tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post7492264801039454817..comments2024-03-28T12:10:26.197-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Forging our Feathers out of Language (12.15.11)Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-87247217970140774722008-11-28T05:31:00.000-08:002008-11-28T05:31:00.000-08:00Zoltan, if you're going to take that line, I might...Zoltan, if you're going to take that line, I might as well say that "Christianity" ended when the Jerusalem Church was liquidated by the Romans, who replaced it with a syncretic mystery cargo cult.Gandalinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09196550750055246901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-26050781226482439402008-11-26T23:33:00.000-08:002008-11-26T23:33:00.000-08:00"To try to capture poetry with materialism is to k..."To try to capture poetry with materialism is to kill it -- like mounting a butterfly on your wall."<BR/><BR/>1 Cor 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-89718525236524786552008-11-26T20:03:00.000-08:002008-11-26T20:03:00.000-08:00JWM, good find there!Here's another from the forgo...JWM, good find there!<BR/><BR/>Here's another from the forgotten groove yard at the same site, <A HREF="http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/marvell/dialogue.htm" REL="nofollow">A DIALOGUE BETWEEN THE RESOLVED<BR/>SOUL AND CREATED PLEASURE.<BR/></A>Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-88695512688309475332008-11-26T19:09:00.000-08:002008-11-26T19:09:00.000-08:00nonym at 1:25Beware then, the works of this reneg...nonym at 1:25<BR/>Beware then, the works of <A HREF="http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/donnebib.htm" REL="nofollow"> this renegade.</A> He juggles the sacred and sensuous together until one sphere blends right into the other. A tough nut to crack. Worth the effort.<BR/><BR/>JWMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-86606536306602432542008-11-26T18:31:00.000-08:002008-11-26T18:31:00.000-08:00The Psalms (Poems) of David (and others) are Hebre...The Psalms (Poems) of David (and others) are Hebrew and from there Christian.<BR/><BR/>"Jewish" is Hasmonean and following, at a credulous stretch.<BR/><BR/>Most accurately, "Jewish" is post-Jamnia and, from there and before, Christian.David R. Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16416692639208634879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-37061597656221493512008-11-26T17:24:00.000-08:002008-11-26T17:24:00.000-08:00I believe that to a baby, all language is poetry. ...I believe that to a baby, all language is poetry. A word could mean a thousand things or none at all. The idea that words mean things and can be "locked" comes later.Magnus Itlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18445902788427523461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-2815874378381756962008-11-26T15:42:00.000-08:002008-11-26T15:42:00.000-08:00KooneiformGiving the tards a wedgieKooneiform<BR/>Giving the tards a wedgieDougmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08468871451814828157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-77788916806725867982008-11-26T15:35:00.000-08:002008-11-26T15:35:00.000-08:00It looks as though Bob is plugged in to the Ab-ori...It looks as though Bob is plugged in to the Ab-original koons. <BR/><BR/><I>6969<BR/> quwn<BR/>koon<BR/> a primitive root; to strike a musical note, i.e. chant or wail (at a funeral):--lament, mourning woman</I>.<BR/><BR/>(http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/<BR/>kjvstrongs/CONHEB696.htm#S6969)<BR/><BR/>R.I.P. LizardsDougmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08468871451814828157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-65287073385423183672008-11-26T13:50:00.001-08:002008-11-26T13:50:00.001-08:00Cooncur. I am infinitely closer in spirit to the S...Cooncur. I am infinitely closer in spirit to the Sufi than to the insufirable Charles.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-45858347500495920892008-11-26T13:47:00.000-08:002008-11-26T13:47:00.000-08:00I used to read LGF. As others have noted Charles J...I used to read LGF. As others have noted Charles Johnson has taken it upon himself to single-handedy wage <I>jihad</I> against Christians (and other believers) via a non-stop barrage of extremely shallow sometimes offensive hit-pieces against "creationism".<BR/><BR/>I know what genuine leftists are.<BR/><BR/>I know what humble God-fearing conservatives are.<BR/><BR/>What category for people like that, who espouse some conservative values (mostly having to do with countering terrorism, it seems) while evincing a deep hostility toward religion, God, etc?<BR/><BR/>Are they allies?<BR/><BR/>For that matter, am I more closely aligned with the typical (non-jihadist) Muslim, or the typical American hard leftist? My gut tells me I have more in common with the Muslim, at least when it comes to many of the real-world Muslims I've met. The hard leftists I've met leave me feeling like I've seen some sort of vampire or something...