tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post115340587072728265..comments2024-03-27T11:16:36.951-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: The Postmodern Prometheus: A God of the SapsGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153537133362587772006-07-21T19:58:00.000-07:002006-07-21T19:58:00.000-07:00I'm reading Etienne Gilson's Gifford's right now. ...I'm reading Etienne Gilson's Gifford's right now. From the 30's. "The Spirit of Medieval Philosophy".<BR/><BR/>I get about half of it. Okay, a tenth of it.<BR/><BR/>But I have to confess that certain minds just fascinate me - the kind of people that are so smart I do not know how their brains fit through a door.<BR/><BR/>They know things that always make me wonder how one mind could know all that, and understand all that, and analyze and interpret all that.<BR/><BR/>Gilson is one of those people.<BR/><BR/>It's like looking at the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Besides anything else, you just wonder, "Who painted all that? It's impossible."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153500203518742792006-07-21T09:43:00.000-07:002006-07-21T09:43:00.000-07:00Dilys -(Head slap!) Yes, of course. Just never app...Dilys -<BR/>(Head slap!) Yes, of course. Just never applied that idea, which I completely grasp in other life areas to the Work.<BR/>Siily me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153499776278803782006-07-21T09:36:00.000-07:002006-07-21T09:36:00.000-07:00I'm beginning to wonder if we've got some non-loca...I'm beginning to wonder if we've got some non-local-intersubjecivity-cables crossing into a party line somewhere out there... either way I'm enjoying it - hope there's no extra charge on the final bill ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153497420093453442006-07-21T08:57:00.000-07:002006-07-21T08:57:00.000-07:00Van--Weird synchronicity--I was thinking the very ...Van--<BR/><BR/>Weird synchronicity--I was thinking the very same thing myself yesterday, and may well post on it this weekend. Every morning, as I work on my post, it is as if I am searching for something that is on "the tip of my brain," waiting for the pieces to come together and cohere. It is both "here" and "not here" at the same time, existing in a virtual space as a sort of cognitve attractor. <BR/><BR/>This is exactly how Polanyi describes the strucure of thought.<BR/><BR/>Also, your idea of the cognitive "org chart" comports very nicely with Matte Blanco's idea of the bi-logical structure of the mind. The unconscious mind operates by what he calls "symetrical logic," which has many fascinating implications. I'll try to post about it this weekend.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153496655291156182006-07-21T08:44:00.000-07:002006-07-21T08:44:00.000-07:00"In other words, consciousness is not linear but h..."In other words, consciousness is not linear but holographic; the conscious and unconscious minds are complementary and indespensable to one another" I really like the imagery here. It gives me something to fasten some thoughts I've been having, onto. In so far as it's possible to imagine the unconcious, I'm beginning to think that it's more a system of relations between thoughts than thoughts themselves....<BR/><BR/>This analogy I'm about to use is a bit... cheesy, feels a bit like being reduced to drawing a portrait of a dignified person, say George Washington, onto a Whoopie Cushion, but it's the best I've got at the moment - , but please humor me and imagine the mind as an Org Chart. An Org Chart run wild, with lines spidering out to connect different People to their roles & responsibilities... I'm imagining the Unconcious as that part of the chart that is the system of connecting lines, and the boxes as concrete ideas or "data". The lines don't contain data, but they make the data meaningful by relating it, integrating it with other data. <BR/><BR/>We've all had the feeling of someone's name being right on the tip of your tongue, but you can't quite say it, you almost feel like you've got a hold of it, it's right in your grasp,and yet it isn't until you release it, in this analogy, letting go of the line, that connecting strand of the unconcious, when you stop trying to "read" data from it which it does not and never will have, and just let it carry your attention to the data your looking that you're looking for - then the name suddenly pops out of your mouth.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't want to reduce "it" to just lines, because it's a living part of you, maybe even a localized part of that living intersubjecivity that our Neologizing punster-Meister, Gagdad Bob is always pointing towards...? Just a thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153494615803100152006-07-21T08:10:00.000-07:002006-07-21T08:10:00.000-07:00Hi, Sal,Technically, no. All the purportedly waste...Hi, Sal,<BR/><BR/>Technically, no. All the purportedly wasted energy just brought us right here, right now, to a Very Fine Moment. I don't mind Smithville. It's on the way to Houston. Or something.<BR/><BR/>We don't until we do. We do until we don't.<BR/><BR/>And that's the truth...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153493583873442332006-07-21T07:53:00.000-07:002006-07-21T07:53:00.000-07:00My late grandfather, who went from being an East T...My late grandfather, who went from being an East Texas farmer's son to the regional manager of an oil company, was a big Carnegie fan. Like Bob's dad, I think it was just a good fit, something that came naturally to him.