tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post1077125678902349474..comments2024-03-18T21:33:35.309-07:00Comments on One Cʘsmos: Sexual Secrets of the NormalGagdad Bobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-16411363141455259622014-01-15T06:19:46.845-08:002014-01-15T06:19:46.845-08:00Wow - has that comment been waiting in the queue a...Wow - has that comment been waiting in the queue all this time, or did this thread just stick in your craw for three years?juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-32534925124707339842014-01-15T00:20:56.529-08:002014-01-15T00:20:56.529-08:00Philmon,
Prager claims that
"Human sexualit...Philmon,<br /><br />Prager claims that<br /><br />"Human sexuality, especially male sexuality, is polymorphous...Men have had sex with women and with men"<br /><br />he argues that<br /><br />"Judaism's restricting of sexual behavior was one of the essential elements that enabled society to progress...To appreciate the extent of the revolution wrought by Judaism's prohibiting homosexuality...it is first necessary to appreciate just how universally accepted, valued, and practiced homosexuality has been throughout the world"<br /><br />Prager asserts that there is no evidence that being a homosexual is biologically determined, but even if it was biologically determined<br /><br />"if...society can successfully repress homosexual inclinations, it can lead to either of two conclusions — that society should do so...or that society should not do so...one could argue that people are naturally (i.e., biologically) bisexual (and given the data I have seen on human sexuality, this may well be true)...however, if this is true, the argument that homosexuality is chosen is strengthened, not weakened. For if we all have bisexual tendencies, and most of us successfully suppress our homosexual impulses, then obviously homosexuality is...surmountable and chosen."<br /><br />and therefore <br /><br />"it is society, not the individual, that chooses whether homosexuality will be widely practiced"<br /><br />Homosexuality should be suppressed because <br /><br />"The creation of Western civilization...took a constant delaying of gratification, and a re-channeling of natural instincts...the family is...a value that must be cultivated and protected. The Greeks assaulted the family in the name of beauty and Eros. The Marxists assaulted the family in the name of progress. And...gay liberation assaults it in the name of compassion and equality....At stake is our civilization."wildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14437167510102273197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-322525306355542412011-03-07T18:17:46.301-08:002011-03-07T18:17:46.301-08:00Ah. I see that Prager posits no such thing (that ...Ah. I see that Prager posits no such thing (that men are naturally bisexual). He presents it as a possibility -- one that might be raised to weaken his argument, but goes on to assert that <i>if</i> true -- which he does not say one way or the other -- it would actually strengthen his argument.philmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10385793223534322848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-81126057317018212312011-03-07T18:11:52.794-08:002011-03-07T18:11:52.794-08:00Yeah, though I enjoyed Prager's comment here (...Yeah, though I enjoyed Prager's comment here (thoroughly), if the article itself claimed that humans are naturally bisexual, I'm going to have to disagree with that assertion.<br /><br />If I made a choice it was unbeknownst to me. From as far back as I can remember (which is pretty far) ... well ... George Thorogood kinda summed it up for me:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNpo1z8bZg0<br /><br />I'm catching up on Badgdad Blog here tonight. I'm finding that a lot of the things being discussed here are things I've been talking about over at my place and with "friends" on facebook.<br /><br />Finished "One Cosmos Under God". Bought a copy for a friend and sent it to him. And recommended it to another.<br /><br />Great book, and such a worthwhile blog here. I need to keep up better so I don't have to do these marathon reading sessions.<br /><br />And at some point I'm going to have to get back to my other books. And of course balance all of that with actually ... you know, living life.philmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10385793223534322848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-32612603145771500772011-03-07T17:34:53.708-08:002011-03-07T17:34:53.708-08:00This is the stage in which the opposite sex is reg...<i>This is the stage in which the opposite sex is regarded as 'icky'"...</i><br /><br />Somehow, for some unknown reason, I completely skipped this stage. I never understood the concept of "cooties".<br /><br /><i>"You mean you <b>don't</b> want them to touch you????"</i> -- me, [or an accurate translation of my thoughts] at a very young agephilmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10385793223534322848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-14014133028246281742011-02-27T12:21:40.954-08:002011-02-27T12:21:40.954-08:00Without my lovely wife's throwing arm this jok...Without my lovely wife's throwing arm this joke wouldn't have been possible. :^)<br /><br />Thanks for the Prager link, Bob. <br />Explains a lot.USS Ben USN (Ret)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07492369604790651538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-74424059191918720572011-02-27T06:00:37.690-08:002011-02-27T06:00:37.690-08:00Julie -- Also, unlike me, Prager very much wishes ...Julie -- Also, unlike me, Prager very much wishes to have an impact on people who disagree with him!Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-40056168698579871392011-02-27T02:52:11.979-08:002011-02-27T02:52:11.979-08:00orgasms
