tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post116083846866616765..comments2024-03-18T21:33:35.309-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: The Reality-Based Community of Base Emotionality (10.02.08)Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160935160964798002006-10-15T10:59:00.000-07:002006-10-15T10:59:00.000-07:00"However, I have a very deep spiritual commitment ..."However, I have a very deep spiritual commitment to honor, integrity, and charity. I demand it in myself and I demand it in those whom I offer respect and friendship"<BR/><BR/>There may be an argument to be made, that this is the true (this worldly) aim of religion, and the dreaded anti-target of the vitalist.<BR/><BR/>I dislike hypothetical’s, but for grins, imagine if you took two people, one deeply and truthfully religious, and one intensely atheistic of the 'do your own thing' anti virtues vein, and if we, in that 'someway' only imaginable in hypothetical’s, removed any religious information from their lives, wouldn't Karl's description describe the earthly essence of what the religious person's view would be? And isn't the opposite what the atheists view would still seek after?<BR/><BR/>The vitalists core is that they seek after possessing and interacting with Stuff here and now with no idea of further values or purposes than the sensory pleasures to be derived from that Stuff for them here and now, or in rare cases to be gotten from Stuff in the (not too distant) future. Those misophosies they uphold will be focused solely on praising and pursuing Stuff and especially those who attain the most prodigious amounts of Stuff. <BR/><BR/>For when the Capital 'Q' Quality of spirit is taken off the table, physical quantities of Stuff will become the focus of worship; the substitute for a sense of self is a grasping of quantities of stuff that the self can acquire. Such a focus is directed not only to physical stuff, but is also determined to turn Quality of thought - integrated concepts and Truths, into unrelated, disintegrated particulars, denying even the possibility of there being a One Truth, mocking it into a fractured collection of many facts.<BR/><BR/>As Gagdad said "But then, these subhuman philosophies become the justification to fall further into vital animality. Postmodern philosophies use the spirit to deny the spirit, leaving us with a wholly horizontal wasteland of matter and instinct."<BR/><BR/>The spiritually attuned religious persons focus is on the higher values to be attained and realized inwardly, from their incidental interaction with stuff, but that stuff has no significant value for them other than what their disciplined handling of it helps them to build within their own character and those they care for, Quality of thought and deed is paramount, quantity is incidental.<BR/><BR/>A seeking after what you can lay your hands on as the focus of your goals, leads you no higher than what you can lay your hands on. I've taken religion, and more specifically religious dogma, as being vehicles for carrying a persons thoughts towards the ideal of the One, but I think that that can only authentically be approached after realizing the One of your own self; a self that is not fractured, disintegrated, by contradictory vital pursuits, but instead is a self that is integrated and purposive, which requires a commitment to honor and integrity.<BR/><BR/>If that sense of One is attained within yourself, then the foundation for a contemplation of the wider One would seem to be a natural next step, the hitch for the incidental atheist, is that the step must be found by looking not only upwards but at the same time by inwardly seeking outwards. However I don't see their position as being in any meaningful way opposed to those who do seek further, while the Vitalist most assuredly is.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160916698954903982006-10-15T05:51:00.000-07:002006-10-15T05:51:00.000-07:00"For example, I used to love to go to Dodger Stadi..."For example, I used to love to go to Dodger Stadium, because it was like going to a park. It was positively edenic. No loud and annoying rock music blaring from the speakers, no ads filling every square inch of unused space, and a certain gentility among most of the fans. But now, they literally don’t give you a silent moment to ruminate and enjoy the natural rhythm of the game."<BR/><BR/>I used to go to movies for this same reason. The theaters were like temples. Quiet, where you could think. Anticipate an upcoming movie. Now they all but tell you the outcome of the upcoming movie, so why bother to see it.