tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post117112561258978365..comments2024-03-18T13:34:06.557-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Probing the Now, the Center, the Simple, the Eternal (2.08.09)Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171284655424578932007-02-12T04:50:00.000-08:002007-02-12T04:50:00.000-08:00Joan, Van, and Dymphna-Thanks for the compliment. ...Joan, Van, and Dymphna-<BR/>Thanks for the compliment. <BR/>I had to go back and reread the post you were talking about, because I barely remembered it, ha ha!USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171283612722929512007-02-12T04:33:00.000-08:002007-02-12T04:33:00.000-08:00My dear trout:Of course, I cannot give specific ad...My dear trout:<BR/><BR/>Of course, I cannot give specific advice, but in general I would say of a situation such as yours that it is not so much that the man has become infrahuman as that he has conspired with the woman to allow him to sink beneath his own manhood, thus entirely turning himself inside out and upside down and thereby reversing the divine cosmic order. I say this with all due respect, but only a sick woman would want to be with such a weak and pathetic man, and such a woman is generally desparately in need of a real man in order to transcend herself. Recommended reading: <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1591792576/103-0073253-5764633?ie=UTF8&tag=onecosmos-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=1789&creativeASIN=1591792576" REL="nofollow">The Way of the Superior Man</A>.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171264321788874182007-02-11T23:12:00.000-08:002007-02-11T23:12:00.000-08:00Bob: The trout has now officially gone loco. I'...Bob:<BR/><BR/> The trout has now officially gone loco. I'm have fallen so far into my infra-humanity that I'm consider myself completely outside the pale.<BR/><BR/>I was destroyed by love. I love her, I asked her to marry me, and she said no, and I stuck around anyway, and she let me. <BR/><BR/>And now, there is nothing but the rage. You've been a big help, Bob. Now I know what to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171245660094398212007-02-11T18:01:00.000-08:002007-02-11T18:01:00.000-08:00Glasr,That is one of the most frightening visions ...Glasr,<BR/><BR/>That is one of the most frightening visions I've ever seen. Truly, it scared me. Clearly, Cormon had a vertical a/de-scent when he created Cain. I wonder what being around him during Cain's painting was like?PSGInfinityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09778921507090905909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171234310567313542007-02-11T14:51:00.000-08:002007-02-11T14:51:00.000-08:00Dymphna said..."do we become what we think about? ...Dymphna said..."do we become what we think about? Is that what mind parasits are?"<BR/><BR/>Using my example from above, I think we risk becoming enveloped by what we think about. Bob may have more to say on the mind parasites, but I think in the routine cares of life case, such as concern over the oils, wealth, etc, rather than what they are for, if you don't maintain that proper balance you do run the risk of becoming enveloped within them, and your attention which previously you may have directed straight outwards, now goes a little way, hits the curve of the careball you've been sucked into, and revolves around and around within it.<BR/><BR/>I think you have to keep a proper mental distance and perspective on the 'things' of life, or risk becoming one of them yourself.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171220403830231122007-02-11T11:00:00.000-08:002007-02-11T11:00:00.000-08:00van said--The trick, is not to let either the effo...van said--<BR/><BR/><I>The trick, is not to let either the efforts needed, the wealth created, or its lack, to occupy more relevance in your life than is wise.</I><BR/><BR/>Exactly! That sense of proportion requires a fine balance, though I don't think it's a "trick" so much as it is a learned discipline. <BR/><BR/>I seem to keep returning (not pre-planned) to Christ's story. Remember how annoyed Judas was at the luxurious expense of the oils and ointments used on JC's feet? The money "should" have been spent on the deserving poor, perhaps?<BR/><BR/>van (or bob, or anyone), a question: do we become what we think about? Is that what mind parasits are? Is that the core of cosmic discipline -- slowly eliminating the parasites?Dymphnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11332644582520636279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171219512930734662007-02-11T10:45:00.000-08:002007-02-11T10:45:00.000-08:00Smoov said "People assume that wealth and the spir...Smoov said "People assume that wealth and the spiritual path are incompatible. Bob proves this to be untrue."<BR/><BR/>Yep. I completely agree.