Thursday, December 17, 2009

A Lucky Man Who Made the Grade

That's not something you see every night. I dreamt I was the goat of game one of the World Series -- mental errors, failing to cover, bouncing pitches, throwing to the wrong man, etc. Afterwards a sportswriter asked how I felt about my performance. "I'd give it a B+... Also, let's not forget the mess I inherited from my manager. After all, he was foolish enough to put me into the game, and how do you expect me to recover from a mistake of that magnitude?"

Let's finish up with Father Rose's account of the afterlife. Much of what he says will no doubt provoke the Jesus Willies in some readers, so I will take the liberty of translighting it into plain coonglish, in a manner he would no doubt disapprove of. As always, the Sons of Toots have no place to rest their heads. The folks we like don't like us, and the folks we don't like do. Oh well. That's why we have each other.

Father Rose notes that one way to distinguish contemporary near-death experiences from actual experiences of heaven, is that in the case of the latter, "the soul is always conducted to heaven by an angel or angels, and never 'wanders' into it or goes of its own motive power," like you can into a White House state dinner.

Similarly, in the near-death literature, one is often said to have the choice of movin' on up or "returning" to earth. But in real life -- or death -- this is apparently not the case. Rather, "the genuine experience of heaven occurs not by the choice of man but only at the command of God, fulfilled by his angels." In contrast, the typical out-of-body experience does not involve angels, being that it really "takes place right here, in the air above us, still in this world."

It reminds me of all the strange experiences available to a fellow who ingests a bit of psilocybin. To paraphrase Terence McKenna, there are whole parallel worlds teeming with activity, just a few chemical microns away from this one. But these are just subtle, or less material, aspects of this world, similar to the unconscious. All kinds of crazy stuff goes on down there -- see the dream above -- but that doesn't make it "heaven." These alternate worldspaces are still very much a part of this world.

Father Rose did say that there seems to be an increase in the occurrence of occult experiences these days. Why is this? In fact, Schuon made the same point, and felt it had to do with the law of "cosmic compensation" that -- and I'm paraphrasing here from memory -- makes up for the general spiritual deterioration of our culture with a very focused infusion of grace for the sincere seeker.

Thus, truly, it is the best/worst of times, an irony of which I am constantly aware. That is, never before in human history has the perennial wisdom been so readily available, and yet, never before has it been so devalued or just ignored by the masses. True, there is in a sense "more for the rest of us," the living remnant, so we got that going for us. Nevertheless, no sane person enjoys peacefully sitting in Upper Tonga while watching the world go to hell in a handbasket.

For Father Rose, "the marked increase in 'other-worldly' experiences is doubtless one of the signs of the approaching end of this world." This kind of statement is easy to misinterpret, but when he says "end of the world," I take it to mean something similar to what has happened in the past, when one world violently ended in order to give birth to another.

This has occurred on many occasions, and it is always a wrenching experience -- say, the end of the Roman Empire, or the transition from an agrarian to an industrial economy. People casually talk about the "information revolution," as if they know what it is. But we may have only seen the tip of a world-historical iceberg with extremely far-reaching and fundamentally unpredictable consequences -- as unpredictable, say, as the acquisition of literacy among the masses instead of just a handful of elites at the top.

We don't yet understand the consequences of the internet, and of "every man his own journalist," so to speak. FDR was the first president to capitalize on the new medium of radio, while JFK was the first to exploit television. We haven't yet reached the tipping point at which information becomes completely decentralized with the eventual death of the MSM -- which clearly does not provide useful "information," but a kind of top-down stability, a common mythology for the under- and overeducated. No one has any idea what will emerge from the complex and a non-linear system that results from the extinction of the state-controlled media.

When a system enters a chaotic phase, I think heaven (and hell!) is "closer," so to speak. Father Rose says that "as the present world approaches its end, the world of eternity looms nearer.... The end of the world merges with the beginning of eternal life."

