Wednesday, July 02, 2008

The End is Near! Or Possibly a New Beginning...

Very little time this morning. (No time to fully spell- or coherence-check, so bear with me.) I'm tempted to simply go as long as I can in expanding upon a comment left last night by Kepler Sings, because he hums some important melodies. He was also involved in the kerfuffle at LGF, trying to speak truth to darkness, but obviously to no avail. Truly, the ignorance there is as solid as rock, or like a layer of glacial ice. I'm sure you know that kind of invincible ignorance, since you probably once nurtured it -- and proudly so -- yourself. I know that I did.

As Nomo pointed out yesterday, pride is the author of our fall. But pride is not just an attitude, but a lie, and you-know-who is the Father of Lies, especially that one. And as I attempted to say in response to Kepler Sings, I am not so much concerned with whether or not you take this literally, so long as you take it. In other words, these theological formulations are there to convey a timeless truth about man's situation. Obviously, for the vast majority of man's existence, he lived in a pre-scientific world, so that the only way he could convey and assimilate primordial truths about himself was in a non-scientific manner.

If we round off and say that man has been here for 100,000 years, 99,600 of those years were pre-scientific. Apparently, it was only as recently as the "axial age" of approximately 2,500 years ago that man was sufficiently prepared to assimilate the revelation of Truth, for that is when most of the major revelations were downloaded by man -- the Upanishads, the Hebrew prophets, the Tao Te Ching, Plato and Socrates, etc. That these were timeless truths tells us something critical about revelation vis-a-vis the uncreated intellect, more on which below.

But modern man basically equates science with truth, which means that -- and this is something that eludes them entirely -- they end up living in an abstract, secondary world instead of the the primary, Real world. This point cannot be emphasized enough. Insofar as humans are concerned, the scientisic world -- or the abstract, theoretical world described by science -- is not the real world. This is so elementary, that it is amazing that it needs to be said.

For example, despite the fact that they are just Darwinian animals, Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens both want to be married -- in Dawkins' case, several times, in Hitchens' case, twice. The question is, why? The answer is that they don't really want to inhabit the Darwinist fantasy world they champion, nor could any human being actually live in it, because it is not the human world. Rather, their gaseous protests to the contrary, both Dawkins and Hitchens surely want to live in the Real human world, a world that is full of Love, Truth, Beauty, Wisdom, and Virtue, and which clearly transcends anything reductionistic Darwinism has to say.

Again: to have the courage of one's convictions and to live in the Darwinist world of the scientistic imagination would be to live as an animal, not a human. Remember, to a Darwinist, a human being can be nothing other than an animal, pure and simple. Along the lines of our last couple of posts, there can be no radical discontinuity between human and animal -- or matter and Truth, behavior and Virtue, accident and Beauty, etc. It is a subhuman world unfit for Man. Which is again why none of them actually live there. They're all frauds, phonies, and crude loudmouths, including, sad to say, the head lizard.

In his comment yesterday, Kepler Sings reminded us of the doctrine of Adam and Original Sin. In response, I wrote the following (although I'll take the opportunity to edit and expand a bit where necessary):

"I couldn't agree with you more about Charles becoming a profoundly anti-intellectual, illiberal, and right wing mirror of Kos. And I agree with the rest of what you said, although with certain subtle modifications in order to make certain that it makes TOTAL SENSE within the pneuma-cosmic economy. In other words, there's no problem with what you said for someone who already understands it. But the modern mind demands a kind of logical consistency, so I would probably say it a bit differently, even though logical consistency is somewhat beside the point and "extrinsic" to the truth being conveyed. Ultimately you either get it or you don't, so it's a matter of 'presentation.'

"The main point is that Darwinism applies to a limited material domain, whereas Christianity applies to the much wider human world, however you interpret it. However -- and this is just my opinion -- only an esoteric understanding fully resolves any doctrinal contradictions that occur if one views theology in too literal, or materialistic, a manner. Part of the Raccoon mission, as it were, involves formulating these timeless truths in a manner 'acceptable' to modern ears, even though it is not really the duty of truth to be acceptable to man, but rather vice versa. But Petey is wise, merciful, so he does it anyway."

As Kepler Sings properly points out, it matters not one whit to the eternal Truth what science discovers about the supposed origin of the Cosmos, or the "cause" of Life, or the evolution of Man, for it can never touch the higher truths disclosed by revelation to man's uncreated intellect, the reason being that revelation is "intellect objectified," while the intellect is "revelation subjectivized."

Is that clear? This is the one essential point that I am always at a loss for words to fully convey, but I'm going to keep trying anyway. Sometimes I almost get there in the middle of the night, when my mind is empty and I am "shocked" by the miracle of subjectivity, because that is what it is, not a miracle but the miracle, this numinous and luminous humanous window on the world, and which is everything. Truly, it is the Light in the darkness that the dorks will never comprehend.

For this is another of the ironies of science: although science claims a totalistic explanation of the All, it does so at the expense of the true All, which is consciousness itself, for only the human subject has access to this All through the interior window of consciousness.

In other words, in a metaphor I have purloined before, science absurdly attempts to prove that the tree doesn't exist by growing more leaves. And this is the Tree of Life, or the Upanishadic tree, with its nonlocal roots aloft and local branches down below. Human beings have the unique privilege of knowing this tree, and yet, they proudly choose the fruit of that other naughty tree! I don't care what science has to say about the meaning of human life, so long as it subsists on the fruit of that withered tree. Does this make me some kind of religious fundamentalist? I hardly think so. Rather, it makes the bovine materialist a scientistic fundamentalist.

Or, for you lizards and trolls in Rio Linda, science reduces consciousness to a meaningless side effect of material processes. Now, no one who is himself "conscious" could possibly believe this nonsense. And I am apparently using the word "conscious" in a very different manner than the materialists, and this is one of the big problems, for if we cannot define our terms up front, we will simply generate a meaningless dispute. As I have said before, I do believe that man's lower consciousness can in many ways be explained by Darwinian principles, for man does partly inhabit the horizontal world, on pain of not existing at all.