are something else
"O, God..."orgasms<br />are something else<br />"O, God..."gehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02015936407999495181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-25944877940248545432011-02-26T22:17:09.277-08:002011-02-26T22:17:09.277-08:00GB-
This is an absolutely spot on meditation on th...GB-<br />This is an absolutely spot on meditation on the nature of sex. You may be interested in Charles William's work on Dante, which addresses precisely this angle of Romanticism & the West via sublimated sexual love.Matthew C Smallwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08234878138545287306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-78306453770886246132011-02-26T21:21:12.376-08:002011-02-26T21:21:12.376-08:00Re. Prager, that does make sense, given that he...Re. Prager, that does make sense, given that he's arguing while trying to achieve clarity, which generally requires keeping things to a level that your intended audience can comprehend.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-15664294038572049132011-02-26T20:10:14.944-08:002011-02-26T20:10:14.944-08:00I think so too.I think so too.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-66809625345313867722011-02-26T20:08:08.339-08:002011-02-26T20:08:08.339-08:00I think he was trying to stay on a sociological, p...I think he was trying to stay on a sociological, psychological, and anthropological level specifically because most people -- and all elites -- simply tune out purely religious arguments.Gagdad Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249005793605006679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-52361194795999808612011-02-26T19:41:35.922-08:002011-02-26T19:41:35.922-08:00Wild,
You may be surprised that although I thought...Wild,<br />You may be surprised that although I thought Prager made many good points, with all due respect to him, I didn't care for the article all that much. Seemed a little cold or deadpan or scientistic when the central point should be about the sacred aspect. As I said, with all due respect. Maybe after I spend some time with the guy I'll warm up to him. No offense to fans.<br /><br />What it lacks, I think, is that it seems to stop short of having an absolute point. As I understand it, from reading the work of theologians, early fathers, the Orthodox and such, God does not wish us to be moral and love each other as if that is the end of it. As if He just wants Him to be over here and us over there in the world having healthy relationships and not hurting each other and loving each other, peace and love.<br />He wants us to have those things certaily, but as they are on a way toward returning to Him. Prager hints at this when he says - to go from Animal-like to God-like. But even that is not enough. Since we are all fallen by nature of being man, God loves us and wants us to return. As we are learning in Inferno, one must be suitable for that place. You could say that that is what is meant when that person says arrested development.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589423819039764711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-89022761131432122912011-02-26T18:15:45.539-08:002011-02-26T18:15:45.539-08:00Male homosexuality is bad because it fails to lead...Male homosexuality is bad because it fails to lead to children, and it has a negative effect on women. Although a Middle Eastern approach to the status of women it not what comes immediately comes to mind as a tradition that elevates the importance of women, if you look at, for example, the cult of the Virgin in C12th medieval Europe, a good case can be made that the Christian tradition did elevate the status of women. According to Prager Judaism makes it clear that not to marry is a less holy life. I have no reason to doubt it. Although in Christianity there seems to be (from at least Paul onwards) a different traditions, that favours celibacy, at least in the priesthood. <br /><br /> <br />So far so good. Then comes the conclusion. If I jump to the end. Prader suggests that denying or delaying gratification has been a key element in the the creation of Western civilization. This (to some extent) is clearly true. I say to some extent because all civilized behaviour requires restraint, and, conversely, the industrial revolution which generated the wealth which enables us to have our high living standards, was driven by prior consumer demand, but as a basic principle it is clearly correct. We are then offered the conclusion that it is biologically normal for men and women to reproduce. Well indeed. Why have a reproductive apparatus? So have I reached the end of the article and found nothing really to disagree with? <br /><br />Nope.<br /><br />Prager rushes through the bit upon which the whole weight of the article depends. He claims that humans are naturally bisexual. <br /><br />He claims that humans are not biologically programmed to have a sexual identity, and therefore homosexuality is a choice.<br /><br />Prager then suggests that homosexuality is an illness. He says that Freud (that well known reliable inquirer) claimed that homosexuality is arrested development, and that a different psychoanalyst (this time called called Rangell) said that he had never seen a male homosexual who did not have a phobia of a vagina!