<BR/>And commercials! They are on from the moment you get in. They made stadium style seating, but put in these annoying lights that make me want to have a seizure every time I go up the steps to my seat. <BR/>The movies are horrid....a perfect example of vital man at his worst. I guess the theater experience is a good summation of the vital around us.Mother Effingbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01264056812587985898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160909541996862132006-10-15T03:52:00.000-07:002006-10-15T03:52:00.000-07:00Jihadists are nihilists. So are Nazis. Nihilists...Jihadists are nihilists. So are Nazis. <BR/><BR/>Nihilists. Anti-theists. Destroyers.<BR/><BR/>If I'm understanding Fr. Rose correctly, he pretty much says there are no such things as atheists or agnostics. They are actually antitheists. And at heart, ultimately nihilists. <BR/><BR/>The Father Rose chapter is eye-opening and so is Dr. Bob's commentary on it and I thank this blog for directing me to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160898760046142512006-10-15T00:52:00.000-07:002006-10-15T00:52:00.000-07:00Will: Why not bring Socrates and Tyler Durden into...Will: Why not bring Socrates and Tyler Durden into it?<BR/><BR/>"When I left him, I reasoned thus with myself: I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something, although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do. In this trifling particular, then, I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know."<BR/><BR/>Durden, paraphrase: "It is only when you admit you know nothing that you can learn anything."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160894580732831892006-10-14T23:43:00.000-07:002006-10-14T23:43:00.000-07:00“All we do crumbles to the ground though we refuse...“All we do crumbles to the ground though we refuse to see”<BR/><BR/>To me the words to Dust in the Wind speak of the fleetingness of life and the temporary nature of man and his works on the earthly plane so one should not put too much emphasis on the physical realm.<BR/><BR/>Alan –<BR/><BR/><I>“It only leads to deeper darkness where the fish have no eyes and can't recognize the light anymore.”</I><BR/><BR/>Good analogy!Eeevil Right Wing Nuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11536536336630930054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160885776664593482006-10-14T21:16:00.000-07:002006-10-14T21:16:00.000-07:00I dunno, Ms. Argghh - The "all we are is dust in t...I dunno, Ms. Argghh - <BR/><BR/>The "all we are is dust in the wind" line could be read as spiritually liberating in a sense.<BR/><BR/>We have to embrace our insignificance before we embrace our true significance. <BR/><BR/>(my bumper sticker wisdom of the day)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160876868529941092006-10-14T18:47:00.000-07:002006-10-14T18:47:00.000-07:00Okay, I withdraw my comment. I was specifically o...Okay, I withdraw my comment. I was specifically objecting to the crude caricature of God, who, we all know, may be omnipotent but cannot act contrary to his own nature, which includes the desire to create autonomous beings separate from himself, not atheist machines.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160876245794155162006-10-14T18:37:00.000-07:002006-10-14T18:37:00.000-07:00cousin dupree said... "That lone statement betrays...cousin dupree said... "That lone statement betrays so much ignorance on so many levels that we are temporarily speechless. "<BR/><BR/>Which statement is that? I thought Karl was playing it pretty straight forward, I think he's missing something, but unless my detectors are clogged, I didn't think he was being anti-spirit, only questioning where that spirit is legitimately to be found. <BR/><BR/>And I agree with him, the communists may have claimed to be atheists, but they were rabid fundamentalist worshipers at the church of Marxism, and similarly for the Nazi's as well. There are benign, reasoning atheists who balk at going any further than they can touch the evidence, and there are 'atheists' who only use the term to attack rival churches - and I'm guessing that Karl is more the former than the later.<BR/><BR/>Except for the last sentence, that is: <BR/>"So, your God fully intended me to bean atheist, and I am dutifully fulfilling my service. I think you get the drift of my argument."<BR/><BR/>Karl, that has just a wee bit of the smell of determinism about it, and I don't think you'll find any adherents of the deterministic variety at this site.