tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post3179533289166309736..comments2024-03-27T11:16:36.951-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: This is Your Captain Speaking: Return Your Seat of Consciousness to its Upright PositionGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-29601664988142460872010-12-12T23:27:49.506-08:002010-12-12T23:27:49.506-08:00Thanks Van! Sometimes a good right cross on the ch...Thanks Van! Sometimes a good right cross on the chin really opens my ayes. :^)USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-74578038936203504562010-12-10T09:56:06.835-08:002010-12-10T09:56:06.835-08:00Van said... "How does one get themselves that...Van said... "How does one get themselves that way?" <br /><br />Many things come to mind. "The way is narrow that leads to life and wide that leads to destruction." And all the other references of it in the Bible. "What good is it if a man gains the world but loses his soul?" <br /><br />Any turn to Positivism yields a plank in the gears. Even if it gets into your perspective without any actual change in beliefs. <br /><br />Re Postivism... Certain "truth enzymes" can boost immunity from infection. If you've never heard of Positivism and you meet someone who lives according to that mentality, certain things can be enticing. There can be a seduction.<br /><br />It can even be due to a decision made out expediency, or a compromise. <br /><br />Sin does it too, and it doesn't even have to be a blatant one. <br /><br />This quote came to mind, as well:<br /><br />"[A wasp] was sucking jam on my plate, and I cut him in half. He paid no attention, merely went on with his meal, while a tiny stream of jam trickled out of his severed esophagus. Only when he tried to fly away did he grasp the dreadful thing that had happened to him." <br /><br />— George Orwell<br /><br />--<br /><br />Also, Bob's story about the temporary suspension of grace on a person (in the post that mentioned "It's a Wonderful Life") and then the repouring out comes to mind, too. If it weren't for the grace in which we move, we would all be sticks in the mud.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-73894924404434997462010-12-10T05:25:29.497-08:002010-12-10T05:25:29.497-08:00Ben said "IOW's they chose, as all fallen...Ben said "IOW's they chose, as all fallen men chose ever since, to return to slavery because their was no mystery about it. <b>There is no faith or trust required of men in hell.</b>"<br /><br />Nailed it like a true Chin Fu master.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-80424055025905530682010-12-10T01:46:08.842-08:002010-12-10T01:46:08.842-08:00"Instead of laying around waiting for a mirac..."Instead of laying around waiting for a miracle, we understand that the miracle has already occurred, and that our paralysis is self-willed, self-enclosed, and self-perpetuating. <br /><br />But we cannot undo the paralysis with our own will only. Rather, we can only willfully participate in the saving miracle."<br /><br />That sure does resOnate with me. <br />While one can be free regardless of one's physical health (including physical paralyses), one can never be free while spiritually paralysed.<br /><br />It bears repeating that self imposed spiritual paralyses (a slave to sin) is like the Jews who wished to return to Egypt as slaves after Moses delivered them.<br /><br />All because they didn't know how they were gonna survive or what was gonna happen next despite witnessing the power of God and His love for them.<br /><br />IOW's they chose, as all fallen men chose ever since, to return to slavery because their was no mystery about it. There is no faith or trust required of men in hell.<br />Better the devil we know than the God we don't gno. Sound familiar?<br /><br />As opposed to a journey to the promised land and freedom, which requires faith and trust in God, and mystery and yes, not knowing everything...however, having an opportunity to always gno more.<br /><br />It seems like such a no brainer. I used to marvel at the stupidity of the Jews that wanted to return to Egypt, even laugh at the rediculousness of that choice. But how many times have I chosen to head back to Egypt? More times than I care to count, I'm ashamed to say.