tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post2994833775579019938..comments2024-03-29T06:03:45.545-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Evolutionary Creationism (7.24.11)Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger135125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-40874245176788736082021-11-01T09:38:52.535-07:002021-11-01T09:38:52.535-07:00I have read your article, it is very informative a...I have read your article, it is very informative and helpful for me. I admire the valuable information you offer in your articles. Thanks for posting it.<br />I have read your article, it is very informative and helpful for me. I admire the valuable information you offer in your articles. Thanks for posting it.<br />Pescohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14649763818442526873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-41006926306504755642021-05-28T20:14:10.531-07:002021-05-28T20:14:10.531-07:00Thanks for Sharing, Very informative post! Also Vi...Thanks for Sharing, Very informative post! Also Visit<br /><a href="https://pescobill.pk/lesco-bill" rel="nofollow">https://pescobill.pk/lesco-bill</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10898066339699613508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-16696222695738591982021-04-20T20:29:27.399-07:002021-04-20T20:29:27.399-07:00Thanks for sharing this useful information.
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The gulls on either end of the ring are so different that they can't interbreed. The only reason they are considered to be the same species is the existence of the intermediates that they <I>can</I> interbreed with. If there's an 'archetype' that governs species, then the boundaries between them in the real world are fuzzy, and can be crossed.<BR/><BR/>Once you understand that, the <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_mammalian_auditory_ossicles" REL="nofollow">transitions</A> in the fossil record <A HREF="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html#morphological_intermediates_ex2" REL="nofollow">leap out at you</A>.Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-34955346099191875922008-07-31T10:33:00.000-07:002008-07-31T10:33:00.000-07:00Ray--I freely admit I'm not the sharpest tack in t...Ray--<BR/><BR/>I freely admit I'm not the sharpest tack in this bunch, but I still don't understand the point you were trying to make by linking to gulls, slightly different gulls, and even more slightly different gulls. So?Susannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16381272662339466736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-63801360232787587192008-07-31T09:57:00.000-07:002008-07-31T09:57:00.000-07:00Ray says:"Erasmus - You could call my model "evolu...Ray says:<BR/><BR/>"Erasmus - You could call my model "evolution" if you like, assuming we're talking specifically about biological complexity."<BR/><BR/>I was looking for more of a metaphysical model that would make a good "slogan". Beyond "biological complexity". I'll review your website (FAQ) at some point and we can try again. No time today.jphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908157207748014622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-21981770108703081262008-07-31T08:29:00.000-07:002008-07-31T08:29:00.000-07:00River - I don't assume all y'all think "evolutiona...River - I don't assume <I>all</I> y'all think "evolutionary ideas challenge religious ones fundamentally or that we're here trying to bitterly dismantle the inevitable", but, well, I do see some of that.<BR/><BR/>(I also think that <I>some</I> of the conflicts y'all <I>do</I> see - and yes, there are some - aren't actually conflicts, but different ways of looking at the same thing.)Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-14104385698954860422008-07-31T07:32:00.000-07:002008-07-31T07:32:00.000-07:00Nomo: In truth, there is no hard and fast distinct...Nomo: In truth, there is no hard and fast distinction between the miraculous and natural law. Both are a result of the action of the will of God. Why they seem so different to us - is not entirely clear. I think it is perhaps that there are regular phenomena and irregular phenomena. Chronos and Kairos if you will. It is important to dissect and know the regular phenomena, for they are mathematical in language. But it is also important to be aware and in awe of the irregular phenomena, for they are are more.. artistic in language. Thus the total order is neither symmetric (like some neo-Platonists seem to like to believe) nor irregular (as some post modernists might have it) but rather a fruitful tension between the two - like Music.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-34913558046248083082008-07-31T07:30:00.000-07:002008-07-31T07:30:00.000-07:00At the end of his account, John wrote, "Jesus did ...At the end of his account, John wrote, "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."<BR/><BR/>I can't wait to someday get into the REAL library.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-4082055174162979262008-07-31T07:03:00.000-07:002008-07-31T07:03:00.000-07:00As to why miracles? I'm partial to this answer.Fur...As to why miracles? I'm partial to this <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2019:37-38;&version=72" REL="nofollow">answer</A>.<BR/><BR/>Further, aren't true miracles out-of-the-ordinary direct and divine interventions in the world? The parting of the Red Sea, Jesus walking on water, the resurrection of Lazarus, etc. Some certainly view them as a violation of the natural order of physical laws, while others maintain that they are a natural manifestation of God's work.<BR/><BR/>Ini the Book, miracles are also known as powers and signs (Mark 9:39; Acts 2:22, 19:11) and mighty works (John 10:25-28). They are a manifestation of the power of God over nature (Joshua 10:121-14), animals (Num. 22:28), people (Gen. 19:26), and illness (2 Kings 5:1014). They are produced by God's power (Acts 15:12), Christ's power (Matt. 10:1), and the Holy Spirit's power (Matt. 12:28).<BR/><BR/>Anyway, that's the story in the Book - and it seems to be stickin' to it.