Tuesday, December 26, 2006

Today's Score in the Game of Evolution: Conservatives 25, Leftists 0

I'm starting to wonder how I've been able to keep blogging everyday with a baby in the house. He was up last night from about 2:45 to 4:00. Bottom line: I ended up sleeping until about 6:30, then taking care of him until 8:00, since Mrs. G. is also sick. No time for blogging. Therefore, I'm reposting a couple of things from about six months back. However, they are relevent to the discussion we've been having lately, since they explain in empirical terms why I see no need to integrate leftist ideas into my world view. (Previously entitled "Today's Score: Conservatives 25, Progressives 0," and "Progressives: The Hurrier they Go, the Behinder They Get."

*****

In Chapter three of my book I survey history and culture, looking for evidence of what I call “mind parasites” that are ultimately rooted in different different styles of child rearing and which are responsible for so much cultural pathology, including the pathology of Islamism. Although my ideas may appear somewhat speculative, I believe that they cannot not be true once you understand the underlying principles involved.

I just finished a new book that confirms many of the things I wrote in that section, The Central Liberal Truth: How Politics Can Change a Culture and Save It from Itself, by Lawrence Harrison. Although Harrison calls himself a liberal, the book absolutely demolishes many ideas that are central to contemporary liberalism -- most particularly, multiculturalism, cultural relativism, and any kind of liberal victimology, for the book demonstrates with hard data how cultural beliefs, attitudes and values are the key to understanding the evolution of society. The book is actually somewhat shockingly -- but thoroughly refreshingly -- politically incorrect, and says some things that even Petey would probably hesitate to blurt out in public.

In the preface of the book, Harrison -- a long time USAID director -- notes that all of the underdeveloped or underprivileged countries or cultures he worked in were plagued by the same pathologies -- disrespect for law, lack of cooperation with one another, acquiescence to (and extertion of) unbridled authority, passivity when encountering problems, lack of civic consciousness, lack of trust, and pursuit of narrow personal interest. It is much easier for scholars such as Jared Diamond to blame geography, insufficient resources, or “guns, germs, and steel” for the failure of so many cultures, but this entirely begs the question of why certain groups -- most notably, the Jews or East Asians -- thrive wherever they are allowed to take root. In each case, they have a "portable culture" of extremely healthy and adaptive values that stand them in good stead.

Harrsion approvingly quotes the great scholar of Islam, Bernard Lewis, who wrote that “When people realize that things are going wrong, there are two questions they can ask: One is, ‘What did we do wrong?’ and the other is ‘Who did this to us?’” The latter question leads to paranoia, conspiracy theories and liberal victimology, which is why the Islamists and international left share a common cause -- they have the same underlying assumptions about reality and about who is at fault for it.

The book shows how deeply rooted are some of the pathologies of the left. I did not know this, but even in 1948, the American Anthropological Association opposed the U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights on the grounds that each culture must decide for itself “what is true, good, beautiful, and efficient,” and no cultures were any better or worse, just “different.” Thus, “liberals” found themselves at odds with a document calling for such things as the right to life, liberty, and security of person, equality before the law, and freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. The more things change....

It never ceases to amaze me that liberals think they are doing these people a favor by supporting their cultural pathologies. As is always the case with leftist thought, it is a monstrous arrogance and condescension masquerading as compassion. Harrsion quotes a brilliant African scholar named Daniel Etounga Mangelle, someone I relied upon in my book. At a conference, he responded with sarcasm to such leftist nonsense:

"I am going to tell the truth. We Africans really enjoy living in shantytowns where there isn't enough food, health care, or education for our children. Furthermore, our corrupt chieftaincy political systems are really marvelous.... It would be boring if free, democratic elections were organized all over Africa. Were that to happen, we would no longer be real Africans, and by losing our identity -- and our authoritarianism, our bloody civil wars, our illiteracy, our forty-five year life expectancy -- we should be letting down not only ourselves but those Western anthropologists who study us so sympathetically and understand that we can't be expected to behave like human beings who seek dignity.... So let us fight with the full support of those Western scholars who have the wisdom and courage to acknowledge that Africans belong to different world.”

It is so glaringly obvious to me that the vast majority of really destructive racism comes form the left, not the right. Undoubtedly individual racists exist, but they are nothing compared to the institutional and ideological racism of the left. Professor John McWhorter, who happens to be black, describes in the book the devastating impact of liberal racism on African Americans. He writes that since the 1960s, the core of black identity has been “rebellion and disaffection.... Misbehavior and criminality are not the only ways this is expressed. Even the most educated blacks with the most assimilated demeanors get their 'black authenticity' stripes to the extent that they subscribe to the notion that being black remains a battle forty years after the Civil Rights Act.”

McWhorter writes that young blacks are indeed “victims” -- not of what they call “racism” but of liberal ideology. This pathological and self-defeating world view would have utterly perplexed “the black Americans who worked so hard before the 1960s to pave the way for blacks to make the best of themselves in an imperfect world. Realizing that culture is the main problem now rather than racism or societal inequity, our task is to pull black America out of [its] detour, freeing us from self-fulfilling prophecies of recreational racial indignation and returning us to a clear-eyed, proactive race leadership that will allow us to truly 'get past race' for good."

As I said, I can't believe this book was written by a so-called liberal. It actually gives me hope for the future.

On pp. 36-37 of Harrison’s book, he lays out a helpful summary of those traits that are characteristic of the evolutionary “progress-prone” culture vs. the static or degenerative “progress-resistant” one. They fall under four main headings: “Worldview,” “Values and Virtues,” “Economic Behavior,” and “Social Behavior,” with a total of 25 subcategories, or "factors."

Beginning with Worldview, it seems to me that the characteristics of progress-resistant cultures are almost an exact description of modern liberal victimology. Regarding the subcategory of “destiny,” the liberal victim is beset by “fatalism and resignation.” With respect to “time orientation,” their obsessive focus on past or even present grievances discourages working hard for the future. Under the heading of “wealth,” liberals generally regard it as a “zero-sum” enterprise, which lies at the heart of their income-redistributing policies. Likewise, knowledge is “abstract, theoretical, cosmological [hey! I heard that], not verifiable.” Exactly. As we have had occasion to discuss many times, liberal academia (specifically, the humanities) is filled with deranged, kooky, abstract, unverifiable and utopian cranks. The rest are just crazy.

The one last subcategory for Worldview is religion. Here you might think that the left has the upper hand, and in most contexts you might be correct. But Harrison makes no distinction between pre- or irrational religiosity vs. the type of sophisticated religiosity we discuss on this blog. Thus, there is no question that the secular left is more rational than primitive African animists or practitioners of Haitian voodoo (even if they themselves would deny that fact because of their PC belief in cultural relativism). But I don’t believe for a moment that modern secularism is more rational than my metarational and transdogmatic religious philosophy. In fact, by comparison, merely secular philosophy is a sophisticated child's game. Furthermore, it remains to be seen if the secularized, hyper-rational societies of Western Europe will even be able to survive their irreligiosity. By and large American religion hardly dismisses the world -- rather, it promotes achievement and material pursuits. It is probably too material for my tastes.

So for the category of “worldview,” conservatives trounce the left four to one or possibly even five-zip.

