tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post3197524612939286025..comments2024-03-29T06:03:45.545-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Memos to Mysoph on Knowledge and BeingGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-90563879897471787102008-06-14T10:14:00.000-07:002008-06-14T10:14:00.000-07:00Storm-Rider said "Also, I believe there are two ki...Storm-Rider said "Also, I believe there are two kinds of atheists..."<BR/><BR/>Agreed. I usually put them down to Atheists by conviction, and incidental atheists. The first is usually driven by some past real or perceived wrong and/or a denial of any such thing as good and evil, right and wrong - of the existence of Truth.<BR/><BR/>The incidental atheist, grasps and understands the existence of and importance of Truth and of aligning yourself with it, but has been put off by a surface level presentation of 'talking snake stories' which he sees as obviously false, and dismisses any need for further investigation. That's where I came from.<BR/><BR/>The first is aTruth and so atheist, the later grasps and values what is at the heart of Theism, and is only 'atheist' due to an incidental, or poetically challenged, misreading of its portal.<BR/><BR/>There can of course be mixtures of the two, but I think that defines them.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-89630496734354129572008-06-14T07:41:00.000-07:002008-06-14T07:41:00.000-07:00"To turn this formulation around, what it means ip..."To turn this formulation around, what it means ipso facto is that the atheist does not know himself"<BR/><BR/>I would say the atheist may not know his entire self. Also, I believe there are two kinds of atheists. There are, I believe, some atheists who deny God's existence yet paradoxically have Gods Spirit living within. Then there are atheists who don't just deny God's existence - they hate God - they are theophobic. <BR/><BR/>Igor Shafarevich had a good insight into this, and to the political consequences of theophobia.<BR/><BR/>“it is certainly true that socialism is hostile to religion. But is it possible to understand it as a consequence of atheism? Hardly, at least if we understand atheism as it is usually defined: as the loss of religious feeling. It is not clear just how such a negative concept can become the stimulus for an active attitude toward the world (its destruction or alteration) or how it can be the source of the infectiousness of socialist doctrines. Furthermore, socialism's attitude toward religion does not at all resemble the indifferent and skeptical position of someone who has lost interest in religion. The term "atheism" is inappropriate for the description of people in the grip of socialist doctrines. It would be more correct to speak here not of "atheists" but of "God-haters," not of "atheism" but of "theophobia."" Igor Shafarevich<BR/><BR/>http://www.robertlstephens.com/essays/shafarevich/001SocialistPhenomenon.html<BR/><BR/>http://freebooks.entrewave.com/freebooks/docs/a_pdfs/newslet/preface/03pref.pdfStorm-Riderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11131489587771186846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-57258993756244723372008-06-13T08:11:00.000-07:002008-06-13T08:11:00.000-07:00I had a friend who claimed his whole theology was,...I had a friend who claimed his whole theology was, "We're either all going to heaven or we ain't!" Which I took to mean there is so little difference between the best and worst of us in the cosmic scheme that there is NO ploy, sacred or profane which changes the picture. I suspect he is right, and so forgiveness and grace trump faith and works.<BR/><BR/>My mother was a Unity Minister (not Unitarian/Universalist) and she agreed with me that the best possible arrangement for justice on Planet Earth is Reincarnation. A just God would have to include it the way the world works. Some Gnostics agreed on this point. But far from Revealed Truth, this is just a matter of preference. From this point of view we all EVENTUALLY do arrive.<BR/><BR/>But then, "Can't I go NOW, Dad?" The answer..."Soon. The change comes like a thief in the knight!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-84131387578178108922008-06-13T07:49:00.000-07:002008-06-13T07:49:00.000-07:00Since you mention that Dawkins thing, there was a ...Since you mention that Dawkins thing, there was a <A HREF="http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/networks/radio4/aod.shtml?radio4/moralmaze" REL="nofollow">debate on science and religion on BBC radio 4</A> which I found teeth-grindingly frustrating. Thought I might share it here. The BBC are often frustrating in the way they handle these things. It's often more about the jolly game of 'impartially' and dumbly antagonizing interviewees than it is about truth, because they're secular and multicultural enough to not really believe in truth. There's a Dawkins-like atheist scientist on it as the first witness, just so bent over and shrivelled up with contempt for the 'mad' beleivers. Slightly comical. We can smash up reality into tiny parts and put them in tubes then science can explain everything.Chloe Cumminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03647179583231406538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-54902900752939798922008-06-13T07:21:00.000-07:002008-06-13T07:21:00.000-07:00Smoov,I think you posted them on "And God Said, "L...Smoov,<BR/>I think you posted them on "And God Said, "Let There be Atheists!"