<BR/><BR/>"Wealth can be tremendously empowering--and hence a means to true freedom... I have no regrets. Even today I can have our plane ready for me later today if I get a hankering to spend a day in Manhattan, strolling around the MOMA. This does not suck, and it does not interfere with my ability to learn through Bob."<BR/><BR/>I love that!<BR/><BR/>Ladies and Gents, being on the earth and continuing to breathe, requires some effort - no matter how much you OM. If you can channel your creativity into efforts which produce what others value as well, you create surplus wealth for your self - which is what it appears Smoov is doing, and mega kudos to you!<BR/><BR/>The trick, is not to let either the efforts needed, the wealth created, or it's lack, to occupy more relevance in your life than is wise. I tend to see the little and not so little urgent necessities as Balls of attention in my mind, I am aware of them, I keep them spinning and bouncing as needed, and occasionally I will hold one of them and give it more direct attention, but at no time will I enter into it or let it draw me into it, encompassing either myself, my life or those in my life. They are things which require attention, just remember that they can't be allowed to control your attention.<BR/><BR/>BTW, Ben, excellent comment(2/10/2007 06:08:01 PM)!Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171216322646570322007-02-11T09:52:00.000-08:002007-02-11T09:52:00.000-08:00Trout:The fact that you have been in a "relationsh...Trout:<BR/><BR/>The fact that you have been in a "relationship" for ten years without ending it long ago or sacralizing the relationship through marriage is the reflection of some sort of infra-human ideology. What is it? (Whatever it is, it will also keep you from graduating to spiritual manhood.)Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171215362613007122007-02-11T09:36:00.000-08:002007-02-11T09:36:00.000-08:00Bob:The trout's turbulent relationship of ten year...Bob:<BR/><BR/>The trout's turbulent relationship of ten years centers on a feeling of intense rage that rises out of my chest and seizes my throat, almost feeling like a choking hand or the noose of a rope.<BR/><BR/>The feeling is always provoked by an action from the mate that signals de-valuaton or invalidation (refusing to change the station on a car radio, forgetting a date with me, or if she says "you're ridiculous," which is a statement she uses during fights)<BR/><BR/>These provocations/fights get settled, but the rage-ball in my throat is difficult to clear. I cannot speak to my mate, so I then withdraw and wrestle with the rage in private, because there is no safe place to discharge it.<BR/><BR/>Eventually the rage slowly seeps/diffuses into the rest of my system and poisons my well-being. I find myself being passive-agressive or feeling hostile towards the mate, even though the original issues are satisfactorily settled and the relationship should be getting back to normal.<BR/><BR/>The mate, although abrasive, is not willfully abusive, and I'd like to keep her if at all possible.<BR/><BR/>But, I need help. This thing is not getting better.<BR/><BR/>The bouts of rage produce a cumulative unease that is oppressing my spiritual life.<BR/><BR/>I would like the book you spake of. How do I supply you with my mailing address confidentially?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171212631884938822007-02-11T08:50:00.000-08:002007-02-11T08:50:00.000-08:00smoov--I demur. You responded to my notions about ...smoov--<BR/><BR/>I demur. <BR/><BR/>You responded to my notions about spiritual poverty by telling me that you already live among the few who can have their own plane at the ready simply to satisfy a whim to visit a museum. <BR/><BR/>What was your motive in revealing that? I don't understand... <BR/><BR/>The fact that you spend 120 days a year on the road might explain failed relationships in the past? That's quite a vocation --sounds like you've been called to travel.<BR/><BR/>I should have said that my better half left his job voluntarily. It occurred to both of us that even though he was making very good money, he was also spending too much time away from home. Home is a spiritual center, after all...<BR/><BR/>So he left his job, with no prospects of another one immediately in sight. His company was puzzled over his decision, but he gave them three months' notice so as not to cause a disruption in their work.<BR/><BR/>We didn't think it would take so long to find another position, but it has for the simple reason that he won't takea job which requires much travel (for him, 120 days on the road would be soul murder) and he won't do a grinding commute every day. There is no room in such a schedule to slow down and be stilled.<BR/><BR/>So we trimmed our sails and wait for better weather. It will come, but meanwhile we have all this time together. And it frees up my creativity to figure out how to live more simply right now, in the moment.