tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post3427589210049733418..comments2024-03-28T12:10:26.197-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Atheists and Other Whine ExpertsGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-25233201400910909752008-10-14T18:49:00.000-07:002008-10-14T18:49:00.000-07:00Upon making the following assertion we encounter a...Upon making the following assertion we encounter an interesting bout of atheist circular-illogic: “billions of human beings have personally experienced the Divine, whereas atheism is an absurdity that makes no sense to all but a few cranks and misfits.”<BR/><BR/>The response would be that any of the billions who claim to have had personally experienced the Divine are not only much, much less well informed than the atheist but are either lying, mistaken, self-deluded, hallucinating or ___________ (fill in the blank). However, the only way that one could know that those millions were in error would be to presuppose that the Divine does not exist. Ergo, one argument may go thusly, “The Divine does not exists and we can know that because no one has ever experienced the Divine and no one has ever experienced the Divine because the Divine does not exist.”<BR/><BR/>aDios,<BR/>MarianoKenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16478151742674353783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-66167387400221579952008-10-06T14:37:00.000-07:002008-10-06T14:37:00.000-07:00I believe the researchers of the so-called "perenn...I believe the researchers of the so-called "perennial wisdom" are applying a commendably scientific approach to religion, in that they are systematically gathering observations from different places and times to see which elements are recurring, and view them from different angles to get a better picture.<BR/><BR/>However, it is my impression that the spiritual science is nascent at best. We have no tools, and in truth much of what we try to see is more like dim stars than the sun. Unless gifted with a peculiarly sharp sight, we need to leave the well-lit city and observe from remote places, and there is as of yet no equivalent of the telescope that I can think of.Magnus Itlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18445902788427523461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-61954023931000067432008-10-06T14:26:00.000-07:002008-10-06T14:26:00.000-07:00It sounds like you need more tinfoil in your hat B...It sounds like you need more tinfoil in your hat Bob.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-50804106116086317162008-10-06T12:48:00.000-07:002008-10-06T12:48:00.000-07:00Oh, and hello to you also, Magnus!Oh, and hello to you also, Magnus!CrypticLifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05313033952671292402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-38362632067882748172008-10-06T12:47:00.000-07:002008-10-06T12:47:00.000-07:00"But this knowledge does not have much effect on o..."But this knowledge does not have much effect on our daily experience with the sun, and it has no effect whatsoever on the sun itself."<BR/><BR/>Well, it could have an effect on our experience with the sun; for example, we don't fear solar eclipses or view cloudy days as bad omens (except for beachgoers).<BR/><BR/>An ancient may or may not have done these things. How literally they took the stories is indeed a question, but I'd keep in mind that at least some today believe in healing by prayer to such an extent that their children die from medical neglect, and it's standard RC doctrine that the Eucharist literally turns into the flesh and blood of Christ. These kinds of beliefs are probably as outlandish as the idea that superfauna carries a lump of gold across the sky. <BR/><BR/>You're right that the scientific explanation is only partially explanative. It gives an (correct) explanation, for example, for why the sun rises and sets, but not for the origins of all stars. <BR/><BR/>What you seem to be suggesting is that for spiritual science to progress one would need to directly observe the divine. I don't think that's been convincingly done.CrypticLifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05313033952671292402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-76421050448385662112008-10-06T10:44:00.000-07:002008-10-06T10:44:00.000-07:00Among other reasons, I know it because it would be...<I>Among other reasons, I know it because it would be absurd to deny the testimony of thousands of enologists who have trained themselves to make subtle discriminations in the realm of wine.</I><BR/><BR/>You keep using that word. <A HREF="http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2007/11/the_subjectivity_of_wine.php?source=rss_feed" REL="nofollow">I do not think it means what you think it means</A>.Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-845434957910242662008-10-06T08:18:00.000-07:002008-10-06T08:18:00.000-07:00Hello again CrypticLife!My point was actually the ...Hello again CrypticLife!<BR/>My point was actually the difference between observation and explanation. Lately, we know a lot more about the sun than our ancestors did. (Although it is uncertain how literally they took the stories about the sun being drawn across the sky by glorified members of the local fauna.) We know today that the sunshine comes from nuclear fusion, something our remote ancestors could not possibly know. But this knowledge does not have much effect on our daily experience with the sun, and it has no effect whatsoever on the sun itself.