Friday, November 21, 2008

Erectile Dysfunction, or What the Thunder Said (12.06.11)

Of thunder of spring over distant mountains
He who was living is now dead
We who were living are now dying
--T.S. Eliot, What the Thunder Said

I think we're through with the Devil. On to the Tower of Destruction. This is an extremely important card, so huddle up close to the screen and turn up the volume. It has to do with human evil, or "to evil which does not come from the outside, but which certainly has its origin within the human soul" -- not from the body, which is an innocent bystander in man's vertical fall. Depending upon how you look at it, the fall has to do either with willfulness or ignorance, which leads to "illicit" or illegitimate knowledge, and separates us from the Creator. Either way -- i.e., by way of intellect or will -- human beings are exiled from the vertical and plunged into the horizontal.

Now, as UF explains, Genesis is set in a garden, which is a very different thing from a jungle -- which is completely wild -- or a desert -- which is more or less barren -- or a town -- which is a symbol of human invention, and where nothing grows spontaneously. (There is a pneumacosmic reason why the big cities are the main habitats of the Blue Meanies).

But a garden is what? It is a combination of vertical and horizontal energies, of planning and spontaneity. A beautiful garden, as the Frothy One can attest to, involves a harmonious combination of Spirit and Nature; of Spirit within nature, or Nature rising to Spirit. One thinks of Japanese gardens, which so transparently convey the supernatural within nature.

UF links this to the true mission and vocation of the Raccoon, which is "to cultivate and maintain the 'garden,' i.e. the world in a state of equilibrium and cooperation between Spirit and Nature" Coons are gardeners, not technicians (even if we do technical work). Unlike these modern excuses for gardeners, we do not merely "mow and blow." Rather, we cultivate and we maintain.

The Tower of Destruction symbolizes everything the garden is not. As UF explains, it comes about as a result of "the collective will of 'lower selves' to achieve the replacing of the 'true Self' of the celestial hierarchies and God with a superstructure of universal significance fabricated through the will." You could say that it's built prick by prick.

But the human will, alienated from spirit, cannot create anything of truly universal, or cosmic, significance. It can only create a tower, which is surely fated for the divine wrecking ball -- which is a mercy, never a punishment. For example, our scientistic jester is always kind or clueless enough to share his silly little towers with us, which we never fail to destroy at a glance. And yet, he still no doubt prefers to live amidst their haunted ruins.

For the Tower of Destruction teaches a law that is both general and universal, meaning that it "operates both on a small scale and on a grand scale, in individual biography as well as in that of mankind, and in the past, present and future equally." It is another one of those things in the Bible that didn't just happen once upon a time, but which happen every time. I read yesterday that the Pope had a prophecy of the present economic collapse over two decades ago, and who could say that he was wrong? That is what Towers do, i.e., collapse, whereas "the only solid reality is the word of God.'' Suffice it to say that the Big Three will not outlive the Trinity.

The fall of a once wallstrait oldparr is retaled early in bed and later on life down through all christian minstrelsy. --Finnegans Wake

Here is what eventually happens to imaginary Towers and to the people who live in them: the thunderbolt: "he who builds a 'tower' to replace revelation from heaven by what he himself has fabricated, will be blasted by a thunderbolt, i.e., he will undergo the humiliation of being reduced to his own subjectivity and to terrestrial reality" -- i.e., back to the ground (which, of course, has two very different meanings; there is nothing wrong with humbly living on the ground, for that is where one will find the ground of being).

This is the thing I don't understand about scientism. Surely the scientific materialist knows up front that his knowledge is provisional and relative, and that it will eventually be brought low by the thunderbolt, even if it is only the thunderbolt of a new scientific development. And yet, they fall in love with their cognitive McTowers and cling to them as if they are holy writ.

This was the real dispute between Galileo and the Church, between relative vs. absolute truth (however awkwardly handled by the Church, which has been absurdly overblown anyway by radical secularists; it is indeed one of their "founding myths"). Does the earth really revolve around the sun? No, not at all. Only from a relative position. From the standpoint of later scientific developments (i.e., relativity), Galileo has been transcended, and the Church is still here.