The next heading is Values and Virtues, which has three subcategories, “ethical code,” “the lesser virtues,” and “education.” Here again, I don’t see how any intellectually honest person can give the nod to the left. Progress-resistant cultures have “elastic” values, while progress-prone ones are “rigorous within realistic norms.” Progress-prone cultures emphasize small virtues that actually end up making a huge difference, such as tidiness, courtesy, “a job well done”.... to which I might add, politeness, not cursing in public, and being free of off-putting tattoos, tongue piercings, and pagan "body art." To the progress-resistant culture, these small virtues are unimportant. (The thing that most strikes me about dailykos or huffingandpissed, aside from the shrill adolescent anger, is the constant, unnecessary profanity. I'm all for the necessary kind.)

The last subcategory is Education, and here again you might think that progressives are at least in the game. But just look what the progressive educational establishment has done to our educational system. They have been in complete control of lower and higher education in this country for at least 50 years, and it is a disgrace. Furthermore, they are specifically opposed to truly progressive policies that could turn things around, such as fostering competition by introducing vouchers into the system. And let’s not even talk about what progressives have done to the university in my lifetime. For one thing, I don’t have enough time. I have to be out of the house in 30 minutes.

The next main factor is Economic behavior, which has seven subcategories. This one is so self-evidently in favor of conservatives that it’s hardly worth debating. Progress-prone cultures believe that competition leads to excellence, that advancement should be based on merit, and that work is one of the primary purposes of life (the “protestant work ethic”). They try to foster a spirit of entrepreneurship, risk-taking, innovation and investment.

Conversely, the progress-resistant are suspicious of prosperity--it is a threat to equality because some will get rich, thus provoking envy. They are uncomfortable with competition, as it is a sign of aggression and a threat to both equality and privilege (such as the privileges enjoyed by the teachers union or by tenured wackademics or New York Times editors). And, of course, they are constitutionally opposed to the idea of merit, and instead believe that the government should get involved in giving special privileges to different racial, cultural and gender categories.

So for economic behavior, it’s conservatives 7, progressives bupkis.

The last main factor is Social Behavior, which has the most subcategories, ten. Some of these are frankly rather bland and neutral, and, being charitable, it is fair to say that most Americans of whatever political stripe share them: belief in the rule of law, a belief in checks and balances and dispersed authority, and the responsibility of elites to society. Others are a bit misleading, for conservatives clearly believe in gender equality, they just don’t believe in gender equivalence.

Other categories that are less innocuous fall clearly in favor of conservatives. For example, the progress-resistant leftist ulture has a much stronger identification with the narrow community -- i.e., multiculturalism. Progressives believe in dividing the country along racial and gender lines, so that one’s primary identification is not, say, “American” but “African American.” Likewise, the progress-resistant culture emphasizes the collectivity rather than the individual (except when it comes to the right to show your breast on TV or ride a bicycle naked in public to protest the war).

The last category is Church-State relations. According to Harrison, the progress-prone culture is “secularized” and believes in a “wall between church and state,” whereas the for the progress-resistant culture, “religion plays a major role in the civic sphere.” How true. The adverse impact of mixing church and state is never more clear than when the religion in question is “Leftist Progressivism.”

87 Comments:

Blogger River Cocytus said...

As for Church/State relationships, the real question is: Does the religion control the state or the state the religion? Either case is a 'non-wall'.

---

A funny thing, I was speaking to my mother about Anthropology (which you mentioned.) She told me something rather... interesting. She said that when there was the 'awakening' and people, more or less realised that there was this thing-- culture-- that people had, and that there were literally thousands of them (such an interesting thing to study!) people went out (anthropologists) and studied different groups willy-nilly.

But something happened-- not sure how far along the way-- they recognized that many people were lying to them. After all, what incentive was there to tell the full truth, if any? Some white guy comes and writes down everything you say with great interest. I would have sport with the fellow, even a bit. Not to mention that in more xenophobic cultures, it might be considered wise to deceive outsiders (ugh.)

They thought that they would have to throw away everything they had! These were the same folks who were resistant to the Human Rights declaration-- these people who were at one hand so naive about the people they had studied and yet so cynical about virtue. And they had been duped!

After that, they took a much slower and more careful route -- living there a while, not writing down things people told them unless they were confidants and friends -- etc. From THAT anthropology (much of what I studied in college) you get an odd sense of how SIMILAR people are, instead of different.

I asked my anthro teacher (a gentle soul) why that was not mentioned at all-- how cultural studies, done with depth and discernment revealed a common nature, with differences mostly on the surface?

She told me-- it wasn't in the curriculum. And to her credit, it seemed to bother her. Guess she was a classical liberal at heart.

12/26/2006 10:20:00 AM  
Blogger ximeze said...

Bob said: "it is a monstrous arrogance and condescension masquerading as compassion"

Exactly right. And not at all lost on the third-world recipients either.

In my(first hand)experience, every single one was hep to the farce being played out in front of them & rightly annoyed when they were ask to participate.

Up the hill from our house in Paraguay there was a shantytown, many of who's inhabitants were aflicted with leprosy. The kids would come down & be instructed by their mothers to tease our German Shepard, sticking their hands thru the gates, to elicit a bite, and thus a chance at receiving money in compensation.

We could watch the whole thing unfold before us, from up above,
from the screened-in porch that ran the front of the second story, while we lolled in our hammocks.

How desperate would one have to be to instuct one's child to do such a thing, and not just once, but repeatedly. Also knowing that if the dog was rabid, as many of the free roaming dogs were, nothing would save your child. If the bite simply got infected, no ER to hop down to, no antibiotics, not even anticeptic soap or salve, much less a bandaid.

It's the inhuman cruelty that results from those "high minded" ideas, that gets me. Just like us, swinging in our hammocks, up there behind those screens, they are free to jet out of a place like that. If they ever even bothered to come down to a place like Paraguay at all, soon they would go back to the "real" world, the First World, leaving that misery behind. And to add insult to injury, patting themselves on the back for a job well done.

Saw a wonderful vignette on Travel Channel recently, hosted by Tony Bourdain or Ian Wright, I think. It took place in some Godforsaken boat stop along the Amazon River or the Rio Negro.

Mein Host was talking with a subsistance "farmer" who grew manioc along the river bank. Seems that Sting makes regular visits, to film there & uses the footage to promote his "save the rainforest" hooie.

When ask if he, the farmer, looked forward to these visits, he
responded: No Way! Those fools show up here, thirty or more at a time, and trample the crop setting up their film shots. This is the only clearing near here & they want to shoot Sting with the forrest in the background. (bet he wouldn't mind using his machete on Sting either)Last time they did this, we had nothing to eat or trade with, for a whole growing cycle.

Then the farmer bottom-lined it:
"If Sting thinks this is so great, he can take my *%@^%$ place!"

12/26/2006 11:31:00 AM  
Anonymous GLASR said...

Haven't we been trying to put our large framework over humanity since the Revolution? It's so messy though, we(some of us) call a time out, lose our will, stomach turns on us. Recent history has us slamming on the brakes before we even get up to speed. Think - the Hiss brothers crawl into FDR's head. Looks contagious, if Truman listened to Patton, the OSS, MacArthur ... well you get the point. OK, we Big Banged the Middle East, the horizontal will reap positive rewards. Next logical step? Take a can opener to Africa? The Chinese and Europeans have economic boots on the ground, they're our friends remember. Ethiopians just started mixing it up with the jihadis(who gave that green light? The UN? heh heh) We are ensconced in Djibouti, even have a joint military/American business community venture going on. Keep our lefty politicians on track(don't you just bleed for the folks who voted for those "outta Iraq yesterday" dems? lol!), keep an eye on the other sides 5GW warriors. The future is starting to look a little brighter for the poor, starving, oppressed peoples in a large geographical area, no?

12/26/2006 12:24:00 PM  
Blogger dicentra63 said...