This makes perfect sense if you apply the principle to your own life. Think of death, for example. When a loved one dies, you are plunged into a very different space; or, it is as if this one is infused with, or interpenetrated by, another. It's the same with psychoanalytic therapy, which facilitates a "willed breakdown," so to speak, so that a new consciousness will spontaneously emerge from the rubble. But it is an intrinsically dangerous process, because one really doesn't know what will emerge. Any therapist who promises outcome X is simply fooling you and fooling himself, because complex and non-linear systems just don't work that way.

Which, of course, speaks to one of the root fallacies of the left, the belief that you can tinker with one aspect of a complex system in order to arrive at the preferred outcome. Have you ever wondered why the very same people who believe in state control of the economy also believe in the pseudo-science of climate change? This is the reason why. Their minds are pre-programmed to believe that the world is as linear and predictable as their models of it, and that it is possible for the human mind to master the literally infinite amount of information in a system as complex as the economy or climate.

Back to the seeming closeness of heaven and earth in these troubled times. Father Rose writes that "never before has mankind been given such striking and clear proofs -- or at least 'hints' -- that there is another world, that life does not end with the death of the body, that there is a soul that survives death and is indeed more conscious and alive after death." But what do people do with it? Most seem to simply become more confused. It reminds me of the gift of literacy. What do most people do with it? Basically just waste it on garbage and trivia.

Now some intriguing details. Father Rose says that "the dying person's spiritual vision often begins even before death," apparently because the two worlds are drawing closer together, so to speak. It is as if the other world penetrates and infuses this one with a peculiar but distinct energy, something most people can experience when in the presence of the dying loved one.

Since premature death was so much more commonplace in the past, I wonder if people were much more aware of this space, or even lived in it most of the time? For them, the security we take for granted was an extreme rarity, if it occurred at all. People were not secure in their person, their health, their food supply, nothing. Thus, perhaps it was much easier for them to acknowledge the one true source of security in the Absolute.

This again speaks to the historical irony of contemporary man, whose increased security causes him to hold on that much more tightly to those very things that moth and rust doth corrupt, except a bit more slowly. Again, for this reason, spiritual progress is simultaneously easier and more difficult than ever before. Nevertheless, I give myself a B+.

37 Comments:

Blogger Jim said...

I give myself an A+ (first liar never stands a chance) ;-)

12/17/2009 09:09:00 AM  
Blogger walt said...

Mmmm ... I think you probably rate an A, even though you muffed that game in the Series. Most of the time when you come up, you hit 'em outa the park!

Your reference to Schuon jogged the memory. I found this by him:
"In former ages the spirit was more or less ubiquitous but was more difficult to reach and realize just because it was present everywhere... It was there but had a tendency to disappear; today it is hidden but has a tendency to give of itself."

As threatening as currents of events can seem, an understanding of "polarity" can help.

12/17/2009 09:14:00 AM  
Blogger debass said...

I think the left wants power and control so badly that they don't care about the consequences of their policies. They refuse to learn from history, where their policies have resulted in the deaths of millions of people. They just don't care. They want power and control at any cost.

12/17/2009 09:54:00 AM  
Blogger Northern Bandit said...

The Left doesn't just want power and control. The Left is satanically evil -- they want to destroy good and create chaos.

This week the far-Left BBC is hosting a debate on whether it is OK for Uganda to execute homosexuals. Under no circumstances would they EVER allow a debate on global warming science, but this African horror show requires a nice little chin-wag. Think about that for a minute, then tell me these people are not morally insane. I hope I'm not going nuts, but increasingly I see the Left as an historic tide repeatedly attempting to obliterate God. Which would sort of be the definition of satanic.

12/17/2009 11:51:00 AM  
Blogger Gandalin said...