<BR/><BR/>I would rejoice of we made as much progress in spiritual science as we have done in material science. It would not do away with God, quite the opposite, only with the superstitions around God. But coming up with theories without observation is a bad idea, whether in cosmology or theology.Magnus Itlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18445902788427523461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-15991038778120333822008-10-06T08:13:00.000-07:002008-10-06T08:13:00.000-07:00Hmm, God runs everything. All so called Illuminati...Hmm, God runs everything. All so called Illuminati are impostors. I'm sure the guys who mangled Maximus the Confessor thought they were hot shit. Who's laughing now? That's the way it goes with the folks that think they are illuminati, go to secret meetings, connect with the world mind, make big plans. They die just like everyone else. <BR/><BR/>The real 'illuminati' are the Children of Light, the Remnant, whatever. Look in the Synaxarion, for one. Everyone else thinks if they come up with a plan to rival God's (think: Babel) they are gods. Wait, isn't that what happened in the Garden?<BR/><BR/>I could go on. Conspiracy mongering is false on the first account: It doesn't matter for what matters. Those who are wrapped up in the material world and its passions will be forever shaken by those who have worldly power or who think they do. For the Illuminated, there is only one power. In that way, your enemies could spend 1000 years building a system to brainwash everyone, and you could, by grace, undo all of their plans in a minute.<BR/><BR/>Read Psalm 2...Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-24362133102066017802008-10-06T08:00:00.000-07:002008-10-06T08:00:00.000-07:00"It is a bit like saying that the sun was invented..."It is a bit like saying that the sun was invented to explain the sunshine. In a sense it is true, but it is in a very dumb and pointless sense. After all, the sun would shine even if everyone attributed the sunshine to a really big swarm of fireflies. It is merely our concepts that change over time."<BR/><BR/>And in that case, the big swarm of fireflies would indeed have been invented. Just as Apollo in his golden chariot was invented.<BR/><BR/>"I am an Atheist because the universe makes perfect sense to me without putting God in the equation."<BR/><BR/>This is likewise incorrect. It does not actually matter if the universe makes perfect sense to you, as that falls right back into the trap of invoking a deity for anything that doesn't seem to make sense. It's not about whether particular facts make sense, it's about whether the idea of a deity makes sense.CrypticLifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05313033952671292402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-36794212539980010952008-10-06T01:10:00.000-07:002008-10-06T01:10:00.000-07:00"If I were to object and tell them that they are f..."If I were to object and tell them that they are fooling themselves and that there is no empirical proof that one wine is any better than another, they would properly regard me as a gustatory moron."<BR/><BR/>2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-20504933633227549482008-10-06T00:39:00.000-07:002008-10-06T00:39:00.000-07:00"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in..."Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)<BR/><BR/>My favorite definition... as it either admits of god, or not, depending on your attitude towards 'evidence', etc.<BR/><BR/>Whether new age is sstanic, I would say depends on whether powers or ideas other than the UnityOneGod are actually being worshipped. Judaism measures 'avoda zara' by 'bowing down' to other gods or powers-that-be; 'Satan' is a much subtler concept (whose subtlety was largely lost in translation to Christianity).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-49779152110536709402008-10-05T19:08:00.000-07:002008-10-05T19:08:00.000-07:00From Julie's link."The Atheon has been made possib...From Julie's link.<BR/><BR/>"The Atheon has been made possible through a generous grant from the University of California, Berkley Chancellor's Community Partnership Fund."<BR/><BR/>Um hm. <BR/><BR/>Aren't there starving children in the world who are a bit more deserving than this, er, project?<BR/><BR/>Oh, but I should leave them alone. Like Mary, they are pouring out the oil of their lunacy on the "feet" of the universe, "doing what they can."Susannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16381272662339466736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-56355510067198669482008-10-05T19:02:00.000-07:002008-10-05T19:02:00.000-07:00I lived just a few miles from the Georgia Guidesto...I lived just a few miles from the Georgia Guidestones for about a decade. If the rumors are to be believed, some mighty weird stuff goes on around there some nights.<BR/><BR/>Could just be teenagers goofing around, though. ;)Susannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16381272662339466736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-48724465785822329272008-10-05T18:42:00.000-07:002008-10-05T18:42:00.000-07:00That proves nothing. Barney Frank is a thrice-cle...That proves nothing. Barney Frank is a thrice-cleared operating thetan and high epopt of the secret illuminati.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-60111478165596608432008-10-05T18:30:00.000-07:002008-10-05T18:30:00.000-07:00JT:There have been many people over the last decad...JT:<BR/>There have been many people over the last decade "who predicted an economic crisis like we've just seen", warned of it & had plans to avoid this whole mess. Just check the Congressional Record or <A HREF="http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4&feature=iv&annotation_id=event_597487" REL="nofollow">this video.</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-91651394943104247412008-10-05T15:05:00.000-07:002008-10-05T15:05:00.000-07:00Does that make me one of the conspirators?That's t...<I>Does that make me one of the conspirators</I>?<BR/><BR/>That's the power of the Protocols.<BR/>You can admit it and be a member or you can deny it and still be a part of it.