tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post6557428413093882769..comments2024-03-18T19:37:21.040-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: On the Probability of God's Certainty (5.10.09)Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-84810765253158811962008-05-19T18:17:00.000-07:002008-05-19T18:17:00.000-07:00Melvin - Ever heard the stories of Spanish mission...Melvin - Ever heard the stories of Spanish missionaries baptizing native-American infants, and then immediately killing them so the babies' souls would be sure to go to Heaven? I'm not sure those are real, but that bears about as much relation to Christian doctrine as 'Social Darwinism' does to evolution. Both positions leave out <I>quite crucial</I> bits of information and come to exactly wrong conclusions.<BR/><BR/>(Feel free to email me, that's my real email address. Or, we could have a discussion on your blog, if you like.)Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-12515800860269340892008-05-19T13:29:00.000-07:002008-05-19T13:29:00.000-07:00Ray,Have read your “So why do you think the concep...Ray,<BR/>Have read your “So why do you think the concept of God is incoherent?” I would enjoy the opportunity to discuss your valid concerns. Are you interested?<BR/>In the love of Christ,<BR/>-MelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-26625705661188653162008-05-19T12:40:00.000-07:002008-05-19T12:40:00.000-07:00There is what Hitler thought and then there is Hit...There is what Hitler thought and then there is Hitler’s line of thinking. His line of thinking, intentional or not, lines up with the evolutionary fairy tale. Sir Arthur Keith argued this as far back as the 1940’s in his book “Evolution and Ethics”. On the other hand, evolution and Christianity are irreconcilable. <BR/>In the love of Christ,<BR/>-MelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-382231096697277952008-05-17T20:32:00.000-07:002008-05-17T20:32:00.000-07:00river cocytus said: "What Hitler was, was a 'pseud...river cocytus said: "What Hitler was, was a 'pseudo Christian'. Like a Gnostic, Arian or Muslim, he took some Christian ideas and modified them to suit his needs." Or like a Black Liberation Theologist.baldilockshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00210427584232389760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-46023030827948627622008-05-17T20:24:00.000-07:002008-05-17T20:24:00.000-07:00Melvin - That's just it. Hitler didn't think Jesus...Melvin - That's just it. Hitler <I>didn't</I> think Jesus was a Jew. He thought Jesus was Aryan.<BR/><BR/>I'd like to repeat that I'm <I>not</I> trying to blame Christianity for Hitler or the Holocaust. I'm simply pointing out that evolution can't take the blame, either. Hitler was, if anything, even <I>less</I> affiliated with evolution than with Christianity. Some people don't like me quoting science fiction authors, but sometimes they're just too darn pithy. Larry Niven: "There is no cause so noble it will not attract some kooks."<BR/><BR/>Van - it sounds like, from your blog, we could get along pretty well. If you look <A HREF="http://ingles.homeunix.net/rants/atheism/unkowable.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>, at the end, I state that <I>dogmatism</I> - being positive you have The Answer - is the real problem. I'm not frightened of laid-back, tolerant atheists or theists who don't take themselves too seriously. But I'm scared of dogmatic theists <I>and</I> dogmatic atheists.Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-6978068352456769522008-05-17T14:56:00.000-07:002008-05-17T14:56:00.000-07:00Hitler was no Christian (Mein Kampf):“The two Chri...Hitler was no Christian (Mein Kampf):<BR/><BR/>“The two Christian denominations look on with indifference at the profanation and destruction of a noble and unique creature who was given to the world as a gift of God’s grace. For the future of the world, however, it does not matter which of the two triumphs over the other, the Catholic or the Protestant. But it does matter whether Aryan humanity survives or perishes. And yet the two Christian denominations are not contending against the destroyer of Aryan humanity but are trying to destroy one another. Everybody who has the right kind of feeling for his country is solemnly bound, each within his own denomination, to see to it that he is not constantly talking about the Will of God merely from the lips but that in actual fact he fulfils the Will of God and does not allow God’s handiwork to be debased. For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. Whoever destroys His work wages war against God’s Creation and God’s Will." (p.310)<BR/><BR/>Hitler worshiped the creature (Aryan humanity) rather than the Creator. He advocated a race war against the Jews with delusions that is was God’s will.