As we have had occasion to discuss many times, liberal academia (specifically, the humanities) is filled with deranged, kooky, abstract, unverifiable and utopian cranks. The rest are just crazy.

Amen!

Though I did know some professors in the Cornell literature programs who did not fit into this category: one was a devout, Jesuit-trained Catholic from Spain, one in Comparative Literature (Student: "So did they ever find out what was wrong with St. Teresa of Avila?" Professor: "There's no evidence that anything was wrong with her."), and one in the English department, who believed in the bible.

I put them on my dissertation committee because I was writing about the Spanish mystics and I didn't want anyone insisting that I question their religious experiences.

I know that Bob knows that there are good ones still left; I just thought I'd mention a few specifically for the sake of instilling hope.

For example, the progress-resistant leftist ulture...

See our "ulture"? Notice that there's no "C" in it? That's because we can't [see, that is]."

12/26/2006 01:15:00 PM  
Blogger dicentra63 said...

Speaking of using the free market to solve the problem of poverty: try microcredit.

I saw a documentary about it in which poor people would get a loan for some insanely small amount (from our perspective)--$50, for example--and they would use that money to purchase the means to start a cottage business.

For example, a woman in the Philippines buys a sewing machine, which she uses to sew together old juice boxes into colorful handbags. The bags are popular and she uses the profits to buy more sewing machines to employ her neighbors. Pretty soon, she has a modest little business going.

Interesting facts:

The microcredit people at first concentrated on giving loans to the men, but found that women were far more reliable at paying back the loans.

Women were also more successful in their pursuits, and when they made money, they used it to send their kids to school, whereas men were more likely to waste it on gambling and booze.

Most of the loans get paid back in full, something like 80%.

Contrast this method of helping the poor countries with that of our current government: direct money transfers to the corrupt third-world dictatorships, which they use to line their pockets, pay off friends and family, buy arms, and in other ways solidify their power. (Roads and bridges? What?)

If I ever have the money to spare, I'll be sinking it into these microcredit programs (they rely heavily on donations). I can't think of a better type of third-world aid.

12/26/2006 01:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Fat Freddy's Cat said...

I wonder how the good professor accounts for the fact that dreadfully sane "freedom" loving America accounts for 48% of the worlds armaments trade, and the 700 or so USA military bases on foreign soil. And such an ignoble institution as the School of the Americas which is/was a training ground for the right wing death squads etc etc that operated throughout Central & South America in the 80's and 90's.

12/26/2006 02:54:00 PM  
Anonymous uss ben said...

My prayers are with your ill son and wife, and you, Bob.

I hope you all get well soon.

These posts are better the second time around.
This was an excellent disection of a terrible disease that the left is afraid to operate on, or treat.

Harrison does a superb job, exposing these mind parasites, introduced by the Left, and sustained by envy and fear.

Integrate these destructive parasites?
Whatever for? Self destruction?
No value or virtue in these insane ideas whatsoever.

Dicentra-
That is an excellent idea for charity.
Helping folks directly, to help themselves is the best kind of charity IMO.

The only big charity I give to is the Salvation Army, who have an outstanding record.

But helping someone who actually has a desire to help themselves is by far the best use of charity dollars.

This used to be a standard of giving.

Does that mean I wouldn't give to a young drug addict or alcoholic?

Yep.

Sounds cold, but if an otherwise healthy person that is capable of work chooses not to, and not to fight their addiction, they choose self-destruction...albeit slowly, therefor a waste of time and money to try to help.

Hunger is a great motivator, and forces a person with a self-destructive mindset to rock bottom much faster, which is actually more helpful than coddling them and supporting their destructive habit.

I mean, it's insane for some states to give addicts disability payments.

It's worse in countries like France, that give cradle to grave benefits...even to those who choose not to work when they can.
Or those who are holding out for management.

No. I will give to those who cannot help themselves, and those who want to help themselves.

No middle man, no dictators, and no self-destructive partiers looking for a free handout need apply.

12/26/2006 03:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Oscar Von Spock the Dog said...

Fat Freddys Cat-
Bob isn't an accountant.
Especially to ignorant ideas like yours.

12/26/2006 03:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Jimmy J. said...

A Young woman from Kenya, Africa, June Arunga, asked herself questions about wealth and poverty as she was growing up. Some of the things she asked were:

"My friends and I theorized about wealth creation and wondered if there was a formula behind it or if it was just chance. Why did some countries have so much wealth and we were so poor?............

I knew that something was wrong and wondered how I could make it better. It pained me to see people with even masters degrees living in slums. What baffled me most was why the people in government made promises that did not come true.

Surely if other governments had plans that worked to facilitate the creation of wealth, our leaders needed to abandon the plan they were following and imitate the magic formula of prosperous nations...........

I wondered whether there was a fixed amount of wealth in a given territory demarcated by political boundaries. If that wealth was the raw materials within those boundaries then it required careful planning to determine the most efficient way to allocate those resources so everyone could gain."

June then speculated about whether corruption was a genetic trait and only Africans were cursed with it.
She tells of wiser people telling her the government just needed to step up and fix this program or that one and all would be well. She marvelled at how smart government bureaucrats had to be in order to plan the economy for 30 million people. (Yep, and it never seems to work.)

But then June discovered that the ownership of private property backed by the courts and a system of legally transfering that ownership was what was lacking in Kenya and most other countries in Africa. She has started to campaign for government reform and new proprty laws.

There are plenty of smart, hard-working, thrifty people in Africa. What they don't have is the ability to own property and have courts defend their rights to that property. Most African governments are kleptocracies that will steal valuable businesses and properties from all but the best connected citizens. That means capital flees. When that happens, mass poverty ensues.

Micro-credit can help a small business person in the Third World get a leg up, but most dare not become too successful, lest the government steal their business.

As June guessed, their is a fomula for economic success.
Unfortunately, the right to own and dispose of property by every citizen is antithetical to tribal culture where the Chief and his Big Men normally control most property and how it is used. Tribalism is still very strong in Africa and is one reason why they have failed to pass property laws that would attract capital.

12/26/2006 04:00:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

RIVER C said..."...the real question is: Does the religion control the state or the state the religion?"

[River-C, for Shame! YOU KNOW state & religion doesnt mix in Leftie politics worldview & thats a big phat No-No to even ask! Psshaww! KGB will come get you for that one!] ;)

Had typed a comparison to share contrasting Hitler + his politics/religion versus Stalin + his politics/religion and the differences between the two; but as you said, "either case is a non-wall."

My point is when Narcissists are in control of either the State or the Religion, End Game outcome is same: Totalitarian rule is the only acceptable goal for them - or death to self via suicide, inside-job murder (from within own party), or violence by an outside force (like us & A-bomb.)

The pathology of Narcissism knows no bounds at its worst and is usually not responsive to Love, Absolute Truth Principles, etc. bearing on it becuz it serves only its relativistic self-enamoration-as-god, thus it becomes its own "religion."

Its Narcissism-as-religion that has the power to "change its spots" & remain cloaked & infiltrate like a chameleon along every aspect of the entire Horizontal axis (EEEEK!) as we've seen Stalin, Hitler and countless other Dictators of various "faiths" do in history & in the present.

Thats just the "good news."
Now for the "bad."

When you combine a Narcissist Dictator with a nation (group of others) that are also "Narcissistic" (or professional Victims) instead of defending their true identity and rejecting the Narcissist-Dictator, instead the victims take on and even hunger for the symbiotic relating with the Identity the Narcissist holds out to them.

Narcissist Dictator oddly enuf responds to Narcissist nations/groups.]