Besides, the geocentric theory remains intrinsically true, if looked at vertically. That is, the human being is indeed the "center of the cosmos," in that only he recapitulates and embodies all the vertical degrees of creation within himself. The light of Truth is infinitely more central than sunlight. What could be more obvious?

If your little tower is not mercifully blasted by the thunderbolt in this life, then it will be severely blasted upon your demise. Evidently, that is when you will have the opportunity to bear witness to the full extent of your folly. You won't even have to be judged by God. Rather, you will judge yourself, like a child who transitions from, say, Piaget's stage of concrete operations to formal operations, and can objectively look back on his previous mode of cognition because he has transcended it. When you transcend, its as if you move out of the old drafty tower and into a real mansion.

I remember interviewing an unsophisticated Spanish-speaking patient a number of years ago. He was chronicling his various complaints, but didn't have the word for "impotence." He struggled to convey his meaning, and eventually confided that my manhood has fallen.

Phall if you but will, rise you must: and none so soon either shall the pharce for the nunce come to a setdown secular phoenish. --Finnegans Wake

But with the erection of manmade towers, the thunderbolt is a mercy, depending upon what one does with it. Think of it as an extreme form of (?!), for example, in the experience of Paul on the road to Damascus. You might say that Saul the tower crumbled to the ground and became Paul the tree.

Much more to go. To be continued.

I sat upon the shore
Fishing, with the arid plain behind me
Shall I at least set my lands in order?
London Bridge is falling down falling down falling down
--Eliot

85 Comments:

Blogger Warren said...

"The fall of a once wallstrait oldparr...."

An appropriate excerpt to quote, being (among other things) Joyce's allusion to the Wall Street crash of 1929.

11/21/2008 08:42:00 AM  
Blogger Ray Ingles said...

This is the thing I don't understand about scientism. The scientist knows up front that his knowledge is provisional and relative, and that it will eventually be brought low by the thunderbolt, even if it is only the thunderbolt of a new scientific development. And yet, they fall in love with their cognitive McTowers and cling to them as if they are holy writ.

When you see something that you don't understand, it's usually a sign that you're missing something, or that your preconceptions are getting in the way.

11/21/2008 08:51:00 AM  
Blogger gumshoe said...

"the Wall Street crash of 1929."

but WHERE did all the money GO?

the question applies as much now as then.

11/21/2008 08:53:00 AM  
Blogger gumshoe said...

"When you see something that you don't understand, it's usually a sign that you're missing something, or that your preconceptions are getting in the way."

ray -

i don't mean to pile on.

but your continued presence on the blog indicates there are a good number of things you don't understand.

tend your own garden.

11/21/2008 08:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Yankee Doodle Donkey said...

"When you see something that you don't understand, it's usually a sign that you're missing something, or that your preconceptions are getting in the way."

You don't say?

Gumshoe, I think it's not so much his continued presence as his continued lack of interest in even beginning to comprehend. I wish he would tend his own garden - then he might at least learn something about growth.

11/21/2008 09:07:00 AM  
Blogger jp said...

Gumshoe says:

"the Wall Street crash of 1929."

but WHERE did all the money GO?

the question applies as much now as then.

The answer is easy, really.

The money never existed in the first place.

Credit Bubbles are Tower of Destructions built on the ground of actual money (or the ground of the actual economy), so to speak.

It was a Credit Bubble Tower of Destruction. Are Credit Bubbles a kind of "mind parasite" for the economy? Can't have a credit market without credit bubbles, it would seem. They keep coming back.

And now it's Destructing and we are learning how much things are really worth.

Now I can short sell the market and profit from the market collapse.

A good question is how can spiritual profits be obtained from the collapse of more spirital Towers of Destruction?

Other than learning not to build them in the first place, that is.

11/21/2008 09:37:00 AM  
Blogger walt said...

(Definitely) not to compare apples to oranges, but it might interest you to know that Madhava Ashish, whose writings you once recommended, also wrote in the early 80s:

"...though I do not want to join the prophets of doom, I just do not see how current trends can lead to anything but breakdown. Will people be able to reason it out and adjust things without descending into chaos? We can't really say. But one has to be prepared."