<BR/><BR/>Too bad about Charles though. Why he chose to push this and alienate so many people is beyond me. His soapbox, I guess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-55023856213395869672008-11-26T13:25:00.000-08:002008-11-26T13:25:00.000-08:00I had a number of disrespectful and contentious th...I had a number of disrespectful and contentious things to say, but I'll hold off. <BR/><BR/>Even a crusty old troll can see the merit of poetry; even he'll concede Christian poetry has a certain arcane force that this troll doesn't fully understand.<BR/><BR/>Off all phenomenon, poetry comes the closest to convincincing there is Something there. <BR/><BR/>I should not, but do, allow a sliver of doubt to insinuate itself into my scientistic world-view when I confront something like Byron; but, I cannot allow my metaphysic to fall.<BR/><BR/>If God is real then I'm in a world of trouble.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-24554216736516589112008-11-26T13:01:00.000-08:002008-11-26T13:01:00.000-08:00Also, I guess it's worth noting, there is immense ...Also, I guess it's worth noting, there is immense (boundless, almost) volumes of Christian poetry to be found in the liturgical tradition. <BR/><BR/>These typically take the forms of a 'kontakion', 'apolytikion', 'troparion', 'theotokion', and so forth. The kontakion used to be a long poem that was rolled around an oar (it were so big!) apolytikion is a dismissal hymn, a troparion is a theme, and a theotokian is a hymn relating to the Mother of God. These are (as Bob said) actually mantras, as they take the form of a prayer in addition to being sung and rhythmic:<BR/><BR/><EM> O Father Anthony, you imitated the zealous Elijah. <BR/> You followed the straight paths of the Baptist and became a desert dweller. <BR/> By prayer you confirmed the universe. <BR/> Wherefore, intercede with Christ our God to save our souls. </EM><BR/><BR/>I like them better than usual prayers to saints, as they are more poetic and less strictly devotional.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-75895459234840812232008-11-26T12:51:00.000-08:002008-11-26T12:51:00.000-08:00Well, they're also Christian, Gandalin. Same words...Well, they're also Christian, Gandalin. Same words: different interpretation.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-87249313536158867992008-11-26T12:34:00.000-08:002008-11-26T12:34:00.000-08:00I noticed that another of your favorites, St. Theo...I noticed that another of your favorites, St. Theophan, also placed a high value on poetry:<BR/><BR/><I>" If we go for a walk we select the place just because it is beautiful. Higher than all this is the delight given by painting, sculpture, instrumental music and song. Higher still is the enjoyment of poetry."</I><BR/><BR/>And you are something of a poet yourownself, Bob. The "poetry" you post each morning is very stimulating and supportive for us, and your dedication to this project always impresses. <I>One Cosmos</I> has been a real blessing, for which I'm very thankful. Hope you and your family have a fine holiday!walthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01388218390016612051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-60301434258540420332008-11-26T12:14:00.000-08:002008-11-26T12:14:00.000-08:00Gandalin:Good catch. Duly noted. Dylan and Cohen...Gandalin:<BR/><BR/>Good catch. Duly noted. Dylan and Cohen are not the only Jewish poets.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-4214298900922895692008-11-26T12:09:00.000-08:002008-11-26T12:09:00.000-08:00"Truly, we can forge our fetters out of language, ..."Truly, we can forge our fetters out of language, which results in the flightless turkey of materialism. Or, we may forge our feathers word by Word to achieve vertical liftoff."<BR/><BR/><I>Zoom!</I>Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-42726804946785742292008-11-26T12:07:00.000-08:002008-11-26T12:07:00.000-08:00Wouldn't the Psalms of David be rather a Jewish Ma...Wouldn't the Psalms of David be rather a Jewish Mantra? :-)Gandalinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09196550750055246901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-71325921808545586612008-11-26T12:06:00.000-08:002008-11-26T12:06:00.000-08:00"But real poetry defies the law of gravity, and re..."But real poetry defies the law of gravity, and represents "the union of the upper waters and the lower waters on the second say of creation." The poet operates at "the point at which the separated waters meet" and converge, which facilitates a "flow" between them. Surrealism meets at the other end -- where the lower waters of the unconscious meet with the ego to produce mostly nightmares. "<BR/><BR/>O, I like that. I think Poetry is less a product of imagination, than its very image, Poetry is a verbal sculpture of Imagination in the process of imagining, a strumming of the conceptual chords of consciousness... and a finger chart for you the alert reader to play along with, though as any reader of Mel Bay knows... the finger chart is never exactly right, but it's enough for you to play along and improvise with... but enough, I'm just waxing.