<BR/><BR/>"What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfil the mission assigned to it by the Creator." (p.125)<BR/><BR/>How ridiculous would it be that Hitler would think himself any sort of Christian when Jesus was a Jew? <BR/><BR/>"He will stop at nothing. His utterly low-down conduct is so appalling that one really cannot be surprised if in the imagination of our people the Jew is pictured as the incarnation of Satan and the symbol of evil. The ignorance of the broad masses as regards the inner character of the Jew, and the lack of instinct and insight that our upper classes display, are some of the reasons which explain how it is that so many people fall an easy prey to the systematic campaign of falsehood which the Jew carries on. While the upper classes, with their innate cowardliness, turn away from anyone whom the Jew thus attacks with lies and calumny, the common people are credulous of everything, whether because of their ignorance or their simple-mindedness. Government authorities wrap themselves up in a robe of silence, but more frequently they persecute the victims of Jewish attacks in order to stop the campaign in the Jewish Press." (p.184)<BR/><BR/>-MelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-3138937641572008502008-05-17T10:36:00.000-07:002008-05-17T10:36:00.000-07:00Thanks for the tip about Book TV, Ximeze. I saw th...Thanks for the tip about Book TV, Ximeze. I saw the mornin' showing of Berlinski. <BR/>I wasn't too impressed with some of the questions that were asked of him, but maybe I'm being too critical.<BR/>The best part of the show was when Berlinski was talkin'. :^)USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-64858423918240802222008-05-17T10:24:00.000-07:002008-05-17T10:24:00.000-07:00Coongratulations to your wife, Van, that's a big a...Coongratulations to your wife, Van, that's a big achievement!USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-57887810535562232952008-05-17T08:30:00.000-07:002008-05-17T08:30:00.000-07:00sheesh. Please do my fumbling for missing words a...sheesh. Please do my fumbling for missing words and botched grammar for me... told you it was too early.<BR/><BR/>... and it may be too early still, in part, because my Wife graduated last night... full RN now. Woo-Hoo!Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-78705304201517092772008-05-17T08:24:00.000-07:002008-05-17T08:24:00.000-07:00sorceror said "Van - what kind of claims, exactly,...sorceror said "Van - what kind of claims, exactly, are "outrageous"? I suspect we'd agree on some, disagree on others." <BR/><BR/>That really was more of a quip at the canine's expense, than a serious statement. <BR/><BR/>Personally I do believe that the Universe has developed in accordance with the unfolding identity of it and its constituent parts, all of which - though we don't yet grasp the particulars of it (wow - now <I>that's</I> an understatement), form one integrated Whole.<BR/><BR/>I don't have a problem with evolution, I have a problem with evolutionists saying that they are aware of all of the factors involved, and that they are all reducible to known chemical processes, etc. I've read several sensible descriptions of how life evolved and yet while they do not understand the spark of life, they feel adequate to stating how it operates strictly within their conclusions. I think too often they don't have Newton's sense when pressed for an explanation of what gravity was, he replied ... ughh... too early to google the exact quote... something along the lines of "It is enough that I know gravity is, and have demonstrated its effects, one must have the sense to not venture beyond your knowledge and just say 'I don't know'".<BR/><BR/>BTW re your link, if you read the link to my site the other day, you know what opinion I have of Hume, the Dennet type materialists I think are more superstitious than their fundamentalist opponents, and the idea of a 'moral sense' is just more of the same foolishness. <BR/><BR/>"I contend that I am ethical and moral, that people in general are ethical and moral, because the alternative is running naked in the woods fighting over scraps of food."<BR/><BR/>That is nothing more than pragmatism, and Godwin's law and Ricky's rules notwithstanding, that will lead only to their ultimate expression via Hitler and his like.<BR/><BR/>There is the choice to think, or not to think, to think systematically or chaotically, to be principled or pragmatic, to respect reality or prefer your own whims to its dictates. Because of the nature of our minds and our soul (immortal or otherwise), it is through the Poetic, which holographically contains and integrates all the several truths of the prose within its Truth and that the One Truth is always more than can be contained in explanations. I make no claims to knowledge outside what can be observed in reality, I just don't make the mistake of discounting what I can by <A HREF="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/2006/09/as-it-is-above.html" REL="nofollow">first hand experience</A> ... <A HREF="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/2007/01/charged-thoughts-from-depths.html" REL="nofollow">inwardly