<BR/><BR/>The older I get, the more I encourage people to seize being themselves (supposing that themselves are not dangerous, obnoxious or severely dysfunctional, etc.)with or without permission. It takes most of us a very long time to figure out who that might be, alas.<BR/><BR/>Alan is right on about the lack of role models.<BR/><BR/>Dillys - when your answer to "Who would you be w/o this thought?" is always "calm", it makes you regret all that wasted energy, no?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153492362361120812006-07-21T07:32:00.000-07:002006-07-21T07:32:00.000-07:00Likewise, my very-much-beloved late father-in-law,...Likewise, my very-much-beloved late father-in-law, not a natural smoothie [how like his younger son xoxoxox] -- but teachable [ditto] -- said it had been important to him to read Dale Carnegie, probably in the late 30's.<BR/><BR/>A <A HREF="http://www.westegg.com/unmaintained/carnegie/win-friends.html" REL="nofollow">lot of it</A> is what used to be associated with "good breedomg" and natural leaders. Catching flies with honey... As such, it was an important gesture toward democratization and functional equality. It's almost unimaginable to recapture what mass culture was like all those years ago -- raw, and at the same time, very constrained.<BR/><BR/>Vivid modern contrast -- ghastly ignorant marketing -- <A HREF="http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/004352.html" REL="nofollow">linked</A> today by Glenn Reynolds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153491268689202502006-07-21T07:14:00.000-07:002006-07-21T07:14:00.000-07:00Interrupting work on today's post to say that this...Interrupting work on today's post to say that this is all very funny--My father too thought that a quick skim of Dale Carnegie would cure my adolescent self-consciousness and lack of self-confidence. It never could have worked for me, but he believed it had worked for him. He was such a smoothie. I don't think he ever had an exchange with someone wherein the other person didn't feel better for having had it. For whatever reason, it "clicked" with his natural personality style, and probably just gave him permission to be himself.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153490704846717002006-07-21T07:05:00.000-07:002006-07-21T07:05:00.000-07:00Incidentally, Alan, a powerful discussion of the D...Incidentally, Alan, a powerful discussion of the Descent into Hell is from <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0521891477/sr=1-1/qid=1153489879/ref=sr_1_1/102-5456518-5180969?ie=UTF8&s=books" REL="nofollow">Hans Urs von Balthasar</A>, with compelling "geographical" metaphors. <BR/><BR/>Yep, you have to be a little older to appreciate the impact of Dale Carnegie on a self-help industry now much degraded. He was a great inspiration to the comparatively naive but good-hearted readers of the generation of the early 20th C. He's really a pioneer of a popular understanding of intersubjectivity. Unreadable now, IMO.<BR/><BR/>The Dalai Lama's gentle public exchanges, and Stephen Mitchell's <EM>Tao Te Ching</EM> translation, show attention to the intersubjective space <EM>and</EM> The Great Within.<BR/><BR/>Having struck a pseudo-Olympian pose of <EM><B>Individualist</EM></B> most of my life, I am coming to appreciate intersubjectivity. "Man is a social animal," "It is not good for man to be <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=2&verse=18&version=9&context=verse" REL="nofollow">alone</A>," and "He puttest the <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2068:6;&version=45;" REL="nofollow">solitary in families</A>." Intersubjective space, <A HREF="http://www.thework.com/index.asp" REL="nofollow">vacuumed</A> of the more deadening projections, is a space full of <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2013:52;&version=47;" REL="nofollow">old and new</A> treasures, a la Winicott and others.<BR/> <BR/>YARGB surfaced <A HREF="http://www.palmbeachpost.com/pbcwest/content/local_news/epaper/2006/07/19/m1a_TIED_UP_0719.html" REL="nofollow">this</A> example a well-tended intersubjective space in action yesterday. It is also instructive as to the value of not over-thinking some situations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153483117633854422006-07-21T04:58:00.000-07:002006-07-21T04:58:00.000-07:00Long before Anthony Robbins there was an author, w...Long before Anthony Robbins there was an author, who's name I can't remember, who wrote a book that my father foisted on me during my angst filled teen years titled "How to Win Friends and Influence People". Within the first few pages I realized it was a book on how to manipulate and use people to your own advantage, and, therefore, not for me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153474724652334842006-07-21T02:38:00.000-07:002006-07-21T02:38:00.000-07:00Bob -Many interesting concepts in this post... not...Bob -<BR/><BR/>Many interesting concepts in this post... not the least of which is the <BR/>"Great Within".<BR/><BR/>Perhaps this is the same thing I've encountered on my own....