But our primary home is the vertical world, and it is strictly impossible to derive it from any purely horizontal world without doing great violence to man -- in fact, annihilating Man as such. It is quite literally a kind of genocide, which is again what is so disturbing about the darkness of LGF. For the first principle of conservatism is that there is a real transcendent order to which man owes his primary allegiance. This is another way of saying that man lives in a vertical world which is the real and enduring world, in contrast to the horizontal world of ceaseless change and mutation. No enduring principles can be derived from that world, at least none that apply to the human world per se.

This downward spiral into scientistic anti-humanism cannot continue indefinitely without eventually hitting bottom and then crashing through to the other side, thus completing the cosmic inversion, i.e., the Fall. Kepler Sings notes that "Revelations tells us a time comes when God is so present on the earth that men cry for the mountains and rocks to cover them, lest they see the face of God. Darwinism is the beginning of that cry, men looking to rocks and dirt to hide them from the absolute creative power of God. Now that cry is an intellectual cry, but it will fill the whole of men, and they will seek physical death, rather than face this reality.

People pretend "that something, anything, some force, non-force, quantum vacuum, or the vacuum in their heads produced all that is, or ever has been, or ever will be, instead of this person we call God, but hardly know. Because to admit that all is created by a person, demands that the only real reason for life, for all this observation, for all our relationships, they do only one thing, point us to that person. Or rather THE person.

"Only someone insane in some way, would live in a great house where food comes through the door morning and night, you hear voices all day, activity throughout the house, and you never leave that room to investigate? To find out who built, or owns the house?"

This is again where the "Raccoon project" comes in. I wish I had more time for a fully coherent explanation, but I need to wrap this up. As time moves us further and further away from primordial truth, reality begins to "harden," which is the true source of modern man's rigid and desiccated materialism. This lifeless rigidity, or spiritual rigor mortis, eventually, like a cataract, occludes vision of the higher, while at the same time opens him to a flood from the lower, and then causes him to confuse this flood of vital energy with spirit. Thus, vitalism, both physical and intellectual -- becomes man's new religion. Either you see this or you don't.

One or two thousand years ago, man was able to live in a "general revelation," but this is no longer possible under modern conditions. This is why religion has become more of an individualistic project, since the individual must now do what the community once did in the past (and no longer does), which is to say, understand and assimilate the revelation. Fortunately, due to the law of inverse reflection, the Spirt -- and God's mercy -- is actually more available to human beings today than ever -- not because man is better, but precisely because he is worse. Whereas in the past, the seeds of spirit were a kind of widespread propagation, today it is more like an intense laser beam that must apparently work on one person at a time. No longer could an entire civilization be transformed by a single revelation.

In short, we have moved from the Age of the Father, through the Age of the Son, and are now in the Age of the Holy Spirit. Whether this represents an "evolution" or an augur of the "end times" is a discussion for another night.

118 Comments:

Blogger mushroom said...

Sometimes I almost get there in the middle of the night, when my mind is empty and I am "shocked" by the miracle of subjectivity, because that is what it is, not a miracle but the miracle, this numinous and luminous humanous window on the world, and which is everything. Truly, it is the Light in the darkness that the dorks will never comprehend.

You do about as good a job of conveying it as I can imagine possible. That's why we are all hear here.

But our primary home is the vertical world, and it is strictly impossible to derive it from any purely horizontal world without doing great violence to man -- in fact, annihilating Man as such.

The devil has it pretty easy these days. Lots of hands make light work.

Fortunately, due to the law of inverse reflection, the Spirt -- and God's mercy -- is actually more available to human beings today than ever -- not because man is better, but precisely because he is worse.

"Where sin did abound, grace much more did abound"

7/02/2008 08:38:00 AM  
Blogger slackjack said...

Just wanted to say I think my "raccoon" education is starting to take in a hopefully deeper way. For example, I started reading "Incompleteness" last night and find it utterly compelling.

As a longtime closet "neoneoplatonist" having a more solid foundation for what my intuition has long led me to believe is greatly appreciated.

The path goes on...

Thank you all.

7/02/2008 09:07:00 AM  
Blogger Ray Ingles said...

"Along the lines of our last couple of posts, there can be no radical discontinuity between human and animal..."

Driven pendulum -
radically discontinuous.
Just one extra push...

7/02/2008 09:21:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

This downward spiral into scientistic anti-humanism cannot continue indefinitely without eventually hitting bottom and then crashing through to the other side, thus completing the cosmic inversion, i.e., the Fall. Kepler Sings notes that "Revelations tells us a time comes when God is so present on the earth that men cry for the mountains and rocks to cover them, lest they see the face of God. Darwinism is the beginning of that cry, men looking to rocks and dirt to hide them from the absolute creative power of God. Now that cry is an intellectual cry, but it will fill the whole of men, and they will seek physical death, rather than face this reality.

There's no hidin' place 'round here
There's no hidin' place 'round here
I went to the rock to hide my face
And the rock cried out:
"No hidin' place!"
There's no hidin' place 'round here.

7/02/2008 09:27:00 AM  
Blogger Magnus Itland said...

It seems to me that for an ignorant and simple-minded man, taking the Bible literally would be a great boon: For he would do (and think) many things right that he could not have figured out by himself, being ignorant and simple-minded after all.

Likewise there are smart and knowledgeable people who can read the Bible without taking it literally at all, but rather seeking from it the timeless revelations while filtering out the "Iron Age science" automatically as they read.

For the man in the middle, however, problems arise. For he will tend to either blend his scientific knowledge into the Bible, or blend the Bible into his scientific knowledge: In each case, he will read into it something that was not intended.

7/02/2008 09:43:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

I shouldn't dive in without finishing the post... but at the risk of a fall myself, I've got to make note of this, regarding Nomo's link yesterday,

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


I have a problem with "Pride" being identified with that. I suppose I'm quibbling, but... no, no I'm not, is that 'Pride'? Proper Pride or false pride? Posturing as if you are worthy of something you are not, is not Pride... it is an attempt to rewrite reality, to pretend that things are not what they are, and that YOU are omnipotent enough to pull it off, by 'virtue' of your say-so and your desire that it be, despite (to spite) the Truth.

