tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post234921319515886226..comments2024-03-28T20:04:20.286-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Obama the Tyrannical Medicine ManGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-75255527584809789982009-08-19T10:08:46.819-07:002009-08-19T10:08:46.819-07:00Julie said...
"the eye of the beholder...&quo...Julie said...<br />"the eye of the beholder..."<br /><br />On the way to work today was thinking of that phrase and how it applies to the material world. To make an air-tight external crib of everything within grasp would take away the opportunity to bring anything to the table. It's the meaning of the things that matters, not the things. <br /><br />When I saw that phrase in the comments (upon checking email at the computer at work), I chimed the bell - "yes!" Concur!Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-66176575057173282662009-08-19T07:22:42.322-07:002009-08-19T07:22:42.322-07:00Hey, good on Ricky Raccoon for actually asking god...Hey, good on Ricky Raccoon for actually asking goddinpotty what he wants.<br /><br />Most of you prefer to make up what he believes and then argue against it.rackbabinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-20745803148521197412009-08-19T05:36:50.921-07:002009-08-19T05:36:50.921-07:00"Liberty is a terrible thing. Clearly, it is ..."Liberty is a terrible thing. Clearly, it is not natural. This is something that those of us who do cherish liberty sometimes fail to understand. In reality, human beings crave security. This is why conservative classical liberalism is always such a tough sell, because it promises you nothing except to protect your liberty."<br /><br />A point worth being made again, from a slightly different angle. James V. Schall has an article on <a href="http://www.firstprinciplesjournal.com/articles.aspx?article=1297&theme=home&loc=b" rel="nofollow">Last Things: Prudence </a>,<br /><br />"Indeed, I cannot be “good” if I do not have all the virtues, including justice and prudence. Justice is not prudence, nor is prudence justice. Each virtue refers to a different aspect of that same reality that takes place in our souls when we do something that reveals what we are in our chosen actions. In real life, no virtue of any sort—justice, courage, temperance, generosity—can be what it is without prudence and justice being present within it. Every act, in other words, is what it is—a courageous act or a generous act—and at the same time, it is potentially at least related to others."<br /><br />With "...reality that takes place in our souls when we do something that reveals what we are in our chosen actions...", he nails it for both points. Liberty, and your response to it, and its requirements, reveals whether you're a Man, or a mere homo sapien. I had a fellow argue with me recently that my concern for Individual Rights, Liberty, Freedom was foolish, that I should take a cue from the Europeans "If you think taking the whole month of July off is bad, then your values are pretty damn screwy". In his mind it was a slam dunk to trade: 'nebulous Rights, for being able to do what you want whenever you want at others expense'.<br /><br />Rights, Virtue, Law... all of it, NONE of it is natural, unless you first choose to become Human, an existence that cannot be sustained without it.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-52282123606522731092009-08-19T03:48:43.471-07:002009-08-19T03:48:43.471-07:00Theodore Dalrymple is a treasure. Unfortunately I...Theodore Dalrymple is a treasure. Unfortunately I think you're right in that a lot of right thinking people have never heard of him.phil ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15486481489355451711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-45064159729750794462009-08-19T03:33:28.041-07:002009-08-19T03:33:28.041-07:00"Liberty is a terrible thing. Clearly, it is ..."Liberty is a terrible thing. Clearly, it is not natural. This is something that those of us who do cherish liberty sometimes fail to understand. In reality, human beings crave security. This is why conservative classical liberalism is always such a tough sell, because it promises you nothing except to protect your liberty."<br /><br />That's an excellent way to put it, Bob. <br />Even at the time of the American Revolution where we had a majority of leaders and would be leaders who wanted liberty, there was still quite a few naysayers that preferred the "security" of slavery to the crown.