You mention the wrenching aspect of the close of the era of the Roman Empire. Just a footnote. The replacement of the Imperial Roman government by the Germanic kingdoms of Odoacer, Dietrich of Bern, and their successors did not apparently change much in the European world. As the French historian Henri Pirenne showed, the barbarian kingdoms preserved much of the culturual and economic life of the Empire. It was not until the conquest of North Africa by the jihad shut down Mediterranean trade several centuries after the nominal fall of the Imperial Government in Rome, that the collapse of Roman life into the dark ages commenced. That doesn't really affect your underlying point, since the collapse of Roman society was wrenching whenever it happened, but it helps us to understand the mechanism of that collapse. The end of trade relations between Europe and North Africa and the Levant was what did it. The disruption of world trade by the jihad or by ecofascism could do the same thing today.

12/17/2009 12:28:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Debass said "I think the left wants power and control so badly that they don't care about the consequences of their policies."

NB said "The Left doesn't just want power and control. The Left is satanically evil -- they want to destroy good and create chaos."

I think both are right, the left feels that the vertical hides and conceals information and goods that they feel can and should be equally accessible, without precondition of knowledge or experience, to everyone, and they seek the power to break open the Vertical bookshelves & cupboards, and scatter their contents upon the ground for all to grab as needed.

Part of becoming a leftist, is obscuring, ignoring and forgetting the ability to discern the real existence, intrinsic necessity, and absolute hierarchical structure, of the Vertical nature of reality in general and Truth in particular.

Look at the most accessible of the horizontal priests, Keynes. As an economist who learned economics through the classical economists, he couldn't help but know that first comes Reason, then production, then (produced) property, then transaction and then consumption. That's a whole lot of upwardly hierarchical steps separating consumers from goods. To say nothing of the disciplined thought and virtue required to produce and contract within a cultural system of predominantly trustworthy inhabitants - all highly vertical in nature.

So what's an economist to do who wants to cut out the middle man and get right to consumers consuming? Right, ignore the inherent structure & legalize sweeping stuff from the shelves and into a non-dualistic splatter pattern upon the floor: Print money, give it to consumers, commence to consuming.

If someone points out that in the long run, such actions, enabled only by the existence of real wealth already having been produced over generations and saved the vertically old fashioned way, if someone points that out, shrug and say " as Keynes did,“most practical men are indeed in thrall to the ideas of some long dead economist", which neatly dismisses the uber vertical philosophers who uncovered that vertical structure which the whole economy depends upon, without even having to mention them.

If someone else will points out that in the long run, this dismissing of the requirements of production will exhaust the system and eventually completely disintegrate it, just shrug and say, as Keynes did, "In the long run, we'll all be dead".

Shrug, dismiss and ridicule any hint of vertical depths, and do so with the self satisfied assuredness of your own sharp 'intelligence' and ability and commitment to seeing 'what is real' without being cowed by any conceptual verticality - do that, and you are seeking and exercising power in the pursuit of throwing down what is Good and Beautiful and True, and having blindered youself from any awareness or feelings for what you've determined is evil (the Vertical after all does keep goodies out of the reach of those not tall enough to reach them... and any leftist will tell you that that is baaaddd!!!), you do so with a clear... ahem... conscience.

As someone said, C.S. Lewis?, the greatest accomplishment of evil was the illusion that it doesn't exist. What better way of accomplishing that, than by convincing the minions to blind themselves to the fact that they are it's minions?

12/17/2009 01:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Thom said...

I finished the Julian Jaynes book last night and his final thoughts echo your post today minus any mention of a real transcendence.

"This has occurred on many occasions, and it is always a wrenching experience -- say, the end of the Roman Empire, or the transition from an agrarian to an industrial economy. People casually talk about the "information revolution," as if they know what it is. But we may have only seen the tip of a world-historical iceberg with extremely far-reaching and fundamentally unpredictable consequences -- as unpredictable, say, as the acquisition of literacy among the masses instead of just a handful of elites at the top."

I'm fascinated by this shifting (or growing) consciousness. It would certainly seem part of the Divine plan. And it would seem that these shifts throughout the ages, though difficult to go through at the time, proved to be better and more beneficial for us in the long run. Is it plausible to think that it can perpetually continue this way towards better ends or are we truly headed to hell in a hand basket this time? How far can we possibly evolve and what will the real end look like?

12/17/2009 01:47:00 PM  
Blogger Northern Bandit said...

