Monday, November 10, 2008

The Death Cult and its Strange Nasolabial Gods (11.22.11)

High seriousness about [Wodehouse] brings to mind poor Professor Scully. This professor's attempt, in 1902, to describe a smile scientifically was quoted by Richard Usborne in his fine book Wodehouse at Work. Scully doggedly dissected "the drawing back and slight lifting of the corners of the mouth, which partially uncover the teeth, the curving of the naso-labial furrows".... Such an approach is not actively harmful, but it suffers from naso-labianism -- leaving the mystery of Wodehouse's genius intact.--Code of the Woosters (preface)

We're still in the middle of that old card, Death. UF properly relates the grim ferryman to mechanism and materialism, which are "not at all the realm of answers, but rather the graveyard for real questions." In other words, to embrace scientistic reductionism as a metaphysic (as opposed to a method) is to live as zombie. You're not really alive. You're just undead.

For example, just ask a typical victim of reductionosis -- as Julie attempted to do -- what a smile is. A purely horizontal person could in good faith respond that it involves "the contraction of muscles in the region of the mouth and cheeks, and this latter through electrical impulses transmitted through the nerves from the centre called the 'brain.'" But this would be like trying to understand a telephone conversation by analyzing the electrical impulses that pass within the wires. The most complete analysis will necessarily be completely inadequate. Such an approach hardly explains the smile, but simply provides the occasion for a metasmile.

The same is obviously true of the mind/brain relationship. Smiling is a manifestation of joy, or humor, or bemusement, which "set in motion both the muscles of the mouth and the electrical impulses of the nerves." As I mentioned somewhere in the book, every reductionistic explanation harbors a cognitively pathological dualism that results in one side of the dualism spilling over into the other side.

In other words, like a psychotic patient, the materialist's explanation is always put forth by that which is denied in the explanation. Making a question go away is not the same as having answered it. As UF points out, the question remains, but it is simply shifted from the conscious to the unconscious mind.

If you ever want to know why so called "rational" people believe in such weird things -- global warming, Obama worship, the designated hitter -- this is why. They descend into a kind of chaotic and disorganized form of unconscious thinking, because you can no more make the unconscious go away than you can make the sympathetic nervous system go away. All you can do is discipline and channel it, the same way you create electricity from a wild river.

You don't make the Colorado River go away. You build a damn, which is to say, a boundary condition, which harnesses the "lower" in order to allow for an emergent "higher." If I were a reductionist, perhaps I might say that this post is being typed on a computer, which is plugged into a socket, which is powered by Hoover Dam, which is just a big wall with holes in it, which is why this post is ultimately all wet.

Now, one of my main beefs with psychoanalysis is that it does a fine job of describing the lower vertical, but at the same time, tries to reduce the upper vertical to the lower. Only a handful of psychoanalysts don't do this, Bion being among them. With him, you retain all of the vast explanatory power of psychoanalysis without infringing upon the upper vertical, the domain of religion, mysticism, gnosis and magic.

As I mentioned above, the materialistic thinker always ends up unwittingly mired in a dark swamp of unconscious thinking. One of the purposes of religion is to provide a luminous framework for fruitfully thinking about -- or within -- the upper vertical. And in fact, it also does a fine job of structuring the lower vertical -- or at least it used to.

I'm thinking of all the extraordinary wisdom embodied, say, in the Talmud or in classical elucidations of the cardinal virtues and deadly sins. A while back we did a series on the esoteric meaning of the Ten Commandments. Same idea. Just as there is such a thing as a healthy body -- obviously -- there is also such a thing as a healthy soul and spirit. But if you deny the soul and spirit up front, then if you remain spiritually healthy, it will be by accident, not design.

So many decent morons of the left hypocritically retain "religious habits" with no religious belief. For example, they insist that marriage is sacred -- so sacred, in fact, that we should extend it to people for whom it is strictly impossible to be married, thereby undermining its very definition (which again, is only in the vertical; to reduce marriage to some sort of purely horizontal arrangement is to destroy it -- as well as the sacred itself).