<br /><br />Well giving Prager the benefit of the doubt that these claims are not incompatible, we have <br /><br />Homosexuality is a choice - which leads to a mental disorder.<br /><br />Mental disorder has bad consequences for both the individual and for society – and therefore it would be better for everybody if people did not decide to be homosexual. So if we accept (we are pushing onto shaky ground here but let us grant this assumption that homosexuality is in some sense a mental disorder) we are left with a bold claim. We are naturally bisexual. Which is to say we are naturally mentally disordered. We can choose the ordered state of heterosexuality or the disordered state of homosexuality. As a society we ought to seek (I am presuming that killing people or imprisoning people for homosexuality is not what is being advocated) to persuade people not to become homosexual. All very logical.<br /><br />Except with an obvious little flaw. If we are not naturally bisexual, and homosexuality is not a choice, the whole argument collapses.wildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14437167510102273197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-77970359251833671242011-02-26T18:15:08.426-08:002011-02-26T18:15:08.426-08:00Sorry I only just now had a chance to look at the ...Sorry I only just now had a chance to look at the article by Dennis Prager. <br /><br />I notice that he claims that when Judaism demanded that all sexual activity be channelled into marriage, this rendered Western civilization possible. He also makes it clear, in a post on these pages, that he is against homosexual marriage.<br /><br />The first claim may or may not be true, I do not rule it out as true, although I think it probably isn't, it may be true to some extent, and there certainly was a Western tradition of marriage in which Christianity has played a major role. If it is true that it is the Jewish tradition of marriage that was foundational, I think it is a very interesting claim, which may even be true.<br /><br />But it is in obvious conflict with the second view, which rejects homosexual marriage. For what it is worth I think marriage makes sense within the context of bringing up children, so if I was asked to be decide about gay marriage I would be against it. <br /><br />So where are we so far? Well I am agreeing that closed marriages may well have been a major part of the success of the West, and with regard to the issue of "gay marriage" being against it does not seem to me to be unreasonable.<br /><br />So I read on.....<br /><br />Prager quotes David Greenberger who claims that no early civilization prohibited homosexuality, and that it was Jewish Tradition (followed by Christianity and Islam) that invented the forbidding of homosexuality. Again I find this an interesting idea, and although I doubt it, because I would be surprised if some degree of hostility towards (male) homosexuality was pretty universal in human cultures, but once again, if it is true, and it may well be, it is an interesting claim.<br /><br />Prager asserts that those who declare that homosexuality is compatible with Judaism or Christianity bear the burden of proof that their claim can be reconciled with their Bible, given not only the condemnation of it (along with lots of other prohibitions such as cutting your hair or mixing different fabrics in the same item of clothing) in not only the Old Testament, but by Paul in the New Testament (the gospels make no mention of the subject) and once again I think this judgement is fair enough. The claim seems to be (if Paul not Jesus is our authority) that homosexuality goes against Nature, and therefore it should be condemned.<br /><br />You could argue that it is in the NATURE of homosexual men to be homosexual, but let us not quibble. Let us just conclude that for Paul homosexuality is not good. Prager reminds us that the Old Testament lists it as amongst the "abominations" (along with worship of idols presumably) practised by the peoples living in the land that will be conquered by the Jews.wildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14437167510102273197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-65112757425413933612011-02-26T16:59:23.692-08:002011-02-26T16:59:23.692-08:00Asked my husband to look for the Musa DC at Border...Asked my husband to look for the Musa DC at Border's belly-up sale, but he found it at B&N.<br /><br />In his translator notes, he insists that a translator must first be a great lover- to the point that he sacrifices his personal inclinations, feats of expertise and literary conceits to the voice of his author.<br />IOW, his vocation is to let Dante be Dante, as much as is possible in another language.<br />Kind of a "marriage of true minds".<br /><br />A great read for anyone who likes to hear an expert (in the good sense) explain their creative decisions.Salhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13201226644704622876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-21160612380807028132011-02-26T16:24:43.677-08:002011-02-26T16:24:43.677-08:00The majority of new customs are old behaviors that...<i>The majority of <a href="http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/brooklyn/fdny-voodoo-sex-candles-caused-fatal-fire-in-brooklyn-20110225-akd" rel="nofollow">new customs</a> are old behaviors that western civilization had shamefacedly confined to its lower-class neighborhoods.</i> -Don ColachoMizz Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02325435271880036807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-62843673977253506762011-02-26T11:37:56.752-08:002011-02-26T11:37:56.752-08:00Off topic, deals at Borders.
