tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post114166245360291331..comments2024-03-28T20:04:20.286-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: The Adventure of ConsciousnessGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141829954759006742006-03-08T06:59:00.000-08:002006-03-08T06:59:00.000-08:00LiquidLifeHacker, I totally agree with what you ha...LiquidLifeHacker, I totally agree with what you have said above.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141758040767161462006-03-07T11:00:00.000-08:002006-03-07T11:00:00.000-08:00One of the traits is realizing man's limitations a...One of the traits is realizing man's limitations and not taking everything personally. Understanding what Jesus mean't when he said "Father forgive them, they know not what they do." And then apologizing to God a lot for being an asshole anyway. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141745979353318152006-03-07T07:39:00.000-08:002006-03-07T07:39:00.000-08:00A couple of points:if we're using "consciousness" ...A couple of points:<BR/>if we're using "consciousness" as another term for "mysticism", consider that in the Christian tradition, not everyone is called to be one. This isn't a matter of Gnostic snobbery - "oh, that's much too rarified knowlege for you" - but one of vocation.<BR/>(See the 12 Chapter of I Corinthians.) Or, caste, as Bob explores in previous posts.<BR/>So, level of mysticism may not be the best criteria for judging the claims of Christianity. <BR/><BR/>Too, there is a pendulum effect at work here - the Church is continually swinging between the active and the contemplative, if you like. Chesterton compares this to a man drving a chariot between two walls, trying to keep to the middle and avoid crashing into either.<BR/><BR/>I am having a fine time kicking around the idea of everything as language.<BR/><BR/>I'd like to see the constancy of human nature discussed, sometime.<BR/><BR/>Feel better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141691829195271132006-03-06T16:37:00.000-08:002006-03-06T16:37:00.000-08:00For all those who have had less than positive expe...For all those who have had less than positive experiences with the various dogmas of Christianity, I would suggest that you do as the early Church fathers did, seek out the original text. Now after two-thousand years of "spin" we have many confused preaching to the even more confused. So as an exercise/mediation in "rebirth" I would seek out a book store with a selection of Bibles, and if you are in a hurry to be "birthed" then find a Bible with all of the words of Jesus in red print. Then spend a weekend reading only the red print. Ponder on that awhile, and if possible, let not all the "stuff" that good hearted (yet often misguided) Sunday school teachers put into your head, let it go, and with keen ears listen only to Jesus.Bro. Bartlebyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15980379263844521557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141685846418853132006-03-06T14:57:00.000-08:002006-03-06T14:57:00.000-08:00bro--"And to be "born again" or turned around, tur...bro--"And to be "born again" or turned around, turned toward the light of God, we surrender that "voice in our head" over to God, and God allows the Advocate to speak and teach and guide our thoughts. And as John says, the Paraclete is teacher as well as accuser (teaching us right from wrong"<BR/><BR/>Beautifully described Bro!!<BR/><BR/>-----------------------------<BR/><BR/>Khan--"One thing that has always bothered me about conventional Christianity is this whole notion of waiting around for a savior. I think the appeal of it makes sense ('don't worry, this friendly guy with a well groomed beard and flowing white robe will pick up the slack'), and it offers a way to project our desire to be 'saved' onto a metaphor instead of other people. <BR/><BR/>Khan, I know you didn't ask me, but here's my two cents worth since I like to share...<BR/><BR/>God put eternity on all of our hearts, and for me, I believe that Jesus has already "picked up the slack" when He suffered on the cross for our sins. I believe that when we humble ourselves and reach out to seek God via prayer with honest desire then we start to knock on the door. In Luke: Jesus said, "So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened." <BR/><BR/>I have had many people ask me about my choice, they have asked, "Why Jesus?" and I tell them, that when I pass over to the "other side" and leave this body behind, I truly believe that I will stand before my maker. So on this day when I will be held accountable for everything I have said and done in my life on earth, the only thing for me that will save me is having Jesus as my savior and my "lawyer" so to speak because I have asked for His blood that was shed on the cross to cover my sins. <BR/><BR/>Who else has sacrificed so that we can have everlasting life? What other choices out there offers us any good news for support and hope by a sacrifice for