<BR/><BR/>I could be wrong, but I don't see Karl as a troll - of course we'll see better as the sun comes up, if you turn to stone Karl, I can't help you out.Van Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08470413719262297062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160875959285947782006-10-14T18:32:00.000-07:002006-10-14T18:32:00.000-07:00Karl's posting because he wants to be heard.he's n...Karl's posting <BR/>because he wants to be heard.<BR/><BR/>he's not Morford.<BR/><BR/>don't chase him off.<BR/><BR/>he's attached to his worldview,<BR/>but within those limits,<BR/>imo,he sounds sincere.<BR/><BR/>of course his world view is still better than any other.<BR/><BR/>just so long as you get that part.gumshoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10567181585153569751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160875704385802252006-10-14T18:28:00.000-07:002006-10-14T18:28:00.000-07:00And speaking of nihilistic anthems,Dust in the win...And speaking of nihilistic anthems,<BR/><BR/>Dust in the wind<BR/>All we are is dust in the wind...<BR/><BR/>Actually, I read somewhere that the writer of that song came to embrace Christianity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160875491354739512006-10-14T18:24:00.000-07:002006-10-14T18:24:00.000-07:00That second "karl vincent" did not seem as the fir...That second "karl vincent" did not seem as the first "karl vincent", unless of course, alcohol was involved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160873416115868982006-10-14T17:50:00.000-07:002006-10-14T17:50:00.000-07:00Karl--That lone statement betrays so much ignoranc...Karl--<BR/><BR/>That lone statement betrays so much ignorance on so many levels that we are temporarily speechless. We recommend that you find another blog that is more congenial to your low-watt cogitations before we recover our powers of speech.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160872114331360932006-10-14T17:28:00.000-07:002006-10-14T17:28:00.000-07:00PUhhleazze, my dear friends. Don't throw the numb...PUhhleazze, my dear friends. Don't throw the number of 100,000,000 million human beings killed by atheists. I don't think atheism was the defining quality of these killers. Modern Jihadist are not atheists, nor were most Nazis. C'mon, that line of argument is very weak. As far as sending god a letter by smoke express... well... I frankly find it silly. To be logical, we must presume that your God is independent of time, after all, he created it, right? So he knows tha first day at that same moment of mind that he perceives the last moment. It couldn't be a temporal creation that keeps him guessing. He created ouyr las breath in the his same moment that he created our first breathe. For his eyes there are no surprises. So, your God fully intended me to bean atheist, and I am dutifully fulfilling my service. I think you get the drift of my argument.<BR/>Karl VincentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160869702297075422006-10-14T16:48:00.000-07:002006-10-14T16:48:00.000-07:00"Even creepier are the vital beings who get involv..."Even creepier are the vital beings who get involved in esoteric religion, for then you start to touch on the demonic."<BR/>Yeah, or religious people who become "vital", such as Jim Wallis, who has managed to merge Christianity and Marxism together into a grotesque, Orc-like hybrid. To me, this cocktail is about as appealing as blending orange juice and bovine excrement together. The same can be said of Muslims who become "vital", and use their vitality to fly airplanes into buildings and eviscerate children with nail bombs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160868436460436032006-10-14T16:27:00.000-07:002006-10-14T16:27:00.000-07:00Bob-- Your comments about Southern-fried religion ...Bob-- Your comments about Southern-fried religion reminded me of Flannery O'Connor's short stories. Granted she was writing as a Roman Catholic, she still got the hysterical (for want of a better term) as well as the bipolar quality of the local piety exactly right. And speaking of WJC-- I can't help thinking that Jimmah Cahtah and Al-the-Vanderbilt-Divinity-dropout Gore are two other prime examples of the manic guilt and expression/repression swing you described. Al's just exchanged the heart-warming of Wesleyan revivalism for the Gaian obsession with global warming.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160866421361638962006-10-14T15:53:00.000-07:002006-10-14T15:53:00.000-07:00Outstanding, Bob!Vitalman...Malignant, narcissisti...Outstanding, Bob!<BR/>Vitalman...Malignant, narcissistic anarchy.<BR/>Malarcanarchy.<BR/>I dread crowds also.<BR/>It would be easy to be a hermit if I weren't married.<BR/>Malarcanarchy vitamen are painful to be around (and not a good pain).<BR/>They are like zombies, seeking spiritual brains to eat. <BR/>Parasitically repulsive, and can be deadly.