tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post2384512391828108346..comments2024-03-28T12:10:26.197-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Multiculturalism would be Unanimous if it Weren't for Your Damn Tribe of Individuals!Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger154125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-23755152254587998002013-12-09T06:38:58.769-08:002013-12-09T06:38:58.769-08:00I think he lacks the vertibra to look up.I think he lacks the vertibra to look up.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-4097182103701074752013-12-09T06:27:24.248-08:002013-12-09T06:27:24.248-08:00"When lost in a forest go always down hill. ..."When lost in a forest go always down hill. When lost in a philosophy or doctrine go upward.” --Ambrose BierceGagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-31625428538813246512013-12-09T05:51:00.768-08:002013-12-09T05:51:00.768-08:00zzzzzzzzzzzzz said "You just cited an encyclo...<br />zzzzzzzzzzzzz said "You just cited an encyclopedia article on Wallace,"<br /><br />You fixated on Wallace, you made a claim about his being something I didn't say he was, but I found a reference which did say what I didn't. You've been spazzing on that ever since.<br /><br />I also included some other names in that list, including Martin Luther King being a republican, for some reason you've had little to say about that.<br /><br />Was Dr. King on the left or the right?<br /><br />'States Rights' was a corruption of rights (States don't have Rights, they have powers, to seriously (as opposed to a casual shorthand comment) claim otherwise undermines all rights, Property Rights in particular), that was advanced by made by southern Democrats. <br /><br />If you'd read my posts you'd be aware of that. Instead you want to continue avoiding the issue.<br /><br />Pansy.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-21212088735352078622013-12-09T05:37:30.853-08:002013-12-09T05:37:30.853-08:00Van Harvey: Not interested in Wallace
You just c...<b>Van Harvey</b>: <i>Not interested in Wallace </i><br /><br />You just cited an encyclopedia article on Wallace, and the use of the word "liberal" in scare-quotes. <br /><br /><b>Van Harvey</b>: <i>Are ' conservative Democrats' on the left, or the right? </i><br /><br />Conservatives are on the political right. However, people can have liberal or centrist views on some issues, while conservative views on others. <br /><br /><b>Van Harvey</b>: <i>Are 'conservatives', democrat & republican, who sought to conserve segregation and racism, to be generally referred to as 'conservatives', right along with those conservatives who seek to conserve liberty through the rule of law as formed under the Constitution and its amendments? </i><br /><br />Conservatives who supported segregation, indeed, claimed they were seeking to "conserve liberty through rule of law as formed under the Constitution and its amendments". They called it states's right, and believed the federal government, including the judiciary, was intruding beyond its allocated powers.<br />Zachrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16081260898264733380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-49496277013286477102013-12-09T05:32:08.623-08:002013-12-09T05:32:08.623-08:00Not interested in Wallace, interested in how you g...Not interested in Wallace, interested in how you generalize your generalizations that are rooted on 'general ussage' rather than reality.<br /><br />Are ' conservative Democrats' on the left, or the right?<br /><br />Are 'conservatives', democrat & republican, who sought to conserve segregation and racism, to be generally referred to as 'conservatives', right along with those conservatives who seek to conserve liberty through the rule of law as formed under the Constitution and its amendments?<br /><br />Are both those 'conservatives', those seeking to conserve the restriction of liberties for some people (which effectively eliminates Rights and Liberty as such), and those seeking to conserve Liberty through laws which uphold Individual Rights, on the Left, or the Right?<br /><br />Why?Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-76978813320063489212013-12-09T05:08:56.770-08:002013-12-09T05:08:56.770-08:00Van Harvey: what is it that makes your interpretat...