And of course there were many others. What they all have in common is that, generally speaking, they were ignored.

11/21/2008 09:43:00 AM  
Blogger jp said...

There are a few major economic towers (bubbles) left standing for the momenet.

The healthcare/Medicare/Medicad/Social Security complex. This should resolve itself (crash) when the U.S. defaults on its debt.

And the Post-Secondary Education complex. Not sure what is going to solve this one.

11/21/2008 09:49:00 AM  
Anonymous copper thorn said...

This blog is an example of the spiritual dangers of neo-Platonism and a good illustration of why that theological approach was rejected in Christianity and Vedanta. Privileging abstraction over concrete reality is a recurring minor theme in traditions of religious mysticism. In many particulars it is congruent with genuine mysticism. But the danger is that the practitioners get lost in the warren of their own mind and end up doing violence to human beings. This is particularly dangerous when the adherents are not grounded in the Church.

Beware. The approach at One Cosmos is not Christian. It is not Vedantic. For those who thirst, it would be better to look towards the traditions of mysticism rooted in the Church or contact with a living teacher.

11/21/2008 09:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Petey said...

So I'm dead. Nobody's perfect.

11/21/2008 09:59:00 AM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Ray - If you are an honest seeker of truth, a critical part of that quest must include asking, "God, if you are there, please make it known to me in a way that I can grasp - and in so grasping, begin to believe." Emphasis on the word "honest".

Then, prepare yourself for thunder and perhaps a whole lot of cleansing rain...and let the gardening begin!

11/21/2008 10:05:00 AM  
Blogger QP said...

I sat upon the shore
Fishing, with the arid plain behind me
Shall I at least set my lands in order?
London Bridge is falling down falling down falling down
--Eliot

Falling to the east?

11/21/2008 10:09:00 AM  
Blogger Joan of Argghh! said...

A Golden Thorn would be ever so much more apt, and transcendent.

But, copper? I guess the economic downturn is affecting everyone.

11/21/2008 10:11:00 AM  
Blogger Joan of Argghh! said...

I'm listening to a live performance by Van Morrison and Ray Charles singing, "Crazy Love."

Just damn if it doesn't go well with whatever it is Bob is selling!

:o)

11/21/2008 10:14:00 AM  
Blogger Ray Ingles said...

Nomo - In Leslie's terms, "no grace, so far.".

11/21/2008 10:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If we’re the gardeners, the government is the cropduster.
But lately he’s been Russell Casse.

11/21/2008 10:19:00 AM  
Blogger gumshoe said...

and "by what authority"
does 'copper thorn' speak?

11/21/2008 10:19:00 AM  
Blogger Warren said...

"the practitioners get lost in the warren of their own mind"

Y'know, I've had just that problem my whole life....

11/21/2008 10:24:00 AM  
Blogger Ray Ingles said...

Gumshoe, Yankee - If you think I was unaware of the humor inherent in the comments, or at least how they'd be interpreted here... your preconceptions are getting in the way.

Thanks for the demonstration. :->

11/21/2008 10:24:00 AM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Copper Thorn - So, you were googling "erectile disfunction" and ended up here? Sorry, dude.

But seriously, although you're a little prickly you make a fine point. Stick around a while and you may sharpen it up.

You know what they way about forests and trees and being too quick to judge. In other words, lighten up!

8^]

11/21/2008 10:24:00 AM  
Blogger Gandalin said...

It is perhaps of interest that the verse in Psalm 145 which applies to this card is "You open Your hand to satisfy the needs of all Your creatures." The thunderbolt is a manifestation of mercy.

11/21/2008 10:26:00 AM  
Blogger Warren said...

"This blog is an example of the spiritual dangers of neo-Platonism and a good illustration of why that theological approach was rejected in Christianity and Vedanta."

Yup. Medieval India was rife with these arguments. Gaudapada and Shankara were big on Plotinus, while Ramanuja countered him by appealing to Porphyry, and Madhva used Iamblichus and Proclus to try to refute them both. Eventually they all just said to hell with it and became Buddhists.