<br /><br />Self imposed indeed. But it doesn't hafta be that way. Like an addict (to anything sinful) the first step is to recognize the sins. <br /><br />The second is to be so sick n' tired of it (rock bottom) that the sinner (me) chooses Life, Love, Beauty, Justice, Goodness, Truth...God, and surrenders in order to be free of the chains of sin. <br /><br />'Cause jest knowin' ain't enough. You gotsta make a choice and act, rise up, walk, run...and be.<br /><br />Great post Bob! Thanks!USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-82414444794358989832010-12-10T01:02:15.083-08:002010-12-10T01:02:15.083-08:00If you're between a rock and a hard place, ris...If you're between a rock and a hard place, rise to the Rock.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-83573578860294554152010-12-09T18:18:00.529-08:002010-12-09T18:18:00.529-08:00I am reminded of Vanderleun's essay on the Sta...I am reminded of Vanderleun's essay on the Star: "the mystery is the Gift."<br /><br />It is a gift to the those of us who need to know and to those of us who demand to know, and to those of us who simply know that the mystery is what there is to know. <br /><br />To know the mystery and appreciate its unknowableness . . . ah, there is a thing to contemplate!Joan of Argghh!https://www.blogger.com/profile/14729682908266300507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-36285209891579203992010-12-09T16:36:15.822-08:002010-12-09T16:36:15.822-08:00I ask God's forgiveness for my harsh words; th...I ask God's forgiveness for my harsh words; they slipped past my better judgement and you have admonished justly me for the slip, which I appreciate.<br /><br />Trust. I trust Him and I work for Him. I exist for Him. I serve Him.<br /><br />It's my brethren that concern me; them who suffer. But I should learn to relax and release them into the arms of Jesus. <br /><br />It is not I who have to be concerned with that which is not my burden. They are looked after by better than me.<br /><br />I don't understand why life has to be hard, even for the committed believer, but then I don't need to understand. If I trust and serve, all will be well.Open Trenchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354412002318534131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-68902168709097079192010-12-09T16:21:41.990-08:002010-12-09T16:21:41.990-08:00JP said "I see we are going to spend some tim...JP said "I see we are going to spend some time playing everyone's favorite OC game: "Missing the Point." <br /><br />:-)<br /><br />Gagdad said "... or in Dupree's immortal words, "never butt heads with a butthead.""<br /><br />;-D<br /><br />Never... such a long word.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-66876289198317221902010-12-09T16:17:31.709-08:002010-12-09T16:17:31.709-08:00grant said "We are tormented by a desire to k...grant said "We are tormented by a desire to know what we cannot, and anxiety over a question "What will happen next?" that we cannot answer."<br /><br />Speak for yourself (and re-read Aristotle's quote above).<br /><br />"God, whom I know exists and with whom I have had some limited intercourse with, has some 'splaining to do. Doncha think? Or does He skate on this rap because He made it all and lots of it is good?"<br /><br />No, I don't. Assuming there is a God (and that being a conclusion which you must arrive at, is the most brilliant stroke of all), I think it's a brilliant creation, and I wouldn't change it. What would be the good of having answers given us? They could only be given us in the way we are given to know that ice is cold and tea is hot... and just about as mentally and spiritually fulfilling.<br /><br />An answer which we haven't arrived at, is mere perceived fact, not conceived and understood knowledge... the knowledge we are able to attain, is an achievement and a fulfilling realization which makes life worth living and enjoying.<br /><br />To be given the answers as flat perceptions... would be like being condemned to riding a roller coaster for eternity.<br /><br />Yuck.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-31604269139896841192010-12-09T15:45:58.477-08:002010-12-09T15:45:58.477-08:00... or in Dupree's immortal words, "never...... or in Dupree's immortal words, "never butt heads with a butthead."Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-36213959781339478162010-12-09T15:33:53.066-08:002010-12-09T15:33:53.066-08:00God doesn't exist for us, we exist for Him.