That is what most certainly cometh before a fall, but it is False Pride... and pardon my saying, but the mistaking of false pride with actual pride, is, I think, one of the neater switcheroo tricks that ol' scratch has pulled over on us, under cover of our approval, while everyone was looking.

Yes, someone can get puffed up... a little short in their circumspection, thinking "I've done this! Isn't it Great!" neglecting to consider what and whO else may have been involved, but while that might be a bit insufferable, it is a mistake, and not equivalent to the intentional assault upon the Truth which false pride is.

Proper Pride, is good, it is valuable, it is recognizing and acknowledging that something is good and worthy and deserving, such as having pride in our nation this July 4th. The humble bumbles of obamama and rev wright are just as pretentious in their assaults upon reality and Truth as Lucifer's above - but many people let them slip by, thinking that denouncing them would be an unseemly display of the "pride that comes before a fall", when it would in fact be a proper display of the worthy Pride that is due to an actual good, and a rebuke to the enemies of the Good, the Beautiful and the True.

I think it's important that we be careful not to pass to the enemies of Truth, our own ammunition.

7/02/2008 10:25:00 AM  
Blogger julie said...

I think, Van, that a better word for that kind of pride is hubris.

7/02/2008 10:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Alan said...

When I saw the latest post on evolution on LGF yesterday, my initial thought was "wow, he's really trying to push a religion" - or anti-religion.

What a change in focus for this site. It's kind of like Oprah as well.

Then I saw the great posts/comments yesterday and today here.

7/02/2008 10:32:00 AM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Once again, amazing things transpire when Bob has "very little time".

"...modern man basically equates science with truth, which means that -- and this is something that eludes them entirely -- they end up living in an abstract, secondary world instead of the the primary, Real world. This point cannot be emphasized enough." Or repeated enough. Materialism, scientism, Darwinism, and the current dense fog of unreality in all its forms rank right up there with some of Ol' Screwtape's best work - for he is already picking from between his teeth the remains of his victims.

Magnus - It does indeed take all parts to make up a body. I claim the part of "simple-minded". 8^)

Regarding our friend Ray. I have come to believe that he is compelled to daily return to the coon den for reasons other than he understands. Though on the outside looking out, beckoning those inside to join him, he senses the warmth and light of the reality within, waiting for some kind of switch in him to flip. What greater longing can there be for an invisible man but to catch some rays and be seen - for Real.

7/02/2008 10:35:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

Van: Pride and dignity. Pride that is a sin says, "I deserve..." Dignity that is not says, "I am..."

A man who is truly great never talks about his greatness. To do so would be pointless; it would not add to his greatness at all for him to talk about it.

They say that humility is the 'active forgetfulness of one's accomplishments' - not passive which would be some kind of mental condition of self-pitying nonsense.

Or like Jules said, "Hubris!"

7/02/2008 11:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Rabid said...

I'll admit. I hope that Lucifer rises in my head--like a snake from the dead--but when he does, I certainly won't go on imagining that I'm king of the world when it's not true. The Lord is disembodied from me, though He too is on the way, I believe, and will incarnate just like lucifer.

Context on Lucifer.

7/02/2008 11:17:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

"But modern man basically equates science with truth, which means that -- and this is something that eludes them entirely -- they end up living in an abstract, secondary world instead of the the primary, Real world."

It's not much, but Ray calls it home.

7/02/2008 11:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Aquila said...

The Geek Religion -- a great distillation of the mentality currently infecting LGF and other formerly hospitable places on the Internet.

7/02/2008 11:40:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

"I don't care what science has to say about the meaning of human life, so long as it subsists on the fruit of that withered tree. Does this make me some kind of religious fundamentalist? I hardly think so. Rather, it makes the bovine materialist a scientistic fundamentalist. "

I completely cooncur. The Determimystic, the scientistic deterministic materialist, is far more the raging fundamentalist than the most literalistic of the Theistic Fundamentalists could ever be; and though I've compared the Fundies and Determimystics to being two sides of the same coin, the Theistic Fundamentalist is Heads up higher than its dark underside, and while the coin may seem thin, its but a technicality of appearances, there is an infinite difference and separation between Heads and tails.

When I first read Kepler Sings's comment this morning, my head was slightly torn between nodding and shaking... a tremor of the Jesus willies I suppose... but only because I feel that the too literal usage of Religion somewhat lowers its Poetic Truth from on high... ehh... not lowers... flattens it...(?) just a bit, or so it seems to me. But on rereading it, on considering the Truth of what he said... willies aside, I had no fundamental disagreement with what he said, precisely because it was, IS, True.

Follow any of Rays links, and the context within which he links them, and a better, sadder, illustration of this, is hard to find.

7/02/2008 11:41:00 AM  
Blogger Ray Ingles said...

The noted authority Gagdad Bob, citing Shopenhauer, once wrote: Is the quantum world the "cause" of the familiar Newtonian world of solid bodies moving in space? No, it is not. It is the same reality, only regarded "in a totally different way from the way I normally perceive and think about it. The same object is being apprehended in two ways which are completely different, and yet both are valid -- both, if you like, 'true.'"

About the same way consciousness is understood by people who don't resort to supernatural explanations. They live in a world of Love, Truth, Beauty - a primary, Real world, the way even a quantum physicist lives in a world of solid objects - but they can also look at them another way, too.

7/02/2008 11:41:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

What Magnus said.

7/02/2008 11:42:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

Julie said "I think, Van, that a better word for that kind of pride is hubris."

uhm... partially, but I think hubris more applies to the example of limited pride, the kind that fails to look beyond their own immediate assessment of the Just payment of credit where credit is due.

The luciferian false pride, is more an ... explicit, blatant and unabashed envy, masquerading as pride.