Thom,

Are you talking about the Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind? I read that literally 25 years ago. I remember at the time it was highly controversial, but deeply satisfying for me at the time.

12/17/2009 02:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So the BBC is left-wing and satanic because they are willing to air a debate on the Ugandan anti-homosexuality laws. What does that make the right-wing Christian theocrats who were actually involved in promulgating these laws?

Honestly, the contortions you people go through in order to fit the world into your retarded schemas.

12/17/2009 02:04:00 PM  
Blogger Jim said...

Yea, anon, that looks like a real reliable source - NOT!

12/17/2009 02:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Thom said...

NB,

That's the one. Highly speculative hypothesis, but like you, found it fascinating and not entirely irreconcilable with the Judeo-Christian worldview. The idea that the breakdown of the so-called bicameral mind is perhaps related to the Fall is interesting to say the least.

12/17/2009 02:20:00 PM  
Anonymous Jack said...

Still working on the idea of an "apophatic music" and what that might imply for music in general.

Two hints I can think of that seem relevant. I recall a lecture I went to a few years back on St John of the Cross and meditation. The speaker mentioned St.JoftheC's idea of "silent music" (a quick google search brings up 2 books "Silent Music: The Science of Meditation" and "Silent Music: The life, work and thought of St John of the Cross").

Also in the Hindu tradition there is what is called "anahata nada" which means "the unstruck sound". (not coincidentally the heart chakra is called "anahata"). What seems to tie these two ideas together is that this unstruck/ silent music is discovered/revealed during meditation.

And perhaps what we have lost (or what has remained relatively well-hidden) is a musical tradition that cultivates not only a "cataphatic"/struck sound/phenomenal music but more importantly an apophatic/unstruck/noumenal music.

GB- I just added John Abercrombie's latest "Wait Till You See Her" to my ECM collection. Step by step!

12/17/2009 02:48:00 PM  
Blogger Northern Bandit said...

Anon:

Not that you'd care, but people here have denounced crazy psuedo-Christians many times. The guy who murdered the cops a couple weeks ago in WA claimed to be a Christian. Anyone can claim that. It no more means that Christianity is fundamentally corrupt than the fact that America contains serial killers makes America fundamentally corrupt.

Did you think anyone here would support such people? You know, sort of like how the Left routinely acts on their "no enemies to the Left" maxim? Leftists in Copenhagen today applauded Robert Fucking Mugabe as he delivered a speech on "human rights".

I have yet to see anyone here support a scumbag of any stripe because they called themselves Christian or conservative or whatever.

12/17/2009 02:52:00 PM  
Blogger Northern Bandit said...

Anon:

The alleged "right-wing Christian theocrat" connection is in fact a miniscule ultra-crazy sect known as "The Family" which has about as much legitimacy to mainstream Christianity as did Rev. Jim Jones.

Now, Obama's recent appointee Anita Dunn pointedly praised history's greatest mass murderer (and card-carrying uber-Leftist) Mao Zedong. Back to Copenhagen, in addition to applauding mass-murderer Mugabe, the assembled asses also gave a standing ovation to vicious fruitcake anti-Semitic dictator Hugo Chavez as he railed against the West.

So basically what we have here is a tiny bizarre "Christian" cult consisting of maybe 50 people compared to the millions of left-wingers who apparently have no problem applauding people with a lot of blood on their hands.

12/17/2009 03:02:00 PM  
Blogger Northern Bandit said...

"The Family" referenced above represents the very definition of heretical. Some whacko has a dream where "God" tells him to basically ignore the Bible and instead practice Christianity in a diametrically opposed fashion. Well the Church -- and Christians generally -- have been pretty good at shedding heretics for a couple millennia now. Too bad the Left didn't have such a mechanism. Mao *cough* Stalin *cough* Hitler *cough*.

12/17/2009 03:11:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Thanks to aninnymouse @ 2:04pm for offering to demonstrate what I'd said earlier, regarding "Part of becoming a leftist, is obscuring, ignoring and forgetting the ability to discern the real existence, intrinsic necessity, and absolute hierarchical structure, of the Vertical nature of reality in general and Truth in particular."