11/21/2008 10:32:00 AM  
Blogger Zoltan said...

Copper Thorn,

Remarkable moniker.

It is overstepping to assert that both Christianity and Vedantha rejected/reject Neo-Platonism.

An aspect of the grandeur of both of those approaches of God to man is the comprehension -- which is not to say the inclusion -- of all possible aspects of the conditions of existence, including evil.

None of God's soteriological regimes conflicts with, much less rejects or even destroys, the nature of nature, the nature of man or the nature of history.

God's soteriological regimes fulfill the purpose of each of those natures -- classically, essences and existences comprehensively.

Some Neo-Platonic theologians have received negative reviews during the history of the churches -- e.g., Origen -- and some specifics of their constructions of the phenomenology of Christian piety have been rejected by theological consensus or by council.

However, no theologian and no council has even rejected Neo-Platonism per se or a theologian such as Plotinus or Origen per se because Neo-Platonism bangs about in the orbit of Logos Theology and Logos Theology is the root of Christian and Vedanthic theology, piety and historiography.

This is not to say Neo-Platonism is above criticism or accurate throughout.

It is to say that no theologian or council has ever rejected Neo-Platonism in the same way that no sane person cuts off their own ear.

To do so would be to reject Christianity and Vedantha and every other religion worthy of the name.

Plotinus and one of the Christian theologians -- my memory does not bring forth the name with certainty, but he was Egyptian -- both studied with the same teacher in Alexandria -- I think it was Ammonius Saccus, but again my memory is unreliable and I do not have time to be brief (i.e., look it up).

Zoltan

11/21/2008 10:33:00 AM  
Anonymous son of a preacher man said...

Saul of Tarsus never doubted the existence of God.

11/21/2008 10:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Cousin Dupree said...

Could it be Copithorne, back for another thunderbolt?

11/21/2008 10:48:00 AM  
Blogger Niggardly Phil said...

lol Dupree, amazing -
"The philosophy you present here falls in the tradition of neo-Platonism. Thoughts are real, substantial, vivid. They are in contact with a realm of ultimate forms. Life as it is actually lived is, in your word, "trivial" -- a pallid reflection. In the Christian faith, this was rejected as a Gnostic heresy. Neo-Platonism was bypassed in the Vedic tradition as well."
Copper Thorn

vs

Copithorne
"This blog is an example of the spiritual dangers of neo-Platonism and a good illustration of why that theological approach was rejected in Christianity and Vedanta."




Has history taught us nothing?

11/21/2008 11:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from yesterday: In fact, it's a little perverse to even call it homophobia.

why should we allow the left to seize the moral high ground, especially since they are flat-landers

I prefer the term heterophilic.

11/21/2008 11:26:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

Dupree - thanks for the link; nice re-past for lunchtime consumption.

11/21/2008 11:31:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

"Beware. The approach at One Cosmos is not Christian."

Reminds me of something funny I saw this morning...

11/21/2008 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger Warren said...

"Plotinus and one of the Christian theologians -- my memory does not bring forth the name with certainty, but he was Egyptian -- both studied with the same teacher in Alexandria"

Zoltan,

You mentioned him earlier in your post. Origen.

11/21/2008 11:34:00 AM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Right, left, right, left. Yep, just as I thought...it's biblical.

11/21/2008 11:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

right on jp. Antel Fekete, a monetary scientist, speaks of the present destruction of the twin towers of derivatives and debt collapsing before our eyes. I can't help but wonder if the Twin towers were not a heralding of this financial deleveraging and collapse.

11/21/2008 12:08:00 PM  
Blogger Aloysius said...

Well the link to the Pope story had a comment that suggested that the free market had gotten out of control. If this is the Pope's position he is wrong. The problem is the arrogant meddling of governments in the market and our unwillingness to let the market punish failure.

I have great admiration for the pope and the Catholic Church but they have always had a very pronounced ambivalence about real freedom. They love it as a construct but they are loathe to see it at work.

11/21/2008 12:18:00 PM  
Anonymous will said...