Such was the case w/the German people hungering for Fascism - And Hitler stepped in & filled the void for them. They got what they demanded & thought they wanted, hence a symbiotic relationship formed. Didnt quite work out like they expected, though - a real consequence when relating with a Narcissist.

Hence, Narcissism is able to move from the individual level to metastisize into the populace levels, specifically when combined thru the Religious and Political aspects of the Horizontal.

It is the Religious aspects more than the other Horizontal ones which crosses over from H into Vertical axis (more so than economic & political); therefore, Narcissism can infect not only the expected Horizontal axis, but also the Vertical axis. Why is this a problem?

Isnt this condition actually what all Dictators foreshadow & what the anti-Christ's reign is all about? Anti-Christ is the zenith of the sick symbiotic relationship that can develop when a Narcissistic leader is combined with a Narcissistic nation. Given the rate of developing Narcissism in this country via the Left's current rate of pathology ... well you can do the math to figure out how many years before "we" are overrun completely by them, before America via the Lefts Narcissism sets itself up for another Totalitarian Dictatorship to step in and take control.

The Left will be in love with Herr Dictator at first, fawning all over him/her/it. Our types will be the first ones to be cut out since we are hardheaded dissenters. The Left will be "in love" and enamored with their leader - until they realize in full horror the consequences of their imbecility. Decades of consequence their evil Narcissistic-ad-nauseam self-love will finally bring home will bite them in their blindside in a way that will be out of their hands to control, or even respond properly to at that time (frogs boiled in pot.)

Narcissism in the world is increasing; dictators, extremist groups, hate crimes, terrorism, radical groups, radical wings of every known religion - a mass invasion of the Horizontal and Vertical is easy enuf to see even without talking to extremist Conspiracy Theorists and Paranoid Right-Wing Wackos.

So whether its the State that controls, or the Religion that controls; whether its visible or invisible; formal or informal; the Narcissistic ideology is ALWAYS wrong and pathological. IT is the one usually at the Crux of the matter of evil -- an -ISM running the show and pulling the puppet-strings of politicians, religions, nations, certain ideologies, Govts & Churches, peoples, groups, etc.

If any Leftie disagrees with me about Narcissism, then show me & prove it otherwise. Denial is why the Left avoids responsibility for their inherent Narcissism and refuses to face it with personal moral accountability & responsibility...that failure to progress into Healthiness is why we say they are evil / unhealthy / sick, etc.

And yes - Healthiness is not just a "relative" term - there is healthy and not healthy, good and evil - in other words, Absolute truths and small relativistic truths. Only blind & rebellious & unwise men refuse to admit such Truth/God.

So, in answer to your Q: "Does the Religion control the State, or the State the Religion?"

I'd say neither - its Narcissisms evil that controls Both the other monsters.

Eliminate THAT - and both the State and the Religion are no longer in danger of either being the perpetrator nor being victimized by Narcissisms evil followers - no matter the venue it tries to infect horizontally.

Such a condition may only be possible in Heaven. I dont believe in Utopia here due to the very reality, presence & proliferation of evil.

Both Politics and the majority-supported Religion (Leftism & Liberal Progressive Protestantism / Liberal-ISM) all fail to address & deal with Narcissism properly - then What is The Result?

The Question I have in return for You, RIVER-C, is:

1. Is "Narcissism infection" happening more now due to a "one world order" Political Ideology working behind the scenes to progress? If so, which one(s) infect the Horizontal axis?

2. Or: Is infection due to an invisible pathological Religious (Church) Ideology operating behind the scenes? And if so, which one(s) infect the Horizontal and Vertical axis?

Is it any wonder we dont want to and should not want to ever "integrate" Leftism or anything like it into our worldview? Neither would I marry a Narcissist for same reasons!

Narcissists and their twins - Leftists - will find no support here. For that Sanity, I breathe a Sigh of Relief.

Wolves at the door must be faced squarely & beaten back or killed before they infect and ravage a House, Church, family, politics, nation, etc. It wont due me any good to feel overly compassionate for Wolves & refuse to kill any when they threaten to eat me & destroy my children, faith, ideals, etc.

The Patriot movie shows us this reality and hard choice must be made in times of war.

And if we do not do our job, who will?

The Leftists never will attack their own Wolves - for they are the very Door thru which evil enters in.

Gollum was enslaved to the Ring he loved, and could not be counted on to come against himself or the Ring for long. Hence the ideology you serve either saves you or destroys you.

To me its less about Politics & more foundationally about Religion / moral belief system - if the moral root is rotten, the rest (branches) are sure to be rotten as well.

But if the Religious belief system changes in order to face & defeat Narcissism within it (from Narcissism-of-self-as-god --> Changes To --> Submission-of-self-to-God) the rest can follow & heal & grow upright. This is why its necessary to cocoon and examine thyself and submit to God instead of stoopidly insisting self is god.

Lefties: I dare you to embrace the path of Submission - its not even a political Ideology but a Religious one we *should* be agreeing upon since you claim to be progressive & usually Christian. Lets see what you got & havent got. Put up or shut up. Any takers??

Are there any with courage amongst your kind to face such a challenge??

- PsychoPrincess -

12/26/2006 04:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Scepter or specter said...

Takers? Right here and left here, you pompous, pontificating egoists & narrow-thinking bombasts. Right and Left here. In Spirit, PP et al, In Spirit. Always with you.

We haven't your pretty words and the string of ideas, worn around the neck like pearls or skulls, like other Tribal Leaders who constantly flaunt their stature to the easily influenced. No. It is not our way. Ours is a less specific realm. (LOTR. Elven versus Man. You claim to understand it.) Yet the ground we occupy is the same spiritual real estate you fight for: the acreage of the soul.

Even though we fight for the same soil, here is the difference between our battle plans: we yield to you your hard-earned soil. We can see that you belong to it, and it belongs to you. We walk away from this fight knowing that you deserve to stand where you stand, that it is your right. Pun accepted. And:
Where you see the either/or of a Finite God with limited real estate, we see the limitless capacity of the Ultimate Creator: You can still be right. And so can we. To each. According to his/her understanding. It is your ego which binds you to your ideas, your skulls. So long as you are the Owner of Your Ideas, your head bows lower to the ground as your percieved successes accumulate.

You refer to our notion as Relative Absolutism. I refer to it as relative absolutism. Neither makes these words, this idea, any more or less than your own.

I bow to you and your ideas. I understand that they make perfect sense to you. I chaff against only, and remind you of, this: your criticism of those not like you. Keep learning, little one. While mathematics plays its role in the ordering of all things, we were creatively designed. Analog, dear one, not digital. Remember Who You Are.

12/26/2006 05:16:00 PM  
Anonymous cousin dupree said...

Uh oh, that's gonna leave a mark. On your hand.

12/26/2006 05:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Scepter or specter said...

Spoken like a true tattoo. Er.

12/26/2006 05:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Skully said...

Did someone mention skulls?!

12/26/2006 05:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Scepter or specter said...

Skully:

Nice site, finally! My hat's off to you sir. Skulls mentioned are not of the culinary bent.

12/26/2006 06:07:00 PM  
Anonymous hoarhey said...

I pick specter:

Hey specter,

.....?

specter: (spek'ter). n. 1. a visible incorporeal spirit, esp. one of a terrifying nature; ghost, phantom, apparition. 2. some object or source of terror or dread: the specter of disease or famine.

Spooooky!

12/26/2006 06:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Scepter or specter said...

Hoarhey,

Spooky in deed!

BTW, my moniker isn't an either/or decision, but a statement. Draw that inference out as large as you are able.