So here it goes, starting off with,
Shrug -"So the BBC is left-wing and satanic because they are willing to air a debate on the Ugandan anti-homosexuality laws."

dismiss - "What does that make the right-wing Christian theocrats who were actually involved in promulgating these laws?"

ridicule any hint of vertical depths - "Honestly, the contortions you people go through in order to fit the world into your retarded schemas"

...which leads us back to "... do that, and you are seeking and exercising power in the pursuit of throwing down what is Good and Beautiful and True, and having blindered youself from any awareness or feelings for what you've determined is evil (the Vertical after all does keep goodies out of the reach of those not tall enough to reach them... and any leftist will tell you that that is baaaddd!!!), you do so with a clear... ahem... conscience."

Ok Raccoons, that's all for now, but don't forget to tune in later for more episodes of 'obviously intelligent' leftist idiots in action!

Now back to our regularly scheduled airing of OCTV.

12/17/2009 03:21:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

This may be off topic, but then again maybe not. I was just reading the Anchoress,, which touched off a train of thought that needed expounding. Or expanding. Or maybe it's just a quarter baked, I never know about thee things.

Anyway, thinking about cycles, death and rebirth, spiritual respiration, and Jack's anahata nada, along with a whole stew of other things got me thinking about how the heart works. To be filled, it must be open to the incoming life's blood, and to hold this precious substance it must relax and expand. But it can't simply stay that way, not if it's to sustain life. Once filled, it must first close off the intake, then contract, quickly and powerfully (violently?) enough to send the full measure of what it contains all through the miles of the circulatory system, completing the cycle and allowing the heart to be filled once more.

No mistake, I think, that the soul is so close to the heart.

And with that feeble pulse, I think I'll try and get back to filling up...

12/17/2009 03:39:00 PM  
Blogger Northern Bandit said...

Julie:

The Anchoress is a big Twitterer. I keep the number of people I follow down to a minimum, but she is always on my list. Lots of little nuggets from her throughout the day.

12/17/2009 04:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The question is, are raccoons fishers of men or keepers of the aquarium?

The concern about society in troubled times, discussion of the MSM, and so forth is akin to a Quixotic tilting at windmills.

Turn off the TV and computer, stop reading newspapers and book or listening to radio for one week while you assess your environment.

Check these:

Is my environment orderly and secure?

How is my food supply?

Are my family members reasonably content?

Do I have see physical or psychological harm occurring in my immediate vicinity?

Are other citizens going about their business in an unconcerned manner?

How are the hygiene, clothing, and behavoir of children you can observe? Within normal limits?

_______

Get centered and peaceful, look around, look at the horizon, look at clouds, feel the wind.

Then ask the question: is this a troubled, sick society? Based on what I CAN OBSERVE?

If the answer is no, then you have a case of media poisoning. You have been conditioned by the entertainment value of focusing on the problems of others in the media. You must decondition yourself.

______

When that is complete, you may identify one or two persons in your vicinity who you can influence. Find their trouble spots (what they are afraid of) and initate conversations about it.

There you go, soldier. You are oriented and back in the trenches. Think small first. Just one or two persons. Build it up later if indicated.

--Tapuwasi, very old, very gray, qualified to speak on the basis of years.

12/17/2009 04:05:00 PM  
Blogger Northern Bandit said...

wv: apeptock

My current client needs one. They have painted themselves into a potentially fatal corner despite my repeated warnings in writing.

12/17/2009 04:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Family may be "heretical" -- I wouldn't know or care. They may be obscure in the sense of being hidden. But they are hardly marginal -- there are a great many powerful Congressmen and other Washington elites connected to that organization, including James Inhofe who seems to have been part of the connection between the Family and Uganda.

There are also fairly close ties between the Ugandan anti-homosexual efforts and Rick Warren, who I guess is the most visible and mainstream Christian figure in America today.

