Tuesday, April 14, 2009

On Honoring Truth with Knowledge

I'm just skimming the Theo-Logic while waiting for my brain to come on line, and I noticed an arresting phrase. It's in the context of a discussion of how the lover perceives the ideal within the beloved, piercing through the falsity, the veneer, to the core, or essence, in such a way that the beloved may be known to himself -- his true self -- through the gaze of the lover.

Then he says that in the lover's eyes, the imperfect image has "no right to exist," and is therefore not honored with knowledge.

That was the phrase that struck me: not honored with knowledge. This would imply that knowledge is a kind of honor that is conferred upon reality; more than that, it would mean that truth is honorable, while there is something dishonorable about things that are false or unreal. Therefore, to elevate them to truth is a kind of double dishonoring, for it is also a negation of man's highest potential, even his reason for being, i.e., the link between the Absolute and relative.

Now, there are lies and liars. We all know that. But there are also people who are lies; if there is truth in them -- which there always is, because no one can exist and not partake of truth -- it is accidental, whereas the Lie forms their substance. It is as if they have exchanged one essence for another, as a result of a kind of.... satanic eucharist, or "dyscharist." For truly, it is not philosophy but necrophilia, "the love of death."

In other words, they eat lies, they drink lies, they play with lies, they work with lies, and soon enough, the lie is so woven into their substance through this daily communion, that the cosmos is fully inverted. Not only has the lie become the truth, but the truth becomes a lie.

But it doesn't end there. Rather, in order to "go on being," the person will have to spend the rest of their life "consuming the lie," or else face a kind of "double death," for they will lose the illusion that keeps them going. Losing their illusion would be like awakening from a nightmare, only to find oneself in a real gulag. Therefore, they cherish their lie, even while resenting reality.

I hesitate to do this, because he'll no doubt think I'm honoring his right to exist by calling attention to him. It's just that I check my technorati links in the morning to see what people are saying about me, and it's such a pervect exhumeple of what we're discussing here. It takes what might be overly abstract for some of you, and makes it completely concrete.

It's such a transparent example, that it hardly requires comment on my part. Rather, I'll just let Mtraven speak for himself, so you can all understand the agenda underneath the mask -- an agenda which "has no right to exist" and which should not be "honored with knowledge" -- unless it is in the form of a cautionary tale for you kits who don't understand what is at stake here. i.e., your immortal soul.

"The left is about resistance to authority, God is the ultimate authority, Satan is the rebel, fine. Hail to His Satanic Majesty!"

No, he's not just being gliberal. He favorably quotes the patently diabolical Aleister Crowley, who wrote that “I slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on awakening; I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning." He also references the uber-moonbat Saul Alinsky, who openly acknowledged his debt to "to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”

This is sufficient to establish what we have said all along, that the left is not "progressive" -- for progress can only occur in the context of movement toward truth -- but reactionary to the core. They are not revolutionary, for that term is reserved for people such as America's founders, who were actually doing battle with the lie that is "the world," or, let us say, the "worldly powers." Revolvere is to return to the origin by "rolling back."

Rolling back what? Well, for starters, rolling back all of the accumulated lies of the counter-revolutionaries of the left. To cite an obvious example, this is what Ronald Reagan attempted to do -- to roll back the foreign and domestic reactionaries and counter-revolutionaries of the left, who have no right to exist (their ideas, not the people).

And now what is happening? Once again, the counter-revolutionaries, led by an acolyte of the devil-worshipping Saul Alinsky, are back in the saddle. Remember, he was merely following in the footsteps of "the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment..., Lucifer." In this regard, let's just let one of his clowns again speak for himself:

"Satan has always been a more attractive character than God, because rebels are cool and God is such an asshole. Aside from suborning genocide, getting all bent out of shape if he's not worshiped sufficiently, and other assorted Biblical atrocities, just look at the people he has speak for him on Earth. Who wouldn't want to be on the opposite side from such people?"

You see? It's all self-evident. Satan is cool and attractive, God is an asshole, the Bible is a compendium of atrocities, and Godly people are demonic. I never engage in polemic, unless I'm just trying to be funny. But when I say that the worldview of the left is precisely upside down and inside out, I am again being quite literal and matter of fact. Does not Mtraven confirm everything I've said?

Remember what we were saying about Schuon the other day? Of course, like any other human being, he was hardly perfect; indeed, he would be the first to remind us that there is no one good but the One. Nevertheless, on the whole, he was "patently angelic." I mean, I can literally never repay him for the spiritual assistance he has given me.

