tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post4039075770397821118..comments2024-03-28T20:04:20.286-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: The Unity of Consciousness: Two, One, Blessed Off! (7.27.10)Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-80091577618915883702007-07-20T22:17:00.000-07:002007-07-20T22:17:00.000-07:00juliec;Preferably, "complement two selves that are...juliec;<BR/>Preferably, "complement <I>two</I> selves that are already reasonably whole." <BR/><BR/>But there aren't that many out there, and as they hook up with each other that leaves only the more or less desperately incompletes looking for something to possess or submit to.Brian Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17895289104798325252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-26348493177805821992007-07-20T22:12:00.000-07:002007-07-20T22:12:00.000-07:00Reminds me of the Sci-Fi fans' retort to those who...Reminds me of the Sci-Fi fans' retort to those who call (hard) science fiction escapist: "In fact it's the only literature which isn't." The anti-escapists, in general, are either without imagination or in hiding from what they imagine they might imagine if they did. Imagine.Brian Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17895289104798325252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-33131083171857059162007-07-19T09:13:00.000-07:002007-07-19T09:13:00.000-07:00JulieC,Thanks, and yes I know they're out there, I...JulieC,<BR/>Thanks, and yes I know they're out there, I think the guy I heard this morning was promoting such a site.<BR/><BR/>Obviously I think they are wrong, and as for those who condemn the Potter books - and imaginative literature in general - for being simplistic or escapist , here's <A HREF="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/2007/07/harry-potter-and-literature-for_16.html" REL="nofollow">my recent take</A> on the matter.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-41388348534112893932007-07-19T08:52:00.000-07:002007-07-19T08:52:00.000-07:00"The cost of being wrong is far less than the cost..."The cost of being wrong is far less than the cost of believing that there is no sense in trying to determine right or wrong, let alone defending your judgement."<BR/><BR/>Thank you, Van - missed your comments yesterday :)<BR/><BR/>As to the Harry Potter thing - there's actually a website that evaluates movies with Christian families in mind (I know because I actually got a phone call from them once, asking for support), based on content, language and context. They give Harry Potter an abysmal rating, because of the magic and witchcraft.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-19061977008531502022007-07-19T08:49:00.000-07:002007-07-19T08:49:00.000-07:00"Schuon wrote that "One of the keys to the underst..."Schuon wrote that "One of the keys to the understanding of our true nature and of our ultimate destiny is the fact that the things of this world never measure up to the real range of our intelligence. Our intelligence is made for the Absolute, or it is nothing. Among all the intelligences of this world the human spirit alone is capable of objectivity, and this implies – or proves – that what confers on our intelligence the power to accomplish to the full what it can accomplish, and what makes it wholly what it is, is the Absolute alone." Along these lines, he quotes Dante: “I perceive that our intellect is never satisfied, if the True does not enlighten it, outside which no truth is possible."<BR/>"<BR/><BR/>Just wanted to see it again. Talk about resonating...Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-84917583509622342352007-07-19T08:44:00.000-07:002007-07-19T08:44:00.000-07:00Nomo, I know what you are saying, however I'm find...Nomo, I know what you are saying, however I'm finding that there are more of them out there than I thought there were.<BR/><BR/>Still, I'd say that putting the two on the scales, I'd say that the balance of value tilt towards the fundie side, than the (standard relatavist) athiests side.<BR/><BR/>Even taken as literally as possible (and you can't completely, just can't) the stories of the Bible create ... can't find the word while debugging code... some substance of soul... within a person, which non-judgmental relativistic beliefs steadily corode away.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-29626616307787827342007-07-19T08:35:00.001-07:002007-07-19T08:35:00.001-07:00anonymous said "Look at the post Reformation relig...anonymous said "Look at the post Reformation religious wars of Europe. People slaughtering each other holus bolus because of different ideas of "truth" rattling around in their brain."