The first, the hubristic can, without much difficulty, slip into the second, but they are different in kind.

I think a good example would be to compare Oedipus Rex and Richard III - Oedipus is guilty of too quickly concluding that he grasps it all, can fix it all, that looking beyond what is apparent to his eyes, is unnecessary... and we can all relate to doing that in some sense or degree, that's what makes it a tragedy.

Richard III isn't a tragedy, it's a history of unflinching evil setting the stage for its own destruction.

Oedipus we can have pity for... Richard III... only disgust and acknowledgment of just desserts served.

7/02/2008 11:56:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

River said "Van: Pride and dignity. Pride that is a sin says, "I deserve..." Dignity that is not says, "I am...""

I think you've got a sense of it there. The person running around saying "Look! Look what wonders I've done!", you'd be wise to look closely for the other sources he's neglecting or omitting.

Sometimes you have to look close though. While the words may be the same, there's a difference between the Pride a Father feels for his Son, who beaming with Pride says "That's my Son", and the corroded pride that says "That's MY son" - but if you look and listen, the first will probably be followed up with "He has faced up to, overcome and accomplished ..." whereas the second will probably follow it up with "I showed him how to do THAT! He couldn't have done X without MY help! I spent so much time showing him..." and on and on and on.

"A man who is truly great never talks about his greatness. To do so would be pointless; it would not add to his greatness at all for him to talk about it."

I think true Pride is more an over-swelling of recognition for what has been accomplished, that something Good, Beautiful and True is not only deserving of recognition, but if properly recognized will itself convey and spread the Good, Beautiful and True - what has been done, rather than Look at what I have done!. I wouldn’t rule out a person saying with worthy pride “I did this”, but the “I” he refers to, has little to do with the “i” the other is directing attention towards.

The second almost certainly is a misfocused myopia, and subject to the fruits of Hubris.

7/02/2008 12:18:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Good comments today -- "Geek Religion" -- I love it. That explains a lot -- the puny left-brain intellectualism of the LGFers, who, in their anal obsessiveness, place arbitrary manmade limits on the intrinsically limitless. In short, for whatever reason, they stop asking why, and end in an indefensible absurdity.

7/02/2008 12:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Johan said...

Yes, great posts and very good comments lately as well.

Just has to say that I acctually went the other way, from the right wing LGFish world to the Coonisphere, so there is maybe hope :)

I found the laser beam anallogy of grace really good and I think it's true. According to Pierre Teilhard de Chardin for example, humanity are evolving towards more and more individualisation and personalisation, which is only possible because of our inwardness. There is no other way for grace to work, but on the individaul person, since the "collective mind" is more and more breaking up.

One thing I thought about lateley was how the leftists always has to "create their collectives" from the bottom up, or from the "outher" and not "inner" of humans. It's always about your class, race, gender, and so forth... while classic liberalis always has to create collectives from top down, "by the mind" or "by spirit" so to say. It can never be forced. Minds has to connect by will to truly unify.

maybe things has to be "worse" before they can be "better", or more personilised before they can unitè?

Bonus:
Van Morrison is coming to Stockholm on the 18th July. Certainly not going to miss that!

7/02/2008 02:04:00 PM  
Blogger Ray Ingles said...

The Geek Religion -
the unquestioned dogma of
strawmen everywhere!

7/02/2008 02:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Wizard said...

Ray, I seem to recall that you called yourself sorceror.

7/02/2008 02:37:00 PM  
Blogger walt said...

Johan -

Just yesterday, in a speech about religion and faith, Mr. Obama said, "Change doesn't come from the top down. Real change always comes from the bottom up."

7/02/2008 02:54:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Ray Ingles, lifelong strawman and official representative for strawmen® everywhere!

7/02/2008 03:00:00 PM  
Blogger NoMo said...

BTW - Some raccoons paid our little pond a visit last night and enjoyed some nice sushi. I'm struggling not to hold it against all raccoons.

But I'm pissed.

7/02/2008 03:05:00 PM  
Anonymous scatter said...

Yes I'm just a Darwin nuffin'
my head all filled with stuffin'
a self-refuting loon
But I'd dance and be merry
Life would be a ding-a-derry
if I only were a Coon

7/02/2008 03:19:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

"I couldn't agree with you more about Charles becoming a profoundly anti-intellectual, illiberal, and right wing mirror of Kos."

And, along with that, what used to be a "common" decency, or at least good manners is now a RIPshody of thinly disguised, (if that) deep-seated hatred for anything non-Darwinian.

Which is why we are compared with Nazi's, Islamofascists, and Communists, and are, allegedly, seeking to subvert our Constitution and usher in the evil Theocracy our Founding Fathers somehow failed to do with the common use of Bibles and prayer in the classrooms of their day.

Yes, we are as great a threat as terrorists, the SS, and Stalin's murder squads. Who knew?
Presumably Ben Stein, the DI and Bobby Jindal does, because they have been planning (the Wedge issue!) to do this for quite some time.

Too bad Charles blew our cover. We wwere "that" close to taking over the world, weren't we Mr. Biggles?
Bwahahahaha!

7/02/2008 04:55:00 PM  
Blogger Joan of Argghh! said...

At some point we are bidden to let the dead bury the dead.

There was a post by Rachel Lucas today, lamenting the inhumane results of a society that rejects transcendence. I mostly like Rachel's blog but find her thoroughly childish in her reasoning when she wants to describe her take on religion.

And she can't see the inconsistency of logic in her own claims to logical process.

It makes you just want to say something, anything. But then you know that age-old truths can be as simple as, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

So too, with LGF and host of others who fashion themselves "advanced". Not bad people, just badly deceived by the allure of being thought "intelligent."

I am happily a fool for Truth.

The "real world" described by the events outlined in Rachel's post just doesn't hold a candle to the True World. (Thanks, Puddleglum!)And yet Rachel, LGF and all the rest cling to their artificial light as the only truth. It really does make them look green. Is that normal?