And please - leave the projectionist out of this one. We've seen your home movies.

BTWW: you seem a fine man with many fine ideas, often beautifully expressed. We salute you, and wish you a hugely blessed new year.

12/26/2006 06:23:00 PM  
Blogger Lisa said...

WTF are you talking about sphincter?

12/26/2006 06:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Scepter or specter said...

Simple integration, oh limber one. Something you're familiar with.

Why the antagonism? It only binds you to your habits and memories. It's about now, not then.

To paraphrase Joseph, "Express yourself through your breath. Then start your stretching."

12/26/2006 07:05:00 PM  
Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

And the end of the thread, I kept wanting to say "Depakote! Depakote!"

To fat freddy's cat: I would suggest that is an oversimplified history. The American claim in Latin America throughout the Cold War was that we were only sending military aid and support because the Soviet Union was in these countries trying to unbalance the situation. The downside, readily admitted at the time, was that choosing the lesser of two evils was still an evil.

But history has vindicated us on this. When the USSR fell, and ceased to prop up leftist tyrants and guerrillas, the US left as well. Those countries now choose their governments, left, right, and center, free from interference from the US. They don't do as we tell them to, but as they see their own best interests. However much the international left, including many Americans, sneered at the US claim of only restoring choice to the people, it turned out to be true.

Did that involve our assisting many unsavory characters? Sure. What's your point?

12/26/2006 07:05:00 PM  
Anonymous hoarhey said...

I do detect the specter of a diseased and famished mind. A clear apparition.

"We've seen your home movies."

We indeed.

12/26/2006 07:37:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Specter:

Bring.It.On, Agent Smith!!

Bring your dozens of evil infected Viruses, Heresies, Lies, Pseudofacts, Pseudointellect, Pseudo-Religiosity, Faker Morals & Counterfeit Churchianity Orcses with yah!

I'm game!

You Do Nt fight nor defend the same ground I or the Lord does. Wrong ASSertion #1!

You fight for what YOU already posess or what more truly possesses you. Hence you immediately deflect into "We fight for same acreage you do." BULL! You and your ilk fight for acreage of soul, but not for the same God I serve!

You fight to keep possession of that "ground"; I fight for what God ALREADY possesses and for what already in ALL of Heaven Earth and Hell belongs to Him already -- to retake it for Our Side and His as we are commissioined to do!

I'm no wimpy Christian you face, Spectre-head!

Ooops - did you forget this elementary point right at the outset? That of ownership??

Strike 1 Bozo, want another pitch?

Apparently, cuz you blather on about ownership of "this" when you have NONE of the understanding & impact we have!

You made no mention of the things GOD backs Us with - instead you speak as if "we" own HIM or His Faith - wrong again, butthead.

Strike 2!

Jeez, this is too easy!

Is this all you've got??
Is THIS the best you can do?
Are You Ready now?

I'm pitching, make sure you hit a Homer, cuz if you miss it, it might just hit you in your "family jewels" and hurt like the devil!

If you engage with me, you will leave in pain if you be still human with a functioning conscience. Most monsters, narcissists and orcs DONT function in their consciences - so we shall see which one you "claim to have" vs which one you evidence.

We are not on the same side.
We do not fight for the same things!

Get it straight. I make no such "cornfusions" with you, do I?

Becuz I know the Enemy in all of his stinking forms - yes even the so-called Good Counterfeit forms - just as you claim! Then you will not hesitate to prove your claim yes?

You already have 2 Strikes, not doing good here I see!

She winds up, heres the fastball--

Just the Fact that YOU answered the Call/Challenge I gave means you ARE one of Them!!

Strike 3!!

Would you like another? :D

Got more change-ups for yah!

Orcs who are in denial and still "think" they are Elves - UGH!!

Suck up elsewhere - we dont need your bull here.

YOU STRUCK OUT FIRST TIME UP AT BAT!

Another inning then? :D

No problem...hope you do MUCH better than this next time!

- PsychoPrincess -

12/26/2006 07:46:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

GOD and the things of God who are His, will always tromp n stomp your petty little relative absolutism into the dirt where it belongs! YOU are the ones who have trouble going up the Vertical, not us!

Looks like you be on the wrong side, the wrong team, the wrong ground - oooooo are we supposed to be "scared" of the Spectre name you dont spell rightly? ooooooo

HOARHEY: Apparently the Casper hasnt even read The Great Divorce!! LOL!!

GhostBusters!!!

- PsychoPrincess -

Oz had little man syndrome too, Spectre! Such a pity you've just revealed yourself to be an Orc hiding in Dwarfs clothing that delusionally thinks hes an Elf!!

12/26/2006 07:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Scepter or specter said...

Hoar,

C'mon mon.

What exactly are you siding against - my moniker? "...a diseased and famished mind..."? No. Simply not true. Absolutely or otherwise.

Control yourself. I know you can. We know you can. You're swinging at specters, fer cryin' out loud. We're not trying to offend anyone in particular. Least of all, you. I mean, me. I mean, we.

Pick a point. For starters, we're all one. Any takers?

12/26/2006 07:51:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Conservatives 26, Leftists, still O.

12/26/2006 07:52:00 PM  
Blogger Lisa said...

Perhaps you could start your integration and introduction with a less insulting and arrogance...it reads with an assinine tone...since you asked. Nothing personal, though. Are you that intolerant to ideas that are not 100% agreeable to your own worldview? Have you even bothered to read Bob's book?

Remember to exhale fully and rid yourself of stale air, the body will naturally inhale and inflate on its own if given a chance.

12/26/2006 07:52:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

HOARHEY: YOU have the nose of a Bloodhound!! Excellent! You're quick on the mark - the product of much Orc-hunting!! Yes!!!!

High Five! You're Awesome!

-PsychoPrincess-

12/26/2006 07:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Scepter or specter said...

Slow down, PP. One at a time!
Take a tip from Lisa...breathe! And try exhaling without moving your tongue!

12/26/2006 07:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Scepter or specter said...

Hey, since when are insults and an arrogant tone off limits?

Ex-cuuuuse Me!

12/26/2006 07:57:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Princess is waaaaiiiittttiiiinnnggg.....

Taps foot.....sharpens Sword....hums to herself...the threshing floor song...man, lotta chaff in here today...needs to be burned out but good....gets her torch & gasoline....

Ready!

Still tapping foot waiting on Sphincter to show up....

Whats the matter cant type as fast as me? Hehehehehe! :D

-P2-

12/26/2006 07:59:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

You're begging a Girl to slow down?

Wimp.

Keep up or get off the field!

-P2-

12/26/2006 08:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Scepter or specter said...

P2:

You made no mention of the things GOD backs Us with - instead you speak as if "we" own HIM or His Faith - wrong again, butthead.

Wow. You speak for God? Man, I had no idea...

PS, PP: I'm over here. In your dugout, babe. Waiting.

12/26/2006 08:03:00 PM  
Blogger Lisa said...

Just playin. Besides, you asked and I answered. Is this one of those damned if I do and damned if I don't situations? So much for integration!;0)

But if that was an apology,then sure you are excused and pardoned. Just don't let it happen again! Bring up a serious and heartfelt question and maybe you will find what you seek or just read the archive. We've gone through this many times....getting stale...

12/26/2006 08:07:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Scepter or Spectre?

Seems to have some identity confusion in addition to his ownership confusion and affiliation confusion....

Hmmm...Who is the god of Confusion? And those who follow him evidence ... what??

Confusion - Not Truth.
truth - Not Truth of God/Spirit.