But on your planet, the left is responsible for Hitler so nothing else matters.

12/17/2009 06:17:00 PM  
Blogger Mizz E said...

THE line breaks and the guns go under,
The lords and the lackeys ride the plain;
I draw deep breaths of the dawn and thunder,
And the whole of my heart grows young again.
For our chiefs said 'Done,' and I did not deem it;
Our seers said 'Peace,' and it was not peace;
Earth will grow worse till men redeem it,
And wars more evil, ere all wars cease.
But the old flags reel and the old drums rattle,
As once in my life they throbbed and reeled;
I have found my youth in the lost battle,
I have found my heart on the battlefield.
     For we that fight till the world is free,
     We are not easy in victory:
     We have known each other too long, my brother,
     And fought each other, the world and we.
And I dream of the days when work was scrappy,
And rare in our pockets the mark of the mint,
When we were angry and poor and happy,
And proud of seeing our names in print.
For so they conquered and so we scattered,
When the Devil road and his dogs smelt gold,
And the peace of a harmless folk was shattered;
When I was twenty and odd years old.
When the mongrel men that the market classes
Had slimy hands upon England's rod,
And sword in hand upon Afric's passes
Her last Republic cried to God.
     For the men no lords can buy or sell,
     They sit not easy when all goes well,
     They have said to each other what naught can smother,
     They have seen each other, our souls and hell.
It is all as of old, the empty clangour,
The Nothing scrawled on a five-foot page,
The huckster who, mocking holy anger,
Painfully paints his face with rage.
And the faith of the poor is faint and partial,
And the pride of the rich is all for sale,
And the chosen heralds of England's Marshal
Are the sandwich-men of the Daily Mail,
And the niggards that dare not give are glutted,
And the feeble that dare not fail are strong,
So while the City of Toil is gutted,
I sit in the saddle and sing my song.
     For we that fight till the world is free,
     We have no comfort in victory;
     We have read each other as Cain his brother,
     We know each other, these slaves and we.



- G.K. Chesterton 



http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/17/breaking-news-sydney-morning-herald-reports-11th-hour-copenhagen-deal-forged/

12/17/2009 07:12:00 PM  
Blogger QP said...

(Link repair)

wattsupwiththat twittered:

BREAKING NEWS: Sydney Morning Herald reports 11th hour Copenhagen deal forged:
http://wp.me/p7y4l-3Il

12/17/2009 07:26:00 PM  
Blogger C W Seper said...

Bob,

1) "one way to distinguish contemporary near-death experiences from actual experiences of heaven, is that in the case of the latter, "the soul is always conducted to heaven by an angel or angels, and never 'wanders' into it or goes of its own motive power"

2) "Similarly, in the near-death literature, one is often said to have the choice of movin' on up or "returning" to earth. But in real life -- or death -- this is apparently not the case."

3) "the genuine experience of heaven occurs not by the choice of man but only at the command of God, fulfilled by his angels."

4) "But these are just subtle, or less material, aspects of this world ... These alternate worldspaces are still very much a part of this world."

Obviously many of things stated my Mr. rose concerning OBE/NDEs are guesses at best and presumptions at worst. (I realize you aren't saying otherwise yourself). My problem is with the latter in the case of someone perhaps taking it for granted that any of these statements are based on any factual evidence. Of course they aren't. Anyone can experience a trip to other worlds whether through meditation, drugs, or a lengthy stay in a sensory deprivation chamber. Or you may be content to have a staycation and simply view those other worlds with the aid of something like a psychomanteum. All these methods work given enough time. When people like Mr. Rose, however, talk in authoritative tones about things for which there is no science to back it, it's best to be very circumspect. Even if one were to have a relationship with a sort of spirit guide, angel, chieftain etc, that affiliation is still is based on faith and trust and may end in deception.

12/17/2009 08:12:00 PM  
Blogger C W Seper said...