outwards</A>, or of thinking that my thinking anything is a primary from which to build thoughts upon, ala the silly cogitations or the cogito and Descartes. <BR/><BR/>Existence exists, we know it, and we learn to know what we know by identifying it... step by step - and morality follows from the application of capital 'R' Reason to that... and if you keep to the 'R', rather than the 'r' version of Reason, you'll find no conflict between Logic, Reality and Religion... only with many of the religious and 'rational' people you might meet. Religion, read properly, poetically (Dante gives a nice <A HREF="http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jod/cangrande.english.html" REL="nofollow">explanation here</A>), you’ll probably be as startled as I was in my recent non-theistic past, to discover that there is much more to it than meets the I.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-26950600335701928432008-05-17T08:18:00.000-07:002008-05-17T08:18:00.000-07:00First comes the Word. Then it's all about the spel...First comes the Word. Then it's all about the spelling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-28212799909608063452008-05-17T08:04:00.000-07:002008-05-17T08:04:00.000-07:00"maintanence" or maintenance,One of the two, shees..."maintanence" or maintenance,<BR/>One of the two, sheesh!Dougmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08468871451814828157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-55196724874101983442008-05-17T08:02:00.000-07:002008-05-17T08:02:00.000-07:00SorcerorLook at the evidence.The Vikings were conq...Sorceror<BR/><BR/>Look at the evidence.<BR/>The Vikings were conquered by the Word.<BR/>As were the Romans,etc.<BR/>The list is still being compiled.<BR/>Christ tames the primative, after that, it's all about the <I>maintanence</I>.Dougmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08468871451814828157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-27802691842480349972008-05-17T07:46:00.000-07:002008-05-17T07:46:00.000-07:00Cousin Dupree - Let's at least quote the whole sen...Cousin Dupree - Let's at least quote the whole sentence: "I contend that I am ethical and moral, that <I>people in general</I> are ethical and moral, because the alternative is running naked in the woods fighting over scraps of food."<BR/><BR/>People really <I>do</I> behave decently most of the time, at least with people they consider to be part of 'their group'. Compare day-to-day life with, say, what happens <A HREF="http://archives.cbc.ca/war_conflict/civil_unrest/clips/12238/" REL="nofollow">when the police go on strike</A>.Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-15976857448707950602008-05-17T06:49:00.000-07:002008-05-17T06:49:00.000-07:00The set up of Sorceror's link is rather long and t...The set up of Sorceror's link is rather long and tedious, but at least there's a good punchline: "I contend that people in general are ethical and moral." <BR/><BR/>Yes, that would explain why history is such a freaking paradise.<BR/><BR/>Here again, there is an infinite gap between this "rational" belief and the "irrational" belief that man is fallen. The latter has far more explanatory power than the former, especially if you don't merely stop at the outer "husk," and take the time to probe the depth of its esoteric meaning in an authentic wisdom tradition. I believe it's safe to assume that none of our readers are unaware of alternative explanations for man's evil.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-6940524060591939932008-05-17T06:27:00.000-07:002008-05-17T06:27:00.000-07:00In the opinion of all unbelievers, it is the absur...In the opinion of all unbelievers, it is the absurdities contained in the sacred Scriptures which primarily stand in the way of the credibility of the Message; … error due to an ignorant and hasty reading... First of all, it is necessary to envisage a scripture in its totality and not be hypnotized, with perfect myopia, by a fragmentary difference, which after all is the perspective of the devil, who disparages a mountain because of a fissure and, conversely, praises an evil because of an inevitable particle of good. When Scripture is envisaged in its totality it imparts its global value and its supernatural character to whomever is not blinded by any prejudice and who has been able to preserve intact the normally human sensibility for the majestic and sacred…Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-11553316852113872502008-05-17T06:01:00.000-07:002008-05-17T06:01:00.000-07:00Cousin Dupree - I'd like to advance the possibilit...Cousin Dupree - I'd like to advance the possibility of someone who enjoys thinking about and discussing some of the issues bandied about here, but who has reached different conclusions than you.<BR/><BR/>Van - what kind of claims, exactly, are "outrageous"? I suspect we'd agree on some, disagree on others.