<BR/><BR/>We've never had any debt, not even in the leanest times, but paying for undergraduate school for our son has been a drain. Fortunately that ends in May, when he joins the real world to make his own way. <BR/><BR/>What I intuit in your description is a sense of being driven and that once you're King of the Hill (by your standards) then you'll relax and grow flowers? But there's always a higher hill to conquer, no?<BR/><BR/>I don't ask these questions to be contentious, but out of concern. The most driven man I ever encountered -- Jules Lederer, Ann Landers' husband -- said similar things about what he was going to do when he'd "made it." He had all sorts of plans for his simple life when the right time came. But the kairotic moment never occurred -- or maybe it did and he simply couldn't see it. I felt sorry for him but his restlessness made me uncomfortable. <BR/><BR/>I have since had that experience repeated with wealthy men -- the restlessness, the sense of being driven by a part of themselves they had severed from consciousness. <BR/><BR/>Remember the wealthy man who asked Jesus what he should do and was told to sell all he had and "come follow me"? The guy walkeed away sadly because he knew he couldn't do it. <BR/><BR/>Maybe that is not you at all, but from what you've said so far, it sounds like a similar situation.<BR/><BR/>When my mother was dying of Parkinson's and my husband was nursing her through that final year, he wasn't "working" or "achieving" -- he was painting landscapes. My mother, a spiritual materialist to the last (and someone who'd sought a spiritual path from her youth) would ask him, "so tell me again? Why is it that if you could be making lots of money you're just doing this?" -- and she'd gesture around at his painting, at her sickroom, etc. He would always answer, with a laugh, "because that's what I'm called to do."<BR/><BR/>Smoov, what are *you* called to do?Dymphnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11332644582520636279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171202969776747172007-02-11T06:09:00.000-08:002007-02-11T06:09:00.000-08:00Oh, and someone asked about my own history and exp...Oh, and someone asked about my own history and experience of Christianity on a more personal basis. I've written of this in the past, but I suppose there's always more I could say, partly because it continues to unfold, and naturally the future alters the past.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171202768493853622007-02-11T06:06:00.000-08:002007-02-11T06:06:00.000-08:00Yes, when I said "ancient Christianity," I was act...Yes, when I said "ancient Christianity," I was actually referring to a strand that starts broadly in antiquity and survives to this day. But it looks to me as if the initial roaring torrent has become more of a stream. The water is still there as pure as ever, but there are an awful lot of.... what's the word? Opposite of trubutaries.... Just woke up... can't think yet... <BR/><BR/>And re the horizontal: It is not quite accurate to say that it was created by God, because most of the problematic aspects of the horizontal are a product of fallen man creating a home in which he feels comfortable with his fallenness. There are other reasons, but it would take an entire post to explain them. Suffice it to say that the cosmos is hierarchical, and that things can paradoxically be more distant from God, even though everything ultimately remains "in" God.<BR/><BR/>And trout person:<BR/><BR/>Tell us a little bit about your turbulent relationship. I'll send you a free book if it is not an intrinsic reflection of your anti-human ideology, at cross purposes with your divine nature and therefore guaranteed to seal your unhappiness.<BR/><BR/>And more pictures forthcoming.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171202358130483742007-02-11T05:59:00.000-08:002007-02-11T05:59:00.000-08:00"isn't the horizontal created by God? So why do we..."<I>isn't the horizontal created by God? So why do we have to reject it, or even get away from it.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Catdog, this kept nagging away at me, because it kept reminding me of something, but now I remember. <BR/><BR/>There was some silliness going on in some Christian circles in the late 70's and they were, admirably, seeking out the vertical in radical, mystical ways. Heady stuff, but my spirit shied away from it, preferring to, "wait and see". It wasn't that they were seeking out mystery, it's that they were touting their methods, dogma, and path as the Truth At Last and the Last Truth. The last hurdle into transcendence. Or something.<BR/><BR/>Either way, an old, wise, Welshman who'd seen it all was nonplussed when introduced to this newer, shiny doctrine. When he was asked his view of it, he just laughed.<BR/><BR/>"Manifested Sons of God?! Transcending the physical?!!" he thundered. "Just pinch 'em and see if 'ey squeak!"<BR/><BR/>:)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171201198694360732007-02-11T05:39:00.000-08:002007-02-11T05:39:00.000-08:00I'm with Nomo - it's all of a piece.When Bob says ...I'm with Nomo - it's all of a piece.