My second bleat is that, for someone who has had actual OBEs or astral projections, when reading books by people like Rose, or the even less attractive "Meditations On The Tarot" (a book I found so disturbingly full of misinformation that I couldn't begin to finish it), it never takes long to spot the lubber in them, although lubber may be an incorrect term since it seems they've never even had a first voyage yet. Even when discussing matters of other worlds with genuine experienced projectors, I've always found plenty of disagreements betwixt us all. I don't remember exactly how I came to meet Sirley Marques Bonham (an extremely bright physicist who worked at Fermilab for a time), probably at a UCLA sleep study, but it was very apparent from the get go that she was the real deal. CS Lewis once remarked that true Christians belong to a club where the members all tend to know each other even before meeting. The same can be said for projectors. If you were to ask either Sirley or myself about the physical aspects to the OBE/AP phenomenon we would likely give you identical information. I'm also certain she would confirm anything I were to tell you about the material traits of other worlds. But we would differ strongly about the spiritual/religious facets of the occurrences. She, for instance, eventually got very involved with Kundalini, something I could never agree with, and we didn't talk much after that; it seemed obvious we were on different paths. When people from all over the world who have had genuine OBE types of experiences cannot agree about the spiritual nature of them, why on earth would I consider for one minute the inexperience of someone like Rose?

One obvious thing Jess Hollenback brought out in his academic study, "Mysticism: Experience, Response, and Empowerment" was that people's otherworldly experiences more often than not seem conditioned by their cultural backgrounds. Thus, it's usually only among certain Native Americans where you'll find people who've had OBEs involving specific types of woodland sprites, among Christians you see angelic beings (sometimes even winged), among the Irish and Scottish you find fairies and so forth. What's more interesting to me are those who see things in those worlds that are unlike anything else, and those are the types of rare experiences I find worth studying. When you see something that has absolutely no rational connection with your waking life, then it's more likely that God is communicating with you through his dream decorators. I do believe, however, that there are those like George MacDonald who have what I refer to as a mystical imagination where they can also tap into other worlds without the physical disconnect involved for the rest of us. CS Lewis did this on occasion as well I think.

12/17/2009 08:39:00 PM  
Blogger C W Seper said...

Also, I made a short movie about Bradley Burroughs, a man born blind who was able to see for the one and only time during an OBE when he was eight. Very interesting. Obviously it does nothing to validate the experiences of those who have seen "other" worlds, but it says much about the OBE state when remaining in "this" world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNpp-8_XeSo

12/17/2009 08:47:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

aninnymouse said "...airly close ties between the Ugandan anti-homosexual efforts and Rick Warren, who I guess is the most visible and mainstream Christian figure in America tod..."

Your current leftist in chief, identifies himself as a Christian, as does his oh so pro-American pastor of twenty years... and then of course Rick Warren was chosen to mouth mumbly stuff at the inauguration... so being Christians, one and all, how do they tie into your conspiracy of dunces?

"But on your planet, the left is responsible for Hitler so nothing else matters."

Wow... spent the whole wad of your intellect already, eh? Well, of course Hitler was responsible for Hitler, and if you'd bother to examine your own political philosophy, and that of the National Socialist German Workers Party (my... that does sound right wing, doesn't it?), you'd discover the blatantly obvious fact that fascism is a leftist political movement. But I'm not really in the mood for that discussion now, having engaged in 37 of 38 pages of postings as Stormcrow, from here to here on that thread alone... I'm a bit bored with it.

However if you've the slightest glimmering of curiosity, and guts, read those posts, and you may find some surprises awaiting you in your inner leftist mantra.

Good luck.

12/17/2009 09:02:00 PM  
Blogger mushroom said...

GB says: Thus, truly, it is the best/worst of times, an irony of which I am constantly aware.

One thing that's blatant in the Gospels is that Jesus dealt a lot with the demon-possessed. God's doing the big Incarnation, so the devil does his con carne imitation.

A lighter version might be Iggy Pop and The Stooges meet Abba in Cleveland.

12/17/2009 09:26:00 PM  
Blogger Susannah said...

I wish they'd stop it already in Copenhagen...now we're about to be buried in snow this weekend. Hello, white Christmas (a first for this GA girl).