our salvation on that day concerning our sins? Some will say it can be done through good works, but I cannot lie to myself, there is no good work that can cover my sins that I could offer up myself. I have sinned in the past and continue to sin in the present. (I learn from my sins and feel remorse each time but I can't say I have long term sinless days. I keep trying! We all keep trying!) So I know that personally 'I alone' will have nothing of value to offer in defense of my wicked heart and tongue which have done and said such wrong things and I know in my heart that saying "I am sorry" or "I didn't mean to do it or say it" or "I didn't know how serious it was" on that day won't really help me, as we know that 'all' have sinned and 'all' fall short of the glory of God and that includes the souls out there that believe and those that choose not to believe. It includes us all! <BR/><BR/>I feel strongly that I have to work on repent within my heart now through prayer "much like a client does with a lawyer for an upcoming date" Prayer for me has become not only a close up and personal place to change my thoughts and work on my behavior, but it has also become a place to tell God my desires and my hopes. The more I am there (in the vertical or in prayer or whatever you want to call the type of meditation) I realise that the desire for what is in the other world with my maker that awaits us all is greater than the desires I have for this world. I catch myself dreaming less of all the coveting in these fleshly bodies that we have temporary time in and I catch myself desiring less the material things here I always thought I had to have and I more and more I start to step over and wonder with more open eyes on how I will compare 'over there' on the other side! I know that I will fall short and although many people would rather think on the afterlife punishments or wrath, my heart weeps deeply more on not being worthy for all my potential inheritence as there will be a time of rebuke and rewards! <BR/><BR/>Many people continue to deny that they will ever have to be accountable one day...but I believe we will all be held accountable. In my heart, God has shown me a way home and offered me His only Son as a gift on that day. I know it sounds really over simplified in the way that I am trying to share it here, but I understand that death is the wage of sin, but the good news for me, is that through Christ, I have a chance to live again and live forever if I choose to by accepting the greatest gift of love ever offered.LiquidLifeHackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01949269503629475002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141683881848832502006-03-06T14:24:00.000-08:002006-03-06T14:24:00.000-08:00Dr. Bob,Regrettably, I am largely ignorant about E...Dr. Bob,<BR/><BR/>Regrettably, I am largely ignorant about Eastern Orthodoxy, my knowledge of Christianity being confined to Catholicism and Protestantism. I look forward to your comments tomorrow (and hope that the nausea is better).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141683249527697502006-03-06T14:14:00.000-08:002006-03-06T14:14:00.000-08:00Kahntheroad and Bryan--Your kung fu is too strong ...Kahntheroad and Bryan--<BR/><BR/>Your kung fu is too strong today. I cannot answer your excellent questions by way of a brief comment. I will do so in tomorow's post, nausea permitting.<BR/><BR/>Bryan--One important point to bear in mind is that, from the Orthodox standpoint, Protestantism is a modern deviation from an earlier deviation (Catholicism). Christianity as it originally developed in the first millennium was quite esoteric and interior. That especially changed when the Roman church split away from the east and became much more imperial and outward looking in its orientation. The tradition of "unseen warfare" has always been emphasized in Orthodoxy. I will discuss more tomorrow. But I'm talking about a different strand of development that includes Origen, Pseudo-Dionysius, the Philokalia, and St. Theophan, plus the incomparable Meister Eckhart, who was Catholic but ran afoul of the church hierarchy for his deviant teachings.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141680433847236782006-03-06T13:27:00.000-08:002006-03-06T13:27:00.000-08:00"In contemporary America there is much talk of the..."In contemporary America there is much talk of the "born again" experience. You were a fallen creature wandering satan's horizontal playground, had a personal experience of the risen Jesus, and were saved. End of story.<BR/><BR/>I see at least a couple of serious potential pitfalls with this view. First of all, it reduces what I believe is an ongoing evolution to an either/or situation, with no clear appreciation of the unfolding nature of spiritual growth, and how difficult it is: that one must engage in spiritual warfare with body, mind and spirit, not just once, but every day."