<BR/><BR/>Umm... not to skip over the substance of what you said, but... "$45,000 for 6 billable days for the guy that did Visa-level security for us last week -- 27 years old"... <BR/>so your saying... when that guy told me in '98... you ought to focus on security, that'll be big... I made a boo-boo sticking with web?<BR/><BR/>Yikes.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-20701623761125905022008-06-13T00:25:00.000-07:002008-06-13T00:25:00.000-07:00Gagdad bob,He's passionate which works in his favo...Gagdad bob,<BR/><BR/>He's passionate which works in his favor. Think about youself in 1980.<BR/><BR/>Anthony Flew has come around belatedly.Stephen Macdonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13474300559219020772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-35771221018762433202008-06-13T00:23:00.000-07:002008-06-13T00:23:00.000-07:00Either I did something wrong, or else blogsot just...Either I did something wrong, or else blogsot just ate several of my posts... <BR/><BR/>Testing...Stephen Macdonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13474300559219020772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-79008262198078162502008-06-12T23:19:00.000-07:002008-06-12T23:19:00.000-07:00Van: Pickiness doesn't have the negative feel for ...Van: Pickiness doesn't have the negative feel for those aspiring.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-91901710630585857622008-06-12T21:52:00.000-07:002008-06-12T21:52:00.000-07:00GB - Wouldn't he have to be both?GB - Wouldn't he have to be both?NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-78198390163984590642008-06-12T21:51:00.000-07:002008-06-12T21:51:00.000-07:00Julie - I suspected as much. Just needed to make a...Julie - I suspected as much. Just needed to make a statement about universalism (which I, like everyone, WISH were true).NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-63302208422458453372008-06-12T21:49:00.000-07:002008-06-12T21:49:00.000-07:00Here is a debate between Richard Dawkins and a dec...Here is a <A HREF="http://www.dawkinslennoxdebate.com/" REL="nofollow">debate</A> between Richard Dawkins and a decent theologian on "The God Delusion." I genuinely had no idea of the extent of Dawkins' intellectual shallowness. Is he just dishonest, or really that ignorant?Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-27830477382661246042008-06-12T21:42:00.000-07:002008-06-12T21:42:00.000-07:00It is GOOD that HE is in control.That is my comfor...It is GOOD that <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%208:28-30;&version=49" REL="nofollow">HE is in control</A>.<BR/><BR/>That is my comfort.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-72250904646772843992008-06-12T21:41:00.000-07:002008-06-12T21:41:00.000-07:00Nomo,There was a lot more to the MotT quote that I...Nomo,<BR/><BR/>There was a <I>lot</I> more to the MotT quote that I didn't include (and I'm in no state at the moment to look it up). The gist of it included the fact that hell is real, and eternal. And horrible beyond comprehension. Personally, I hope and pray that I never have to find out.<BR/><BR/>Who gets to decide what to throw out and what to keep? Simple - He who <I>is</I> the rules. I think, if you were to see the rest of the quote in context, you might find that it in no way casts the scripture to the wind; certainly not as I read it.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-82628605797729881162008-06-12T21:24:00.000-07:002008-06-12T21:24:00.000-07:00Julie - Sadly, there is lot of scripture you have ...Julie - Sadly, there is lot of scripture you have to cast to the wind to go down that road. Who gets to decide what to throw out and what to keep?<BR/><BR/>Not me.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-34180470769141278002008-06-12T19:09:00.000-07:002008-06-12T19:09:00.000-07:00Chris said: The Universalist side of Unitarian Uni...Chris said: <I>The Universalist side of Unitarian Universalists</I><BR/><BR/>"For just as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive," so it is written and so it shall be. <BR/><BR/>"so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow -- of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth -- and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father"<BR/><BR/>I don't know about unitarian but I am very sympathetic to Univeralism -- too much George MacDonald and Hannah Whitehall Smith in my sadly misspent youth.mushroomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07651027035577798096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-39969193749906624202008-06-12T18:17:00.000-07:002008-06-12T18:17:00.000-07:00For VDH fans on Booktv this weekend:In Defense of ...For VDH fans on Booktv this weekend:<BR/><BR/>In Defense of Liberty <BR/>Victor Davis Hanson<BR/><BR/>Saturday, June 14, at 9:00 PM<BR/>Sunday, June 15, at 3:00 PM Monday, June 16, at 7:00 AM Sunday, June 22, at 5:00 