tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post115582824581151096..comments2024-03-28T20:04:20.286-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: The Devil's Third Commandment: All Metaphysics and God-Talk Shall Be in Vain (8.10.08)Gagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1156132346249036552006-08-20T20:52:00.000-07:002006-08-20T20:52:00.000-07:00Geckofeeder,Thank you for the welcome. That whole...Geckofeeder,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for the welcome. That whole communist thing is definatly not known to me, but of course, I didn't live during most of the intrigue that the former USSR caused here in the States, except where it intersects some of the Submarine tales that were passed down in the Navy. But, when it comes to some phrases, especially something as simple as "fellow traveller" I won't worry too much about the old connotations, because, well, they are pretty simple and can be used for multiple things, not just a communist in the West.lazlonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03002648804501549286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155923087353052812006-08-18T10:44:00.000-07:002006-08-18T10:44:00.000-07:00Thanks, Bob. I’ll try not to let you down, althou...Thanks, Bob. I’ll try not to let you down, although being born a leftist, unfortunately I can only use the right half of my brain. <BR/><BR/>Jacob C: “Misinterpreting and distorting the message contained in the Word is a blasphemy.”<BR/><BR/>I’m glad you said that. Does that also apply to the imperfect human religious leaders who accidentally or intentionally twist the intentions of the Holy Books? (Don’t pretend they don’t exist.)<BR/><BR/>Bob – “Unfortunately, I believe that in most churches, wisdom, which can only be experienced for oneself, is reduced to mere religion. Religion is supposed to be the framework for spirituality, but often it is just a skeleton with no flowing blood.”<BR/><BR/>I have to say that’s exactly why I prefer the term “spirituality” to “religion.” Religion carries some bad memories from my childhood – two words: Catholic School. Still, being the best person you can be and seeking out G-d and Truth are the same no matter what you label it. I just have a little PTSD, that’s all.<BR/><BR/>On a different subject, It seems that the war in Israel has had the effect of making individual Israelis put aside their differences temporarily to fight together for the greater good. I suppose it’s unrealistic, but I wish the rest of the world could follow Israel’s lead. As for anti-semites, anyone who has known even one Jew well or studied Judaism with a genuine desire to learn can not possibly be anti-semitic. To do so would be truly evil. You’re right, hate websites are absolutely rampant. Every one I have seen reads as if it were written by children – and not a single one can give a legitimate, intelligent reason for disliking Jews. For an interesting take on this subject, I suggest reading Abbagav’s August 18 posting at http://abbagav.blogspot.com/ <BR/><BR/>Going back to your “Real Lumin Being” post – yes Bob, a beefcake photo would be lovely. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155917141898924032006-08-18T09:05:00.000-07:002006-08-18T09:05:00.000-07:00guade,it seems to me that the obedience to authori...guade,<BR/><BR/>it seems to me that the obedience to authority is part and parcel of what Western Civilization has come to reject as "enlightened". This is what the Islamists do, and this is what, say Catholics do when they don't use birth control, and don't limit the number of children. Democracy is, clearly one person, one vote. Basically, every person has their own church, and their own relationship, right or wrong, with God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155906166088703982006-08-18T06:02:00.000-07:002006-08-18T06:02:00.000-07:00My dears, what a great discussion.In one respect, ...My dears, what a great discussion.<BR/><BR/>In one respect, you could look at adherence to a religious tradition as an act of obedience to and love for the Truth. <BR/><BR/>The Anchoress had a good post about this a while back - it's not that you shop around and find what suits your already formed ideas, you look for the Truth and conform yourself thusly, to whatever God or His designated authorities tell you to do.<BR/><BR/>Of course, 'authority' puts most peoples's backs right up, and understandably so, thanks to the fallout from everybody's falleness, but the final assent to authority is still a matter of free will.