<br /><br />Perhaps the most well known account of people wanting to give up their liberty is the story of the Exodus.<br />Moses frees the Jews and it doesn't take long before Edward G. Robinson convinces them they need to go back to Egypt (slavery), because at least there they knew what to expect. And to build a golden calf to worship.<br />A twisted security to be sure, but it was tangible to them.<br /><br />The security of God is rooted in liberty and it requires faith because it's not tangible in a material sense. <br />It can also mean many trials by fire, testing, and molding of character which can be very painful. <br /><br />Liberty may mean time in the desert or wilderness and the dreaded dark night of the soul, and not just one night. <br /><br />But without liberty I contend there can be no true and genuine joy or peace of mind. <br />I reckon if one is a rich slave then it will be easy enough to fool yourself into thinking you're joyful, but even the most powerful slaves are stil, in the end, slaves.<br /><br />Liberty can be very traumatic indeed but eventually (it is hoped) one realizes the utter futility of slavery which is a strong illusion of security. Or, rather it is security, but security of not having to make our own choices or to take responsiblity or accountability for them.<br /><br />How nice to be the perpetual child where mommy and daddy tell us everything we must do to get our pudding.<br />That can be appealing. <br /><br />Of course, with liberty you have the potential to make your own pudding and eat it whenever you wish, even before your meat, if you want (although one can argue that blood pudding is actually meat n' pudding, and no I have no idea where I'm going with this).<br /><br />I reckon, in a sense, you hafta be a tough bastard to choose liberty over slavery. A real glutton for punishment. A spiritual masochist, perhaps?!<br /><br />Because unlike most doctors, God ain't gonna say: "you may feel some discomfort."<br /><br />No, God's tellin' you: "this is gonna hurt like hell! But...it'll be worth it. Trust me. Oh, and you might wanna bite on this bullet so you don't chew your tongue off (okay, I probably made up that last sentence. Unless you heard it too, that is).USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-80229335074995746512009-08-18T21:44:00.489-07:002009-08-18T21:44:00.489-07:00Heh - so I've finally been reading 1984, in fi...Heh - so I've finally been reading <i>1984</i>, in fits and starts. I've never read it before. This line jumped out at me a couple minutes ago:<br /><br /><i>On a scarlet-draped platform an orator of the inner Party, a small lean man with disproportionately long arms and a large, bald skull over which a few lank locks straggled, was haranguing the crowd. A little Rumpelstiltskin figure, contorted with hatred, he gripped the neck of the microphone with one hand while the other, enormous at the end of a bony arm, clawed the air menacingly above his head. His voice, made metallic by the amplifiers, boomed forth an endless catalogue of atrocities...</i><br /><br />heh - guess I was channeling Orwell this afternoon ;)juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-48310227763598914262009-08-18T20:15:58.813-07:002009-08-18T20:15:58.813-07:00Back to the original topic of the day,
I think th...Back to the original topic of the day,<br /><br /><i>I think this helps the explain the Obama healthcare hurrycon, in which he is trying to con the public into radical change by hurrying us up beyond all reason, before there is even a 1,000 page bill for no one to read or understand. It's just what the Medicine Man ordered, whatever it turns out to be.</i><br /><br />The <a href="http://docisinblog.com/index.php/2009/08/18/death-panels/" rel="nofollow">other Dr. Bob</a> has some interesting observations about just what the Medicine Man would obliviously order.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-55796188827607189752009-08-18T20:05:41.394-07:002009-08-18T20:05:41.394-07:00Laketrout said "So as soon as you get a job, ...Laketrout said "So as soon as you get a job, you'll move out of the basement?"<br /><br />Heh,<br /><br />Ask not for whom the potty flushes,<br />It flushes for thee -Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-9697686506174316102009-08-18T19:06:53.107-07:002009-08-18T19:06:53.107-07:00Indeed. What is it Godinpotty wants.