But here's is how a Liar sees the same person: "He's a theologian with a cult following; a member of a group of 'pereniallists' who disdain New Ageists because...well, I can't tell you, they seem about the same to me...." He includes a brief quote from Schuon, who expresses the truism that certainty of religious truth surely comes from God, for where else could it come from? I think we all realize that faith is a grace that we could never produce out of our own substance. But for Mtraven, this is "a sure recipe for mental disaster. It is almost a parody, a distillation, of the self-reinforcing parasitic brain worm model of religion."

Again, a fascinating inversion. One of Schuon's essential teachings -- and something for which he would never claim credit, for it is universal -- is that it is only the uncreated intellect that can participate directly in truth, since it is of the same substance as truth. But just savor this final pompous inversion, the coup de gracelessness: "[I]n the world of the intellect, where I like to locate myself, everything is open to question. Conservatives complain that the academy is left-wing; but it seems as if thought itself is left-wing, so it's really not that much a surprise."

This has a kind of perverse beauty, does it not? For it means that the highest "truth" is actually doubt, which means that the cretin who can doubt the most truth is the highest intellect. We call this the state of tenure, and on this we agree: "it seems as if thought itself is left-wing, so it's really not that much a surprise."

But when he uses the word "thought," we clearly aren't talking about the same thing. For us, thought is what bears on truth, or else it isn't really thinking, just "mental agitation." If it is only the capacity to doubt, then again, this ineluctably results in a "philosophy of stupidity." The priceless gift that is the intellect is the ability to know; and not just know anything, but to know truth and to know it with certainty.

Let's see what my fellow cult-leader, Schuon, had to say about the intellect: "The Intellect ‘is divine’, first because it is a knower -- or because it is not a non-knower -- and secondly because it reduces all phenomena to their Principle; because it sees the Cause in every effect, and thus surmounts, at a certain level, the vertiginous and devouring multiplicity of the phenomenal world." As we have said before, the intellect reduces multiplicity to unity in whatever realm it operates. Yes, of course, there is an element of doubt involved, but it is analogous to the catabolism that is necessary to metabolize truth.

However, for most men of the present age -- and again, this is soph-evident -- "the intellect is atrophied to the point of being reduced to a mere virtuality, although doubtless there is no watertight partition between it and the reason, for a sound process of reasoning indirectly transmits something of the intellect; be that as it may, the respective operations of the reason -- or the mind -- and of the intellect are fundamentally different from the point of view that interests us here, despite certain appearances due to the fact that every man is a thinking being, whether he be wise or ignorant."

Again, there is intellect and there is its caricature, the mere intellectualism of the tenured.

And what did one of my other favorite cult leaders, Sri Aurobindo, say about doubt? Satprem writes that "The day came when Sri Aurobindo had had enough of these intellectual exercises. He had probably realized that one can go on amassing knowledge indefinitely, reading and learning languages, even learning all the languages in the world and reading all the books in the world, and yet not progress an inch. For the mind does not seek truly to know, even though it appears to -- it seeks to grind. If by chance the machine were to come to a stop because knowledge had been obtained, it would soon rise up in revolt and find something new to grind, just for the sake of grinding and grinding."

Now, notice two things; first, Aurobindo had achieved the summit of philosophical intelligence, which essentially leaves one on a plane where the endless circles of deconstruction and synthesis are inevitable, with no nonlocal vector to guide them to their proper end in Truth as such. In other words, deconstruction is simply intelligence playing with the same facts to come up with radically disparate conclusions. Equally intelligent people can easily be on one side or the other of a particular dispute, or even arrive at opposite ideologies.

But this is not the path to Truth. Unless intelligence is infused with the descent of a higher light, it will forever remain on its own partial plane. Here again, Balthasar speaks of "the moment when one's own inspiration mysteriously passes over into inspiration through the genius, the daimon, or the indwelling god, a moment when the 'spirit that contains the god' obeys a superior command which as such implies form and is able to impose form." This is impossible in the absence of true faith (o) -- which is the real doubt, for it is doubt of the unreal -- through which the person divests himself "of any intent to give himself shape, who makes himself available as matter for the divine action."

Any being that is deprived of... truth, perishes in the long run from want of air and light. Love treats what should not be as it deserves, as something that has absolutely no lawful title to being and whose punishment is simply to have its existence overlooked. --Theo-Logic: The Truth of the World.

Therefore, we could never honor Mtraven, only love him.