...God doesn't exist for us, we exist for Him. <br /><br />Also, a lot of the anxiety people feel from not knowing stuff is from sin, the fall, etc... <br /><br />God has to explain because there is stuff we don't know? First, He has explained it. And second, the process of discovery is a process of love anyway.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-13304455136186639512010-12-09T15:09:59.797-08:002010-12-09T15:09:59.797-08:00Heh - I just uncovered a post-it note stuck to my ...Heh - I just uncovered a post-it note stuck to my computer with a note to self quoting Bob a couple of weeks back. <br /><br />Seems apropos here. <br /><br />Ahem.<br /><br />"Never argue with the other guy's content when his container is so messed up."juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-48656522146551141352010-12-09T14:56:27.001-08:002010-12-09T14:56:27.001-08:00I see we are going to spend some time playing ever...I see we are going to spend some time playing everyone's favorite OC game: "Missing the Point."JPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126071014909954387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-54919757209087455532010-12-09T14:47:56.067-08:002010-12-09T14:47:56.067-08:00Mushroom:
Good one! Your answer was appreciated,...Mushroom:<br /><br />Good one! Your answer was appreciated, and understood as a serious response. <br /><br />Van: You wrote "Those three axioms form the base and barrier of our ability to perceive and conceive of reality, there is no getting beneath or beyond them... "<br /><br />There you have it. You have identified the predicament we are in. <br /><br />We as human beings want to know stuff. It is hard to concede, "I don't know" and even harder to concede "I can't know."<br /><br />This just goads the human psyche into further effort to understand everything. Look at our blog author. He's at it daily. He does not tolerate unexplored mystery very well. None of us do.<br /><br />So this where our God has positioned us, on a torture rack or a cross. Or an amusement park ride. We are tormented by a desire to know what we cannot, and anxiety over a question "What will happen next?" that we cannot answer.<br /><br />God, whom I know exists and with whom I have had some limited intercourse with, has some 'splaining to do. Doncha think? Or does He skate on this rap because He made it all and lots of it is good?<br /><br />I'm not that great at getting through, though. I was counting on Bob. <br /><br />Yes, God made us, but we as his children can still bring Him up on charges of neglect or abuse. That is our right. <br /><br />He expects it of us, probably. That's all I was trying to say. Someone has to get His attention and ask, "Say what? Whatchoo doin' wit us, dog?"Open Trenchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354412002318534131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-54302175668398800992010-12-09T14:39:30.614-08:002010-12-09T14:39:30.614-08:00Saying "Who created God?" is putting cre...Saying "Who created God?" is putting creating as the highest or most consistent point, when isn't it Being? Who IS God is a better question. (And of course, the answer is: I AM.)Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-91327912469838842602010-12-09T14:33:39.012-08:002010-12-09T14:33:39.012-08:00What about: who created God?
--nObody--
Creatin...What about: who created God?<br /><br />--nObody--<br /><br />Creating is God's thing. <br /><br />And, not coming from anything else, is kind of defacto part of His defintional Identity. Yes? <br /><br />Axioms exist. Quite amazing how powerful God is. We are relative, He is not. He is absolute, but can relate within Himself and His beings in His image...<br /><br />I'm rambling.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-29716950264517555262010-12-09T14:26:21.596-08:002010-12-09T14:26:21.596-08:00(cont)
What's worse, you can't prove even...(cont)<br /><br />What's worse, you can't <i>prove</i> even a one of them, they are beyond proof, and attempting to do so involves you in an unending circularity (hmmm). They are self-evident truths which, as Axioms, cannot be proved, and must simply be accepted - period - like it or not - they are simply the necessary self evident prerequisites of being able to prove anything at all. <br /><br />In order to say anything at all; to even attempt to deny any one or more of them, is to engage in using each - all words, ideas and thoughts rely upon them, even denying any of them, requires the use of each of them - which is why the liar burns so bad, he can't construct even the thinnest lie, without relying upon reality and what is True, in order to tell it.<br /><br />Those three axioms form the base and barrier of our ability to perceive and conceive of reality, there is no getting beneath or beyond them... there is no possible way for us to reduce the three to two, or one, or none.<br /><br />Before asking 'who made God', how about you first try figuring out where <i>they</i> came from? Why do <i>they</i> exist? If we can't deal with those three unexplainables which we can see staring us right in the face, how can you possibly move on to the One we can't see, that of the Big Kahuna and 'who created' him?<br /><br />It makes you look kinda dopey trying to knock on that third floor door while you're still confined to the lobby.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-34414809786823350342010-12-09T14:25:57.850-08:002010-12-09T14:25:57.850-08:00grant said "Who created God?...But what is th...grant said "Who created God?...But what is the source of the source? JP simply reframes the same inquiry. That does not suffice." <br /><br />Everyone always goes for the big Kahuna... but that's cheating... like trying to knock on the Administrator's 3rd floor door, while still standing inside the lobby.