What does he ...Indeed. What is it Godinpotty wants.<br />What does he want from us.<br /><br />What do you want Godinpotty?Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-89343357888437809172009-08-18T19:03:16.778-07:002009-08-18T19:03:16.778-07:00> if we all understood it,
> we trolls woul...> if we all understood it, <br />> we trolls would go away.<br /><br />Uh oh. <br /><br />So as soon as you get a job, you'll move out of the basement?laketroutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-46998522189357499592009-08-18T18:37:57.695-07:002009-08-18T18:37:57.695-07:00Stupid Troll,
But I honestly believe Bob could do...Stupid Troll,<br /><br /><i>But I honestly believe Bob could do a wonderful blog on how money is a type of Christ. And I need to understand it, and if we all understood it, we trolls would go away.</i> <br /><br />You personally might go away, but it would do nothing to resolve gp's problem. Part of which (I'm assuming, completely without serious justification) is not just what I was saying earlier but also that we despise many of the things he holds dear. Including his misconception that we should fit some particular mold he has in his mind of how Christians and/ or spiritual people should act. Every troll has his own reason for being annoying.<br /><br />But anyway, to your point. To say that money is a type of Christ is really one of the most basic forms of idolatry. What money really <i>is</i> is immaterial. It is a symbol, and it only holds value inasmuch as it is perceived to have value. It's an extremely <i>useful</i> symbol, to be sure, but it can't grant you salvation. It can't grant you absolution, and it can't give you peace. It doesn't care about you. It won't answer your prayers, even though the sudden acquisition of money may be the <i>means</i> by which certain prayers are answered. That's all it is: a means to an end, and both the means and the end exist purely in the eye of the beholder. It's a shorthand method for expression value, recognized by people who use and exchange it as being less cumbersome than barter and trade (and therefore to everyone's benefit). You can worship it, if you like, replacing Truth and the Absolute with an abstract and contingent tool. Lots of people do. But that wouldn't be particularly wise.<br /><br />"But wait!" you may cry, "Christ is an immaterial symbol, too!"<br /><br />Sure, you can tell yourself that. And as long as you do, you won't know any different.<br /><br />But we do.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-44186118271372862522009-08-18T17:40:10.809-07:002009-08-18T17:40:10.809-07:00Ok, minor embarrassment, sorry to me-link again (i...Ok, minor embarrassment, sorry to me-link again (it was 3 yrs ago), the first previous link began the debate with Deep Thought, but the Distributionism debate was continued with,<br />- <a href="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/2006/10/redistributing-my-thoughts-on-deep.html" rel="nofollow">Redistributing my thoughts on Deep Thought</a><br /> and <br />- <a href="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/2006/10/return-to-deep-thought.html" rel="nofollow">Return to Deep Thought</a>Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-11108388209515495872009-08-18T17:15:30.851-07:002009-08-18T17:15:30.851-07:00BTW, "stupid" is not the same thing as &...BTW, "stupid" is not the same thing as "borderline personality troll". Every time I come across that quasi-lucid writing style the author turns out to be posting from an institution where paper shoes are mandatory.Northern Banditnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-13304166223329231892009-08-18T17:15:15.784-07:002009-08-18T17:15:15.784-07:00Btw, keeping with the blowing my own horn mode, I ...Btw, keeping with the blowing my own horn mode, I put out three posts on 'Spiritual Economics' (wow... 3 yrs ago), which included a mostly polite debate with another blogger who was advancing the Catholic Church's accepted economic policy of Distributionism, which I in no way support.<br />- <a href="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/2006/09/spiritual-economics-part-1.html" rel="nofollow"> * Spiritual Economics 1</a><br />- <a href="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/2006/09/spiritual-economics-part-2.html" rel="nofollow"> * Spiritual Economics 2</a><br />- <a href="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/2006/09/spiritual-economics-part-3.html" rel="nofollow"> * Spiritual Economics 3</a>Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-25671728346835023552009-08-18T17:12:59.076-07:002009-08-18T17:12:59.076-07:00Stupid trolls, apoplectic trolls, trolls with even...Stupid trolls, apoplectic trolls, trolls with even worse hygiene than usual -- we need a Field Guide To The Common Troll to keep it all straight.Northern Banditnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-8167113762086738112009-08-18T17:05:45.929-07:002009-08-18T17:05:45.929-07:00the stupid troll said... "... if we all under...the stupid troll said... "... if we all understood it, we trolls would go away."<br /><br />If you don't understand it by now (assuming you are one of the many who've haunted here for some time), it is because there is some part of it you aren't willing to understand... yet you say you need to understand it.