46 Comments:

Blogger Van said...

"That was the phrase that struck me: not honored with knowledge. This would imply that knowledge is a kind of honor that is conferred upon reality; more than that, it would mean that truth is honorable, while there is something dishonorable about things that are false or unreal. Therefore, to elevate them to truth is a kind of double dishonoring. "

Oh... the bells... they are a ringing....

4/14/2009 08:25:00 AM  
Blogger jp said...

Mtraven also says:

"My intuition, which I can't yet articulate, is that there is something about the concept of God that can almost be captured in a formal mathematical way, something that makes it a necessary concept of minds that are conscious and have agency. God's ontological status is somewhere between Harry Potter (wholly fictional and arbitrary) and pi (an apparently inevitable aspect of some deep structure of reality). Or so my flailing intuition tells me."

You know, if Sorcerer was still here, you could probably spend all day here talking to him about math and your new quantum indetermancy therory of God.

4/14/2009 08:35:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

Then he says that in the lover's eyes, the imperfect image has "no right to exist," and is therefore not honored with knowledge.

Wow. I do believe one could meditate on the implications of that one for a lifetime or two.

4/14/2009 08:37:00 AM  
Blogger walt said...

Illustrating your point that:
Not only has the lie become the truth, but the truth becomes a lie.... is this from today's headlines, wherein the Dept of Homeland Security warns of "radicals" who question, among other things, the authority of the Federal Government.

And that statement about love by Balthasar:
Love treats what should not be as it deserves, as something that has absolutely no lawful title to being and whose punishment is simply to have its existence overlooked.This, I believe, is Objective Love. How different from the syrup offered by the New Age gang!

4/14/2009 08:39:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

Well, he does know one true thing about himself - his intuition is, indeed, flailing.

What's funny is that he can admit that, then expect still to extract truth from what is flailing (and presumably failing). That's like admitting you have no understanding of calculus, or indeed even geometry or algebra, then going on to assert that you're pretty sure the volume of water in an irregularly shaped lake is four. Because, you know, it looks like four. And anyway, since you haven't attached four to any particular quality, it can't be wrong. This, accompanied by looking upon anyone who disagrees (especially if they have an extensive understanding of calculus, geography, and the topology of the lake in question) with deep suspicion and hostility. Those who know other than four must be liars, or insane, or both.

4/14/2009 08:47:00 AM  
Blogger Warren said...

"rebels are cool and God is such an asshole"

Gnosticism - it's The Heresy That Wouldn't Die.

4/14/2009 09:08:00 AM  
Blogger Robin Starfish said...

empty container
would it be filled with water
cracks in the freezer

4/14/2009 09:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Cory said...

Well, since in the minds of these people God is no more than an abstraction (at best) and a perverse and dangerous superstition(at worst) then Lucifer is certainly nothing more. Therefore it is perfectly safe to taunt God while professing admiration and even allegiance to Lucifer. What's God gonna do? Zap me with a lightning bolt?

What does happen of course is that each clever little act of rebellion is rewarded with an intensifying of the inky ignorance in which such people live. They become just a little coarser. They become just a little harder of heart. Rumi wrote that they add layers of rust and they dim the luster of their jewel.

William Law wrote about the soul that shuts itself from the Light and compared it to fruit that is denied sunlight. It never grows to maturity but remains shrunken and bitter. And he wrote that the soul carries this nature with it after it exits mortal existence.

The soul that shuts itself off from God in life is shut off from God in death and is pent up with all the envy, lust, anger and resentment that it held to in life. But in mortal life, Law wrote, there are many ways to distract oneself from the inner torment and pain. We can "cheat" our way through life by smothering the fear and anxiety with momentary distractions, excitements and entertainments. But once we leave the body behind we leave the cheats behind as well and we now must live in our homemade world of anger, lies, envy and resentment without any way to deflect them or ignore their reality.

To expose oneself to the Light is an act of considerable courage because the Light illuminates all things including those that we would just as soon forget or deny. But it also gives us the opportunity to look these things over in the clarity of Truth and deal with them according to that Truth. As Brother Robert has noted we must empty ourselves to receive the Light and thus receive Truth. This is a painful process at first. It is a rewarding and eventually a joyful process once past the early shocks.

4/14/2009 09:42:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

"This has a kind of perverse beauty, does it not? For it means that the highest "truth" is actually doubt, which means that the cretin who can doubt the most truth is the highest intellect."

