from doing all kinds of off the wall nonsense, but still, for those who get it, you can see the unbroken line.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-64960442437558891212008-12-05T09:53:00.000-08:002008-12-05T09:53:00.000-08:00And which is why the early Christian councils were...And which is why the early Christian councils were so important in hammering these things out.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-18730314749532515942008-12-05T09:52:00.000-08:002008-12-05T09:52:00.000-08:00Absolutely.Absolutely.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.com