<BR/><BR/>At the risk of being misinterpreted... there are worse things than slaughter over the correct interpretation of the Truth. Much is made of the religous wars of the west, but at least they were fighting over what they saw was right and wrong, I'd say that the long drawn out stagnation of the Orient in particular, the unrelenting caste systems and ignorance with its resulting poverty, famine and disease cost hundreds of millions more lives than all the religous wars of the west combined.<BR/><BR/>The cost of being wrong is far less than the cost of believing that there is no sense in trying to determine right or wrong, let alone defending your judgement.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-82318625209006596222007-07-19T08:35:00.000-07:002007-07-19T08:35:00.000-07:00I know they are out there, I just don't believe th...I know they are out there, I just don't believe they're predominant. Unfortunately, they do get all the "press" - which only furthers the cause of the dark side (oh yeah, that's what the press is generally for).NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-9445631621806485892007-07-19T08:33:00.000-07:002007-07-19T08:33:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-65572612082375569672007-07-19T08:21:00.000-07:002007-07-19T08:21:00.000-07:00Afraid I've got to go with Ximeze & Jacob C. on th...Afraid I've got to go with Ximeze & Jacob C. on this one Nomo. I just heard a fundy on the radio driving into work this morning railing against how reading Harry Potter leads to devil worship - not to equate the two, but I'd be curious to hear what he thought of Shakespeare.<BR/><BR/>Another fundie at my last work, it was being renovate and doors and walls kept appearing and dissappearing as new halls or rooms were added or removed, one morning I remarked that trying to get to our office was like walking through a Harry Potter book (moving stairs, etc) and he stopped dead in his tracks and said "I wouldn't know what you're talking about, Harry Potter is the devil's work and we have nothing to do with it around here".<BR/><BR/>Another time I caused a bit of a tizzy in the midst of one of his many comments about the need for an unswerving and literal reading of the Bible, when I noted one of the psalms and asked him where the 'House of Mirth' was located?<BR/><BR/>They are out there.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-40532536508938247852007-07-19T08:13:00.000-07:002007-07-19T08:13:00.000-07:00Anon:. . .there is no esoteric religion in the USA...Anon:<BR/><BR/><I>. . .there is no esoteric religion in the USA. Humungous amounts of self-serving exoteric religiosity but no esoteric practice(s).</I><BR/><BR/>Which is as it should be-- mind you, I speak here as someone quite familiar with several flavors of esoteric. And one of the key elements that keeps it useful is that it needs to be sought after-- it cannot be handed to one on a platter. The Exoteric is necessary for the beginning of the journey and, in my experience, are also useful in keeping the Esoteric Student from going off the Deep End (which I have seen many a time).<BR/><BR/>The other thing to keep in mind is that that which makes a thing esoteric is, by it's nature, less accessible to most people than the more basic, exoteric stuff. As with any subject of study-- take cooking. Most people can manage toasting bread, boiling pasta, and making a sandwich. Baking a souffle, on the other hand, is done by far fewer. And preparing non-toxic pufferfish is done by the least.<BR/><BR/>As with cooking, I do not lament that the esoteric is so rare, any more than I lament that safe pufferfish is so rare. <BR/><BR/>Consider, too, that perhaps a thing is esoteric because it is naturally rare, and not rare because it's esoteric.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-56084374516455870512007-07-19T07:56:00.000-07:002007-07-19T07:56:00.000-07:00Wish I hadn't missed today, in a similar boat as S...Wish I hadn't missed today, in a similar boat as Smoov's, luckily no lawyers though (no offense Joseph), and I'll add my Me Too to what he said.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-74564520602025500332007-07-19T07:52:00.000-07:002007-07-19T07:52:00.000-07:00Easily, Dougman - it would be a world filled with ...Easily, Dougman - it would be a world filled with people killing in the name of envy, and it would be a much worse place.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-58571188598414741152007-07-19T05:46:00.000-07:002007-07-19T05:46:00.000-07:00"People slaughtering each other holus bolus becaus..."<I>People slaughtering each other holus bolus because of different ideas of "truth"...</I>"-Anon<BR/><BR/>Can you picture the world today without all of the killing in the name of G_d?<BR/><BR/>I'm completly serious here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-68880465716029738202007-07-19T04:31:00.000-07:002007-07-19T04:31:00.000-07:00Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj:When I see I am nothing.....