Not for nothing is Descartes called the first philosopher of modernity, his method of doubt set the tone for, and ensured all that followed. Though I still put him on the err'd, rather than lied, side of the divide, that error legitimized by him and given into the hands of a creature like Rousseau... well, what he did to Western ideas of freedom, liberty and education, resulted in "... the state of tenure, and on this we agree: "it seems as if thought itself is left-wing, so it's really not that much a surprise."", and can almost completely be laid to his account.

The seemingly subtle difference between 'doubting' and 'questioning', is deeply profound and makes all the difference. Once you buy into the notion that 'First you must doubt all you know' before accepting anything as true, take that first step, and you are already far along the path into the Mirkwood Forest, where the spiders and webs are thick and huge and murder to get out of again.

4/14/2009 09:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Note for Mtraven . . .

If you wish pls. check out my blogspot at:
spiritspeaks-theofila.blogspot.com
and see what its like to see the many through the eyes of the One.

Am I like the biggest looser in the world? You betchya, because I have nothing to gain from all this goobble-dee-talk.

If truth be told, by now I would be a basket case if I had to defend God's existence. The reason I'm not frustrated with those who worship 'demonic' truths is because I know it's impossible to convince brother False and its sister Pride of their oh-so-wotever.

Theofilia

4/14/2009 10:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oops!

The above quote ".."and see what it's like to see the many through the eyes of the One." -- should read:

"and see what it's like to see/hear/feel the many through the eyes of the One."

Theofilia

4/14/2009 11:13:00 AM  
Anonymous will said...

>> . . the person divests himself "of any intent to give himself shape, who makes himself available as matter for the divine action."<<

That's prayer right there - a kind of fearless, expectant vulnerability. A vulnerability that is also the greatest strength we can possess.

Meanwhile, pace mtraven and his ilk, I think we can watch for the opposition to be ratcheting up the attack. It will be interesting to see who next Obama tries to appoint ambassador to the Vatican.

4/14/2009 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Can you imagine if President Bush had actually tarred his political opponents -- i.e., half the country -- as dangerous extremists, instead of only doing so in the left's fantasies?

4/14/2009 01:41:00 PM  
Blogger Sal said...

The question is: do I have time to whip up a 'Dangerous Right-Wing Extremist' t-shirt in lavender and old lace before tomorrow's Tea Party?
Darn these late-breaking news stories...

Reading James Schall's The Order of Things" . Very in sync with the idea of not honoring the untrue with knowlege.

Better late than not at all- Congratulations and welcome, Leslie! So happy for you.

4/14/2009 02:21:00 PM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

I forget - was it Sorcerer who came out as Ray-mor-linkydinks?


Geez trolls get jumbled after awhile.

4/14/2009 02:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Matthew 21 : 42 -44

4/14/2009 02:32:00 PM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

Sal, contact the Ranger Up guys for under 24hr turnover.
(tw: Blackfive)

4/14/2009 02:50:00 PM  
Blogger mtraven said...

Here's a good response to the right-wing hysteria over the DHS report, by a fellow Satanist.

I'm actually kind of busy with work so don't have time to trouble your souls much today, but I must point out that it was Satan who was responsible for humankind having any sense of good and evil whatsoever. I feel like I'm continuing to play that role here, trying to pry you folks away from your infantile Eden of imaginary spiritual purity.

4/14/2009 03:36:00 PM  
Blogger mushroom said...

Cory: William Law wrote about the soul that shuts itself from the Light and compared it to fruit that is denied sunlight. It never grows to maturity but remains shrunken and bitter. And he wrote that the soul carries this nature with it after it exits mortal existence.Extra credit for quoting William Law.

wv: has the sulesion -- Cut that out!

4/14/2009 03:38:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

(Psst... Ximeze - your link only goes to a photo. The store is here.)

4/14/2009 03:42:00 PM  
Blogger NoMo said...

If I may insert some bits of scripture that I believe may be relevant to today’s discussions (not like Mtraven will listen…but you never know).
I cor 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
I cor 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
II cor 4:3ff
…if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world (Satan) has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Eph 4:17ff
…you must no longer live as the unbelievers do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.
James 3:13ff
Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy.
In Acts 26:17ff
Paul recounts what the risen Christ told him on the road to Damascas, “…I am sending you to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.”

4/14/2009 03:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Cousin Dupree said...

Won't Obama declaring war on right wing extremists just create more of us?

4/14/2009 04:38:00 PM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

Julie,
Thanks for the Ranger Up link.

Photo was actually on purpose, cause it's clearer & easier to read than any reproducions of the T-shirt I could find.