It's analogous to saying, "eating salad is healthy. So healthy, in fact, that I will place my cat on a strict diet of fresh vegetables." Good logic. Wrong species. Which pretty much sums up the left. It reminds me of a great line from the Gary Shandling show, when his bitter agent says "our job would be so easy if it weren't for fucking talent." Leftism would be so great if if weren't for fucking humans! Humans are the problem. So let's give them more power over us!

Most people don't have the time or ability to be metaphysicians, which is one of the practical blessings of religion. If you eliminate religion, you'll just usher in bad metaphysics.

This is the true meaning of the culture war. The United States used to be one culture with two political parties. The two parties basically represented different groups of interests with the same underlying culture. But beginning in the 1960s, the Democrat party started to represent a new culture, which is not American, for American culture is rooted in Judeo-Christian principles, among other things. All culture is rooted in the cult, which is the "interior glue" that holds a people together and makes them "brothers."

Which leads us to ask: what is the interior glue that holds the nasolabians of the left together? What is the common interest, say, of the corrupt labor leader, the abortion activist, the dysfunctional Teachers' Union, and the homosexual agenda? What is their common cult? Who is the god to whom they all make their sacrifice?

I'll let you answer that question. UF makes the point that our vertical freedom is a miracle, by which he means something that transcends any purely mechanistic explanation. You might say that everything that isn't either chaotic or mechanical is a miracle, i.e., a vertical intervention.

And because of our freedom, we can see that the higher illumines the lower, not vice versa. In other words, in the absence of freedom, we could not know truth, because truth would be reduced to a kind of mechanical operation that excludes us, precisely. So, to say "truth" is to say "freedom" is to say "spirit" is to say "miracle":

"The minimum is only the reduced maximum and it is through the maximum that one understands the minimum, and not vice versa. It is consciousness which renders the mechanical and unconscious comprehensible, the latter being only consciousness reduced to a minimum, not vice versa. It is man who is the key to the biological evolution of Nature and not the primitive organic cell."

The point is, it is the most complete and final form that "illumines and explains the previous stages." Which is why man explains evolution, not vice versa. But what explains Man? Or is that too obvious?

Oops. Out of time. See you tomorrow.

48 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bob:

This is one of your best posts on the problems that ensue from a lack of belief in God.

But--

Aren't you flogging a dead horse here?

You've proven your point many times over in the past.

I'm curious as to why you linger on (or return cyclically to)this particular line of thought?

Your readership consists of people who "buy it" already.

The persistence and vehemence of your attack on "the Godless heathen" must be driven by some kind of agenda but I cannot figure out what it could be, considering your audience.

Yes, I am a troll.

11/10/2008 08:44:00 AM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Since you remain dead, then yes, I suppose I am still blogging your dead horse. But what goes for horses doesn't necessarily apply to their asses. After all, you keep coming back for another flogging, so that's an example of unconscious hope.

11/10/2008 08:54:00 AM  
Blogger walt said...

Even though I've bought it, I've yet to "own" it.

Though I get it, I never "keep it" for long.

When I lose my footing or my balance, Bob re-minds me, helps me re-member. Donkeys are plodding creatures, and appreciate guidance.

Besides, it's fun!

11/10/2008 08:57:00 AM  
Anonymous will said...

'nonmous the troll -

>>I'm curious as to why you linger on (or return cyclically to)this particular line of thought? Your readership consists of people who "buy it" already<<

Sure, there comes a tipping point by which people cross over into gnosis, but . . . people "buy it" in different degrees, different levels of comprehension. Bob's posts are meta-expansive enough so that with further readings on the same theme, we can glean more and more from them.

You know, most scriptures return again and again to one "particular line of thought", just like a symphony returns again and again to a simple theme. That theme, however, is continually restated in different ways. If you're not alive to the variations, you're missing the music.

11/10/2008 09:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bob:

This is one of your best posts on the problems that ensue from a lack of belief in God.

But--

Aren't you flogging a dead horse here?