<br /> <br />Gotta be willing to understand, to understand it.<br /><br />Seem to have caught yourselves in a Catch-22... with your cooperation, the truth protects itself.<br /><br />It's not Gagdad who needs to do more, but you (or them, as the case may be).Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-90728821451289415642009-08-18T16:59:14.453-07:002009-08-18T16:59:14.453-07:00My history teacher in high school (Christian schoo...My history teacher in high school (Christian school) put it in terms of a scale - when the freedom side of the bar is high, the security side is low. When the security side is high, the freedom side is low. The levers are responsibility and control - put in responsibility and yield freedom or allow control and gain security. Those are my words; he drew it in the air and narrated it some fashion such as what I wrote.<br /><br />The complexity of money sounds like a smoke screen. If there is a problem in the financial systems, they need to answer to freedom, not the other way around, yes? I've thought it through before, somewhat, but it always sounds like an excuse and not a reason. I have not heard or read a full outline of the argument, and I would like to, but still have a feeling it would come back to the second sentence in this paragraph.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-32389497527037583612009-08-18T16:58:27.944-07:002009-08-18T16:58:27.944-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-57785399635239979692009-08-18T16:57:30.174-07:002009-08-18T16:57:30.174-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-23199149052297049722009-08-18T16:12:17.048-07:002009-08-18T16:12:17.048-07:00And I need to understand it, and if we all underst...And I need to understand it, and if we all understood it, we trolls would go away.The Stupid Trollnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-40882821405125774972009-08-18T16:11:22.296-07:002009-08-18T16:11:22.296-07:00Thanks, Bob and Van. But I honestly believe Bob co...Thanks, Bob and Van. But I honestly believe Bob could do a wonderful blog on how money is a type of Christ.Stupid Trollnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-74905312809122537202009-08-18T16:08:55.856-07:002009-08-18T16:08:55.856-07:00I guess what I'm saying is that control offers...I guess what I'm saying is that control offers its own risk, a much bigger one, something that people who crave security don't mention.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-24649215320669775642009-08-18T16:01:53.924-07:002009-08-18T16:01:53.924-07:00As GB brilliantly observed, "Liberty...is not...As GB brilliantly observed, "Liberty...is not natural."<br /><br />What is natural in a fallen world is "survival of the fittest".<br /><br />"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." (I Cor 2:14)<br /><br />Liberty is only of God. Fallen (natural) man will always ultimately choose survival (security) over liberty. It is his nature.NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-10393791423449277742009-08-18T16:00:23.771-07:002009-08-18T16:00:23.771-07:00katzxy,
Yep... The pendulum is freedom/responsibi...katzxy,<br /><br />Yep... The pendulum is freedom/responsibility v. security/control. Some of my friends think somehow that one can have freedom and security but this is a misnomer and a fallacy. It's technically a seduction. I think Bob or someone delineated what the word seduction means by taking it apart. It was very enlightening. <br /><br />One crazy thought: if a free market involves risk, then what is the quotidian risk of control? That is the question. We're talking about how to deal with reality, not what "sounds good". There is no guarantee, and if there is, then, what is the risk that guarantee would pose, given reality? What happens when a guarantee enters the picture? One thing perhaps is no creativity or innovation. And that is on the positive (missing) side. As far as the negative side (negative side affects present), Van summed it up with the enforcement prospect, or result, rather.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900344453710081874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-77127810364396705302009-08-18T15:23:30.976-07:002009-08-18T15:23:30.976-07:00Dear stupid troll,
Love the name. Sounds like som...Dear stupid troll,<br /><br />Love the name. Sounds like someone just finished Jekyl Island (mixed). Assuming it isn't a fully accurate description of you, you know that what you ask isn't going to fit into a comment.<br /><br />If I may be of assistance, I put up a post last yeat that is much larger than a comment, and does cover the whole ball of wax you ask about, including Locke and more, and you're sure to enjoy the title: <br /><a href="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/2008/10/dehumanism-mystical-world-of-new.html" rel="nofollow">Dehumanism: The Mystical World of the New Atheists</a>,<br />It starts with Science and works it's way up to Free Will, Reason, The intelligence of Reason and the Stupidity of Force, Ethics, Law, Happiness and Religion.<br /><br />It doesn't cover the FED, that'll come at the end of my series on <a href="http://blogodidact.blogspot.com/search/label/Justice" rel="nofollow">Justice</a>, but for now I'll say 14th Amendment Good, 16th-18th, bad, bad news.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.com