4/14/2009 04:58:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

That is an awesome photo, though.

4/14/2009 05:14:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

After the protest tomorrow, don't forget to stop for free ice cream!

4/14/2009 06:39:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Julie, I put a couple similar links at the top of mine today Tea Party in Support P.E.T.A! (People for the Ethical Treatment of Americans).

4/14/2009 07:20:00 PM  
Blogger QP said...

Don't Tread On Me alert.

Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

In his press conference, Perry quotes Sam Houston: “Texas has yet to learn submission to any oppression, come from what source it may.”

As most know, Texas was its own country, from 1836 - 1846, before it joined the Union as its 28th state. Sam Houston was the first President of the Republic of Texas.

4/14/2009 07:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sigh. Your rhetoric, Bob, can be translated into only one thing:

"Exterminate the leftist scum."

You pay lip service to ignoring the leftists, but obviously you are incapable of doing so.

Is this your legacy to the world?

Repent of it, Bob. Just do it quietly, gradually, so know one even discerns your change of change of heart.

Bob, you have responsibilities. You have a ministsry and a flock, like it or not, and you are poisoning them with hate rhetoric.

Go deep; ask yourself if this is the correct path.

4/14/2009 07:57:00 PM  
Blogger mushroom said...

Yes, I've been hearing Gov. Perry everywhere today. God bless him.

The other thing that is getting lots of play is DHS report about all of us dangerous right-wing extremists who support the Constitution.

Hey, Anon, I don't want to exterminate the leftist scum. I just want them to leave me alone. I don't need the state to take care of me, to protect me from myself, to tell me what to do, or tell me what to think. The left is welcome to their pathetic little god, but if they plan on setting up one of their idols on my place, I'd suggest they pack a lunch.

4/14/2009 08:15:00 PM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Anon 7:57PM - Sigh.

"Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity." Eph 4:25ff

I believe Bob practices this...you, on the other hand, seem to have no clue. Go deep - ask yourself if you're a condescending pip.

4/14/2009 08:28:00 PM  
Blogger swiftone said...

What a shame. I followed the link, and felt as if I'd fallen into a porn site. Just skimming the quotes made me want to take a shower. Please, can we not go there again?

4/14/2009 08:32:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Cuz said "Won't Obama declaring war on right wing extremists just create more of us?"

Heh... tune in to the after Tea Party news tomorrow and see.

;-)

4/14/2009 08:34:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Nomo - well said.

4/14/2009 08:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Cousin Dupree said...

Hey, it's a step in the right direction -- at least Obama is calling us "terrorists" instead of domestic human-mediated disaster facilitators.

4/14/2009 08:47:00 PM  
Anonymous hoarhey said...

Interesting who they're calling the terrorists.
I'm guessing in the new "through the looking glass" world, Saul Alinsky, Frank Marshall Davis, Jeremiah Wright, and Bill Ayers are the new patriots.
I guess it's time to start agitating against the new patriots.

4/14/2009 11:14:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Good evening, my fellow Raccon Extremists!

You guys might wanna keep an eye on me. Because Homeland Security is purty clear about how dangerous veterans are, and I might join some radical group and terrorize...or somethin'. I dunno, they weren't very specific.

O wait! It's too late! I already joined a radical group: the Raccoon Overground.

I do hope that I can escape the
Al-Seething Eye of the President Obama Snitches (POS).

If those POS's turn me in there's no tellin' what I might do.
Bein' a psychopathic crazy extremist radical veteran and all.
I could snap like bloody ginger at any time!

But they drew first blood.
And blood don't lie.
Charlie is in bed with haji; the moderate Taliban, Al Qaida and Pirates in an unholy alieance with Progressive Commies.

Coonbyeya. Coonbyeya. Chicken pot pie. POS's are headin' for an Upper Tongan shoaldown...and I'm ready to flush.

4/15/2009 01:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Skully said...

Mtraven-

Yippiekiyay muddaflocker!

4/15/2009 01:12:00 AM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

In just 60 days, dissent has gone from the highest form of patriotism to the lowest form of terrorism.

4/15/2009 05:39:00 AM  
Blogger jp said...

The issue at the moment is not tea parties and taxes as it is excess debt and mass fraud concentrated in the financial sector.

Things will continue to operate as before until public debt origination runs runs into a wall. Private debt is still being generated at a rapid clip, which is why things are going as well as they are in the economy.