<BR/>I put on the Armor, and try to avoid the zombies (thank God for 24 hour stores).<BR/>It's exhausting.<BR/>Like running a spiritual gauntlet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160866271218539282006-10-14T15:51:00.000-07:002006-10-14T15:51:00.000-07:00Aquila,This Morford guy seems like one of those ad...Aquila,<BR/>This Morford guy seems like one of those adolescent intellectuals that delights in "getting in your face" and dismantling every tradition and institution he can get his unclean hands on. What a freakin goon. Speaking of musical anthems like "Is that all there is" or "Alabama Song", Morford's anthem is probably this one from the musical Peter Pan:<BR/><BR/>I won't grow up<BR/>I don't wanna wear a tie<BR/>Or a serious expression<BR/>In the middle of July...<BR/><BR/>Or maybe this old Beatles classic:<BR/><BR/>Day after day<BR/>Alone on a hill<BR/>The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still...<BR/><BR/>....you know the rest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160865033595584802006-10-14T15:30:00.000-07:002006-10-14T15:30:00.000-07:00Bob and all,sorry for the error on the Peggy Lee s...Bob and all,<BR/>sorry for the error on the Peggy Lee song - some radio guy said it was by Kurt Weill some time ago, and he was obviously wrong. But it sure sounds like something he might write. I know that Alabama Song definitely is by Kurt Weill. Should have waited for Bob's response before further posting - this blog commenting can make one kind of impulsive sometimes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160864530879759132006-10-14T15:22:00.000-07:002006-10-14T15:22:00.000-07:00Aquila,wow, did not know that..thanks for the addi...Aquila,<BR/>wow, did not know that..thanks for the additional info. I think that adds and even more interesting twist, and lends further creedence to Bob's central thesis; nihilism leading to absurdity and childishness. There are few songwriters more nihilstic than Weill. Condsider these words from the Alabama Song, done by the Doors (Which I mistakenly called Whiskey Bar); they're another good example of a mind given overto nihilistic absurdity:<BR/><BR/>Show me the way to the next whiskey bar<BR/>Oh, don't ask why<BR/>Oh, don't ask why<BR/>Show me the way to the next whiskey bar<BR/>Oh, don't ask why<BR/>Oh, don't ask why<BR/>For if we don't find the next whiskey bar<BR/>I tell you we must die<BR/>I tell you we must die<BR/>I tell you, I tell you, I tell you we must die<BR/><BR/>Considering Morrison's drug-addled career, it's no suprise that he chose this song.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160863863451824212006-10-14T15:11:00.000-07:002006-10-14T15:11:00.000-07:00I can't imagine such behaviors yet in St. Louis. ...I can't imagine such behaviors yet in St. Louis. If the Cards happen to get to and win the World Series, there won't be any fires or riots. Many reasons, I think, tons of Catholics and Jews, and a very long-time population.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160862358814715952006-10-14T14:45:00.000-07:002006-10-14T14:45:00.000-07:00aquila--Yes, Morford is a fine example of someone ...aquila--<BR/><BR/>Yes, Morford is a fine example of someone who has fallen all the way, but is still digging.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160862217951983262006-10-14T14:43:00.000-07:002006-10-14T14:43:00.000-07:00But Lieber and Stoller are the quintessence of sop...But Lieber and Stoller are the quintessence of sophisticated New York horizontal hipsterism. My father in law is the same way.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160862068927635032006-10-14T14:41:00.000-07:002006-10-14T14:41:00.000-07:00tsebring--No!The song is actually by Lieber & Stol...tsebring--<BR/><BR/>No!<BR/><BR/>The song is actually by Lieber & Stoller, who also wrote "Hound Dog" and so many other great R&B songs.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160861568906974792006-10-14T14:32:00.000-07:002006-10-14T14:32:00.000-07:00tsebring,Considering Weill was a Communist, it's n...tsebring,<BR/><BR/>Considering Weill was a Communist, it's not surprising he'd pen such an anthem to horizontality and vitalist resignation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1160861186516226112006-10-14T14:26:00.000-07:002006-10-14T14:26:00.000-07:00Bob,Sorry to nitpick, but arent the words to that ...Bob,<BR/>Sorry to nitpick, but arent the words to that Peggy Lee song actually by Kurt Weill? I think that adds an interesting twist, Weill being the master of musical absurdity that he was (he also wrote Mack the Knife and the Doors' song Whiskey Bar).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com