12/17/2009 10:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Van:

So the Nazis called themselves socialist. Well, the German Democratic Republic called itself democratic, did that make it so?

Honestly, 1000 postings to determine whether Liberal Fascism is the worst book ever written? Really there are people with way too much time on their hands. I doubt it's the worst; it's merely terrible. Only the extremely stupid could possibly take it seriously.

12/17/2009 11:41:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

aninnymouse said "So the Nazis called themselves socialist."

If there's one thing I learned there, it's that no matter what facts, histories, recounting of philosophies, etc, not even there own inability to answer key questions; there's nothing I can do to defeat 'Shrug, dismiss and ridicule any hint of vertical depths' (Gen. Honore would understand), and so I'm sure you'll never need to worry about facing the truth. Well... considering the nature of this post we're commenting under... not in this lifetime anyway.

wv:noness
heh... no-ness or none-ss... depends upon your perspective

12/18/2009 06:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Cousin Dupree said...

I call that progress. At least he's figured out that people who call themselves Democrat aren't.

12/18/2009 06:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Van: You get ridiculed a lot, I take it. Perhaps you should consider what the simplest explanation of that might be.

And I am ridiculing your ridiculous political notions, not the "vertical depths". The identification of your misunderstandings with some sort of cosmic truth is a symptom of advanced fatuousness.

12/18/2009 10:59:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

aninnymouse said "Van: You get ridiculed a lot, I take it."

blink.

heh heh... chuckle... lol... chuckle... ahh... Ximeze would have enjoyed that.

ninny, the only one being ridiculed so far is you, by your own words. It seems pretty obvious that you've no clue where your own ideas were formed, and you blather on making word arrangements as if they were empty ornaments to decorate your sentences, rather than as vehicles for conveying integrated meaning. Prime example of this:

"The identification of your misunderstandings with some sort of cosmic truth is a symptom of advanced fatuousness."

Lets look past the fact that the modern democrat party platform has far more in common with the nazi party platform, and delve a bit deeper, shall we?

Here's a few questions for you, if you dare to actually consider and answer them,

1. Are you able to accurately perceive reality?
2. Are you able to arrive at and comprehend Truth?
3. Do you have Free Will, or are your actions determined by your environment?
4. Do you, as an Individual, have the Right to make choices about how to live your life?
5. Do you, as an Individual, have a Right of property in what you have produced, material and immaterial, in your life?

Each correct answer, fits you for living a Good life, and worthy of self government and engaging in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Each question, if answered incorrectly, precludes you from moving on to the next question.
Each incorrect answer forms a fundamental position in the various shades of leftist 'thought'.

And one more just for fun, the abbreviated condensation of all five of the preceding questions, into one:
Do you believe in living your life by reasoning according to Principles, or by acting Pragmatically to satisfy the needs of the moment?

Believe me, assuming you answer as your previous comments indicate you will, I'll be enjoying not only the last laugh, but the only real one... continously.

12/18/2009 11:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. Are you able to accurately perceive reality?
Better than you, evidently.

The rest of your questions are possibly interesting philosophical issues when approached in a spirit of informed inquiry. When approached like a petulant five-year-old demanding yes or no answers, well, they are just stupid questions. And obviously ones that you seem to feel you already have the answers to.

12/18/2009 01:15:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

aninnymouse said "Better than you, evidently."

Lol.

Well done, you successfully defended the place you are stuck upon.

"...possibly interesting philosophical issues when approached in a spirit of informed inquiry..."

Possibly... yes indeed, possibly. One more question, do they have any value beyond 'interesting philosophical issues' to you? Do you think they should? Personally, I think that 'spirit of informed inquiry' is of central importance to a worthwhile life... not just something that is merely 'interesting'... you?

Oh... careful though... keep up the defense, shrug, dismiss, ridicule... etc.

Still laughing.

12/18/2009 02:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Vince said...

OK, OK, I'll just have to say, I think this is one of your best posts ever, Bob!

12/21/2009 09:54:00 PM  

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