Me? Even in the green light of pomo "reason" I can remember a golden sun-filled beach by a vast blue ocean and how it can tell me more about Truth than all the wonderful and thrilling scientific facts ever can.

Don't be hatin' my Truth, bro! I'm in a bettah place!

7/02/2008 05:11:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

I once sampled Rachel Lucas, but found her to be insufferably crude and vulgar.

7/02/2008 05:42:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Well said, Joan!

It is rather odd, I think, that one could discuss terrorism or white nationalism in Europe or leftist lunacy amicably at LGF, but at the mere mention of ID it's like you're talkin' to a Kos kid.

In fact, I believe this entire obsession of Charles is growing, and it's far more than the issue of what is taught as science in public classrooms.

I sensed this primarily because of two things, one of which was the lumping together of all things not RD (you're either an RD or you're an ID/Creationist), and the other was the vicious attitude towards anyone not an RDer.

If Charles was this obsessed with what is being taught (and what's not) in our public education system, then there are far worse things to post about, such as pseudo-science, multiculturalism, diversity, feminism (the bad kind), communist and socialist ideals, class envy (but I repeat myself), queer studies, socialism, revisionist history, "new" math, etc., etc., and these are far more prevalent than anything involving ID.

7/02/2008 05:46:00 PM  
Blogger walt said...

In re-reading today's post, I noticed you wrote:
Fortunately, due to the law of inverse reflection, the Spirt -- and God's mercy -- is actually more available to human beings today than ever -- not because man is better, but precisely because he is worse.

This reminded me of something Schuon wrote:
In former ages the spirit was more or less ubiquitous but was more difficult to reach and realize just because it was present everywhere: its very boundlessness precluded easiness. It was there but had a tendency to disappear; today it is hidden but has a tendency to give itself.

Apart from compensatory graces, which are in themselves independent of the evil of our times, there are advantages in this evil itself: the world has become so emptied of substance that it is hard for a spiritual man to be too attached to it; for this reason the man of today, if he is contemplative, is already half broken.

7/02/2008 05:48:00 PM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

The age of the Father started with matter, and ended with the Incarnation. The age of the Son started with the first Revelation and will end with the last Revelation (when tongues and prophecies will cease) and the age of the Holy Spirit began with Pentecost...

Interlockin' hypostatic chronologies!

7/02/2008 05:56:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Walt--

Yes, a number of people have said it in various ways. It's not original to me, as evidenced by the first comment by Mushroom.

And Ben--

At daily kos the other day, some idiot had a post about ID, and you literally could not tell the difference between the comments of the kos kids and those on LGF. And that's saying something! If my blog ever attracted that kind of mass stupidity, I'd be so mortified that I'd shut it down in a nanosecond.

It really is disturbing, because it shows that extremes do indeed meet. I'll be posting more on that idea in the future -- the idea that LGF is just a mirror of Kos. This is not to say that LGF is always wrong, only that Charles is "accidentally" right instead of essentially right. Again, it is a distinction that makes all the difference.

7/02/2008 05:57:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

River:

That was one of those things that just popped out of my cabaza, but I like the idea that the age of the Father is the Jewish revelation, the age of the Son being the Christian revelation, and the age of the Holy Ghost commencing when the Word has been preached in every corner of the earth.

Assuming that the latter more or less occurred by around the mid-20th century, this would account for much of the extraordinary spiritual turbulence since than, as the whole terrestrial-spiritual world undergoes a transformation.

Of course, I have nothing to back this up. Except perhaps from Will, who might share a similar dream. But that would be enough for me.

7/02/2008 06:05:00 PM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

Ah, I think they are not 'disjunct' periods but 'one decreases so the other may increase' With a distinct point of beginning and end that overlap.

In Orthodoxy, it is said The Son is the one who gives us unity, who joins us together in his Body. It is the Spirit that gives us diversity and individuality through his grace and chrism.

Therefore, there has been since Pentecost, I think, the 'seed' for the age of the Holy Spirit.

7/02/2008 06:13:00 PM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

(Er, it is also said that while the spirit worked ON men before Pentecost, it did not dwell WITHIN them. The Lord being an exception, since it was always coming to a rest in him since the beginning anyway.)

But we're of course using explicit religious terms. It makes it easier to get what we're talking about but not to really grok it, since its beyond them words and stuff.

7/02/2008 06:16:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

So basically, the Essentialada of the Whole Existentialada became an existentialistic threat to Charles' flat worldview.

I remember readin' one of the comments, years ago, at LGF, which said something to the effect: Charles was a liberal who got mugged by reality after 9/11.

Obviously that commenter meant a new reality tv show or something that only appears as reality but not the True Reality.

I'm glad you're bloggin' more on this, Bob.
This appears to me something we can learn from, not to mention interesting to ponder, bad as it is.

I mean, if someone told me, last March, that LGF would turn into Daily Kos within months, I would not have seen how that could possibly happen.
Disconcerting, to say the least.
And somethin' I hope doesn't spread (or perhaps I should say reveal it's ugly head) to other sites I once considered conservative/classic liberal.

Now I am even more thankful for you, Bob, Mrs. G. and FL, the OC and Raccoons than ever! :^)

7/02/2008 06:24:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Ben--

Check out this daily update at the dreaded Discovery Institute, and decide for yourself who's emotional, irrational, and agenda-driven!

7/02/2008 06:36:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

And I don't know anything about the Discovery Institute, only that they at least sound calm and rational, unlike LGF.

Re Charles, in hindsight, something seems to have snapped at the time of his over-the-top dispute with Gates of Vienna, Fjordman, Atlas Shrugs, et al. Knowing nothing about it, I had instinctively assumed that Charles must have sound reasons. Now I assume he's off his rocker.

7/02/2008 06:42:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

New Age America is Entranced by Obam. Ya think?

7/02/2008 07:07:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Thanks Bob. That's actually the first time I visited the DI site.
Nope, nothin' imflammatary there about Darwinists.
No comparisons to terrorists or nazi's. Not even any overt ridicule, that I could see.
Certainly no projection.

