tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post115928422095060676..comments2024-03-28T20:04:20.286-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Secularism and the Mystique of Nothingness (9.30.10)Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1163594037856019312006-11-15T04:33:00.000-08:002006-11-15T04:33:00.000-08:00The US is officially defined as a secular state.A ...The US is officially defined as a secular state.<BR/><BR/>A secular state is a state or country that officially is neutral in matters of religion, neither supporting nor opposing any particular religious beliefs or practices, and has no state religion or equivalent.<BR/><BR/>This should not be confused with an atheistic state. State atheism is the official rejection of religion in all forms by a government in favor of atheism. <BR/><BR/>Basically, a secular state allows for religious pluralism. No official state religion and no government sanctioning of any specific religion.beepbeepitsmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12931640447011071849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159372180974303662006-09-27T08:49:00.000-07:002006-09-27T08:49:00.000-07:00Bob,In a span of three days I have evolved from ge...Bob,<BR/><BR/>In a span of three days I have evolved from getting jacked up by Petey and called out by the troll patrol to being nominated for an office. How 'bout them apples. That's gotta be some kind of record.(laughin)<BR/><BR/>Five+ years ago I was a recent MBA grad, was 2/3 through the dreaded Chartered Financial Analyst program, and occupied a very nice office where I researched X's and O's and other investment merits. Got "called" out from there and have been doing my darndest to stay away from financial stuff ever since. If helping people tap into the buried treasures of the beloved consciousness within is what you mean by "treasurer" then I may be of some support to your merry band. If finances has anything to do with it, you would be prone to re-consider after conversations with my father, banker, broker, and wife.<BR/><BR/>In quoting Cady I was actually attempting to acknowledge you as an educator of the fashion you've just described. Among the many books adverstised in WIE, yours caught my attention and now rests on my bedside table. Every other full moon I pop it open, read a couple of pages, and invite God to integrate any truths therein into my own being relative to my role in God's reality. Somethin like that. Same process with brother Chomsky. (smile)<BR/><BR/>Serious question. How much Teilhard have you read? Just curious.Big 'Possumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14646287143376549419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159362064468251432006-09-27T06:01:00.000-07:002006-09-27T06:01:00.000-07:00Big Cosmic Possum--Amen to that. Anyone who think...Big Cosmic Possum--<BR/><BR/>Amen to that. Anyone who thinks I am somehow interested in "followers" is missing the point. I want them to recognize and draw out the eternal wisdom that is within themselves. <BR/><BR/>Petey, of course, would like to be a cult leader. He's thinking about making you treasurer (of our eternal treasury, that is).Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159360392655966912006-09-27T05:33:00.000-07:002006-09-27T05:33:00.000-07:00Bob,Re last comment about your drawing attention t...Bob,<BR/><BR/>Re last comment about your drawing attention to things we already know......<BR/><BR/>"God is wisdom and intelligence. All the wisdom and intelligence that we see in the universe is God, is wisdom projected through a visible form. To educate (from educare, to lead forth) never means to force into from the outside, but always means to draw out from within something already existing there. God as infinite wisdom lies within every human being, only waiting to be led forth into manifestation. This is true education."<BR/><BR/>from Emile Cady's "Lessons in Truth".<BR/><BR/>Popped to mind.Big 'Possumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14646287143376549419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159336277608403302006-09-26T22:51:00.000-07:002006-09-26T22:51:00.000-07:00From: the desk of Fergus the CatTo: JWM's Booger t...From: the desk of Fergus the Cat<BR/><BR/>To: JWM's Booger the Cat - <BR/><BR/>Makes ya want to scream, doesn't it? The way these people flail around in their metaphysics . . . just pathetic. Well, someday they'll figure out what we already know. Someday. In the meantimes, we've just got to be patient with them. <BR/><BR/>By the way, I stared at a crack on the wall for about 20 minutes today. Fun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159334148121059592006-09-26T22:15:00.000-07:002006-09-26T22:15:00.000-07:00Good to see JWM back! The cat must have finally ro...Good to see JWM back! The cat must have finally rolled off the keyboard.