You've proven your point many times over in the past.

I'm curious as to why you linger on (or return cyclically to)this particular line of thought?

Your readership consists of people who "buy it" already.

The persistence and vehemence of your attack on "the Godless heathen" must be driven by some kind of agenda but I cannot figure out what it could be, considering your audience.

You need to get in line and get with the program. Forget those new people who may come here and see clearly what they have only intuiited in the past.
I'll start you off with a chant which will quell your inquisitive nature and usher you in to the new millenium. It'll be like like a warm opiate enveloping your soul.
Here goes.

Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!,Obama!, Obama!, Obama!, Obama!,

There now, doesn't that just give you the warm thigh tingles?

Yes, I am a troll.

11/10/2008 10:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perhaps a small element with shaky faith still needs killing?

11/10/2008 10:10:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

"Which leads us to ask: what is the interior glue that holds the nasolabians of the left together? What is the common interest, say, of the corrupt labor leader, the abortion activist, the dysfunctional Teachers' Union, and the homosexual agenda? What is their common cult? Who is the god to whom they all make their sacrifice?"

That is the most striking thing about seeing their 'coalitions' together, that there is no visible common interest by way of their agenda's - the uniting thread isn't found in what you see, but what they won't see.

"And because of our freedom, we can see that the higher illumines the lower, not vice versa. In other words, in the absence of freedom, we could not know truth, because truth would be reduced to a kind of mechanical operation that excludes us, precisely. So, to say "truth" is to say "freedom" is to say "spirit" is to say "miracle":"

It really is as simple as that. And few things are more annoying than trying to deny what is so simple to see... no wonder the asses bray.

"Since you remain dead, then yes, I suppose I am still blogging your dead horse. But what goes for horses doesn't necessarily apply to their asses."

Lol.

11/10/2008 10:36:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

"Yes, I am a troll."

It is SO good to laugh.

11/10/2008 10:37:00 AM  
Blogger Ray Ingles said...

The same is obviously true of the mind/brain relationship. Smiling is a manifestation of joy, or humor, or bemusement, which "set in motion both the muscles of the mouth and the electrical impulses of the nerves."

Different levels of explanation for different purposes, but that doesn't mean they conflict.

But it's okay, Bob's just going with the latest trends.

11/10/2008 10:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Petey said...

Timeless and fashion are antonyms.

11/10/2008 10:55:00 AM  
Blogger Niggardly Phil said...

Choprawoo?

11/10/2008 10:57:00 AM  
Anonymous cousin dupree said...

Raysonasolabial.

11/10/2008 11:05:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

or rayson deteor

11/10/2008 11:14:00 AM  
Blogger Captain Ramen said...

You might as well ask why anglicans and roman catholics bother going back to church after 3 years, since they get the same readings in that interval. Be still and know. Then you will get it.

11/10/2008 11:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Petey said...

If one lives in flatland, the realm of soul-depth is foreclosed, so novelty will appear like repetition.

11/10/2008 11:44:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

In flatland, the spiral is the circle, and smiling is just a nervous tic.

11/10/2008 11:53:00 AM  
Anonymous bob f. said...

"Which leads us to ask: what is the interior glue that holds the nasolabians of the left together? What is the common interest, say, of the corrupt labor leader, the abortion activist, the dysfunctional Teachers' Union, and the homosexual agenda? What is their common cult? Who is the god to whom they all make their sacrifice?"

That's a great question, which just means that I don't have a clue...this is like a koan; I'm afraid any 'answer' I attempt will just get me beaten with a stick, or some other zen master response to the inept student.

The Tower?

11/10/2008 11:59:00 AM  
Blogger Ray Ingles said...

Petey - Change and stasis are antonyms too, but that's never stopped y'all before. :->

11/10/2008 11:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Petey said...

It has never stopped m'all because there could no change in the absence of the changeless.