7/02/2008 07:25:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

LOL! From that article:

"The best-selling American new age guru Deepak Chopra is fond of the word "quantum": reading his work, one begins to suspect that he has it set up as a shortcut in Microsoft Word, so that he doesn't have to type it out in full every time he wants to refer to "quantum health", "quantum healing" or "the quantum mind".

This kind of thing makes physicists want to sob uncontrollably, so they've learned to ignore him. But not long ago, Chopra used the word in a new context that bears closer inspection: if Barack Obama enters the White House as president next January, he declared, "it will represent a quantum leap in American consciousness"."

Brit reporters can be so funny sometimes. I get the feeling this one ain't a New Ager.

7/02/2008 07:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Elaine said...

I can’t vote for him. He’s like some sort of Svenjolly.

7/02/2008 07:39:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Unfortunately, he is a leftist:
"Already, the right, in the form of unhinged pundit Michelle Malkin, has started exploiting the story to mock the Democrats. And Obama has quite enough to do to fight the threat of pigeonholing - as "the black candidate", "the elite candidate" - without becoming the kooky candidate too."

Unhinged pundit? As opposed to the merely kooky Chopra, San Francisco reporter that calls Obama a "lightworker" , and Oprah?
No, of course they aren't unhinged.

Apparently, as with every leftist I know of, the irony escapes this Brit reporter in qauntum leaps.

7/02/2008 07:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Jerry said...

What did you say?

7/02/2008 07:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Obama said...

You can vote for me.
And you will.

7/02/2008 07:40:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Your Jedi mind tricks won't work here, Obama.
These aren't the droids you are looking for.

7/02/2008 07:43:00 PM  
Anonymous R-2 said...

Bleep! Wrrr! @#^&$%!

7/02/2008 07:44:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Hi Ben!

7/02/2008 07:45:00 PM  
Anonymous C-3PO said...

Watch your language, R-2, or Master Bob will sell you back to those horrible sand people!

7/02/2008 07:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Princess Leia said...

Help us, Obi-Wan Scatter, you are our only hope!

7/02/2008 07:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Master Yoda said...

Doo or doo not, there is no try.

7/02/2008 07:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Morty said...

My wallet’s gone!

7/02/2008 07:49:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Hiya Rick! :^)

7/02/2008 07:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Jerry said...

Thanks a lot, Elaine.

7/02/2008 07:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Wedge said...

Why is Charles making my name an "issue?" I'm a pilot for the Rebel forces.

7/02/2008 07:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Elaine said...

Obama is sponge-worthy!

7/02/2008 07:54:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Only through the magic of the OC can you see the cast of Seinfeld and Star Wars (and much more!) together!

7/02/2008 07:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Kramer said...

I knew Jackie Chiles. Obama is no Jackie Chiles.

7/02/2008 07:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Obama Cantknowme said...

May the force bewitchyou

7/02/2008 07:57:00 PM  
Anonymous George said...

I declare this the summer of Barack!

7/02/2008 07:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Jabba the Hutt said...

Obama: a free pizza in every Hutt!

7/02/2008 07:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Jerry said...

Did you ever notice that Michelle looks like James Brown?

Hey, how can that be an insult? I love James Brown!

7/02/2008 08:00:00 PM  
Anonymous J. peterman said...

Barack needs to buy some of John Kerry's war stories for his autobiography.

7/02/2008 08:01:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

(click, click, click…)

Ben, I think I’m out.

7/02/2008 08:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Boba Fett, Bounty Hunter said...

I don't have a Dog in this fight as long as I get payed well.

7/02/2008 08:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Jerry said...

Barack's children are... breathtaking!

7/02/2008 08:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Newman said...

Did you say free pizza?

Hello....Jerry.

7/02/2008 08:03:00 PM  
Anonymous the soup nazi said...

No soup for Wesley Clark!

7/02/2008 08:04:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Ha ha! Some good one's Rick!

7/02/2008 08:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Mel Brooks said...

Merchandising, merchandising, merchandising!

7/02/2008 08:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Jabba the Hutt said...

I'll have my pizza with Mushroom on it.

7/02/2008 08:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Chewbacca said...

Hooonnnkk!

7/02/2008 08:06:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Ben,
You’re a Seinfeld fan!
Com’ere ya big lug.
*smooch*

(Not that there’s anything wrong with that…)

7/02/2008 08:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Han Solo said...

I don't care if you like it, you big hairy ape, but I'm going green! Got it?

7/02/2008 08:08:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

No no, as long as I don't hafta wear the puffy shirt, Rick!

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

7/02/2008 08:09:00 PM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Sorry, Bob.
Couple Raccoons made a mess up there. I don’t wanna name names but…clean up on aisle One.

7/02/2008 08:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Darth Vader said...

The carbon-offset for the Death Star was murder!

7/02/2008 08:11:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

I dunno, Rick...soon as someone BIG sees our screenplay we'll make Bob a very rich man, so until then, I'm sure he don't mind.

Or is that "then" he won't mind?:^)

7/02/2008 08:14:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Of course, first we gotta write it. I have an idea, let's make it about a group of cosmonauts who don't really do anything except slack all day and throw around witty banter.

7/02/2008 08:16:00 PM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

Aah, see GB has noted the time-link with the whole Gates of Vienna,etal. Agree.

As tho a knot of darkness got released & started a feeding-frenzy, trying to consume everything in it's path. As I recall, it even spilled over onto Dr Sanity's site around that time.

What ever else can be said of LGF now, I'll always be grateful to have found Dear Leader there, and followed his comment back here to the Raccoon Den.

7/02/2008 08:20:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Ximeze-
Aye! I'm glad you followed Bob over here too! :^)

I wonder just how many discovered the OC through Bob's LGF comments?

7/02/2008 08:25:00 PM  
Blogger Fido said...

I’m all ears, Ben.

7/02/2008 08:39:00 PM  
Blogger Fido said...