<BR/><BR/>Dilys is spot on - I've done both, at various times. The best "non-chatter" is road map: here's where you want to go and here's how a lot of people get there. With an appendix of alternate routes.<BR/><BR/>I'm going out on a limb here - I'm betting, from personal experience that there is a lot more living faith out there than we realize. It's just not very articulate - so it doesn't speak up. But it acts, instead.<BR/>(Though I admit that I'm in a particulary good spot to see that -and perhaps my view is skewed.)Salhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13201226644704622876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155884721483874282006-08-18T00:05:00.000-07:002006-08-18T00:05:00.000-07:00The fire of the Spirit purifies,while the fire of ...The fire of the Spirit purifies,<BR/>while the fire of evil consumes.<BR/>I have experenced both, but much prefer the fire of the spirit.<BR/>I have a Passion for the fire of the Spirit, and have come to the realization that it is never what I expect, but it is what I need, and I never regret accepting it.<BR/>There is a faux, fleshly passion/desire for the fire of evil, but thankfully, that wanes more and more, as I am purified by the Spirit, and my character, my spirit grows from the living Water of Life.<BR/>Will- I would liken the passing away of Passion/desire to the passing away of<BR/>hope and faith:<BR/>They are the last to pass away, leaving Love, whic is Eternal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155879128718340942006-08-17T22:32:00.000-07:002006-08-17T22:32:00.000-07:00Lazlong, welcome if you resonate with those intere...Lazlong, welcome if you resonate with those interested in truth that are here. Did you know that "fellow traveler" is someone who supports the communists but lives in the west with all its freedoms and privileges? Probably not as I don't imagine they tell you that in history books and you look kind of young . Most cybernuts hanging here seem to have had the training wheels of some kind of organized religion( Thank goodness everything got cleared up with Lisa and Bunnies. I'm with them. ) And always with the obnoxious zen master turqoise shrink. Sweet dreams.Geckohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11150958111957262924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155868488587961102006-08-17T19:34:00.000-07:002006-08-17T19:34:00.000-07:00BTW is the GAGDAD your preferred tuning, by chance...BTW is the GAGDAD your preferred tuning, by chance?Guitanguranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04681832816808122712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155868411508105272006-08-17T19:33:00.000-07:002006-08-17T19:33:00.000-07:00Wow, Bob. My remaining brain cell is so out of sha...Wow, Bob. My remaining brain cell is so out of shape. Great points on what I've actually been able to absorb.<BR/><BR/>From the standpoint of a re-fried Baptist and a long time non-organizational type Believer, the go-it-alone approach makes for tough slogging. At least,that has been my experience. Whether you look at the Tabernacle model of the Old Testament or the Koinoneia model of First Century followers of The Way, there are spiritual perks in being part of whatever club you join that comes with engaging others...in person. Turning your earlier point back around, I think you really do need to experience the 'real thing' to get the full understanding of it.Guitanguranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04681832816808122712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155861450913158152006-08-17T17:37:00.000-07:002006-08-17T17:37:00.000-07:00All I can say is, wow. I just recently found your...All I can say is, wow. I just recently found your blog, and I am allready hooked on your insight. As a fellow traveler on the road (allthough I am far behind), I thank you for putting this out for people to see.lazlonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03002648804501549286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155855960589293282006-08-17T16:06:00.000-07:002006-08-17T16:06:00.000-07:00Phew, I am glad we agree. I hate it when we fight...Phew, I am glad we agree. I hate it when we fight!;0)<BR/>I was pretty sure it was just a misunderstanding on my part.<BR/><BR/>See, that was a reasonable dialogue and agreement. I would love to see that take place with the Mullahs or Kim Jung Ill, as many moonbat generals propose. What planet do they live on?Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04969685296436358865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155851554983851962006-08-17T14:52:00.000-07:002006-08-17T14:52:00.000-07:00Bob:Misinterpreting and distorting the message con...Bob:<BR/><BR/>Misinterpreting and distorting the message contained in the Word is a blasphemy. But with the exception of the Marxist liberation theologians (you know, the guys who say Christ was just Che Guevara born 2000 years too early), the left is trying to ERASE the Word, to delete it as if it had never been spoken.<BR/><BR/>The gospel of the Left is, paradoxically, that there is no gospel, there is no objective Truth, there is no divine guidance, there is <I>no Word</I> - and only when we reject the Word for the World, for our horizontal this-and-no-other-reality, will our minds be free.<BR/><BR/>Your question is better phrased: Who is worse, those who are ruining God's reputation, or those who are attempting to assassinate Him?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155851019307906422006-08-17T14:43:00.000-07:002006-08-17T14:43:00.000-07:00Lisa and Bunnies--I think we agree. I said " the ...Lisa and Bunnies--<BR/><BR/>I think we agree. I said " the truths embodied in genuinely revealed religions must be experienced, not merely thought." Unfortunately, I believe that in most churches, wisdom, which can only be experienced for oneself, is reduced to mere religion. Religion is supposed to be the framework for spirituality, but often it is just a skeleton with no flowing blood. Ideally one wants both, but it's clearly not always possible.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155848618154069142006-08-17T14:03:00.000-07:002006-08-17T14:03:00.000-07:00This is definitely not off subject. This quarter'...This is definitely not off subject. This quarter's issue of <B>Enlightenment</B> magazine "From the Blogosphere" below his photo says this about Bob (below his photo):<BR/><BR/>"Dubbing himself an extreme seeker and off-road spiritual aspirant, <B>Robert Godwin</B> has a way with words, and his words have a way of describing the spirit. Trained as a clinical psychologist, Godwin has a free-ranging pen and his blog covers a lot of territory, but he particularly shines when his mind roams over the nature of evolution -- both cosmic and cultural.<BR/><BR/>Inspired by <B> Whitehead, Wilbert, Teilhard de Chardin, Aurobindo</B>, and others, Godwin's revelatory "adventure in consciousness" is lighthearted even as he reveals how humans reflect the cosmos they live in and why to know ourselves is to peer into the structure of this mysterious universe. Some might take issue with his politics (he eviscerates the left and calls liberals adolescents), but there is plenty here to keep your mind on higher matters and your spirit aloft."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155847576479092522006-08-17T13:46:00.000-07:002006-08-17T13:46:00.000-07:00"As I was at pains to point out in One Cosmos, the..."As I was at pains to point out in One Cosmos, the truths embodied in genuinely revealed religions must be experienced, not merely thought. This is really not much different than, say, psychology. You can read all about the criteria for a depression or panic attack in the DSM, but unless you have actually experienced a panic attack, the words don’t really convey the experience. If anything, they might even convince you that you understand it because you have the words for it, but the words are merely pointers or place markers."<BR/><BR/>I am afraid I have to slightly part company with you here. I do believe it is possible to have a close relationship with God without being part of a formal organized religion or place of worship. In fact, the more knowledge I gather and experience throughout life, the closer I do feel to God. It seems hard to escape sometimes. I personally have not found an organized group of people or one set of traditions that I want to base my life around. I am intensely fascinated by religion and reading about it, but there is not one that exists now that I want to follow. I have no problems with other people practicing a certain religion, as long as it does not seek to actively harm others that do not, as is the case with Islam. In fact, I am appalled that Islam is even considered a religion. I view it as more of a death cult, satanic in nature.<BR/><BR/>I think I have a streak of independence that does not mesh well with organized religion. I try to lead a life that helps others, as well as myself, and enjoy a life of freedom and choice. I also feel close to God, as if I really had a choice! ;0) Maybe there will come a time when I can appreciate sitting through a religious service without feeling like it is a punishment. I am open to the possibility, but have not come across such a group at this point in my life. Perhaps I am a self-delusioned narcissist, but it seems to be working, so far!Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04969685296436358865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155846727275571062006-08-17T13:32:00.000-07:002006-08-17T13:32:00.000-07:00>>Passion for spirituality, as contrary as that so...>>Passion for spirituality, as contrary as that sounds, is necessary at some point. As someone once told me, spirituality is a matter of surrendering lusts, and the last lust to be surrendered must necessarily be the lust for God.<<<BR/><BR/>I agree that until the end game of spiritual develepment, passion is a necessary companion. But the passion of the Islamists, much like the passion of Dawkins or anyone else on the looney left, is purely destructive and regressive. This kind of passion is not an intermediary step of Spirit revealing itself. It is an act of the ego defending its territory and destroying its opponents.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155845706320949232006-08-17T13:15:00.000-07:002006-08-17T13:15:00.000-07:00>>the passion of the Islamofacists is not a step u...>>the passion of the Islamofacists is not a step up on the ladder to Realization. Rather, it is two steps backwards. It is an altogether denial of God. <<<BR/><BR/>True, can't deny. But the primal fire, is absolutely required for transcendence. The trouble with the Islamofascists is that they've come upon their passion - their paganism - way out of historical sync, therefore it constitutes an evil. Paganism had its necessary day up to about 2500 years ago, since then, it's been a regressive course.<BR/><BR/>>>Passion is not a stepping stone to truth. It is quite the opposite. >><BR/><BR/>I think this is central to the Great Paradox of spirituality: One really does need desire to reach a state of no-desire. Passion for spirituality, as contrary as that sounds, is necessary at some point. As someone once told me, spirituality is a matter of surrendering lusts, and the last lust to be surrendered must necessarily be the lust for God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155844245015725742006-08-17T12:50:00.000-07:002006-08-17T12:50:00.000-07:00Sorry if this is a duplicate post; I had problems ...Sorry if this is a duplicate post; I had problems with the original. In response to:<BR/><BR/>"The Islamofascists distort and disfigure Spirit beyond all recognition, not to be argued. But the passion, the primitive fire is there...and without the fire blazing at some point, there can be no transcendence, no sublimation of fire into Light." <BR/><BR/>Transcendence is simple and pure and no big deal at all. It only seems so weighty when compared to our ordinary consciousness. When contemplating transcendence from the relative points of view of individual or cultural consciousness, we perceive a great distance between ourselves and higher levels of consciousness. The differences between these perspectives are so fundamental that they elicit strong emotional responses - fear, passion, denial. <BR/><BR/>But these strong responses are merely egoic defense mechanisms against Truth. Passion is not a stepping stone to truth. It is quite the opposite. It is a trap set by the ego to hinder access to higher levels of Truth. Absolute Truth is necessarily found both within and beyond our Reality, internally and externally. But worldly passions of any form (even the spiritual search itself) focus one's attention entirely without. They are merely another veil of ignorance.<BR/><BR/>This is not to say that experiencing sustained transcendence is the least bit easy or that being passionate about something is innately evil. We'll all struggle through many at bats before getting on base, let alone hitting a home run. However, the passion of the Islamofacists is not a step up on the ladder to Realization. Rather, it is two steps backwards. It is an altogether denial of God. <BR/><BR/>And it is just one more example of transcendent Truth being subjugated to the material half-truth. In this sense, Radical Islam acts out their God-denial via the same general pattern the dysfunctional postmodern left uses, just in a more overtly violent way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155840600883304962006-08-17T11:50:00.000-07:002006-08-17T11:50:00.000-07:00And Dilys, thank you for that wisdom from the yeas...And Dilys, thank you for that wisdom from the yeast.<BR/><BR/>Nature abhors a vacuum, but the Spirit requires one.