<b>Van Harvey</b>: <i>what is it that makes your interpretation of general usage, more valid than the Encyclopedia of Alabama's general usage? </i><br /><br />We discussed this above. Note that they used scare-quotes around the word liberal. That implies they were using the word in a non-orthodox manner. <br /><br />Wallace was more liberal on many social policies. However, as the website explained, he took the conservative position on the most important issue of the day, segregation, and tacked hard to the right as the civil rights movement heated up. Take a look at the bibliography: Carter, Dan T. The Politics of Rage: George Wallace, The Origins of the New Conservatism. <br /><br />Your own citation doesn't support your position. According to your source, Wallace received conservative support, and allied with conservatives generally. "The Citizens Council, John Birch Society, and other conservative groups joined blue-collar whites in financing the American Independent Party... The next day, Wallace won 39 percent of the vote in Maryland and 51 percent of the vote in Michigan, as conservative Democrats registered their opposition to busing and concerns over crime."<br />Zachrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16081260898264733380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-61832361774879603512013-12-08T18:27:12.855-08:002013-12-08T18:27:12.855-08:00zatnominalist said "Words are defined by gene...zatnominalist said "Words are defined by general usage."<br /><br />So, just for fun, with words being defined by general usage, rather than by what it is they refer to, what is it that makes your interpretation of general usage, more valid than the Encyclopedia of Alabama's general usage? <br /><br />,and with,<br /><br />"We also provided a speech by a segregationist politician blaming leftist liberals for their advocacy of integration."<br /><br />, which general usage is left of which? And how is that general position generally determined to be used?<br /><br />Webster's linguisti-poll-ictionary?<br />Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-27548411072134641292013-12-08T13:51:46.843-08:002013-12-08T13:51:46.843-08:00zatzallfolks said "For whatever reason, Gagda...zatzallfolks said "For whatever reason, Gagdad Bob and Van Harvey don't seem able to defe..."<br /><br />Little boy, listen up. You are arguing for a position we've long ago determined to be of no worth. To back up your beliefs you are offering up 'experts' who believe as you do, however, as we've determined that that position has little or no reference to reality, the fact that many 'respected' people maintain it, is of little or no interest or value.<br /><br />Gagdad & I have both taken a stab at pointing out what you are missing, you refuse to even consider it. I accept your decision, but I have no interest in playing along as if it has some merit to it. Your faith in your l & r definitions do not relate to the reality it claims to describe. It is valueless, less than worthless, it actually detracts from the sum of possible understanding. <br /><br />On top of that, it is boring.<br /><br />You are in the position of a Ptolemaic enthusiast explaining the wondrous new epicycle concocted to explain the latest degree of retrograde motion which the previous epicycles couldn't account for.<br /><br />We tell you the earth is revolving around the sun, and you counter with lists of experts who explain that it does not and how their epicycles are the absolute latest and greatest in spiffiness. <br /><br />You are truly Pro-Regressive. You can choose to be if you want to be, but I'm not interested in helping you to do so.<br /><br />If you'd like to pursue the matter with either Gagdad or myself, luckily for you, we already have. <br /><br />See the little search box at the top of the blog? Type "Liberal Fascism" into it, and on Gagdad's page you're going to get a gazillion hits of posts explaining in detail the reasons for the position, and in the comments section you'll find all of us debating the matter with the fools who've preceded you over the years here, with the same pointless 'points'. <br /><br />Type "Liberal Fascism" into the search box on my blog, and you'll get fewer hits, but lengthy historical and philosophical references & links to the information and arguments explaining my position in detail, as well as more than a few debates in the comment sections with others who also raised the same points as you, and were answered in detail.<br /><br />If you have an interest, go do that, but you and your 'points' are invalid, typical, boring, and of no interest. <br /><br />Scat.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-43230842081600579112013-12-08T12:57:10.339-08:002013-12-08T12:57:10.339-08:00Which is why the European "right" has so...Which is why the European "right" has so little in common with the American "right." As long as you remain in a two-dimensional world, you won't get it. Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-19044886708121047992013-12-08T12:54:21.256-08:002013-12-08T12:54:21.256-08:00Limited government constitutional conservatives ar...Limited government constitutional conservatives are at antipodes to both left and right. Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-22353262713763288532013-12-08T11:55:03.644-08:002013-12-08T11:55:03.644-08:00zithiyal said "Gagdad Bob: Non sense."