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-515192965120894282008-07-31T06:53:00.000-07:002008-07-31T06:53:00.000-07:00River,in fact there is mention of the occasional t...River,<BR/>in fact there is mention of the occasional town where the disbelief was so strong that Jesus did few if any miracles. And when his opponents demanded signs, he promised to give them none, except for the sign of Jonah. Ever after his death and resurrection, there is no hint of him stopping by Caiaphas of Pilate to say "Hey bub, betcha didn't expect to see me again!". Well, he might, but I think we would have known somehow.Magnus Itlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18445902788427523461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-55737154693251459482008-07-31T06:39:00.000-07:002008-07-31T06:39:00.000-07:00Ray: It's a matter of explanation. To some people,...Ray: It's a matter of explanation. To some people, your explanations are like the epicycles of the geocentric theory. You would say, "Look, great explanation, makes sense!" Someone else looks at it and says, "Um, doesn't seem like it to me." Just because the math 'works' doesn't make it right.<BR/><BR/>You may need to first set aside the assumption that evolutionary ideas challenge religious ones fundamentally or that we're here trying to bitterly dismantle the inevitable, the religious fundies that we are. <BR/><BR/>Those two set aside, consider that like Kepler, we have looked at it and are not convinced. It is unsurprising that two people would see the same evidence and come to different conclusions. Happens all day, every day.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-88996843121780563422008-07-31T06:36:00.000-07:002008-07-31T06:36:00.000-07:00Erasmus - You could call my model "evolution" if y...Erasmus - You could call my model "evolution" if you like, assuming we're talking specifically about biological complexity.Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-73319934400946384542008-07-31T06:34:00.000-07:002008-07-31T06:34:00.000-07:00Magnus, those miracles occurred because - perhaps ...Magnus, those miracles occurred because - perhaps one might say - the people would see them and understand they were acts of God. People today 'know too much' (i.e. think they do) to accept a real miracle. But God never ceases working the power of his love through all things.Ephrem Antony Grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032465992619034619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-33109227122252501312008-07-31T06:30:00.000-07:002008-07-31T06:30:00.000-07:00Hi Julie!Babbazee has been using hopium for severa...Hi Julie!<BR/>Babbazee has been using hopium for several months, at least.<BR/>Usually like this:<BR/><BR/>"Hopium for the asses(TM)." Ha ha! <BR/>I love that line.<BR/>(TM in parentheses may appear closer than it actually is).USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-4054542873834717032008-07-31T06:24:00.000-07:002008-07-31T06:24:00.000-07:00Slim: If'n there weren't people sayin' things I kn...Slim: If'n there weren't people sayin' things I <I>know</I> ain't so, 'cause I seen 'em, I'd kindly be more inclined to take their word for it on the other stuff. But when these over-edjimicated types tell me a steer <I>cain't</I> live off o' just feed & water, it's <I>gotta</I> be chowin' on some meat somewhere, well, pull the other one.Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-66348989051084802052008-07-31T06:17:00.000-07:002008-07-31T06:17:00.000-07:00River - Re: species, you make my point for me. Tha...River - Re: species, you make my point for me. Thanks! :-> As to the Uncarved Block, I'll refer you back to Bob's discussion of <A HREF="http://onecosmos.blogspot.com/2008/05/fetal-attraction-of-unborn-self.html" REL="nofollow">'attractors' in phase space</A>. Some systems, it doesn't matter what "preconceptions" you pre-load them with; they converge on the same state over time.<BR/><BR/>As to "men on the moon" - that's <I>exactly</I> what 'irreducible complexity' is supposed to be. Again, I'm not aware of any cases that have held up to actual analysis.<BR/><BR/>Van - The point of that link was that, if'n you don't like reading, you can watch the <A HREF="http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=322750" REL="nofollow">show</A>.Ray Ingleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290483120987779339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-61549097236259852582008-07-31T05:55:00.000-07:002008-07-31T05:55:00.000-07:00Mr Kepler,A couple of things aligned I think with ...Mr Kepler,<BR/><BR/>A couple of things aligned I think with most of what you say, before I have to scoot to work:<BR/><BR/>As I mentioned to Bob about a year ago, I was changed physically round about 27 Jan 2007. There is no question in my mind about it.<BR/><BR/>RE Ray or those like him and the $3,800, I have no doubt that he will have no problem believing that story. Except the part about it being a miracle. This would be against his “religion”, so I don’t blame him. He’s just doing what he set out to do. As you and the rest of us know, there is no way any of us can talk him out of it. As much as I get frustrated with the guy, I wouldn’t have it any other way. When it happens, he’ll know. And he will be changed. Stand back when it happens.<BR/><BR/>RE the “process”, when God follows it, maybe even a completely connected evolution, this too is a gift to us, maybe more of one to the scientist as he needs it more than others. If he wants to find the science behind the miracle, God has it there for him, and proportioned to him. Like Bob, finding out how it is doesn’t matter so much to me any more. Not as much as that it is. Spending even the small amount of time on the vertical that I have, I’ve found the gifts are greater.<BR/><BR/>RE change, miracles and proportion, I think God will not appear to me as a burning bush in any literal sense (now I’ve done it) because I get the sense we both know I couldn’t handle that much reality in one sitting. I would change too much. I would have to. Besides, that level of impact is not necessary (for me) to reveal the larger Reality. He seems to keep it juuuust under obvious. Or at least He used to...Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-2982973906508425902008-07-31T05:47:00.000-07:002008-07-31T05:47:00.000-07:00Ah, I see Magnus already said it.Ah, I see Magnus already said it.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.com