<BR/><BR/>Ricky - I don't think I'm the person to ask about who brought up Nazism. But I <I>have</I> <A HREF="http://ingles.homeunix.net/rants/atheism/strategies.html" REL="nofollow">thought about</A> where goodness comes from.Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-42532098139378146562008-05-17T02:23:00.000-07:002008-05-17T02:23:00.000-07:00Bob sed:The human mind is an infinite space, which...Bob sed:<BR/><I>The human mind is an infinite space, which is the only way we can know of the infinite cosmos, being that the cosmos is consciousness exteriorized, while the mind is the cosmos interiorized. Again, animals do not live in the cosmos, only in their nervous systems. Alone among the animals, human beings have broken free of their neurology, and inhabit a vast cosmos in which consciousness is the center and axis. Cosmology is ultimately the study of man -- and vice versa.</I><BR/><BR/>I like this bit. Perhaps this is why, unlike many others I've known who have been fascinated with the heavens, I've never felt particularly insignificant when studying the stars and planets. Not only is the mind of man unfathomably vast within, but it seems designed to continue to expand. Likewise, if I can believe what God is telling us, the stars, planets, galaxies and other celestial objects we observe will some day pass away, but <I>we will not.</I> More than the earth or the moon or the stars, human souls were designed to be eternal. That rocks.<BR/><BR/>(slightly off-topic: Heh. Deuteronomy 25:11-12 seems to suggest that God doesn't much care for the "oooh, right in the family jewels" section of America's Funniest Home Videos. I've gotta say I'm with him on that one.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-86309681440963441742008-05-16T23:47:00.000-07:002008-05-16T23:47:00.000-07:00Sorc,My rule was to not talk to you anymore. It wa...Sorc,<BR/><BR/>My rule was to not talk to you anymore. It was a joke. Now I’ve broken my other rule about jokes. <BR/>But I'll do it only for the record:<BR/>You brought up Hitler. Repeatedly. And you may want to ask yourself why.<BR/><BR/>The point in Bob’s post that I implied that you missed was,<BR/><BR/>“…the great mystery of the cosmos is not why evil exists. Rather, as always, it is why goodness and decency exist. Not why there are sinners, but why there are saints.”<BR/><BR/>That was advice on which half of the cosmos is worth knowing something about.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-65280783600120261042008-05-16T22:29:00.000-07:002008-05-16T22:29:00.000-07:00sorceror said "Evolution is not a philosophy, or a...sorceror said "Evolution is not a philosophy, or a 'theory of everything', but evolutionary thinking can produce some interesting insights, even outside the field of biology."<BR/><BR/>If you browse back through the archives, or better yet, buy <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/dp/1557788367?tag=onecosmos-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=1557788367&adid=1PPVJ5JK38FQDZHJEECM&" REL="nofollow">The Coonifesto</A>(<I>psst! Cuz!... I get a commission... right?</I>), you'll find that the facts of Evolution aren't what is denied here, just the darwinista's magical incantations of it.<BR/><BR/>I mean... really... some of it's claims are as outrageous as... as thinking that ol' yeller snow (poopinschcooper... rabid coon... his nic's are legion) could have descended from Man... ridiculous.<BR/><BR/>(Still laughin' oy)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-88298472359711166182008-05-16T22:28:00.000-07:002008-05-16T22:28:00.000-07:00...or this or this. Seriously....or <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%201:21;&version=49" REL="nofollow">this</A> or <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%204:17-18;&version=49" REL="nofollow">this</A>. Seriously.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-61377310193897220282008-05-16T22:22:00.001-07:002008-05-16T22:22:00.001-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-15284965792004019882008-05-16T22:22:00.000-07:002008-05-16T22:22:00.000-07:00Coonified - You da man.Sorceror - "...pretty famil...Coonified - You da man.<BR/><BR/>Sorceror - "...pretty familiar with the Bible..."? And you're an atheist? Please say <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2012:39-40;&version=72" REL="nofollow">this isn't you</A>.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-63942083779604077692008-05-16T21:20:00.000-07:002008-05-16T21:20:00.000-07:00Sorceror is the most well-mannered troll I can rem...Sorceror is the most well-mannered troll I can remember visiting here. Shows you what good breeding can do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-13096024207146602802008-05-16T20:23:00.000-07:002008-05-16T20:23:00.000-07:00Sorceror,It looks as though you have a cheerleadin...Sorceror,<BR/>It looks as though you have a cheerleading section here. In addition to poopinschcooper, he sometimes uses the moniker 'jackass'. (Letting you in on a little coonfidence there.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com