I was at one last we...Off topic, deals at <a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/112178/5-ways-to-cash-in-on-borders-bankruptcy?mod=bb-budgeting" rel="nofollow">Borders</a>.<br /><br />I was at one last weekend that was closing. The line for checking out was wrapped around the inside of the store, but it was moving pretty fast. Notably, they had good deals on a selection of music CDs, including some Jazz albums.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-6721880886167167562011-02-26T11:14:59.763-08:002011-02-26T11:14:59.763-08:00There are humble individuals and arrogant individu...There are humble individuals and arrogant individuals on the right and on the left. But there is no arrogance like leftist arrogance. If you hold a leftist position, you know that you are smarter, wiser, and more moral not only than conservatives, but more so than the Bible, more so than the Constitution, indeed often more so than everyone who lived before you.<br /><br />Same-sex marriage is a perfect example. The fact that neither Moses nor the Hebrew Prophets, nor Jesus nor the Buddha nor any great secular humanist thinker, ever advocated defining marriage as between members of the same sex does not cause the Left to rethink its advocacy of same-sex marriage; it only proves to them how morally superior they are to Moses, Jesus, the Prophets, and everyone else who lived before them.Pragerhttp://www.nationalreview.com/articles/256814/nothing-sacred-dennis-prager?page=2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-23571348525772067412011-02-26T11:12:30.821-08:002011-02-26T11:12:30.821-08:00"As to our love, it cannot fail to be creativ..."As to our love, it cannot fail to be creative love if it is Christ's. Love that we had supposed to have no importance but for ourselves- love between husband and wife, parents and children, sisters and brothers, the love of friends- all these natural loves, if we love with Christ's heart, increase the life of the world, and build up the kingdom of heaven here on earth. That harder love to achieve, the love of our enemies, of those who hate us and persecute us, does not merely bring us pardon in our own sins, but is redemptive; it has a reach as wide as the cross, and not only brings nercy to those who are its object, but to the whole world.<br /> Every one who lives the Christ life, and therefore loves with the heart of Christ is adding to the divine love in the world, which is the only force opposed to hate. Whether they love their betrothed, their wife, or children, or their enemy, whether their love is happy and fulfilled or is one that they must forego and seem to frustrate, they are adding to the sum total of the love thst is redeeming the world.<br />-Caryll HouselanderSalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13201226644704622876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-49342236719845729402011-02-26T10:51:51.740-08:002011-02-26T10:51:51.740-08:00Re.
...heterosexual men [who] may look like they&...Re.<br /><br /><i>...heterosexual men [who] may look like they're having sex with another, when they are actually masturbating with a projected fantasy figure.<br /><br />***<br /><br />The girls create them, which confers an Eve-like counter-spiritual creative power.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2286240/pagenum/all/#p2" rel="nofollow">Apropos</a>, and <a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/phi-beta-cons/260750/sex-campus-and-everywhere-robert-verbruggen" rel="nofollow">here</a>.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-6315695630821342282011-02-26T10:35:48.134-08:002011-02-26T10:35:48.134-08:00Ben,
Too funny!
Mrs. GBen,<br />Too funny! <br />Mrs. GLeslie Godwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794375005614166921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-77188509289025150152011-02-26T09:33:47.935-08:002011-02-26T09:33:47.935-08:00Thanks for the Prager article, Bob - I've hear...Thanks for the Prager article, Bob - I've heard him talk about this in bits and pieces, but had never seen it all tied together in one place.juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975754287030568726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-60962855740302457172011-02-26T09:05:47.764-08:002011-02-26T09:05:47.764-08:00Well, God created homosexuality, so He knows what ...Well, God created homosexuality, so He knows what results He desires from it.<br /><br />WE sure don't. All we can do is guess. People with powerful minds, like Bob, back up their guesses with 1000 persuasive words.<br /><br />All perfectly useless. <br /><br />And, as far as the "can we talk?" comment: the utterance of the brave one who undertakes relationship maintenance tasks agaist the monotholithic resistance of partners who don't pull their weight.<br /><br />For shame. Relationshps require constant heavy negotiations. The "better not to talk" crowd are lazy and are shirking.<br /><br />So once in a while, YOU ask "can we talk?" and then your partner will get a glimmer of hope that you aren't going to be a burden for the rest of his/her life.Yeah, Right you Ninnynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8580258.post-8017005710562720632011-02-26T07:44:06.208-08:002011-02-26T07:44:06.208-08:00Prager, keep my paladins out of this...Prager, keep my paladins out of this...Magnus Itlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18445902788427523461noreply@blogger.com