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153455692001100392006-07-20T21:21:00.000-07:002006-07-20T21:21:00.000-07:00Alright Abdul, now you need to stay out of my mind...Alright Abdul, now you need to stay out of my mind too! This is from a post I just put up that I've been fiddling with for a couple days:<BR/><BR/>...And why is it that we are susceptible to being taken over by that language - like in Mary Shelly's Frankenstein (subtitled The Modern Prometheus), that ever popular Sci-Fi theme of Technology overcoming it's Creators, of Robots going from serving people to enslaving their creators whom they once served. Language can be used to lift you on high, or drag you down into interior darkness. Language might best be looked upon, depending on it's relationship to your Mind, as either Prometheus’s Fire or a Frankenstein’s Monster. If your use of language descends from Prometheus, from high level concepts, it will energize & lift you up...<BR/><BR/>I just posted it, then clicked over to see what was up on your site and Whamo! Vu-JaDe!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153449725630037992006-07-20T19:42:00.000-07:002006-07-20T19:42:00.000-07:00I like! Duly noted and placed in shopping cart. ...I like! Duly noted and placed in shopping cart. I've read so many of the Gifford Lectures, I don't know how I missed this fellow.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153448189801417572006-07-20T19:16:00.000-07:002006-07-20T19:16:00.000-07:00You really do sound like Thomas Aquinas some days....You really do sound like Thomas Aquinas some days. I mean that as a compliment.<BR/><BR/>There is another modern philospher who you remind of a bnit too. He's got a 'logic' where the 'positive includes and is constituted by the negative'; where the conscious always includes the unconscious; and many other things like that.<BR/><BR/>It's good stuff. Two main works. Google "The Self as Agent" and "Persons in Relation" if you are interested (two books out of one set of Gifford Lectures).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153439434607414252006-07-20T16:50:00.000-07:002006-07-20T16:50:00.000-07:00If you were from Massachusetts you'd be "Bob the B...If you were from Massachusetts you'd be "Bob the Buddher."Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153438107220326682006-07-20T16:28:00.000-07:002006-07-20T16:28:00.000-07:00Same story, other side of the earth.Therein the be...Same story, other side of the earth.<BR/><BR/>Therein the being followeth dictates of likes and dislikes,<BR/>And findeth ne’er the time to know Equality:<BR/>Avoid, O my son, likes and dislikes.<BR/><BR/>If ye realize the Emptiness of All Things, Compassion<BR/>Will arise within your hearts;<BR/>If ye lose all differentiation between yourselves and others, fit<BR/>To server others ye will be;<BR/>And when in serving others ye shall win success, then shall ye<BR/>Meet with me;<BR/>And in finding me, ye shall attain to Buddhahood.<BR/><BR/>Milarepa 1051 – 1135 ADAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153436125331437732006-07-20T15:55:00.000-07:002006-07-20T15:55:00.000-07:00Raise your hand, anyone who realized in an instant...Raise your hand, anyone who realized in an instant that today's title was a double play on "Frankenstein, or the Modern Prometheus," by Mary GODWIN Shelley.<BR/><BR/>I should probably stop putting in little inside jokes that only Petey and I will appreciate.....Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153433201146575552006-07-20T15:06:00.000-07:002006-07-20T15:06:00.000-07:00Dear Dr Gagdad,Outstanding commentary. Your criti...Dear Dr Gagdad,<BR/><BR/>Outstanding commentary. Your critique of the mis-use of quantum mechanics is excellent. We need have no uncertainty about that!Gandalinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09196550750055246901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153425923948028542006-07-20T13:05:00.000-07:002006-07-20T13:05:00.000-07:00Don't feel bad, Bob. The book I edited back in '97...Don't feel bad, Bob. The book I edited back in '97 ranks 737,017 today. Which is a 30,000 drop from yesterday.<BR/><BR/>I don't think it ever broke 600,000. But it was a commissioned piece, not a labor of love, and I don't get royalties, so I really couldn't care less where it ranks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153410087564268552006-07-20T08:41:00.000-07:002006-07-20T08:41:00.000-07:00Lisa--That's a very interesting way of looking at ...Lisa--<BR/><BR/>That's a very interesting way of looking at it: the One became nothing so that the nothing might become One--and everything in between.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1153409462645574032006-07-20T08:31:00.000-07:002006-07-20T08:31:00.000-07:00Great post, Bob. It is very interesting if you ac...Great post, Bob. It is very interesting if you actually look at what occupies the gaps, as well. The number of points between 0 and 1 is an infinite number. Amazingly, there are the same number of points between 0 and 2, that infinite number again! Thinking in those terms, movement is non-existent. No matter how far out you go, you always end up at the one. I believe this also explains the depth you are talking about. Not only is the word God, but numbers are too! <BR/><BR/>It seems one has to really try hard and deny many realities to escape God!(if that is even possible)Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04969685296436358865noreply@blogger.com