>>The light of Truth is infinitely more central than sunlight<<

In fact, I think one could say that sunlight, as all sunshiny-smiley-fun as it's wont to be, is a corrupted version of the Light., ie., a material version of the true Light.

Maybe this why the sun was seen to darken when the Light began to flood the earth planes following Christ's death on the cross. Just a matter of the material light paling in the face of its superior.

If our age is the age of the falling of literal and proverbial towers, then a night is coming. Just as in our post-mortem state, the only light we'll have to see by is the Light we've nurtured - gardened - in our own souls. Of course, this night is also the dawn of a new day.

11/21/2008 12:27:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

Looking Out

Humble soul contained
one in being with the Garden
opens to the Son

11/21/2008 12:33:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

Heh - Will, I hadn't read your comment when I posted that.

11/21/2008 12:36:00 PM  
Blogger Warren said...

"I have great admiration for the pope and the Catholic Church but they have always had a very pronounced ambivalence about real freedom."

Oh, it's probably just that "original sin" nonsense of theirs again....

11/21/2008 12:39:00 PM  
Blogger Niggardly Phil said...

Or that they won't recognize the primacy of market forces over individuals, the absolute right of private property, continued superstitions about the universal destination of goods, and so on.

It's like they were concerned about man, instead of the invisible pimp hand.

11/21/2008 12:54:00 PM  
Anonymous will said...

>>There is a pneumacosmic reason why the big cities are the main habitats of the Blue Meanies<<

I think there was pneumacosmic reason big cities came into being in the first place: People had to be separated, made distinct from nature, lifted out of herd instinct and individualized. (back in medieval days of yore, it was the city that was the safe haven, the country/rural area being the perilous zone - the opposite from now)

I think that age is going going gone - the big cities have served their spiritual/evolutionary purpose and it's time to return to the ground and grounding. But the return will not/should not be a regression into tribalism and herd instinct, rather a return to nature via "individualized community". With a dollop of wisdom, it is hoped.

11/21/2008 01:00:00 PM  
Anonymous will said...

>>Heh - Will, I hadn't read your comment when I posted that<<

Julie, I like to think there are "complimentaries" just as there are synchronicities.

Or maybe the former is a sub-set of the latter.

Anyway, you did your mystical sleight-of-hand thing and it worked!

11/21/2008 01:08:00 PM  
Blogger Aloysius said...

Yeah, The solution is always some smart person to step in and protect people from themselves. The Pope's ambivalence towards free markets fuels the likes of Obama, liberation theologists, Marxists, Fascists and every other tinpot. Their meddling to protect us ignorants becomes the problem.

I am a conservative, not a libertarian so I do respect politics but the Church has spawned more than its share of philosophers inclined to Marxism. The world would be better off if "social justice" were abandoned in favor of teaching the Ten Commandments. I guess they would if they thought humans had a chance of living them.

11/21/2008 01:10:00 PM  
Blogger Robin Starfish said...

It can only create a tower, which is surely fated for the divine wrecking ball -- which is a mercy, never a punishment.

Hollywood has done a fine job of evangelizing worship of the wrecking ball and the distorted mercy of purely human salvation. How many post-911 movies and tv shows (e.g. Heroes, The Day After Tomorrow) focus on the destruction of NYC by the 'hand of God' or some mega-natural disaster unleashed by evil neocons, to be saved by flying senators, immortal cheerleaders, or leggy scientists in torn lingerie?

And at the same time, they are appalled at anyone actually speaking about 9-11 anymore. It's taboo.

I can't help but believe they are compelled to create such entertainment because of the embedded truth in each soul. They can't stand that it's there and so literally project their hatred of it onscreen. Then charge $12 a ticket for us to see it.

I'm not suggesting that this necessarily makes bad entertainment. Occasionally it's creative and a welcome two hour escape. It's just that we never see a movie take the next step. Too brave, too controversial.

MOTT - the movie. Wouldn't that turn Cannes upside down?

11/21/2008 01:24:00 PM  
Blogger christopher said...

Central Position

I am the true center
But not like I thought I was.
Look how I spin here.
I am not true center,
Not like you think I should be
But like the top's not.

A disappearing world shows
Itself - pointed illusion.
That man over there
Is no more center than I
But yes, we all are.