<BR/><BR/>Thanks, will, for clarifying the distinction, inasmuch as it is possible to contemplate Manifestation, the Creation, the kenosis or <EM><A HREF="http://www.realm.org.uk/zen%20&%20tsimtsum.htm" REL="nofollow">tsimtsum</A></EM>, "dividing the waters," all those massive & obscure yet intimate images of Origin (a). I was referring to the confusion and, indeed, desensitizing factor of an idea of the "necessity" of the human rebellion (b) and its grievous fruits. To the extent, and I'm concluding this cuts a lot of Gordian knots, to the extent the God-man question is at least as much relational as philosophical, there's a kink in going to "It had to happen" however expressed that doesn't demonstrate itself to me, logically, methodologically, mythically, morally, poetically, you name it.<BR/><BR/>But the distinction between Creation and Destruction is obviously valid; though there's that counter-melody that tirelessly & mercifully makes of one the other, depending on agent and context.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159333783402970082006-09-26T22:09:00.000-07:002006-09-26T22:09:00.000-07:00Wow! I mean...WOW!You have been given the gifts of...Wow! I mean...WOW!<BR/>You have been given the gifts of discernment and prophecy, Bob.<BR/>Your last comment, at 8:01 confirm that you know.<BR/>When I was an agnostic, and also a hedonist, I knew God existed (I was lying to myself), but Iwanted God to prove His existance MY WAY!<BR/>God didn't operate MY WAY!<BR/>What was MY WAY!?<BR/>Hell...if I knew.<BR/>HELL...if I knew.<BR/>I learned a little bit about HELL...through imminent, inevitable death, framed with constant pain, guilt and shame.<BR/>It was time to decide...eat, drink, and be merry...or be born again, through emmanent, absolute TRUTH, adorned with<BR/>eternal Grace, Mercy, and Honor.<BR/>I always thought that if I accepted the Lord, I would lose my identity.<BR/>LOL! It is so amusing now, as I look back. <BR/>When I sought Truth and Wisdom, was when I realized that I hated myself. I was as low as I could stand! <BR/>I didn't care about the nonsensical "loss of identity" worry.<BR/>I was ready to die!<BR/>So...I died, and I was reborn.<BR/>I didn't lose my identity...I gained it!!!<BR/>I thank my Father for the sacrifice He made, for an undeserving wretch like me.<BR/>He did it for Truth and Love.<BR/>That is Glorious!!!<BR/>It is the beginning of a long journey towards God, but I know as long as I seek, as long as I learn, as long asI don't give up what is Truly valuable...LIFE...<BR/>then I will grow...for ETERNITY.<BR/>Hell and death are defeated, and now I know (Gno) that.<BR/>God gave His Word!!!<BR/>How great Thou Art!!! <BR/><BR/>Thanks for a Magnificent post, Bob, and some Truly great comments from my fellow bobbleheads!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159326107618610232006-09-26T20:01:00.000-07:002006-09-26T20:01:00.000-07:00I'm always surprised at how some readers know exac...I'm always surprised at how some readers know exactly what I'm talking about better than I do. Sometimes I feel like I'm just drawing attention to things that people know but perhaps haven't yet put into words.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159325786120242612006-09-26T19:56:00.000-07:002006-09-26T19:56:00.000-07:00Big Possum.Thank you.If that was "a little someth...Big Possum.<BR/>Thank you.<BR/>If that was "a little something" I can't wait to hear the next big thing.<BR/>That was magnificent.<BR/><BR/>JWMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159325107556582412006-09-26T19:45:00.000-07:002006-09-26T19:45:00.000-07:00jwm,I was recently asked what it feels like to be ...jwm,<BR/><BR/>I was recently asked what it feels like to be God's beloved. The question was posed in a servant leadership class in conjunction with our reading of Henri Nouwen's "The Life of the Beloved". Here are my deuce cents.<BR/><BR/>The beloved is not me, the person, it is the divine potential (Christ, if you will) that resides with me, waiting to be activated by my choice to enter into a committed relationship with the living God. As I make this choice, God and I enter into a covenant relationship through which “a child is born”. Through this relationship, this pure child of divine love, birthed by the infusion and promptings of the Holy Spirit, emerges into ever-greater regions of my consciousness. The more time I spend with God, and the more responsive I am to Spirit’s leadings, the greater experiences I will have of bringing this child’s LIFE into the world. The more I bring this child’s life into the world, the more I will experience myself as “being love”, and thus the more I will experience being loved by God.