11/10/2008 12:11:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

Hm. Culture appears to be an underlying theme to my ramblings today. Starting here, then on to here, where the author states:

"...this is America, remember: we’re a country of the imagination, a living state of mind. We’re not connected to one another by bloodlines or any depth of native memory. We’re the descendants of an idea that every generation has to learn to hold in its collective consciousness. More than in any other country, it matters in America who we think we are and what we believe we’re doing.

Our academies, the news media that train in the academies, and the entertainment industry that’s informed by the news media have become, to my thinking, a sort of alternative state of the imagination, a kingdom of lies founded in the muck of hysterical guilt, historical distortion, and philosophical solipsism. In their fantastic and labyrinthine narrative, our fascist foes are Nemesis, the emanation of our own sins, and therefore our military can only be the mad or foolish servants of evil."

and in between, this snippet in a later chapter of MOTT (The Star):

"One is noble (in the sense of 'nobility of the heart') in so far as one is a poet at heart. And since every human is in principle a priest, a nobleman and a worker at one and the same time, let us not smother the nobility within us by an overestimation of practical aims or by a preoccupation with our salvation, but on the contrary let us ennoble our work and our religion by bringing in the breath of poetic inspiration.

...

The poet is the point at which the separated waters meet and where the flow of hope and that of continuity converge."

Fractal folds coonverging; not a bad way to start the week, eh?

11/10/2008 12:32:00 PM  
Blogger Robin Starfish said...

Anon 8:44 said...
The persistence and vehemence of your attack on "the Godless heathen" must be driven by some kind of agenda but I cannot figure out what it could be, considering your audience.

Agenda? Simple - to exercise salt and light. What feeds the soul and lights the way for those inhabited by vertical truth is at the same time a toxin to slugs and moths.

Matt 5:13-16 - You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.


It's blindness that causes you to see Bob's "agenda" as a vehement attack on Godless heathen. It's nothing of the sort; instead the light and salt both heal and maim, and are meant to. I daresay that every 'raccoon' that frequents this place was once as blind and some like me can still pry eyes open only at a glacial pace. So the light often singes my earthy wings and the salt kills my slugs, but leaves behind a healthy remnant, a luminous scaffold to build upon.

11/10/2008 12:47:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

And speaking of poetry, here's the sequel to the Klavan essay.

Sorry if I'm wandering too far along the tangent. It's just that "culture" appears to be the secret concept of the day, and each time I come across it I keep hearing that Low Gong a'ringing...

11/10/2008 01:03:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

In other news, the Clergy are America's happiest workers.

11/10/2008 01:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Mr. Robinson said...

Boys and girls, can you say,
"Corrupter in chief"?

11/10/2008 01:19:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

More culture.
(I do hope this isn't getting annoying)

11/10/2008 01:44:00 PM  
OpenID kaffepaus said...

I come here just to get a smile on my face.

/Johan

11/10/2008 01:46:00 PM  
Blogger ge said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11/10/2008 01:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“what is the interior glue that holds the nasolabians of the left together?”

CITY LIFE!

Well, for a while there it was that Bush pissed off all the wrong people: academia, media, attorneyia, intelligentsia... the guys who’re best at digging for dirt and making said dirt public but according to 2008 county by county red/blue election maps it’s back to:

CITY LIFE!

11/10/2008 01:51:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Before I read Bob's great post today, here's something to commemorate the birthday of the US Marine Corps:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY MARINES!!!
OOHRAH!

By Andrew Klavan
11/10/08

Andrew in Afghanistan
From "Five Days at the End of The World" in City Journal, Autumn 2008

I was standing at a military checkpoint outside Ali al-Saleem Air Base, about an hour from Kuwait City. I was hunkered in a three-walled cinderblock shelter with a canvas fluttering overhead. It was nearly 110 degrees. A dust storm was turning the daylight yellow-brown. I had sand in my teeth. I had grit in my eyelids. I was waiting for some Army media guy to cut my orders so I could get on base and catch a military transport to Afghanistan.