With respect to dissent, the issue is one of time. I believe that Obama has about 12 months where he will continued to be viewed favorably, regardless of what happens. In my opinion, this is simply a psychological feature of the current political constellation. The youngsters are simply willing to give him time and the boomers still operate under the delusion that the 1990s will come roaring back just like before and their 401(k)s will bounce back.

wv: fures

The government is beginning to become concered about managing public fures.

4/15/2009 07:02:00 AM  
Blogger jp said...

Ximeze,

Yes, sorceror was Ray.

Ray seemed to be more interested in talking about math.

Mtraven seems to be more interested in talking about politics.

My guess is that Mtraven will become bored here faster than Ray did.

Why did Ray leave? Did he just disappear one day and never come back? The last thing I remember about Ray was associating one of his comments with Vegas and he became annoyed because it was really Van's quote.

I have been distracted by the stock market crash and haven't really been paying attention to the comments here for several months.

4/15/2009 07:13:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

JP said "The issue at the moment is not tea parties and taxes as it is excess debt and mass fraud concentrated in the financial sector.

Things will continue to operate as before until public debt origination runs runs into a wall. Private debt is still being generated at a rapid clip, which is why things are going as well as they are in the economy."

Not to quibble beyond your intent, but the actual issue, is the govt operating outside the boundaries of the constitution, and of the courts allowing it through a now habitual flexible-spin of interpretation.

Outside the boundaries of 'norms' of dishonest individuals, the mass fraud is a result of the regulations imposed upon business's of all sorts. When law ceases to punish for cases of fraud, theft and criminal actions, and begins to define the decisions and behaviors that are and are not allowed - that opens the door for legalistic logic chopping "well... the regulations don't say I can't do this...". And then business's and interest groups, created as a result of the regulations being perceived as a being a threat to them, begin to lobby for the govt to allow or disallow this or that, and lickety split, we arrive at where we are.

Same with the debt issue itself, both public and private, it can be traced back to imposed innovations (the Fed, and moving away from gold standard which is what makes federal funny-money possible, etc) as well as artificial rules and safety cushions, which make going in over your head the 'logical thing to do' at least in the short term, and prudent behavior the habit of 'suckers' (example: a realtor we had when looking to buy a house, balked at the mo pmt we wanted to keep within "Oh, Seriously! Govt lending guidelines allow you a waaay larger debt to income ratio!" She was visibly ticked off because we wouldn't look at anything outside of what we thought we could afford).

"Why did Ray leave? Did he just disappear one day and never come back?"

Got to give him credit there, true to his word, he departed when the proprietor let him know his comments were no longer serving a purpose.

4/15/2009 07:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I must say, it is odd to critique, now, suddenly, the Bush created DHS, when, as anyone could have predicted, once an openly leftist president took office (rather than the closeted one in Bush/Cheney), they would use the DHS to lock in on "right-wing" folks. The police in Missouri recently issued a similar report to watch out for anyone with a Ron Paul bumper sticker.
Once you bring so much power into the executive branch, all of which is, by definition, unconstitutional, all kinds of mayhem will without doubt emerge. Unfortunately, you folks here all supported draconian measures from your beloved left-wing Bush, heaven only knows why, and, you still do it. Bush started this nonsense, including the financial bailouts. Deal with it: there is no difference in the political parties as they are all run by leftists with globalist agendas. Remember Poppy's New World Order prophecies? They are being fulfilled, every jot and tittle.

4/15/2009 01:18:00 PM  
Anonymous line judge said...

Yee Haw!

Just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in...

You fellers are doing a pretty effective imitation of right wing extremists.

Here's a theme you may choose to remember:

What goes around comes around. I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. There's nothing new under the sun. Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins.

Gee, koonz. Am I wrong to have expected more or less? Anywhere but here?

Short: second serve.

4/15/2009 09:02:00 PM  
Anonymous dick cheney knows what rush doesn't said...

Sez Bob:

"In just 60 days, dissent has gone from the highest form of patriotism to the lowest form of terrorism."

That's the stupidest statement I've ever read you make.

4/15/2009 09:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Skully said...

Truth is always stupid to trolls.
In fact, that's one way to confirm that we do gno truth.

When a troll says "that's the stupidest thing..."
you know yer on the right course.

4/15/2009 09:44:00 PM  
Anonymous better late said...

Skully, apparently you aren't reading your daily ass signments. (See Bob, 4/16 edition, if you need it spelled out). However, it does make one feel better to belittle others given the right conditions eh Skully?

Have another round. On you. Again.

4/17/2009 03:46:00 AM  

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