<BR/><BR/>A few days ago I made a comment about how the conflict between esoteric and exoteric Christianity was what had driven me away from Christianity altogether and into Buddhist practice, and the issue you raise here provides another perspective on that.<BR/><BR/>Christian doctrine, as I understand it, asserts that faith in Jesus is a necessary condition for salvation. In the Lutheran and Calvinist views, faith in Jesus is also a sufficient condition for salvation. "Salvation" is understood as salvation from an afterlife of separation from God and eternal torment, represented in the Bible as damnation in penal fire.<BR/><BR/>Now, if one holds such a view, which I believe was the view of the major architects of Christian doctrine (Anselm, Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin), then the role of spiritual practice (such as contemplative prayer) becomes questionable, all the more so if one holds to the protestant radicalization of the idea of salvation through faith alone. If faith in Jesus is what saves you, then practicing contemplative prayer or any other form of spiritual discipline as a means of drawing closer to God could be understood as a form of blasphemy, in that Christ is supposed to be your mediator to God, not some form of works.<BR/><BR/>And this is not just some tension that I have made up but was felt even by such an advocate of contemplative prayer as Thomas Merton, who explicitly says that faith in Jesus, not the practice of contemplation, is the primary thing needful.<BR/><BR/>I believe that this is the primary reason that Christian mysticism had to go underground and that the exoteric church frequently persecuted it. If one does a discipline like contemplative prayer seriously, soon it becomes apparent that the practice is effecting the transformation that one's previous faith did not.<BR/><BR/>And this is clear heresy. Damnable heresy.<BR/><BR/>I believe that Merton made the statement that he did not because he actually believed it, but because he knew that Christian doctrine required him to believe it, and he wanted to force himself to believe it, despite the evidence of his own experience to the contrary.<BR/><BR/>I would welcome any thoughts and responses on this issue from Dr. Bob or any Christian readers here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141680079395919002006-03-06T13:21:00.000-08:002006-03-06T13:21:00.000-08:00Bob,I'm curious about the sequence of attempting a...Bob,<BR/><BR/>I'm curious about the sequence of attempting a spiritual pursuit. You've proposed before that psychoanalysis is an important, if not essential, element for spiritual growth. Is it a prerequisite?<BR/><BR/>Is it fruitless to even bother seeking out the vertical when one is still bogged down with mind parasites and other unresolved horizontal issues? And to what extent must these be resolved, or tempered?<BR/><BR/>Or is it possible for an intense spiritual experience to turn the tide, so to speak? <BR/><BR/>One thing that has always bothered me about conventional Christianity is this whole notion of waiting around for a savior. I think the appeal of it makes sense ('don't worry, this friendly guy with a well groomed beard and flowing white robe will pick up the slack'), and it offers a way to project our desire to be 'saved' onto a metaphor instead of other people. <BR/><BR/>But is it the other way around: that you've got to clean the house first <I>before</I> 'Jesus' comes over? Is there anything to the idea of praying/leaning on 'God' to help you through? Or is that just an appeal to your higher self or inner strength?<BR/><BR/>Are there life changing epiphanies? Or is the only true epiphany the one where you realize that there are no short cuts?<BR/><BR/>Bob, when you treat a patient who comes in with a 'barrier to spiritual growth' what methods do you apply? Obviously, every case is different, but, in general, what is the process look like?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141678081867255812006-03-06T12:48:00.000-08:002006-03-06T12:48:00.000-08:00"traditional metaphysics teaches that human beings..."traditional metaphysics teaches that human beings are composed no less than three distinct parts: body, mind (or soul), and spirit."<BR/><BR/>I would say the human being as body/mind/soul. As Augustine illustrates, our soul the conduit between our mind and the Spirit. Or Holy Spirit, or as John called it, the Spirit of Truth. John further names Jesus (in the flesh) as the Advocate with the Father. Many interesting terms used, Holy Spirit, Advocate, Intercessor, Paraclete (parakletos). All acting as conduit between individual humans and God. As Hebrew scripture makes know, humans are incapable of standing before (touching) God, we like a tiny moth fluttering into the burning Sun. So through Jesus/Holy Spirit/Advocate/Intercessor/Paraclete we can know the ways of God. And to be "born again" or turned around, turned toward the light of God, we surrender that "voice in our head" over to God, and God allows the Advocate to speak and teach and guide our thoughts. And as John says, the Paraclete is teacher