I practically had to drag the Captain here from American Thinker. Before that it was Rush. Now there’s a guy who could bankroll our pilot, Ben.
Well…I mean you and the Captain’s pilot, that is. I’ll make some coffee.

7/02/2008 08:45:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Well, that's easy! Bob's the pilot and he seems to be pretty frugal, so we ain't talkin' about a fortune here.

Perhaps three figures. I'm not very good at negotiating though, so your milage may vary.

7/02/2008 08:55:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

I'm sorry to say this, but...

7/02/2008 09:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Luke said...

Father, I know there is good in you...

7/02/2008 09:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Obamama Vader said...

You don't KNOW the power of the Dark side!

7/02/2008 09:18:00 PM  
Anonymous chad vader said...

Go to Youtube

Type in my handle

Choose "Day Shift Manager" (episode 1)

7/02/2008 09:18:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

(May the force forgive me)

7/02/2008 09:18:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

Ximeze said "...As tho a knot of darkness got released & started a feeding-frenzy, trying to consume everything in it's path..."

Having just finished watching the 1st of the new "Battlestar Galactica" series... this whole darkness frenzy is very disorienting.

Keep away from robots in red dresses.

Good night.

7/02/2008 09:24:00 PM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

Huh, I noticed that timing as well. I'm in kind of 'big' with the GOV guys (a 910 Group guy was the one who first linked me here) and I discussed with Baron and Zee and some others - there was this issue with some potentially anti-Semitic stuff in Valams Belaang or however it is spelled (I know not!) But what I got from one side was that there might be some anti-Semites involved but there were also JEWS involved, so it was a big tent, and from the other side rabid conspiracy-mongering about various symbols found among VB literature and propaganda.

I think I had had it when there was the whole 'Odin's Cross' thing. I was like, "Oh, fer chrissake. And if the only party standing up to Islam in europe turns out to have a few ex-Nazis or white supermacists in it?"

Charles moved from one fantasy (pre-9/11) to a new fantasy - whatever that turns out to be. Recently he's been on a big 'darwin / scientism' kick. He never used to even bat an eye about it. In the beginning it was all about reporting the stuff we didn't know was going on about Islam and in the middle east.

The dogs bark... but the caravan moves on.

7/02/2008 09:26:00 PM  
Blogger Gagdad Bob said...

Having spent 12 years working in a supermarket while putting myself through college, I am a big fan of Chad Vader.

I often wish I were still in the market.... Much less complicated life...

7/02/2008 09:27:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

(I like the ice cream isle. It's cool)

I AM going to bed!

Sheesh... you'd think I was a kid or something.

7/02/2008 09:31:00 PM  
Blogger Van said...

(can I have some water?)

OK!

7/02/2008 09:31:00 PM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Ssshhh...I'm trying to sleep.

7/02/2008 09:45:00 PM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Perchance to dream...

7/02/2008 09:48:00 PM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Excuse me...supermarket boy...where's the rub?

7/02/2008 09:55:00 PM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

Just a couple masked bandits turning over trash cans in the middle of the night...

7/02/2008 09:56:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

River-
Well, I'm not defending Charles, but I do think he was right to a certain extent (as far as not allying with white nationalists go), and that's only to the extent that Robert Spencer and Shrinkwrapped agree.

For instance, in the case of the BNP or French nationalists.
As for VB I have no idea how extensive white nationalism is in that party, but it does seem to be considerably less than the other two I mentioned.

And I do concur with you Charles took his objections ridiculously too far.

But Shrinkwrapped, after writing a fairly benign post, even for him, about European white nationalists got a pretty ugly post from Dymphna and some guy I never heard of that claimed to be from GoV (not Baron).
Not sure if you read SW or not, but SW is nothin' like Charles, so I was kinda surprised at the time.

Then again, maybe Dymphna is just overly sensitive to the subject, and she overreacted like Charles did. I hope that's the case, in any sense, and that she realizes that SW ain't an enemy to GoV, 'cause he still links them.

7/02/2008 09:57:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Nomo-
Rub? That's the stuff we used to call that you put on ribs, brisket, or whatever, before smoking (in a BBQ smoker, not like...inhaling).

Anyway, seems an odd thing to want right before bed. Unless you're smokin' all night in a slow smoker.

7/02/2008 10:06:00 PM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

BTW River-
Not meaning to be contentious here, which is why I'm clarifying.

Charles has gotten more unhinged with every passing day it seems, so truthfully, I have no idea whether his information on VB was correct or not, and frankly, there was far to many links for me to have time to read, so I more or less took his word for a lot of that info.
This is a good and fair article fromn American Thinker regarding VB:
http://www.americanthinker.
com/2007/11/political_black
_ops_in_belgium.html

As the writer mentions, there is a lot of contentious and sourceless info at Wikipedia concerning VB, and the two biggest parties in Belgium have overt racists in them, which is a weird concept for us.

Also, the media, for the most part, is state-owned in countries throughout Europe, and whoever is in power has great influence over them which happens to be the Left, usually. Disinformation, smears and lies are far more commonplace throughout Europe than it is here.

As for the BNP, it's clear they are indeed white nationalists and anti-semites, although the Labour Party is also rife with anti-Semites too.
The Tories, although far more liberal/left than our conservatives are the least anti-Semite of the British parties and, fortunately, are fast gaining power and popularity in Great Britain, with "Red" Ken being the first casualty of Labour with far more to follow (I got a few pals over there).

In any sense, I condemn any party that promotes racism, anti-Semitism, Communism, Socialism and any form of Fascism (left or right).

VB doesn't seem to fit so nicely into that mold as Charles claims, although the BNP does, as does several other right and left-wing parties throughout Europe.

7/02/2008 11:19:00 PM  
Anonymous ximeze said...

Did you guys read "Is Europe Repainting Its Nazi Past?" by Janet Levy on AT last weekend?

She tries to tie ALL of my beloved Soccer Thugs to rising Anti-Semitism in Europe, even tho the dates she cites match the rise of large numbers of Muslims living there. As tho she were trying to discount those growing numbers of Muslims. But why? Are non-Muslims a 'safer target'?