AM Friday, July 4, at 9:45 AM<BR/> <BR/><BR/>Victor Davis Hanson argues that the U.S. is in danger of losing the ideals of the Enlightenment due to our own lack of willingness to fight for them. The lecture was hosted by the Heritage Foundation in Washington, DC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-71912519819009928572008-06-12T16:40:00.000-07:002008-06-12T16:40:00.000-07:00Quoting the Cosmobliteration without even being to...Quoting the Cosmobliteration without even being told. One indulgence for you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-36563218949263263142008-06-12T16:26:00.000-07:002008-06-12T16:26:00.000-07:00Christopher, I was just reading this passage today...Christopher, I was just reading this passage today (courtesy of our Unknown Friend):<BR/><BR/>"...Origen himself knew with certain knowledge that there would be no "damned" at the end of the world and that the devil, also, would be saved. And whoever meditates on the sweat of of blood in Gethsemane and on the words "It is I" (or "I am he"), announcing the eternal victory over the eternal hell, also will know with certain knowledge that eternal hell <I>exists</I> as a reality, but that it will be <I>empty</I> at the end of time."<BR/><BR/>Or, more succinctly put in the Coonifesto,<BR/><BR/>"Sheol is out, summa vacation in the pneumatosphere."<BR/><BR/>For there to be a summa vacation, we must first do our time in the school room; but ultimately, all that is O's will return to O. Personally, I take great comfort in that fact.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-35922891991857580902008-06-12T15:55:00.000-07:002008-06-12T15:55:00.000-07:00How come we are so outnumbered? Knowing this truth...How come we are so outnumbered? Knowing this truth, this perennial ongoing in every culture truth, why then cannot we reach back and bring the trolls along? Mahayana claims ultimately they will come and he who helps this, refusing to depart until we all do, Bodhisattva! My hero! <BR/><BR/>The Universalist side of Unitarian Universalists claim that we ultimately all go to God because God insists on it. God is Bodhisattva. This would be Aristotle's Final Cause, and in Jardin's thinking the Omega point.<BR/><BR/>As an old hippie (who quit every psychedelic in 1972 and even booze in 1983) I have been yanking on the come along for a while now, not long in the cosmic scheme, but most of my life nonetheless.<BR/><BR/>However I am buried among the philistines, at work and in my service, my service not unlike being a Forensic Psychologist. In my service I am a "self employed substance abuse counselor" as I heard it described of a partner in service who died recently. This gave me quite a laugh.<BR/><BR/>This is why I am enjoying the ride here. I feel like many of you KNOW some stuff here. <BR/><BR/>When I am among the others, I don't even try for gnosis. Love is far more effective there. Thus we begin with resentment and the antidote, forgiveness. Compassion compassion compassion. You can't teach a drunk sober. Sometimes you can love him sober, so long as love is ironclad stable and constantly flexible. Then they might possibly become civilized or at least quit being soul criminals.<BR/><BR/>After 25 years of this experience I have begun to realize how deep the hole actually is! So the idea of God's Saving Grace is essential, so long as I remember it is the whole of creation and not just Man singled out. We are just other bozos on the bus...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-33533413174726297172008-06-12T15:19:00.000-07:002008-06-12T15:19:00.000-07:00Alan, no problem. It was more than a touch picky o...Alan, no problem. It was more than a touch picky of me, but my bud's the Greeks get hammered alot, so I stick up for them here and there.<BR/><BR/>;-)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-20198211620588142612008-06-12T13:50:00.000-07:002008-06-12T13:50:00.000-07:00van - thanks for the improvement/correction.van - thanks for the improvement/correction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-63359361599008775832008-06-12T12:13:00.000-07:002008-06-12T12:13:00.000-07:00That'll do Donkey, that'll do!;-)That'll do Donkey, <I>that'll do!</I><BR/><BR/>;-)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-91860397693903167542008-06-12T12:11:00.000-07:002008-06-12T12:11:00.000-07:00Alan said... "Dallas Willard, noteable christian s...Alan said... "Dallas Willard, noteable christian scholar, says that to know something is to have an interactive relationship with it."<BR/><BR/>(Aristotle beat him to it. No real point in sayin'... just sayin')Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-77724011302634912642008-06-12T12:02:00.000-07:002008-06-12T12:02:00.000-07:00Cakes have layers.Parfait! Everybody likes parfai...Cakes have layers.<BR/><BR/>Parfait! Everybody likes parfait.mushroomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07651027035577798096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-46818215846048085012008-06-12T11:45:00.000-07:002008-06-12T11:45:00.000-07:00Thank you, sir, may I please have another!Thank you, sir, may I please have another!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com