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155840461515616622006-08-17T11:47:00.000-07:002006-08-17T11:47:00.000-07:00I suppose the question is, who's worse, those who ...I suppose the question is, who's worse, those who give God a bad name or those who give him no name at all?Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155840130132809312006-08-17T11:42:00.000-07:002006-08-17T11:42:00.000-07:00>>They will describe themselves as spiritual, but ...>>They will describe themselves as spiritual, but draw the line at religious, as if it is an insult.<<<BR/><BR/>Heh, yeah, that's nearly become a mantra for the lib/left. In fact, I've heard it so many times I have to believe that it's a roundabout declaration for *their* religion - the Church of Religion Deniers, a.k.a., the Church of The Path Of Least Resistance. After all, a religion is a shared spiritual belief (in their case, a faux spirituality. They might not call it a religion, but that's what it is. <BR/><BR/>>>Perhaps the worst way of taking the name of the Lord in vain . . .is to use the name of God as a pretext to commit great evil, as do the Islamists. I’m trying to think of a worse sin, but I can’t at the moment.<<<BR/><BR/>I hate to say anything that could be construed as actually being in favor of the Islamofascists because they obviously are a monstrous evil. However, didn't JC indicate the one all-trumping, unforgivable evil is the denial of Spirit? The Islamofascists distort and disfigure Spirit beyond all recognition, not to be argued. But the passion, the primitive fire is there (albeit totally out of sync with spiritual/historical continuity, and without the fire blazing at some point, there can be no transcendence, no sublimation of fire into Light. Many of the Christian saints, prior to actually becoming saints, were eccentrically wild, borderline criminal, actually. <BR/><BR/>By contrast, the Spirit-deniers - the Ahrimanic left - are essentially passionless, devoid of fire, utterly subsumed by dull, lifeless materiality. And of course, their lack of fire means they won't resist the more dramatic forms of evil such as Islamofascism. In effect, they encourage lifelessness, lack of resistance to evil. They encourage despair and anomie. I think a good argument could be made that this is the greater evil. (pretty close call, though)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1155839734216571362006-08-17T11:35:00.000-07:002006-08-17T11:35:00.000-07:00Much of the "spiritual" chatter appears to be an a...Much of the "spiritual" chatter appears to be an amalgam of at least two agendas: <BR/>--seize & attempt to demonstrate some kind of unearned moral or other high ground "superior" to other people; and<BR/>--immunize the chatterer, or reader, or listener, against the hard necessities of actually <EM>doing</EM> a Teaching, of inner application to facing the beast within.<BR/><BR/>Both motives chime nicely with a "Religion: <EM>eeeeeuw!</EM>" default reflex.<BR/><BR/>I think that self-immunizing by being ad hoc "spiritual" is especially dangerous. As Garrison Keillor said in one of his essays about being a particularly unsocialized boy: he had read so many novels about society he thought he was in it.<BR/><BR/>The Fathers of the Eastern Church call self-directed spiritual presumption "prelest," and it resembles in a way the danger of being bread that has been baked before the <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2013:33;&version=9;" REL="nofollow">yeast has risen</A>.<BR/><BR/>In most counseling sessions, and I suspect therapy, the surest sign of unreadiness to engage productive change is the response tacit or spoken: "I'm already doing that," or "I know <EM>that</EM>."<BR/><BR/>Sometimes we're fortunate not to "already know" a great deal. The genuinely thankful, for instance, when told to be grateful, don't bluster, "I'm already very grateful, thank you very much," but become silently attuned to the beauty of gratitude, and agree sincerely, pleased to turn their attention, "yes, I could be more grateful." Tell a truly humble person he's proud, and he'll know just what you mean.<BR/><BR/>Any and all of this that's worthwhile is of course already neatly summed-up by the great who encourage us to live and tell how to live in that light.<BR/><BR/>"<A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205:25;&version=45;" REL="nofollow">Come to terms quickly</A> with your accuser." The Sermon on the Mount<BR/><BR/>"Don't push your evolution." <A HREF="http://www.thework.com/index.asp" REL="nofollow">Byron Katie</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com