Course, inside I immediately red-lined in defense of my boisterous cohorts in stadium madness. Testosterfests par excellence, are games in stadia - nothing like it, especially in wussiefied Europe.

River, it was your comment about who's gonna stand up to Islam over there that got me thinking about this. What must it be like, internally, to have EU pressure to dissolve your national identity, lose your currency, lose national sovereignty & be told YOU'RE not doing enough to accommodate the non-integrating aliens who are swamping your country, and not be able to do anything about it?

Anyone with an ounce of testosterone would be livid over the loss. Here's my question: do you suppose it's possible the 'neo-fascist' thing is a response to encroaching Islam, which is not 'safe' to criticise, so gets redirected towards the 'much safer to criticise' Jews?

Much like the way Christian-bashing is 'safe' here in the US, but if you criticise Islam: look out!

Not at all sure I've made much sense here, but maybe I should sleep on it to see what rings-true in the morning.

7/02/2008 11:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Alobama said...

"Truly, the ignorance [at LGF] is as solid as rock, or like a layer of glacial ice. I'm sure you know that kind of invincible ignorance, since you probably once nurtured it -- and proudly so -- yourself. I know that I did."

Let's start here: you confess that what you now think of as "invincible ignorance" was once (let's say, what...20 years ago?) upon a time clearly just as right as the coonishly fashionable viewpoint you're currently nurturing? OK, sounds progressive. What's next?

"As Nomo pointed out yesterday, pride is the author of our fall. But pride is not just an attitude, but a lie, and you-know-who is the Father of Lies, especially that one. And as I attempted to say in response to Kepler Sings, I am not so much concerned with whether or not you take this literally, so long as you take it. "


So much for logical progression, or forward movement in general. May I pick out a dominant threadin your thesis statement? "...pride is the author of our fall,", leading us as reader to the assunction that your current station in the hiererarchical scheme of things exempts you from this sin?

Naw Bh'aaaaab. Coming from a child I could buy it. Coming from you it smacks of Jonestown Cruelaid.

You're as prideful as a man can be. It's in the Coonish jeans. Deny it without using "I" if you will. Or better yet skip the plea bargain and just delete all the cajoling proise from your published mosthead, drop your distinguishing GD moniker, and be content to live in the world you wish for rather than the world as it is. Or is your talk also cheap?

I've only made it two paragraphs into your diatribe today and already you've soiled your trousers. Sorry to be so dour. I"ll tune in tomorrow when you might be speaking to truth instead of lies. Your own not exempted.

7/03/2008 12:33:00 AM  
Blogger USS Ben USN (Ret) said...

Aloblahma-
Can you possibly be more incoherent? Don't worry, that's a rhetorical question.

Geez, I miss when the trolls could actually make a point, however idiotic, with some semblance of rationality.

7/03/2008 12:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Alobama said...

Ben, thanks for the complimeant. Have another on me. Ask Scatter for the exegesis.

7/03/2008 01:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Alobama said...

Sorry USS Bean USN Rat. That was onkind of me. Here's some stuff you can decode: R2D2, rickyraccon, Johnny Walker, Now Here Dish...

There now. Has the deck stopped rollin'?

7/03/2008 01:14:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

xim, Ben: My impression was that none of the parties mentioned and supported by the GoV folks were clean, but that in fact there really weren't any 'clean' parties to be found. I stopped being involved in the debate because I didn't feel like on one hand defending people that may have been racists, and on the other hand spinning conspiracy tales that were too tall to be true. I guess that I'm not enough of a political partisan to get involved.

7/03/2008 03:40:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

alobama: With the difficulties in the economy lately, I take it that coherence has gone up in price?

Well, as I said earlier, The Dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

7/03/2008 03:45:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

alomahora said "I"ll tune in tomorrow "

Why?

7/03/2008 05:13:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

By the by, coons. I'll be stepping out of blogging and related activities for awhile. It's something that's been doing the wrong thing for me (I suppose you could say) for a good length of time now.

I'll still comment here some, I think, (like this for instance!) but I'm going to be cutting it all back until it approaches zero.

Wanted to let ya know that I'm not dead, just slacking off.

7/03/2008 06:24:00 AM  
Blogger Ray Ingles said...

Wizard - Yup, 'sorceror' was the default name from my gmail address, the name of which came from an older address, which came from a still older address, all the way back to a high school user ID.

Once I got a chance to look at the blogger options, I changed it. I'm not a big fan of pseudonyms. Anonymity, or even the illusion of it, generally leads to... well, we've all seen it.

7/03/2008 06:39:00 AM  
Blogger NoMo said...

Understood, Riv. That's why I never started. Slack off!

7/03/2008 06:42:00 AM  
Blogger Van said...

River,
As someone said, "The End is Near! Or Possibly a New Beginning..."

Enjoy the Slack (but do try to squeeze enough slack into the slack to comment when possible - I'd hate for the River to run dry here, its always refreshing)!

7/03/2008 06:54:00 AM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

Riv,
What Van said.

7/03/2008 07:17:00 AM  
Blogger Ricky Raccoon said...

“…leads to…”

With the topic here of recent weeks, Ray, I gotta say, you seem to worry about the silliest things.

7/03/2008 07:50:00 AM  
Blogger mushroom said...

Yep, that's the problem with anonymity -- it allows your true nature to come out.

In real life I am a drunken, wife-beating, redneck Darwinian atheist.

You guys really had some fun on here last night.

7/03/2008 08:31:00 AM  
Blogger Ray Ingles said...

Mushroom - I wouldn't call it the "true nature". Better, perhaps, to call it the parts of their nature that they fear the social consequences of loosing.

It doesn't have to be profanity and vulgarity; that's just what shows up in "gamer" "culture". Anonymity's just naturally polarizing - people say things they wouldn't say in person, indeed that they don't even necessarily mean if they reflected about it at all.

7/03/2008 08:53:00 AM  

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