<BR/><BR/>Little somethin something that came to me this mornin. Seems connected.Big 'Possumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14646287143376549419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159322928441693812006-09-26T19:08:00.000-07:002006-09-26T19:08:00.000-07:00: ): )High Power Rocketryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11537203640644706903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159317433623208752006-09-26T17:37:00.000-07:002006-09-26T17:37:00.000-07:00Hi folks. Hey, Talkincamel- good to see you here! ...Hi folks. Hey, Talkincamel- good to see you here! I've been in lurk 'n learn mode for a while, but today's post was a very good one. Made me think. Here are some of the thoughts, badly edited:<BR/><BR/>God wills existence into being. We are a bubble within a bubble. (watch me not make a pun) Turn around and look back into time. You can see only so far and then it goes all hazy and disappears. We have no memory of birth and infancy, but we were surely aware of it as it happend. Where were we before? God knew us before we got here, if I read the scripture correctly. We all of us had to fall into the dark in order to awaken on this plane. <BR/>Wonderful stuff to contemplate.<BR/><BR/><I>"The important point is to make him [God] present and real, and thus inhabit the space where our true humanness emerges.</I><BR/><BR/>This is the hard part. It's a different sort of fall. The rules are deceptively simple- Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.(Hard enough to love yourself sometimes, much less the neighbor.)"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Or what I feel is the prime directive: Do the best you can with what you have.<BR/>Somewhere in the midst of it all you take it on faith that God hears your prayers. If you pray for faith, and guidance, and work at it some, chances are you'll get your faith, and guidance. Be careful about praying for forbearance or humility.<BR/><BR/>JWMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159315328802626282006-09-26T17:02:00.000-07:002006-09-26T17:02:00.000-07:00“There are people who believe that government shou...<I>“There are people who believe that government should do far more than it does now to ensure that no human being suffers needlessly from poverty, homelessness, and illness and that human beings working together, with government involvement, can help to make this nation and this world a far more hospitable place for humans and other life forms.<BR/>Yet some of these same people are committed Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and members of other religious persuasions or adherents of other profoundly spiritual paths and believe every bit as much in the "vertical" as you do and work every bit as hard, if not harder, to fully realize it in themselves and to help others to realize it as you do. <BR/><BR/>Would you call them "leftists" too?”</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, I would because (as good liberals must) they believe that the solutions to problems always involve government; conservatives believe that the private sector (i.e. individuals, churches, synagogues, private charities etc.) is best suited to deal with social issues. Until you grasp this basic fact, you will never “get” what is being discussed here.<BR/> <BR/>By making “government” the vehicle through which poverty, homelessness and hunger are addressed, you take out personal responsibility to do what one can on an individual level to help our fellow man as we are commanded to do by God. When government is ultimately responsible for taking care of those less fortunate, the individual is (or at least feels he is) absolved of actually thinking about or seeing the condition of those around him/herself and ACTIVELY working to help their fellow man. When government is in charge of charity, all one must do is be gainfully employed and be willing to vote in politicians who have no compunction about taking a big wet bite out of your paycheck and voila you have done your part to help. <BR/>But that isn’t real charity; that is simply wealth transference. Real charity requires not only feeds the body but also feeds the soul by showing love and compassion. Real charity not only feeds the soul of the receiver but also the giver. You do not have to have any love or compassion for your fellow man when charity is a passive act of just letting the government take money out of your check each pay period. Can you really say that liberals feel themselves uplifted spiritually when they look at their pay stub and see what the government has taken out on behalf of the needy?