11/21/2008 01:37:00 PM  
Anonymous will said...

>>MOTT - the movie. Wouldn't that turn Cannes upside down?<<

Or right-side up.

I personally would like to play the role of the Tower of Destruction. I will, however, settle for The Fool.

11/21/2008 01:38:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

MOTT - the Movie: Apparently, costuming and auditions are already in the works.

11/21/2008 02:17:00 PM  
Blogger The Poster Formerly Known as Gordon said...

"In the creation story, in the creeds of Christianity, and in countless stories in the biblical drama, a nonoperative, prescientific, and clearly false view of the world is perpetuated. Those who seek to preserve these biblical understandings have to become anti-intellectual or must close off vast portions of their thinking processes or twist their brains into a kind of first-century pretzel in order to maintain their faith system. It is no wonder that they are afraid of knowledge. Their faith security system is built on sand. It cannot and will not survive, and they have no sense that there is any alternative save despair, death, and meaninglessness. This is enough to cause fear to erupt in anger."

John Shelby Spong, "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism," Pg. 26-27.

11/21/2008 02:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Petey said...

John Shelby Spong is a notorious spiritual retard.

11/21/2008 03:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Cousin Dupree said...

Speaking of a "nonoperative, prescientific, and clearly false view of the world," Spong actually admires Deepak Chopra.

11/21/2008 03:35:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Nodrog must be bored. I realize he's ignorant in every sense of the word, of what Christianity or Religion is, but I didn't know he was so ignorant as to miss the multitude of intellectuals throughout the ages that believe in absolute Truth.

11/21/2008 03:41:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"It is no wonder that they are afraid of knowledge."

Perhaps you can demonstrate your vast knowledge of the mystics and their lack of knowledge.
You know, demon-strate your superior intellect, Gordon.

11/21/2008 03:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Skully said...

You could say that it's built prick by prick.

Speakin' of which...

11/21/2008 03:52:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

But the human will, alienated from spirit, cannot create anything of truly universal, or cosmic, significance.

Precisely. Nor can they create anything eternal.

11/21/2008 03:55:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

From the standpoint of later scientific developments (i.e., relativity), Galileo has been transcended, and the Church is still here.

A truth that a-theists obviously cannot accept even though it's empirically provable. Or maybe they just don't bother to read your posts before they bark.

11/21/2008 04:06:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

If your little tower is not mercifully blasted by the thunderbolt in this life, then it will be severely blasted upon your demise.

Mine's more like a shack, actually. I never seem to find the time to add extra stories with all the thunderbolts that strike me.

I gno, I gno! It's God's mercy, and I'm thankful for that, really, I am.
But I can't help but cringe sometimes when I hear the thunder.

11/21/2008 04:10:00 PM  
OpenID mimecontrol said...

Could someone tell me what UF means?

11/21/2008 04:32:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

UF is "Unknown Friend," the anonymous author of the spiritual classic we've been discussing for the past several weeks, Meditations on the Tarot.

11/21/2008 04:44:00 PM  
OpenID mimecontrol said...

Thank you Bob. I've been reading for a bit. I'm a long time lurker.

Your POV is very interesting.

11/21/2008 04:57:00 PM  
Anonymous jwm said...

Holy cow, Gordon, are you reduced to trolling every last remnant of the former LGF family funhouse? Did BabbaZee kick you out? Is there no meeting of contrarians anonymous on line anywhere? On the other hand- Maybe you can tag-team with Ray against Van and someone in a steel cage flame war, or something
;)

JWM

11/21/2008 05:29:00 PM  
Anonymous jwm said...

Bob:
I'm glad it took you until now to write the posts that you wrote this week. And I'm even gladder that I've been here from the start, because I feel like everything I've read here- everything I've learned so far, every change I've undergone, has been to prepare me for these last five posts (and comments). This stuff shot though me like an X-ray. Some real thunderbolts. Simultaneously uplifting and sobering- no small feat. I'm reeling.
(and I mean that in a good way)
Thank you

JWM

11/21/2008 05:42:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Ray said "When you see something that you don't understand, it's usually a sign that you're missing something, or that your preconceptions are getting in the way."