And I felt downcast, I confess. I felt bitter and a little self-righteous, too. I kept thinking how, right that minute, there was probably some other screenwriter sitting poolside at the Skybar in LA, pitching his new antiwar story to an eager producer: “Then, see, the GIs devour the Iraqi child’s body to hide the evidence, and we finally understand the dehumanizing consequences of Bush’s foreign policy. Forget box office! Think: prestige!”

I was on my way to Afghanistan because of the movies. Really. Movies like Brian De Palma’s Redacted; In the Valley of Elah, written by Paul Haggis; and Lions for Lambs, starring Robert Redford—movies about the War on Terror in which our soldiers are portrayed as rapists or post-traumatic murderers or naive fools roped in by warmongering neocons. I went because of the movies that didn’t get made, too—the movies that never get made—movies in which the heroic U.S. military defends our nation’s principles of liberty against a low, violent, Islamofascist miscreed. I wrote about these films in City Journal (see “The Lost Art of War,” Winter 2008) and in the Los Angeles Times. I attacked Hollywood for wallowing in outmoded European ideologies and for resurrecting imagery left over from movies about Vietnam.

Then, after a while, I started to ask myself, “Hey, wait a minute. How do you know what a movie about the War on Terror should look like? What would your movie look like, big mouth? What kind of story would you tell?”

Read the rest at:
5 Days At The End Of The World

It's good to see this author and screenwriter having the balls to speak out against Hollywood scumbags who can't handle the truth.

11/10/2008 03:35:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

See, it was so good it got linked twice ;)
OORAH!

11/10/2008 03:42:00 PM  
Anonymous jwm said...

Which leads us to ask: what is the interior glue that holds the nasolabians of the left together? What is the common interest, say, of the corrupt labor leader, the abortion activist, the dysfunctional Teachers' Union, and the homosexual agenda?

I think you answered this yourself the other day- wait a minute...
Here, from last Thursday:

Another danger of politics is that it tends to organize people around their hates. As a result, their center of gravity becomes that which they hate.

I was trying to put my finger on the source of some deja-vu that's been floating through my general disappointment with the outcome of the election. Lileks' piece in today's screedblog helped to zero it in.
I was in my second year of teaching when the LA teachers' union called a strike against the district. I had been following the issue pretty closely, and came to the conclusion that the union leader, and his threatened strike were bullshit. So I had to decide- should I go along with the union members, who were the great majority, and, incidently, included most of my friends at work, or should I go along with the few others on the faculty who likewise disagreed with the union?
You know just how popular you can become on a job by bucking the union? I do. I crossed their picket lines every day, and along with the handful of other who also stayed, kept the school running as best we could.
The union won, and when they returned to work it was with great joy, and celebration- and, from some, bitter shunning for those of us who didn't go out on strike.
So that's sorta' what it feels like now- those first few days when the strike was over, and I was getting used to the idea that I had bought myself a ticket to the pariah club.
I've been reading a lot of post election post mortem stuff, and one of the themes that recurs is that the Republican party needs to drop the anti-abortion, creationists, religious right, and get with the program on the environment, global warming, gay marriage...
In other words, adopt the values of the Lizardoid right. And they're probably correct if they want the Republican party to attract young voters.
That brings us back to the Alignment of Sides. Those who are trying to keep an O centered life and worldview are necessarily going to be fractured out into the smallest of minorities- a remnant as it were. And now as I think of it, Jesus didn't promise his followers that belief in him would get them in with the in crowd. Quite the opposite, if I remember right.

JWM

11/10/2008 04:12:00 PM  
Anonymous marimoishe said...

I'm curious as to why you linger on (or return cyclically to) this particular line of thought?

Hey, Anonymous... tell me, how many times did Christ say "Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me?" (If you don't know, feel free to look it up; after all, this life is an open-book test.)

11/10/2008 04:52:00 PM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

Might as well enjoy the night...

(I know Bob's not much of an early Jazz fan, but this is a fav...)

11/10/2008 06:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And just what is the meaning of this? My head is ‘bout to explode.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/1896_Electoral_Map.png

11/10/2008 07:32:00 PM  
Anonymous jwm said...