Heresy is still heresy no matter what it "thinks" of itself and how it differentiates itself from the offal surrounding it.

Pseudo-elitists are always snobs & want to be seen for more than who they are so ... um ... what to intimidate others?

I'm soooo not trembling as I look you dead in the eye of your undead spirit that posesses you!

Be careful before I do to your "undead familiar" what Eowyn did to the Witch-King and his Nazgul!

- P2 -

12/26/2006 08:08:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Sorry, see the sign??

"NO COUNTERFEIT CHRISTIAN ASSHOLES ALLOWED IN THE DUGOUT!"

This means You!

- P2 -

Spits her skoal on your shoe.

12/26/2006 08:09:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

"YOU" yield us our hardearned soil?

Whose pompous & bombasts??

Think again - you have nothing and yielf nothing were it not given you by God! "You" as owner doesnt count!

We dont get caught up in such elementary and ego-infantile mistakes!

(Thunks Spectre on top of his head with her Sword.) Grow up!

You have "your ground" for now...remember it well, for it will not always be "yours" ... and if you were truly on "our" side to begin with, you'd KNOW it DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU but to God Himself!

You begin to bore me....toooo easy.

-PsychoPrincess-

NEVER THINK YOUR STINK IS ON OUR TEAM!

12/26/2006 08:16:00 PM  
Anonymous hoarhey said...

Sphincter, (heh, good one Lisa)

I will have to give you credit for lying low for the last couple of days and letting people here enjoy the mood.
Too busy pulling Santa's beard and taking candy away from small children? :(

12/26/2006 08:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Scepter or specter said...

Lisa,

Thank you for your generosity of spirit, and your ability to stretch. I salute you.

PP, What a trip you are! All that and a bag o'chips too?

You have no idea what my ideas and beliefs are. You just don't like my tone.

So taking me as you for a moment, do you want to sit around the campfire passing these ideas about to each other, or do you want to do God's Work and expand some consciousness? Nothing inviting about this tone, and no truth in your name-calling. Why should one imbue your other words with truth or wisdom?

Truth is where you find it, Bobblehead. Princess, your reputation is big, but your ego precedes you. Those of us who have found God don't need the bag o'chips.

As for your closing remarks, you sound more like T.O. (it's a football thang, hon) than PP. What a man you must be.

PS, PP: I'm not wearing shoes. "You must not be frum around these parts much, do yuh?"

12/26/2006 08:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dicentra3 You said "Speaking of using the free market to solve the problem of poverty: try microcredit.

I saw a documentary about it in which poor people would get a loan for some insanely small amount (from our perspective)--$50, for example--and they would use that money to purchase the means to start a cottage business.

For example, a woman in the Philippines buys a sewing machine, which she uses to sew together old juice boxes into colorful handbags. The bags are popular and she uses the profits to buy more sewing machines to employ her neighbors. Pretty soon, she has a modest little business going."


KIVA is a great group if you ever wanted to do this and the money is paid back. I and some friends this year pooled what would have been our Christmas money and sent it to this organisation instead. Another group that helps people in kind of the same way is the Heifer Project. This group allows you to "purchase" livestock for families that can be used for food, breeding and hauling so that families can get a leg up if you will. Both very interesting organisations in my opinion.

12/26/2006 08:22:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Specter Double-speaker said:

"Where you see the either/or of a Finite God w/limited real estate..."

WRONG!!!!!!! BozoBoy!!!!!

Try again, get it Right what We Your Enemy Thinks - yunno just trying to help your "aim" not be so waaaay off target!

Spec goes on hissing: "We see the limitless capacity of the Ultimate Creator...."

As If we dont?? Surely You Jest!! WE have a Perspective you dont even begin to comprehend - becuz we obviously are higher up the Vertical than you. You cant even begin to speak the Spiritual language we do much less comprehend it rightly.

Then:..."You can still be right. And so can we. "

Hahahaahah! Try again! Bad aim! Wasted words.

Then Name the "we" you speak of! Why do you hide who you are behind the mask and behind another ghosts skirts?

Avoidance & counterfeit sophistry - the mark of the enemy is the same in all his followers - they all hide behind his behind...Yunno why? Why becuz you Orcs spend so much time kissing It...

Hisses on:..."To each. According to his/her understanding..."

Sounds like pagan-words to me, typical of witches and compromiser-weenies.

ACK!!! Relativist alert!!! Troll Alert!!

This kinda stoopid spew is exactly why YOU arent on OUR side, clearly!! Milk baby! :D

Jeez. Try Again.

Hisses:..."It is your ego which binds you to your ideas, your skulls. So long as you are the Owner of your ideas, your head bows lower to the ground as your perceived success accumulate..."

I see you speak of that which you are ultimately familiar with!

Pay Attention Dorkus: It is precisely the dumping of the ego & re-attaching of it in Spirit to God that binds us to GODS ideas! (NOT OURS, DUFUS!!) We dont think too highly of "our own" ideas unlike you, we arent in symbiotic relationship with evil, i.e., we're out of our poopy diapers many years now and we flush!!

We know how to "eliminate" ego from ourselves and thereby gain the Vertical IN the Refiners Fire!

Do You?? Wimps wont go into the Fire of God! Fraidy cats run away.

"Head bowing lower to the ground"...I dont have a problem with that, for it is only in losing the self that you find the Spirit & gain mastery over self, offal trolls, over principalities, thrones, and Dominions!!

At least we agree at least on one thing!

Least our egos dont kiss the a** of the Enemy yours serves, since you obviously wont depart with your overblown ego and you have multiple personality disorder going on.

Keep your filthy orcses "relative Absolutism!" Better yet, shove it where the SON doesnt shine!

The Sh** of the Enemy always stays and returns to the Enemy...so enjoy the ride back from whence You came rolling in.

Puuuuhhlease...

(Princess hums and chops the grass, bored, as she dispatches this foul smelling Messenger of satan, back to Spectre-land.)

"Tell them to send another - one more worthy!!"

- PsychoPrincess -

12/26/2006 08:38:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

You're not welcome around my campfire since you uttered the words

Relative Absolutism.

Begone, Foul Specter!!

You might fool others but you dont fool me.

Hippies never wear shoes! And hippies always change the rules - they seem to forget GODS Rules of Engagement!

So get thee gone.

I dont eat chips, you dork.

- P2 -

12/26/2006 08:40:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Conservatives 27,

Lefties STILL O.

Sphincter didnt help his side much any at all.

- P2 -

12/26/2006 08:48:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Dont be taken in by the enemies words, Lisa. Know your enemy, be able to correctly identify him no matter the words he speaks or the clothing he wears that seeks to counterfeit "our" own. Our own speak of God; his "own" speaks of "us and belonging to us." Big Clue as to where hes instantly coming from and Who he really serves.

Eve had to learn not to dialogue with the snake but to cast it out, put it on the defensive so it has no time to spew and ensnare younger ones among us without the tuned up hearing and instincts that react as quickly to smell the Wolf in the Fold of Sheep.

Jeez, I'm just a Shepherd Girl, and Casper couldnt even take the heat from lil ole moi! Attacked in predictable waysthe Left always does. Tsk Tsk you'd think for one so "smart" hed "know" not to do that - but yunno, thats an "advanced blowhard" for you.

All Talkie, but No Walkie.

- PsychoPrincess -

He never even answered the actual call of my Challenge did you see that!? Wimp!!

12/26/2006 08:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Scepter or specter said...

Boy,

Seems like you're staking out some pretty narrow turf, Psychogal. Keep it up and you'll trip yourself up with your own property lines.