<BR/><BR/>When Bob says he likes Early Christianity b/c it was all about the transformative and now it's not, I have to say "What? Of course it is." <BR/> <BR/>Can only conclude that my lines re: churches, have fallen in pleasant places all my life.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps the transformation of individual people that resulted in the transformation of entire pagan societies looks more vital than the transformation of individual people in a post-Christian society?<BR/>Here, they're hidden in plain sight. But that doesn't mean that God does not grace them as much as any early Christian.<BR/><BR/>River: or as St. Ignatius Loyola put it, "Work as though everything depended on you and pray as if everything depended on God."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171200798558039012007-02-11T05:33:00.000-08:002007-02-11T05:33:00.000-08:00Dymphna:I have cultivated a simple life as much as...Dymphna:<BR/><BR/>I have cultivated a simple life as much as possible. The main thing that gets in the way is travelling approximately 120 days per year. But even that can be made to work. <BR/><BR/>People assume that wealth and the spiritual path are incompatible. Bob proves this to be untrue. While Bob may not have Warren Buffet levels of wealth, I think we can safely surmise he is in one of the upper income brackets. <BR/><BR/>Wealth can be tremendously empowering--and hence a means to true freedom. The fact that most people who make millions get addicted to the work they do doesn't mean everyone does. I'm not addicted to my work. If anything, I'm addicted to One Cosmos, and to Slack.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying my way is the only way by any menas, or that it is better than the traditional poor-but-happy route. Unless wealth is given to you (inheritance) or obtained through extreme luck (lottery) then generally speaking it takes enormous creativity, stamina and resourcefulness to create it out of thin air. In any case I have no regrets. Even today I can have our plane ready for me later today if I get a hankering to spend a day in Manhattan, strolling around the MOMA. This does not suck, and it does not interfere with my ability to learn through Bob. Corporate entrepreneurs make perfectly good kits--and eventually 'Coons--as long as they "get it", which I think I do.<BR/><BR/>Rainbow Trout:<BR/><BR/>I for one won't attack you because you haven't said anything profoundly revealing of any deep, irradicalbe soul-sickness, which is the case with 90% of newly spawned trolls. I agree with you on the love-complicates-slack thing. <BR/><BR/>I've weathered two marriages and right now--despite my corporate workload--I have more Slack than ever. I might just stay single, unless I win the cosmic lottery and find someone as worthy of the term "better half" as apparently Mrs. Leader is.Stephen Macdonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13474300559219020772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171197092825470022007-02-11T04:31:00.000-08:002007-02-11T04:31:00.000-08:00Bob, you said at the end of the post that you woul...Bob, you said at the end of the post that you would entertain questions, so here's one from my wife:<BR/><BR/>"When do we get to see more pictures of the kid?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171196908017764472007-02-11T04:28:00.000-08:002007-02-11T04:28:00.000-08:00The 'thorn' becomes more defined and painful as we...<I>The 'thorn' becomes more defined and painful as we transcend.</I><BR/>Ben, a beautiful post! I think, at times, the thorn becomes a bit more pronounced and pointed for two reasons. It is either assaulting our pride, or it is focusing our hunger for the eternal in the here and now.<BR/><BR/>That sharpness is similar to (to me) the blades of grass on the feet of the poor transparent folks in "The Great Divorce". As we colonize more truth, the more able we are to bear the reality of Truth, and the pointy ground beneath our feet no longer impacts us. It <I>bends</I> under the weight of our colonized Truth.<BR/><BR/>We sometimes view the sharp jabs as insurmountable, but the Eternal eye sees them as mere blades of grass. Transcendence makes the vertical weightier, giving us a more solid presence in the here and now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171192464355790252007-02-11T03:14:00.000-08:002007-02-11T03:14:00.000-08:00not saying I read it here, but it is a view which ...not saying I read it here, but it is a view which runs through even the Christian tradition at times and certainly in the traditional spiritual systems of the East.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171190758260301362007-02-11T02:45:00.000-08:002007-02-11T02:45:00.000-08:00Sorry, question was addressed to catdog.Sorry, question was addressed to catdog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171190543995082602007-02-11T02:42:00.000-08:002007-02-11T02:42:00.000-08:00I have never seen a rainbow trout with rabies.And ...I have never seen a rainbow trout with rabies.