<BR/> <BR/>The difference between welfare and charity is the difference between a hand out and a hand UP. There is nothing more demoralizing and soul killing than being just another faceless, nameless case number, sitting in a government office filling out endless forms. But when an individual consciously reaches out a hand of love and compassion to a fellow human being, nothing could be more soul nourishing and brings both nearer to God.Eeevil Right Wing Nuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11536536336630930054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159312877106591262006-09-26T16:21:00.000-07:002006-09-26T16:21:00.000-07:00'Zactly. There's the cosmic fall, which is a metap...'Zactly. There's the cosmic fall, which is a metaphysical necessity, and the human fall, which you might say is an "unnecessary necessity," inevitable (or uneveateapple) but not absolutely determined. Nobodaddy is to blame for the first, everybaddie for the second.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159311529084349402006-09-26T15:58:00.000-07:002006-09-26T15:58:00.000-07:00Dilys - Well, there's the Fall in the sense of (a)...Dilys - <BR/><BR/>Well, there's the Fall in the sense of (a) the Godhead self-sacrificing It's Oneness so that Manifestation/Creation could occur.<BR/><BR/>And then there's (b) the expulsion from the Garden, the corruption of the Garden. <BR/><BR/>Dare I say that we were, in sense, somewhat party to (a) because though we were only "potential" in the Oneness, it had to have been an aggregate of "potentials" that chose to self-sacrifice Oneness and all-conforming Unity? (yes weird, I know)<BR/><BR/>As to (b) - no doubt about it, the result of a conscious choice, perhaps one that, if not strictly necessary, was inevitable given (a). Perhaps recognizing that (b) was probably inevitable for most self-aware creatures, the Oneness designed in advance the Rescue. <BR/><BR/>I think that maybe (a) and (b) are sometimes conflated, resulting in a certain amount of confusion re the "necessity" of the Fall.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159308455457832772006-09-26T15:07:00.000-07:002006-09-26T15:07:00.000-07:00looptloop--The book you describe is in progress.Di...looptloop--<BR/><BR/>The book you describe is in progress.<BR/><BR/>Dilys--<BR/><BR/>Blaming the victim!<BR/><BR/>I think it depends on which way you look at it, from the top down (felix culpa), or from the bottom up (phoenix culprit!).Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159307625496628762006-09-26T14:53:00.000-07:002006-09-26T14:53:00.000-07:00Bob-I think the approach in the post today may be ...Bob-<BR/>I think the approach in the post today may be more inviting to an exhausted liberal that is beginning to realize the futility of his secular activism and posturing. If the tone of the conservative argument is the least bit accusing, it’s way too easy to arouse the typical huffing and pissed defensive response. Things regress or at best just stagnate.<BR/><BR/>Throughout your blogging have you made any revelations in how to get through to a liberal/leftist? And have you considered writing a political book on conservatism based on a One Cosmos enlightened-form of Christianity (or psycho-spiritual Truth of choice). It seems like the books of this ilk that are out there today swiftly get rebuffed by “Bill Mahar-types” because they come from an oversimplified evangelical angle (i.e., too faith-based without adequate insight of Truth).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159307539907397372006-09-26T14:52:00.000-07:002006-09-26T14:52:00.000-07:00And in a more on-thread vein, I'm not on board wit...And in a more on-thread vein, I'm not on board with the "the Fall had to happen for manifestation etc." That line of thought seems like both whistling in the dark, and a denial of repentance, of the grief of the rupture which we have <I>no way of knowing the missed opportunities of the alternative</I>.<BR/><BR/>You are quite right, however, that in reality as we now know it, Job #1 (as the Ford ads used to claim) is Finding the Way Home.<BR/><BR/>My favorite metaphor is <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2015:11-32;&version=9;" REL="nofollow">the Prodigal Son</A>. He told himself stories about the superiority of the Bigger World (curiosity? greed? untimely impatience?), made headstrong decisions, and headed down the slope. At some point, aided by real encounter with manifestation, he "came to himself" and introduced a different, more promising interior discourse. And destination. <BR/><BR/>He was not necessarily "better off for his wanderings" (though the narrative section of our brains requires it). It is however clear he would have been no good if his will had been hi-jacked or preempted in the name of the Better Decision.