Heh.

eh...ahr....heh ha...aheh....


hoo...wam....mmbr....bwah!

BwaahahahaBwaahahahaBwaahahahaBwaahahaha!!! BwaahahahaBwaahahahaBwaahahahaBwaahahaha!!!



ooh... ar-heh... leeglemmph


ahmmmmmmmmmmm

heh.

11/21/2008 05:46:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Hi JWM-
I cooncur! This is awe inspiring n' amazing, eh?
Wow! Guffaw! Ho! :^)

11/21/2008 05:47:00 PM  
Anonymous jwm said...

I gno, I gno! It's God's mercy, and I'm thankful for that, really, I am.
But I can't help but cringe sometimes when I hear the thunder.



Ben- As one who has lost a tower or two of my own...
Glad you've made it up to cringe. I'm still at the 'hide under the bed' stage. They say: Be careful what you pray for. I always add: Never pray for humility. (unless you're really, really brave)

JWM

11/21/2008 05:49:00 PM  
Blogger mushroom said...

I don't want to cross you, Will, but I think I was born to play the part of the Tower of Destruction.

I bear a striking resemblance if you shoot my good side.

11/21/2008 05:51:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Ray said "When you see something that you don't understand, it's usually a sign that you're missing something, or that your preconceptions are getting in the way."

Ray said- "When I see something I don't understand, it's usually a sign that I'm missing something, or that my preconceptions are getting in the way."

There, Ray, I fixed it for ya. :^)

11/21/2008 05:52:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Gumshoe said "but WHERE did all the money GO?"

Not where did the money go (where didn't it go?), but where was the value which the gov't paper printers and ponzi pushers assured those accepting their iou's, was easily accessible.

But when 500 people show up for a 100 seat theater to hear the fat lady sing... well... mgmt's got some 'splaining to do....

11/21/2008 05:57:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Mushroom-
We could always hold auditions. :^)
I nominate Petey to direct. It will be a cosmic action/thrilla/noir/comedy/dreama
of epic Oportions!

11/21/2008 05:58:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"But when 500 people show up for a 100 seat theater to hear the fat lady sing... well... mgmt's got some 'splaining to do...."

LOL! That explains it in a nutshell, Van!
Unfortunately, mgmt ain't 'splainin' nothin', since many key politiciancrats are holdin' the strings.

11/21/2008 06:01:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Ah... I see JP's preceeded me. Ok, reading on to the bottom....

11/21/2008 06:01:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Petey for director!
Hell, we already got the screamplay.
I volunteer for all the stuntwork.

11/21/2008 06:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Dr. Killdeer said...

I have been searching for a donor to give Ray that much needed humor transplant. So far I've entered two obstacles. The first is that a very small sense of humor is needed since, frankly, Ray's soul is pretty cramped. The second problem is that I have yet to find a donor who is dead enough.

This copra-thorn looks like he has potential.

11/21/2008 06:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Yankee Doodle Donkey said...

Yes, Ray is definitely lacking in the Guffaw-ha department. Which 'splains why, when he tells a joke, nobody notices.

(Psst... Ray... you shouldn't believe 'em when they tell you it was so funny they forgot to laugh.)

11/21/2008 08:35:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

mushroom said "I don't want to cross you, Will, but I think I was born to play the part of the Tower of Destruction. "

Noooo...Iii am TowerofDestrucTion!

(You've got to picture my saying that while doing my best Kirk Douglass... Tony Curtis... and a cast of thousands in gladiator outfits impression)

11/21/2008 09:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Copper thorn has a point: Bob's approach is mainly intellectual and theoretical, and therefore unbalanced.

The posters here don't really expose pain; they will talk about it guardedly.

Sadness, guilt, shame, anger, loneliness; where are these in relation to our walk with God?

This post's sexual imagery is a case in point--"towers of babel" are mentioned, but the horrors of an actual limp penis get no play.

What are the spiritual repercussions of having ED? How does it make make a man feel? How does it affect the marriage? Is there a spiritual solution to ED?