At the risk of inducing bouts of toxic nostalgia (see below) in some of the *ahem* middle-aged coons, I give you:

Telstar

Nostalgia gets toxic only if you continually use it to measure the the shortcomings of the present.
I would never do this myself, however. Not me. Nope.

JWM

11/10/2008 07:49:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Another classic rock instrumental from the '60s.

11/10/2008 08:06:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Ben said "HAPPY BIRTHDAY MARINES!!!
OOHRAH!"

Hey Ben, megga Ditto's on that one!

Skully, Grog!

I put up a Happy B-Day to one Marine in particular and all Marines in general, on my site as well.

11/10/2008 08:46:00 PM  
Blogger NoMo said...

And now for my own little offering.

Nasolabial...love that word. It may be the reason I snore.

11/10/2008 09:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Skully said...

High seriousness about [Wodehouse] brings to mind poor Professor Scully.

No relations. Just in case anyone was wonderin'.

11/10/2008 09:59:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"For example, just ask a typical victim of reductionosis -- as Julie attempted to do -- what a smile is."

Another thing about smiles is the eyes.
Someone can smile exactly like they do when they are joyful (many politicians do this) but if you are close enough the eyes will tell you if that person is truly joyful.
Heck, you can even sense it.

That's just many of the reasons that Obama, Biden or Pelosi creep me out whereas Sarah Palin is genuine, no put on.

This is somewhat OT, but perhaps this explains why Ombama is more comfortable with a teleprompter, while Palin is more comfortable without one.
He is uncomfortable being himself, while Sarah is not.

11/10/2008 10:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Skully said...

Anone said-
"Obama!, Obama!, Obama!,

There now, doesn't that just give you the warm thigh tingles?"

More like itchy ass shingles.

11/10/2008 10:16:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Sorry about that Julie. I didn't read the comments first. :^)

11/10/2008 10:21:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

Yikes - after your description of shingles, well, yeah, that sounds about right. And suddenly, I squirming in my chair...

11/10/2008 10:23:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11/10/2008 10:24:00 PM  
Blogger julie said...

No problem, Ben - I figured as much, and just thought it was funny. An excellent article is worth the extra raccoonmendation :)

11/10/2008 10:25:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

JWM-
Well said. People like Queeg fail to see that it isn't either or for most people. Hell, even most lizardoids don't (yet) agree that
social conservatives (who are usually fiscal and national security conservatives too) are to "blame" for the lost election.

Probably no one thing is to blame, but the MSM would be first on my list, followed by the economy tanking, bailouts, perhaps a fear of bein' called racist, in McCain's view.

Afterall, he was much harder on Romney than he was on Obama.
Come to thnk of it, seems fiscal responsibility, or lack thereof by many in the GOP was also a big factor.

I don't see where social conservatives really played a big part in this election. Both candidates were asked just once about abortion, during the debates, and no one cornered Obama about his stance on abortion IRT his record.

We saw what happened with gay marriage, really a seperate issue from the Presidential election, and there wasn't much else mentioned, except for school vouchers by McCain, and he didn't really bring it up a lot.

But you're right, the suckular moderates, RINOS, and the elitist pundits do wanna eject the socons, and, not surprisingly, they hate Sarah Palin and Bobby Jindal.

IMO if a Republican has to vote like a Democrat on most issues to get elected, I don't see where that helps the party of Conservatives. We saw how reaching across the aisle helped Democrats but where did that help Republicans?

I respect John McCain for his service but I wasn't too impressed with his Conservatism. Except for foreign policy, there wasn't a whole lot seperating him from Obama.

11/10/2008 10:43:00 PM  
Blogger NoMo said...

I nominate Ben for president of the resistance!

11/11/2008 06:50:00 AM  
Blogger Zoltan said...

NoMo,

That ""Resistance" domain looks like a Fraud plant, collect personal data for reeducation camp matriculants.

Why should one swear to respect a Fraud, as the sign-up form compels?

OPSEC/COMSEC

11/15/2008 05:22:00 PM  

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