<I>Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj:</I><BR/><BR/>When I see I am nothing...that is wisdom.<BR/><BR/>When I see I am everything...that is love.<BR/><BR/>And between those two, my life moves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-63665058017723536212007-07-19T03:40:00.000-07:002007-07-19T03:40:00.000-07:00It would seem to me that the composite consciousne...It would seem to me that the composite consciousness defined in today's OC is a somewhat different concept than the "consciousness" which Ken Wilber and Andrew Cohen talk about. Their "consciousness" seems to be a primary field and even act as a substrate that enables and sets the scope for all the functions of mind, but itself depends on nothing except the universal field of consciousness. In short, their "consciousness" is something like what the Bible calls spirit. (From my limited experience they may well be identical.)Magnus Itlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18445902788427523461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-75876257056501573022007-07-19T02:00:00.000-07:002007-07-19T02:00:00.000-07:00Alan, Most if not all of the horrors of western hi...Alan, <BR/>Most if not all of the horrors of western history have been perpetrated by true believers of one kind or another, whether so called religious or atheist.<BR/><BR/>Look at the post Reformation religious wars of Europe. People slaughtering each other holus bolus because of different ideas of "truth" rattling around in their brain.<BR/><BR/>I was not in any way arguing that there is no such "thing" as Reality, Truth and the Beautiful. With a capital R,T & B.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-67483362588582169572007-07-18T22:59:00.000-07:002007-07-18T22:59:00.000-07:00ximeze:Exactly my point. The atheists and the doct...ximeze:<BR/><BR/>Exactly my point. The atheists and the doctrinaire fundamentalists are making the same mistake - assuming that Scripture = Logos. Or, to be more exact, that the Scripture is the <I>totality</I> of the Logos. What about the Unscripted, the things left implied rather than explicitly stated? Is there no further meaning to be drawn out of the words? You go too far in one direction, you get the dismissal of biblical stories as "fairy tales about talking snakes"; in the other direction, you get the <I>nothing must <B>ever</B> be changed, and there is no interpreting to be done because everything that needed to be said is in the book</I> attitude that devout Muslims have toward the Koran.<BR/><BR/>The difference is this. Which set of assumptions are we asked to believe - that the Scripture was divinely inspired, or that it was supposedly <I>dictated</I>? There is a world of difference between the two possible ranges of responses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-77484309951425977512007-07-18T22:34:00.000-07:002007-07-18T22:34:00.000-07:00Anonymous said: Some kind of dreadfully "righteous...Anonymous said: Some kind of dreadfully "righteous" applied politics is lurking in the shadows---the applied politics of "total truth" by those who presume to possess the "truth"<BR/><BR/>What greater claim of truth than by the founders...<BR/><BR/>"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."<BR/><BR/>You cannot separate truth claims from politics - except in some bizarro world. The question is the accuracy of the truth claims.<BR/><BR/>We in western civilization have truly been taught stupid - as anonymous' writing exemplifies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-64367446871287871462007-07-18T22:29:00.000-07:002007-07-18T22:29:00.000-07:00Anon:WHO, exactly, "would like to turn the USA int...Anon:<BR/>WHO, exactly, "would like to turn the USA into a theocratic state"<BR/><BR/>Have you been reading HuffinNpissed?<BR/><BR/>Is your thinking as convolute(d) as your comment reads?<BR/><BR/>Just askinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-17348689165648418512007-07-18T22:19:00.000-07:002007-07-18T22:19:00.000-07:00Nomo said: "I'm probably about as fundy as it gets...Nomo said: "I'm probably about as fundy as it gets around here", operative part: gets around HERE.<BR/><BR/>Dude, you must be hangin with believers of a 'higher quality' than some I've had occasion to try to discuss these things with. I'm wondering if it's not just a question of 'capacity'. Some people just seem to need rigid/inflexable single-meanings, or are currently unable to UNPACK the Logos very much. Logos translates as Word, so that must mean the word(s), small-case, that we see written (ie Scripture). <BR/><BR/>The concept that the Logos is much more than words, as we know them, seems confusing. I've gotten lots of 'circle-the-wagons' behavior in response. Fear, fear, fear. Daddy-God might get angry! Don't go there! And they inevitably trot-out social grooming stuff too: see, we inside the circle all agree with each other, so it must be true!