<BR/><BR/>And where did you read we should ignore the horizontal?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171189179302037552007-02-11T02:19:00.000-08:002007-02-11T02:19:00.000-08:00isn't the horizontal created by God? So why do we ...isn't the horizontal created by God? So why do we have to reject it, or even get away from it. After reading here for some time I am appreciating now (again) that the "world" is God's consciousness (or a small part of it) which kinda changes the perspective a bit. Every flower , tree, car, person the whole box and dice is nothing but God consciousness and our subjective consciousness can have a relationship with all of that, and the Creator! We need a moral compass / spritiual path but the things of the world are the mind of God (which was the basis for early scientific enquiry and set the West on its current path).<BR/><BR/>Anyway River Cocytus said... <BR/><BR/>In regards to religion he said: "Do the spiritual things as though there are no temporal things, and the temporal things as though there are no spiritual things." - which is much neater.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171177165239496742007-02-10T22:59:00.000-08:002007-02-10T22:59:00.000-08:00For me the greatest impediment to an uncomplicated...For me the greatest impediment to an uncomplicated life is my love relationship, which is very turbulent.<BR/><BR/>I know that celibacy is a time-honored path for the god-lover, but I just can't make the jump. I want to stay in the love game, and that choice is going to cloud my serenity for a long time to come.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, the stormy union is an engine of personal growth and change; I've made some gains too. I've become more whole, it seems.<BR/><BR/>BTW I'm a rabid lefty, the new troll on the block. Go ahead and take a shot at me, I'm ready.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171175239196155232007-02-10T22:27:00.000-08:002007-02-10T22:27:00.000-08:00"This is one of the reasons I am attracted to anci..."This is one of the reasons I am attracted to ancient Christianity..."<BR/><BR/>What else is there?NoMohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01100042056270224683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171163275243596962007-02-10T19:07:00.000-08:002007-02-10T19:07:00.000-08:00Liberty is a requisite for growth, because that is...<I>Liberty is a requisite for growth, because that is where Grace descends, based on our choices.<BR/>Sometimes even when we make the wrong choices.</I><BR/><BR/>That's why, when Christ said, "come follow me," he did not add "and make sure you're financially secure before you do."<BR/><BR/>Smoov --<BR/><BR/> how do you know you have three or four years left to make your transition to "a suitable place"? Why wait until you have your secure piles of money to contemplate God and grow flowers? <BR/><BR/>I suspect that when you are wealthy enough not to have to worry about money again, some other material thing will rush into that vacuum. As JC put it, better than I, "look at the lilies of the field, they neither toil nor spin..."<BR/><BR/>You might try the flowers and contemplation thing right now, while there is still time.<BR/><BR/>[I offer this as someone who is disabled and whose better half is currently unemployed...or rather he doesn't have a paying job. But creative soul that he is, he's busy using his gifts from the moment he gets up in the morning. And I'm busy managing on very little. <BR/><BR/>What I thought I *needed* turned out not to be the case at all. One of God's little jokes. He's full of them.<BR/><BR/>So maybe a job will come our way, or maybe not. Life will still be more interesting than I could have imagined.]Dymphnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11332644582520636279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1171162786726185662007-02-10T18:59:00.000-08:002007-02-10T18:59:00.000-08:00Bob, you used this quote from Schuon, "The chief d...Bob, you used this quote from Schuon, "The chief difficulty of the spiritual life is to maintain a simple, qualitative, heavenly position in a complex, quantitative, earthly setting." <BR/><BR/>That probably sums up both the biggest aim and the biggest challenge I've struggled with over the years. The two or three paragraphs of your post that follow that quote speak volumes, I think. Each line struck me as a key concept. For many years,much of what I attempted to "organize" did not work too well, and I found answering "the financial question" to REALLY have a "dispersing effect" on whatever awareness I had. Nowadays, faced with a lot of slack and little pressure, the horizontal seems a lot more friendly.<BR/><BR/>I will say this to others in this regard, meant as encouragement: "perseverance furthers." <BR/><BR/>The subject of intentional simplicity as it relates to spirituality is a rich area, full of valuable ore. Thanks, once again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com