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-43294215331956424102008-11-26T11:55:00.000-08:002008-11-26T11:55:00.000-08:00"Far from being some sort of superfluous or stupid..."Far from being some sort of superfluous or stupid human trick, poetry is essential for understanding the world. Only our modern materialistic prejudice makes us believe otherwise, for poetry "gives wings to imagination, and without winged imagination... no progress is possible." But this cannot be the undisciplined imagination that seeks only egoic (at best!) self-indulgence and self-aggrandizement -- you know, all those lousy little poets tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson -- but "an imagination that loves truth" and is in conformity with the hyperdimensional Real. "<BR/><BR/><I>O Man, you be playing my tune!</I>Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-42122947826853045512008-11-26T10:37:00.000-08:002008-11-26T10:37:00.000-08:00No I hadn't. Thank you. Our good buddy, QP had ...No I hadn't. Thank you. <A HREF="http://qpsquiptorum.blogspot.com/2008/11/strange-potpourri.html" REL="nofollow">Our good buddy, QP </A> had posted the last stanza a couple of days ago. That's probably why he was on my mind. <BR/><BR/>One of my Cohen favorites is "Everybody Knows". It's like an anthem to cynical disillusionment, except that, seeing behind the alleged illusion, he says it's still more real than the options.<BR/><BR/><I>Everybody knows that the boat is leaking<BR/>Everybody knows that the captain lied<BR/>Everybody got this broken feeling<BR/>Like their father or their dog just died<BR/><BR/>Everybody talking to their pockets<BR/>Everybody wants a box of chocolates<BR/>And a long stem rose<BR/>Everybody knows<BR/></I><BR/>Then he winds up with:<BR/><BR/><I>And everybody knows that youre in trouble<BR/>Everybody knows what you've been through<BR/>From the bloody cross on top of calvary<BR/>To the beach of malibu<BR/>Everybody knows its coming apart<BR/>Take one last look at this sacred heart<BR/>Before it blows<BR/>And everybody knows<BR/></I>mushroomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07651027035577798096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-81396532891649174762008-11-26T10:23:00.000-08:002008-11-26T10:23:00.000-08:00Van in his prime. How's anyone 'sposed to follow t...Van in his prime. How's anyone 'sposed to follow <I>that</I>?robinstarfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15665546554663005609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-18221110677449148992008-11-26T10:18:00.000-08:002008-11-26T10:18:00.000-08:00Did you see the Leonard Cohen posted in Vanderleun...Did you see the Leonard Cohen posted in <A HREF="http://americandigest.org/sidelines/archives/2008/11/anthems_for_our.html" REL="nofollow">Vanderleun</A>'s sidebar? Great.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-84129668310264817462008-11-26T10:17:00.000-08:002008-11-26T10:17:00.000-08:00I died from minerality and became vegetable;And fr...<I>I died from minerality and became vegetable;<BR/>And from vegetativeness I died and became animal.<BR/>I died from animality and became man.<BR/>Then why fear disappearance through death?<BR/>Next time I shall die<BR/>Bringing forth wings and feathers like angels;<BR/>After that, soaring higher than angels -<BR/>What you cannot imagine,<BR/>I shall be that.</I><BR/><BR/>~ RumiQPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15827536245376441948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-61789177700407056532008-11-26T10:12:00.000-08:002008-11-26T10:12:00.000-08:00KK, haven't heard much of Mayer, but some NIN is g...KK, haven't heard much of Mayer, but some NIN is good. I've heard nothing in recent pop music to surpass Leonard Cohen.mushroomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07651027035577798096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-74518947120417491562008-11-26T09:40:00.000-08:002008-11-26T09:40:00.000-08:00Written poetry requires a receptive reader who can...Written poetry requires a receptive reader who can make use of it.<BR/><BR/>Survivors of "wackedemia" at least get some tutoring in Whitman, Shelley, Keats, Browning, et al, but what about the unschooled? They have no chance.<BR/><BR/>Or, is the main consumption of divine effusion located elsewhere now? Where is the poetry of the twenty-something set?<BR/><BR/>It is largely set to music; pop songs of this often have astonishing spiritual content. <BR/><BR/>For example, listen to John Mayer's "Say what you need to Say". It is a Yogic poem of sorts.<BR/><BR/>"Take your so called problems and put them in quotations"<BR/><BR/>Sagacity from a youngster...<BR/><BR/>The true poetic instinct is still current in our youth but seems to me to rely heavily on a musical assist; non-musical poetry such as was so huge in the last 500 years is slowing to a trickle in the pipeline and losing influence.<BR/><BR/>Combine words, music, and imagery and you have the rock video, the poetic transmission of choice for these times. And, an effective medium in my view.<BR/><BR/>The Koffee KriticAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com