You're off on a rich vein with all this name-calling, but it's a vein made valuable by you alone. That ore spends in your own private economy, not mine. There's some relativism for you.

When you start to feel desperate enough to quit thinking and start labeling, back off and breathe. Stop typing. Proofread once in a while. Use the "preview" feature. See how all that hatred sits in your core. That ain't God talkin to you, sweets. If I may say so myself.

I'm all done for this year. If I may condense The Gospel According to Hoarhey, the lessons are here. You have to first be open to learning.

Thanks to all for the learning, and no thanks to all the crazy animosity some spout some of the time, and some spout all of the time.

Blessings from the field, yourselves. Here's wishes for a great new year!

12/26/2006 09:02:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Looks Like Specter was Integralists "shade" - or else the shade of some other deluded BurgerMeister, lost in his own ego-as-king-dumb blarney.

Their Poop never changes smell after awhile - kinda like cow patties smell the same no matter what state you encounter them in while traveling! LOL!

Casper sure beat it outta Dodge fast for one without Nikes! :D

Testing the waters no doubt.

Didnt even discuss anything nor answer any of my questions...how typical of Them posing as Us.

Glad I'm not on his side - the one the Balrog eats for dinner!

Gonna have to do a much better counterfeit fake-Right job than that peeve-poor effort, CASPER, ifn yah wanna fool the old-timers among us.

- PsychoPrincess -

Back to studying The S/Word. :D

12/26/2006 09:14:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

As Narrow as the Eye of the Needle, Casper.

And I KEEP telling yah - Geez whatta thick skull -- it is never "our" territory - its GODS!!! Can you just keep that one nugget o truth straight? No? I thought not - becuz you're kind doesnt believe in Absolute Truth & therefore might as well toss the Bible out the window (not to mention your messed up Theological views.)

We Are Just the Temporary Stewards of territory but it belongs to the King

Your words fool of wisdumb reveal you clearly are not one of us, even though your ego likes to think it is.

Thanks for letting me whoop ass & mop the floor with you for all to read of you humiliation here! Maybe other Wolves in Sheeps Clothing will get the message and leave us alone.

Then again, if not, no worries: We're here, waiting for You counterfeiters...

- PsychoPrincess -

12/26/2006 09:24:00 PM  
Blogger Lisa said...

I'm not sure he is really an enemy. I think he may be confused about his identity as much as we are. Maybe that is why he is attracted to a site like this. I don't even know if I should be using the term he it could be a she. I have hope that people are capable of learning and growth. Some don't take to the extreme and literal biblical beliefs and get defensive when confronted with fervent beliefs in God or Christ. Not that you don't have the right to believe that and I will defend it as any other, as long as it does not actively seek to hurt others or force them into submission. I will not tolerate intolerance. This site attracts people of many faiths, not just Christians.

Take some and leave some from One Cosmos. I don't think Bob intends this to be the end all be all. I just happen to find that he is right at least 90% of the time. When I read Bob's post/book, I always marvel at how he does incorporate and integrate the best, true, and beautiful in an easy to grasp way. Some people just take longer to uneducate themselves from "higher education" in humanities (not sciences for the most part) and refuse to accurately look at reality.

I know you have room in your heart for some patience and compassion to those less fortunate, PP! ;0)
That's not to say stop practicing your shot!!! ha ha....

12/26/2006 09:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Social Scientist said...

Vis a vis "progress resistant cultures" and "progress-friendly ones: I see a correlation with latitude. The closer to the equator, the more progress-resistant cultures tend to be.

Check a map--Equatorial Africa, The Amazon, Latin America, New Guinea, Libya, Ghana, Darfur, Thailand.
The hot places are where people seem to be lazy, violent, and backward.

Farther north or south, the crisper climate seems to perk up cultures and make them more efficient and progress-friendly (Japan, New Zealand, UK, USA, Canada, Argentian, South Africa, etc.)

The Middle East rides kind of low to the equator, which may be one reason why they are so fundamentally recalcitrant.

Latitude also correlates with skin pigment, with the browner races clustering near the equator; therefore, your dark stocks will carry their equatorial lassitude into any latitude they happen to migrate into, although it should start to dissipate and they should get paler over the course of a number of generations.

Pale races who migrate south tend to retain much of their efficiency as well.

These things are say are leftist heresies but anyone with common sense will realize there is something to it.

12/26/2006 09:46:00 PM  
Anonymous will said...

Lisa, I'm a bit disappointed you haven't suspected that specter is me.

Hell, *I'm* starting to suspect he's me.

12/26/2006 09:51:00 PM  
Blogger Lisa said...

You know, I think everyone is you, Will! I've been waiting for your pearl of wisdom today! Hee Hee!

12/26/2006 10:01:00 PM  
Anonymous integralist said...

I like this specter/scepter person...sure seems to call a spade a spade re: the town's raving Inquisitor, aka PsychoticPrincess.

PP, my guess is that you were the first one to throw a rock at Magdalene.

12/26/2006 10:33:00 PM  
Anonymous hoarhey said...

I guess the Christmas vacation/troll-reprieve is over. :(

12/26/2006 10:46:00 PM  
Anonymous integralist said...

Hoarhey, who is the troll, myself or PsychoticGirl? Who spouts the most invective? I'm pretty tamed compared to her heinous.

Besides, I thought a troll was someone who was belligerent for the sake of belligerence. Do you really see that as what I am doing? (or specter for that matter?) Or do you just automatically interpret any dissenting views as "trollism"?

12/26/2006 11:01:00 PM  
Anonymous hoarhey said...

A bit paranoid are we?

12/26/2006 11:04:00 PM  
Anonymous integralist said...

Uh, look at what you write right after my post. Paranoid? Maybe a wee bit, but us lefties are pretty paranoid folks ;)

12/26/2006 11:13:00 PM  
Anonymous hoarhey said...

There is a thing called dissonance. It is possible to come here and ask a question or state an opposing belief without being disrespectful. In my mind, the troll is someone who is incapable of doing this. There are also those who are completely unaware of their creation of dissonance. They too go into the troll category.
As an exercise in troll detection, go to the Christmas Eve responses and see if you can tell me where the dischord begins. It will be a change in energy/attitude.
Read slowly and purposefully.

12/26/2006 11:31:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Inty, go read posts I left you on Vans site - yunno, directions and guidance you again claim to want, only to reject again?

Stop playing with US if YOU really want to learn and have what we are learning and have.

While you were here ranting about me, I was on Vans site typing spiritual guidance to you - again moved by compassion for you - yunno the compassion you claim I dont have?

I see, you're so overflowing with compassion yourself...

Just wish you'd grow up and get out of your OWN way instead of projecting your problems onto us who try to help you.

Do it your way or Gods way. We've already made our choice. If you dont want to hear what we say or follow it, find it out on your own then, and leave us in peace.

You again mistake assertiveness and a no-bullshit attitude for "meanness" the usual Leftie predictable attack.

We've ALL suffered it at one time or another -- yours will not be the first accusation nor the last.

"Get thy own business straight with God" (from a song) and I pray with all info that is provided for you here that you will make the wisest choice possible. But blame us not for your condition - for it is not our job to "fix" you - only to share of what we know to be Truth/God.

Do what you will with it.

- PsychoPrincess -

12/26/2006 11:35:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

HOARHEY: Troll who plays games (Specter) CLEARLY SAID in his post: "I call myself a Relative Absolutism" something to that effect.

Now, it doesnt take rocket science from spending any time on this site to cry "Foul!" when you see the ball fly out of line like that!