as well as accuser (teaching us right from wrong).Bro. Bartlebyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15980379263844521557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141677830451456082006-03-06T12:43:00.000-08:002006-03-06T12:43:00.000-08:00When Clooney said--- "And finally, I would say tha...When Clooney said---<BR/><BR/> "And finally, I would say that, you know, we are a little bit out of touch in Hollywood every once in a while. I think it's probably a good thing. We're the ones who talk about AIDS when it was just being whispered, and we talked about civil rights when it wasn't really popular. And we, you know, we bring up subjects. This Academy, this group of people ! gave Hattie McDaniel an Oscar in 1939 when blacks were still sitting in the backs of theaters. I'm proud to be a part of this Academy, proud to be part of this community, and proud to be out of touch. And I thank you so much for this."<BR/><BR/>I absorbed this as he was implying that it was a good thing to be "out of touch" with the conservative America and I thought it was really arrogant of him to give Hollywood all this "credit" as being on the front line of social issues as if the American people's mouths have always been ducted taped prior to seeing any of Hollywood's biased films on any given topic! OMGOSH it was like follow Hollywood because we can show you the way!!! The icing on the cake for me though of his narcisstic bloated speech was when he used Hattie McDaniel, because he fails to mention the actual stereotype part of a maid that that Hollywood had cast her into. "McDaniel and many black actors and actresses were criticized for playing in what people consider demeaning roles. McDaniel reportedly said she’d rather be paid $700 a week to play a maid than be paid $7 a week to be a maid." I only bring up this point because I bet it would suprise people to investigate the amount of money that Clooney's good old Hollywood academy (that he implies is on the front line before all of the rest of us on social awareness) was paying it's "white" actresses during that time! Hmmmmm...guess it's another subject they choose to either not bring up or just hope that those of us "out of touch" might not ever put a fingerprint on! I just roll my eyes at how these leftist live in a coccoon!LiquidLifeHackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01949269503629475002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141675866121242442006-03-06T12:11:00.000-08:002006-03-06T12:11:00.000-08:00Bob, on occasion the "jolt cure" wrought by a born...Bob, on occasion the "jolt cure" wrought by a born-again experience can seal-off the "issues that have never been properly dealth with."<BR/>True, all psychoviruses may not have been adequately defended against.<BR/>I hope you'll be writing about the "ancient technique of spiritual warfare" against these lingerers. Sounds interesting!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141673746820573782006-03-06T11:35:00.000-08:002006-03-06T11:35:00.000-08:00Thank you for another great explanation of your sp...Thank you for another great explanation of your spiritual path. I find a lot to relate with: evolution not revolution. My world didn't change but how I relate to it has. I don't have the same problems and the problems aren't so much problems anymore but the "salt" that spices my life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141672075988049562006-03-06T11:07:00.000-08:002006-03-06T11:07:00.000-08:00Yes--I think I'll refrain from answering Anonymous...Yes--I think I'll refrain from answering Anonymous #1's question and drawing attention to myself. However, I would invite any readers to discuss the very real and permanent ways that they have changed as a result of spiritual practice, as per Anonymous 2. When these things happen, they transcend any merely psychological explanation.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141671740899403582006-03-06T11:02:00.000-08:002006-03-06T11:02:00.000-08:00I have been reading this blog with interest for so...I have been reading this blog with interest for some weeks now, after being much impressed with "One Cosmos...". I might jump in with a quick altered trait that has been significant in my life, mainly the knowing that the line in the St Francis prayer is true for me: For it is in giving that we receive. This is the exact opposite of the hedonism mentioned in the post today and might be a early landmark issue separating those on a spiritual versus a secular path.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-1141667025052293732006-03-06T09:43:00.000-08:002006-03-06T09:43:00.000-08:00I have become much more interested in the issue of...I have become much more interested in the issue of altered traits rather than altered states<BR/><BR/>could you give an example of a trait you have changed as a result of your explorations<BR/><BR/>what altered traits would you recognize in an evolved person ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com