<BR/><BR/>You gonna make a liar out of Isaiah?Dougmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08468871451814828157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-89709512137145959122008-10-05T14:38:00.000-07:002008-10-05T14:38:00.000-07:00Will - Haven't heard of Wilcox. It came by way of ...Will - Haven't heard of Wilcox. It came by way of Terence McKenna to Jay Weidner to David Icke, all of whom are a bit off in left field each in their own right, BUT if you do a search on say the Georgia Guidestones, these monuments do in fact exist. A sort of new 10 commandments for the future, starting with "Keep the population under 500 million in harmony with nature" or something to that affect. <BR/><BR/>I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that there are some out there in league, consciously or unconsciously, with these NWO ideas. How vast the web is, is a whole other question.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-21526596196396185062008-10-05T14:30:00.000-07:002008-10-05T14:30:00.000-07:00JT - if you're talking about David Wilcock, on...JT - if you're talking about David Wilcock, one of the most "expressive" of the Illuminati conspiracy theorists, he is very pro-Obama. DW thinks Obama is, if not an avatar, at least a clean break from politics as usual. Which I guess is true in a sense, but not in a good way. BTW, Wilcock seems to becoming more anti-Israeli by the day.<BR/><BR/>>>There are some proponents of this theory or conspiracy who predicted an economic crisis like we've just seen<<<BR/><BR/>Yup, and Wilcock posts a lot of stuff that does ring true. The classical heresy is one that rings true for the most part, but due to one fatal flaw or another, ultimately fails; and a flawed mysticism often becomes demonic. <BR/><BR/>>>Some may be in league with dark or demonic forces they do not know or understand<<<BR/><BR/>There it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-7362488838599107572008-10-05T14:25:00.000-07:002008-10-05T14:25:00.000-07:00Just did a quick google search and found this gem:...Just did a quick google search and found <A HREF="http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/" REL="nofollow">this gem</A>:<BR/><BR/>"Most people react with disbelief and skepticism towards the topic, unaware that they have been conditioned (brainwashed) to react with skepticism by institutional and media influences that were created by the Mother of All mind control organizations: The Tavistock Institute of Human Relations in London."<BR/><BR/>Wouldn't you know it, Bion was one of the early members of the Tavistock Institute. Does that make me one of the conspirators?Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-5729916096438363902008-10-05T14:19:00.000-07:002008-10-05T14:19:00.000-07:00But doesn't that one song say..."just because you'...But doesn't that one song say..."just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you!"? : )Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-74600173999224509792008-10-05T14:15:00.000-07:002008-10-05T14:15:00.000-07:00The diagnosis would be delusional disorder of the ...The diagnosis would be delusional disorder of the persecutory type, AKA paranoia.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-29762753257529832882008-10-05T14:12:00.000-07:002008-10-05T14:12:00.000-07:00Bob - What would be the diagnosis? Will - Strangel...Bob - What would be the diagnosis? <BR/><BR/>Will - Strangely enough, most of what I came across lately believe that both parties are involved. Not all politicians, of course, but a hand full are in there trying to forward this NWO agenda. Even if it isn't true on a conscious level, couldn't it be true on a subconscious level or spiritual level? Some may be in league with dark or demonic forces they do not know or understand. <BR/><BR/>There are some proponents of this theory or conspiracy who predicted an economic crisis like we've just seen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-76573076779807219272008-10-05T13:39:00.000-07:002008-10-05T13:39:00.000-07:00JT - most of the "Illuminati" conspiracy mongerers...JT - most of the "Illuminati" conspiracy mongerers - all pro-Obama - veer toward an anti-Israeli, anti-semeticism.<BR/><BR/>If you want an indication that the demonic is afoot, that would be it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-89389460387465709322008-10-05T13:31:00.000-07:002008-10-05T13:31:00.000-07:00Re: the Santa Ana Cubs: Not to take a thing away f...Re: the Santa Ana Cubs: Not to take a thing away from the excellent Dodgers, but dominant, destiny-bound teams - as the Cubs proclaimed themselves to be from the beginning of the season to the playoffs - rise to the occasion. Somehow the Cubs always manage to stock themselves with anti-Mannys, anti-Reggies, guys who when the big money is on the line, wilt away like flowers in a frost. <BR/><BR/>Concept for story - a bunch of Cub fans, gone insane from perennial Cub futility, decide the only way out is for the Cubs to start all over, from virtual scratch. Thus they devise a plot to blow Wrigley Field to atoms with a low-yield nuke (after issuing fair warning to the 'hood), assuring that a new stadium will be built elsewhere. Suspense and hilarity ensue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-52040102104501741412008-10-05T13:00:00.000-07:002008-10-05T13:00:00.000-07:00It's an entertaining card game. I like to play as ...It's an entertaining card game. I like to play as the UFOs - nobody knows what their objective is (mwuh ha ha!)<BR/><BR/>Off on another tangent (yes, I have too much time on my hands today, why do you ask?), is it just me or did the guy who came up with <A HREF="http://www.the-brights.net/" REL="nofollow">this movement</A> relate a little too closely to Mojo Jojo? Also, I get the distinct impression it plays to the same group of people who loudly declare their Mensa membership.<BR/><BR/>Then there's <A HREF="http://www.magnes.org/atheon/" REL="nofollow">this</A> place. Seems like just the thing for Ray.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.com