<BR/><BR/>Love and wisdom in that story honor the free will of the wanderer, without any scripts about how "You had to do it, son..." And for a frisson of the mystery of evil, there is a dark obligato of resentment from the family background, to which we could transfer our speculation indefinitely.<BR/><BR/>But that "the Fall had to happen," or was a "felix culpa," begs the question, and FYI is hotly debated by Orthodox (capital O) Christianity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159306122591738042006-09-26T14:28:00.000-07:002006-09-26T14:28:00.000-07:00I predict that a members-based site would be much ...I predict that a members-based site would be much less irritating and time-consuming, with an invitation on the sidebar to e-mail requests for an invitation to participate. <BR/><BR/>Then a troll who appears to visit not so much to learn as to wrench the forum to his wants and purposes and bickering counter-definitional <EM>gotcha</EM>s, could be quickly retired to his own site and, as the King Troll used to do, re-post Bob's posts and argue with them there in his own hermetic mirror chamber, a world where, sadly, nobody much goes. <BR/><BR/>I don't see that people have to "agree" with Bob, as to be willing and able to discuss matters in the same arena acknowledging the same presuppositions. "Learning" isn't a magic mantra that justifies don't-get-it. What about "I'm a guest here" is so mysterious? Haven't we all sat through conversations where we had not much to contribute and just followed them with interest, postponing puerile questions until we get home?<BR/><BR/>Oh, how boring it is not to settle this!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159301167366598562006-09-26T13:06:00.000-07:002006-09-26T13:06:00.000-07:00"There's a skunk in every garden."Heh. I like that..."There's a skunk in every garden."<BR/><BR/>Heh. I like that. I was thinking along the lines of,<BR/><BR/>"Light always attracts bugs."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159300036109663142006-09-26T12:47:00.000-07:002006-09-26T12:47:00.000-07:00Possums - By "ape", I mean "counterfeit imitator",...Possums - <BR/><BR/>By "ape", I mean "counterfeit imitator", not anything simian-related.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159299347848193812006-09-26T12:35:00.000-07:002006-09-26T12:35:00.000-07:00Bob,No more posts from me until possibly after 10:...Bob,<BR/>No more posts from me until possibly after 10:00 your time ( I have to work) so all else is counterfit but you'll probably know that. I didn't write the 11:51 comment, delete away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159299073124773282006-09-26T12:31:00.000-07:002006-09-26T12:31:00.000-07:00Cousin Dupree,Was your nick stolen by cousing dupr...Cousin Dupree,<BR/>Was your nick stolen by cousing dupree @ 11:10 AM or are you just psychic. Mine was taken @ 11:51 AM.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159298574949634502006-09-26T12:22:00.000-07:002006-09-26T12:22:00.000-07:00I never thought I'd say this, but maybe we were a ...I never thought I'd say this, but maybe we were a little rough on Nags. Not all of his comments were as clueless as we let on. But we wanted him out of here and we didn't care how we did it. Maybe we're reaping some of our bitter harvest.<BR/><BR/>But what's done is done, and it looks like Hoarhey's right. Keep it on permanent comment moderation or allow participation by members only. Or how about following through with what you and I have said and ignoring him? We'd just have to get everyone onboard the GAZE train? <BR/><BR/>Something tells me he still wouldn't go away. He seems pretty determined to make his voice heard whether we ignore him or not. But we could still try it and see. What have we got to lose?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1159298398397865932006-09-26T12:19:00.000-07:002006-09-26T12:19:00.000-07:00Will,Enjoyed your comments above, particularly the...Will,<BR/><BR/>Enjoyed your comments above, particularly the oservation about "Christians without Christ". Don't know that I'd refer to them as apes as much as irritants and frustrations, but I'm withca on your point.<BR/><BR/>This morning I had to turn in a paper for my Servant Leadership class at a local church. The paper is a response to the question of "How do I feel as God's beloved". Just posted on my blog, it ties into your comments nicely.Big 'Possumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14646287143376549419noreply@blogger.com