<BR/><BR/>What drives me nuts is the patting each other on the back for it & reinforcing the group cohesion over any effort to actually unpack anything.<BR/><BR/>Gosh, can you tell it's a pet-peeve?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-54188115945506882022007-07-18T22:00:00.000-07:002007-07-18T22:00:00.000-07:00Regarding the realization of unity via an active s...Regarding the realization of unity via an active spiritual life.<BR/><BR/>Doesnt that involve engaging religion as a transformative esoteric process?<BR/><BR/>The truth is, that with extremely rare, exception there is no esoteric religion in the USA. Humungous amounts of self-serving exoteric religiosity but no esoteric practice(s). Such is in fact taboo. Alan Watts wrote a marvellous book on this taboo.<BR/><BR/>Also regarding Berlinski and his fellow ID proponents. They attempt to "prove" the existence of God by pointing to the complex patterns of cellular life---implying that only a "creator" could possibly be responsible for such complexity. <BR/><BR/>Never mind that all biological forms disintegrate and die and that the vast unexplainable Cosmic process is completely indifferent to the survival or even the well-being of any and every thing.<BR/><BR/>Where is even the reason for "hope" in all of that, let alone a "proof" that God exists.<BR/><BR/>Also to ask the question "does god exist?" is to affirm the negative proposition that God does not exist. Such a question is only asked by those to whom the existence of God is in doubt. If God were obvious the question would not even arise.<BR/><BR/>And what about the "creator" god proposed by the ID crowd? The concept of the "creator" is entirely dualistic in its nature and reductionist in its effects at the level of culture.It is the product of a "mind" that is already divorced from the Indivisible Unity of Existence-Being --- a mind which is, by self definition, thoroughly godless. <BR/><BR/>It also implies that the "creator" is outside of the Cosmic Unity. Which is of course both absurd and impossible.<BR/><BR/>My advice would be to flee from anyone who writes a book with the title The Devils Delusion. Some kind of dreadfully "righteous" applied politics is lurking in the shadows---the applied politics of "total truth" by those who presume to possess the "truth". <BR/><BR/>Especially when the said person(s) have very direct associations with groups that would like to turn the USA into a theocratic state.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-35859270965726001152007-07-18T21:08:00.000-07:002007-07-18T21:08:00.000-07:00Jacob C - I'm probably about as fundy as it gets a...Jacob C - I'm probably about as fundy as it gets around here, and I don't know any believers who don't seek a right interpretation of the Bible. That includes careful consideration of all the beauty and nuances of language, context, history, metaphor, figures of speech, etc. Anyone who reveres revelation, has a heart for God, and who longs for Truth, however lacking they may be in their interpretation, beats the atheist any time, hands down.<BR/><BR/>I don't worship the Bible - far from it - but I do love it for the way it feeds and grows my spirit and moves me closer to God.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-45266519470486158002007-07-18T17:27:00.000-07:002007-07-18T17:27:00.000-07:00Yes, along those lines, this book looks promising....Yes, along those lines, <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0307396266/103-0073253-5764633?ie=UTF8&tag=onecosmos-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=0307396266" REL="nofollow">this</A> book looks promising.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-52638742651094581132007-07-18T17:13:00.000-07:002007-07-18T17:13:00.000-07:00What kills me about the atheist perception of the ...What kills me about the atheist perception of the Bible is that it's EXACTLY the same as the doctrinaire-fundamentalist interpretation. Both parties read only the text, not the subtext; one sees ridiculous stories about talking snakes and guys coming back from the dead, where the other sees rules and regulations and history set in stone. In both cases, the dimension of <I>metaphor</I> is not present. The atheist and the fundamentalist alike see the words on the page as something that is supposed to be taken for literal truth; one rejects it and the other accepts it blindly, both either without awareness or in complete denial that there is anything between (or beneath) the lines.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com