...zithiyal said "Gagdad Bob: Non sense."<br /><br />Again with the inability to even pay attention to the comments you're commenting on... no wonder everything else seems so far beyond your grasp.<br /><br />Let's see... family's all sitting around reading and surfin'... a perfect time to read. But what'll I read, hmmm, there's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/184465267X/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1" rel="nofollow">"Musical Structure of Plato's Dialogues"</a>, or <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Freedom-English-Speaking-Peoples-Modern/dp/0062231731/?tag=widgetsamazon-20" rel="nofollow">Inventing Freedom</a>, or <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Norms-Nobility-A-Treatise-Education/dp/0761814671" rel="nofollow">"Norms and Nobility: A Treatise on Education"</a>, or maybe I should waste some more time on the nominalistic zacweeall.<br /><br />Hmmm... decisions, decisions. I know, let's play a game: "♫♪♬... One of these things are not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong ♬♪♫..."<br /><br />Uh-oh, bad news zeigheil, you didn't make the cut, but here's a consolation prize that I wrote a few years ago <a href="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/2010/02/what-do-you-say-to-people-who-say-tea.html" rel="nofollow">just for you </a>, that might help you with those meaninglost labels you've got stuck all over the place. Pay especial attention around the Bridge & Scott cases. Even you might notice something.<br /><br />In the meantime, I've still got a decision to make....Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-77088364940137528292013-12-08T11:51:10.203-08:002013-12-08T11:51:10.203-08:00Absolutely -- explains the madness of Chris Matthe...Absolutely -- explains the madness of <a href="http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/12/in-lunacy-veritas.php" rel="nofollow">Chris Matthews</a>. Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-10118169656248611532013-12-08T11:49:09.020-08:002013-12-08T11:49:09.020-08:00Pretty much; it seems they reserve the right to di...Pretty much; it seems they reserve the right to disavow anyone who puts a plain face on the truth behind the policies they support.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-47490052727206930352013-12-08T11:46:31.801-08:002013-12-08T11:46:31.801-08:00Come to think of it, it has long been a truism tha...Come to think of it, it has long been a truism that from the perspective of the left, anyone who is not on the left is automatically "right," which is how Hitler ended up with that designation. Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-65994286129299615912013-12-08T11:44:26.226-08:002013-12-08T11:44:26.226-08:00Whatever else they are, both Stalin and Hitler are...Whatever else they are, both Stalin and Hitler are at antipodes to American style conservatism. I guess it can only be seen in three dimensions, so it makes no sense to flatlanders of the left. Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-14286831560772800822013-12-08T11:42:00.983-08:002013-12-08T11:42:00.983-08:00Hitler is no doubt to the right of Stalinists, jus...Hitler is no doubt to the right of Stalinists, just as he is to the extreme left of conservatives, who, unlike fascists, want smaller and less intrusive government.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-77460354748436018092013-12-08T11:39:02.119-08:002013-12-08T11:39:02.119-08:00Yes, that's pretty much what UF was discussing...Yes, that's pretty much what UF was discussing...juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-85626570646369010572013-12-08T11:36:49.884-08:002013-12-08T11:36:49.884-08:00Me, heterodox? The word is orthoparadox.Me, heterodox? The word is orthoparadox.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-74652334392350427932013-12-08T11:35:07.474-08:002013-12-08T11:35:07.474-08:00I was just reading this book about genius, of whic...I was just reading this book about genius, of which Goethe said is "something which manifests itself only in contradictions, therefore, could not be comprehended under one idea, still less under one word" -- which goes to orthoparadox and to the impossibility of lower dimensional circles understanding higher dimensional spheres.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-10880082341904769812013-12-08T11:32:06.325-08:002013-12-08T11:32:06.325-08:00Gagdad Bob: Non sense.
Handwaving. We've pro...<b>Gagdad Bob</b>: <i>Non sense. </i><br /><br />Handwaving. We've provided arguments, and supported those arguments. Your position hinges on nothing but the use of heterodox definitions. <br /> <br />The left-right political spectrum is a continuum. Not everyone on the left is a Stalin, just as not everyone on the right is a Hitler. Supporting civil rights, public education, the end of childhood labor, are all positions on the political left. Supporting civil rights, public education, and the end of childhood labor doesn't not make one a Stalin. <br /><br />Is your complaint that government entails coercion?Zachrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16081260898264733380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-26796840171085243332013-12-08T11:25:48.488-08:002013-12-08T11:25:48.488-08:00Now that's eerie - right as you were typing th...Now that's eerie - right as you were typing that, Bob, I was reading about spheres in MotT...juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-80880324870143927072013-12-08T11:23:44.862-08:002013-12-08T11:23:44.862-08:00Can't talk spheres with someone trapped in a c...Can't talk spheres with someone trapped in a circular argument. Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-91234361877960085672013-12-08T11:20:19.055-08:002013-12-08T11:20:19.055-08:00Non sense.Non sense.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-52762325652453150952013-12-08T11:19:33.078-08:002013-12-08T11:19:33.078-08:00Van Harvey: Dr. King placed himself in the republi...<b>Van Harvey</b>: <i>Dr. King placed himself in the republican party.</i><br /><br />Sigh. There were liberals in the Republican Party in those ancient days. And yes, they were called liberals. <br /><br />Dr. King didn't identify with a political party, but gave his full support to the Democratic Party when Goldwater came out against civil rights legislation. <br /><br /><b>Van Harvey</b>: <i>No principles. </i><br /><br />Non sequitur.Zachrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16081260898264733380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-4377549879928138882013-12-08T11:13:10.963-08:002013-12-08T11:13:10.963-08:00zitzitzit said "False dichotomy."
No pr...zitzitzit said "False dichotomy."<br /><br />No principles.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.com