What about female frigidity in relation to her walk with God? How can she come to terms with her lack of interest?

Etc. The post could use a little red blood to illustrate what the theoretical hints about.

11/21/2008 10:49:00 PM  
Anonymous jwm said...

Anon:
Yes, most of us here are somewhat guarded when it comes to playing True Confessions on line. Trust me on this one- we've no lack of tales to tell. The 'been there/done that' list among the Raccoons is the stuff of urban legend, grand soap opera, and slapstick tragedy. You just have to buy a beeer or two, put on some old Carter Family records, and listen along for a while.

JWM

11/21/2008 11:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Mr. Robinson said...

Boys and girls, can you say, "boundaries"?

11/22/2008 06:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Cousin Dupree said...

Anonymous, it sounds like there's something you'd like to share with the group. Please don't.

11/22/2008 06:45:00 AM  
Anonymous spirit of fergus the cat said...

Live from One Cosmos . . . it's the Jerry Springer Show!

11/22/2008 06:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Limpy said...

Yes, I confess, I'm the same Anon. who lied and said I can't get enough.

11/22/2008 08:01:00 AM  
Blogger Zoltan said...

Son of a Preacher Man,

God does not exist. No theologian, to include St. Paul, has ever said that God exists or believes it either.

The problem is not with God but with the language. The statement is absurd on its face and existentially idolatrous therefore morally weak, and the Church does not abide weakness.

Nietzsche wrote eloquently on this matter, demonstrating with customary brilliance the "death of God," meaning the existential nonsense of the God who is said to "exist."

At best, only if taken pantheistically can the statement make sense, and the Church has rejected pantheism, by agreement although not by council, as a formal system (e.g., Spinoza) but not as a worthless or evil one (Schleiermacher called Spinoza "St. Spinoza" and was no pantheist).

I am not going to recapitulate the reason the statement is absurd as it stands more than to give its correction:

God is the ground of existence, its abyssal and its ecstatic origin. To say "God exists" is to make God a being among beings. God is the ground of being, Being Itself (esse ipsum).

Who says "God exists." (or even more sillily, "I believe that God exists.") conjures an idol, the Devil, the Tower of which Bob is discoursing.

Zoltan

11/23/2008 08:48:00 AM  
Blogger Zoltan said...

Warren,

Thanks, yes, Origen. I will remember that you knew that and considered it important to mention. :-) It is important! Thanks.

Zoltan

11/23/2008 08:50:00 AM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Meister Eckhart has many fine paradoxables about the non-existence of God. Put it this way: if God exists, only he doesn't know it. Or, if he doesn't exist, only he really knows it.

11/23/2008 09:51:00 AM  
Blogger Zoltan said...

Bob,

Yup, that's it, thanks.

Zoltan

11/23/2008 08:21:00 PM  
Anonymous son of a preacherman said...

"Always remember that it is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood"

11/24/2008 07:33:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

Thorn: Of course it's not 'christian' - you must be grounded in a tradition to appreciate anything esoteric. One cosmos reading by itself - with no praxis, no prayer, no scripture - would of course be unchristian. But who said we ever did that? It would be like reading Dionysius the Areopagite without ever praying, fasting, giving alms or anything. Just because that would be wrong doesn't condemn Dionysius. Our information age has fooled us into thinking information is flat, i.e. all information is equal. But Dionysius is not for the initiate, mostly because it's difficult to understand. Would we expect a 10 year old with no grounding in algebra to be able to read and figure out multi-variable calculus?

The copper thorn is in thy own palm, sir. The thorn of not praying or going to Church - Vedanta or Catholic - whilst reading esoteric literature to try to figure out why neo-platonism is 'wrong'. Strictly speakin', all Christian (Bob included) philosophy revolves around first destroying or killing the mind - which is why egoic intellects rightly fear it - so that it may be reborn noetically. The form of this is that it kills all of your abilities to make excuses to do evil FIRST before it lets you understand anything at all.

Consider, please.

11/24/2008 08:10:00 AM  
Blogger Ray Ingles said...

Ben - Re: Galileo being 'transcended', you might want to read this.

11/24/2008 08:32:00 AM  

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