<br /><br />Here's something written just for you a couple thousand years ago, from "On Metaphysics(<a href="http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/metaphysics.4.iv.html" rel="nofollow">Book IV</a>)"<br />".<i>.. for not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education.</i> "<br /><br />Before you can even contemplate the mystery of "Who created God" (!), you've got several even more annoying hurdles to deal with. First you've got to admit that there's a reason to, that is, only because it's possible that you could be wrong or you could be right, it becomes worthwhile trying to find out which one it is (if either), and in so doing you admit that Truth is, which should be simple enough, unless you're corroded through with skepticism... and if so... why bother (except to torment the unsuspecting) going any further?<br /><br />But having done that and entered into the realm of the Human, you then first (?) have to realize and admit (explicitly or implicitly) that there <i>is something</i> which exists... otherwise nothing would be there for you to consider... and neither would you. <i>Then</i> (?) you've got to admit that there is a distinction between all of the some things which aren't nothings, including yourself, and that because you can distinguish them, they (and you) have identity and are identifiable... within a given context. <i>Then</i> (?) you have to admit that you are considering these things, and can only do so <i>because</i> you are conscious, and because you are conscious, <i>you can't help</i> doing so, in one form or another... you can't be conscious without being conscious of existence and those things which you can identify existence as existing as.<br /> <br />Untangling that a tad, you're left with the annoyance of these three axioms, in no particular order (one can't really be said to come before the other)... which are at the root of all you can even begin to think about, and not one of which can even be considered, without also using, including and involving the other two in the consideration:<br /><br />*Reality - Reality exists<br />*Identity - What exists, exists as something<br />*Consciousness - Consciousness attains awareness only through identifying what that which exists, exists as.<br />(arghh... break)Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-55599992120343584562010-12-09T14:16:42.877-08:002010-12-09T14:16:42.877-08:00Strictly logically speaking, just because some thi...Strictly logically speaking, just because some things are created, doesn't mean everything is. Or should I say (e)Verything... ?Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-65496681055174373912010-12-09T14:09:54.606-08:002010-12-09T14:09:54.606-08:00GM:
God wasn't created. God is.
God does ...GM:<br /><br />God wasn't created. God is. <br /><br />God does the (primary) creating.<br /><br />It's one of the features in the cosmos.<br /><br />You're asking a nonsensical question.<br /><br />Or you're trying to make two and two equal five. <br /><br />I'm not sure which you are trying to accomplish.<br /><br />You also might be trying to assert something along the lines of:<br /><br />"This sentence is false."JPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126071014909954387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-65070214620651416222010-12-09T13:48:07.365-08:002010-12-09T13:48:07.365-08:00Well, and obviously, stallin' and Joseph S. ....Well, and obviously, stallin' and Joseph S. ...Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-19120556879635167272010-12-09T13:44:46.388-08:002010-12-09T13:44:46.388-08:00Okay, wv sometimes makes me lurch and laugh.
wv...Okay, wv sometimes makes me lurch and laugh. <br /><br />wv: stalin<br /><br />Too much! <br /><br />(Notice that the word "stale" is in there, too. Which is also the first word in stalemate.)Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-75097758050151175622010-12-09T12:27:33.310-08:002010-12-09T12:27:33.310-08:00The source is the source
of course, of course
unle...The source is the source<br />of course, of course<br />unless of course <br />the name of the Source<br />is the famous Mr. O'ed<br /><br />****<br />And that, btw, is a serious answer.mushroomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07651027035577798096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-35288244565783100392010-12-09T11:56:34.968-08:002010-12-09T11:56:34.968-08:00JP thought the question of who created God was inv...JP thought the question of who created God was invalid, because God is defined as the source of creation. Duh.<br /><br />But what is the source of the source? JP simply reframes the same inquiry. That does not suffice. <br /><br />Rick answers with a different question, loaded with a moral. A sound debating tactic but it does not address the question.<br /><br />I would say the answer is that we don't know. That does not sit well in the craw. So....<br /><br />The next question in the series is, "Can we find out who created God?"<br /><br />The answer to that is most likely no.<br /><br />And there the matter stops and sinks like a lead pipe to the bottom of a pond.<br /><br />The Butler did it, of course. Get a Clue.Open Trenchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354412002318534131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-38938853380501827912010-12-09T11:25:23.580-08:002010-12-09T11:25:23.580-08:00self-willed vertical exile, that represents the qu...<i>self-willed vertical exile, that represents the quintessence of sin</i><br /><br />Jesus often asked people He healed variants of "do you believe", but I think the man at the pool is the only person He ever asked, "Do you want to get well?" -- Or as the KJV so memorably puts it, "Wilt thou be made whole?"<br /><br />Can't say He didn't give him a choice.mushroomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07651027035577798096noreply@blogger.com