You called it correctly, and so did I, and Specter insisted to lead others astray, being "gracious" to them and mean to others.

I've seen this behavior in my clients, narcissistic teens, etc. who have no intent to learn anything, whose desire is to stir up trouble and divide the Sheep in the fold.

I have no beef with Specter, but just the way he bloviated & he arrogance he posted was a dead fiveaway. He mixes in a few asides of "Oh, I'm downloading Bobs material" just enuf to make people think he is serious - when he more than likely is not. So he downloads Bobs material - good way to start the New Year/New You thing. :D More power to him.

But I do not think its right to let someone lead others astray without being confronted on it and called on it. Its not about my "beliefs." Its about responsibility, since alot of newbies and other read here to learn truth from fiction.

My posts should be able to help them do just that - the humor behind it is evident, and still the Conservatives won!! Not bad all in an evenings work for a Princess!

- PsychoPrincess -

12/26/2006 11:42:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

For an official definition and info on TROLL and what it means: do a search on the Blogspot and some posts will come up, then read and familiarize with the history of where the word Troll came from and what it means.

Then it will be clear to all whom the Troll is - even to the Troll himself!

- P2 -

12/26/2006 11:49:00 PM  
Blogger robinstarfish said...

cos' you're paranoid
doesn't mean you've not been watched
raccoons have your six

12/26/2006 11:50:00 PM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

For Those Interested:

For Info On TROLLS:

Here is the Word/Definition straight from the "Assistant Village Idiot":

http://www.assistantvillageidiot.blogspot.com/2006/12/them-trolls.html

Copy and paste in your browser search window, it should come up.

- P2 -

12/26/2006 11:59:00 PM  
Anonymous just a follower said...

High tens to Princess Queen! You rule! No one stops you...I for one thing YOU should be guest writing this blog when the Gagdad doesn't have time....

You are Gagdad and Cousin Dupree all rolled into one, no matter what anyone says different. Keep your s/word sharp thru constat use, PsychoPrincess. Write on! Follow your muse as it leads you home to the Lord.

12/27/2006 12:03:00 AM  
Anonymous just a follower said...

I for one "thing" should have said "think". Whoops! :) LOL.

12/27/2006 12:06:00 AM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Inty Said:..."I like this spectre/sceptre person...sure seems to call a spade a spade..."

and: "PP, my GUESS is that you were the first one to throw a rock at Magdalene."

Oh thats not Trolling? Thats not trying to stir things up?

Sheesh here we go again - Inty gets even the simple stuff mixed up:

You guessed Wrong - Again!

No one threw a rock at "Magdalene". Specter came in spewing and attacking us and mixing lies and truth the way typical Lefties do - yunno, the ones in the post BOB is against?

He said he is one of Us - just like YOU DO, Inty! Wow, quite the "coinkydink" dontcha think?

So I refuted it pronto - no harm in doing that since this is a site where we get alot of Troll and pretender traffic. Hoarhey had also called SPecter on his issues before I even said anything.

While any blog welcomes readers & posters, they obviously are not here to take abuse ad-nauseam from ones who cant handle their emotional issues and continue to reject, rebel, refuse, tantrum, troll, stir up trouble, seek to lead others astray with ways that are not ours and things we dont believe, dishonest in their intentioins, discrepancies in their talk and walk, etc.

Thats why Cousin Dupree and Hoarhey and Petey are here - the Shepherds of Bobs Blog.

Could it be that Specter is really YOU Inty as you're angry that Van wont play with you - so you had to come back here & stir the pot for more attention?

You've had a problem with this ego-issue/attention issue since you came here. Anyone can track it thru your posts.

Read the definition of Troll - it seems you do fit it.

So if one speaks Truth you dont like you attack them - instead of looking at self and removing the log in your eye before accusing others? This IS the major problem we have with you repeatedly. You dont settle yourself down here & learn anything no matter how many address you.

It seems your goal is NOT to learn but to stir people here up and to divide them - even to confuse them and get them off the path they are here to learn - you take advantage of them on purpose, and that is TROLL behavior.

Your are responsible for your actions here, so dont complain when you are held accountable for them.

- P2 -

In the meantime people here are praying for you to stop the foolishness and advance your self, as we all are here to learn to do. We do not have to agree with any Leftist idea, cloaked or not.

12/27/2006 12:18:00 AM  
Anonymous just a follower said...

U go grl!

12/27/2006 12:33:00 AM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

Just A Follower: Thanks for the Support! :D

I usually sign my nics with:

"Princess, Soon to be Queen!"

But I figured visiting Lefties and HyperTrolls/PsychoTyrants would get too "bent" and squawk like orangutans and miss the inherent joke; so I usually leave it off, LOL! :D

JAF: Godspeed on Your Journey, in the Silence, and in the Music, Always - Him.

Never Surrender to the Left, nor any of their shades/lies/counterfeits!

What DID Bobs Blogs say all this past week about Lefties and NOT integrating with them?

"Are we learning yet?" -John Connor, T2

Good Eye, JAF! Thanks for your vote on the Guest Blogspot too. :D

Least we know I dont just bloviate - I actually DO integrate the male+female sides of my self & God, eh? (What did people expect?)

The Spirits Guidance & Aim never misses its mark -> to confront sin, to repel Trolls, and to love & teach & bless those with humility - He can see In the Light, and even in the Dark, so its best to see with His Eyes instead of our own "sight."

JAF: FOR YOU:

"Stay Grafted in The Vine,
Rooted in Him, reject sin.
Then You will always move
Further Up, and Further In!"

- PsychoPrincess -
"Princess, soon to be Queen"

12/27/2006 12:38:00 AM  
Anonymous PsychoPrincess said...

JAF, one more thing:

See what happens when you plug in and charge your spirit from the Right Source?

Like Energizer bunnies, we just keep on going when HE is our battery power and energy source and we learn how to "recharge" in Him (re-integrate).

GBU & Keep the Faith, JAF!!

- P2 -

Time to go now. Night All! :D

12/27/2006 12:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Conservatives: 30

Leftists: Still ZIP-Zero.

:D

12/27/2006 12:45:00 AM  
Anonymous newbie lurker said...

Scepter or Specter, hmmm, you say its both? And the correlation is?

My guesses:

-Head Cavewight?

-Ghost of Christmas past (since you intimate that youre dead)?

-Ruling banshee?

-I saw in a prev post of P2s, she mentioned about what Eowyn from Lord of the rings did to the Witch King of Angmar? So youre saying youre a Nazgul?

The last one is my best guess. Or that you wish to be like him and are jealous you arent nearly as evil.

My vote is no matter what one you say your name means youre still invisible, just hotair from what I read here tonight.

Power to P2 - the Princess Rules!
Trolls drool.

12/27/2006 01:22:00 AM  
Anonymous GLASR said...

Should a call be put in to the referee?

DFI, NGO's, Development in a Box(concept in advanced stages, the WalMart of development for Third World, deployment target/date unknown). The "Box" has embracement issues, ownership of the Administrative System and who drops in to kick down doors, kill the bad guys, get the ball rolling? Wasn't that the reason George Mason didn't sign the Constitution? No "even at the point of a gun" clause. Trying to get us back on the road. Interesting organization, The Acton Institute, ran some great advertisements. Pictures of folks who were obviously living in the Third World, looks of consternation on their faces, saying: "Stop sending us clothes, food and giving us money, you're killing us! DFI, personal World Bank loans, we'll make, grow and earn our own!", to that effect. One very clever one showed a McDonald's sandwich - the text, loosely was, hey don't worry about a little homogenization - we can handle it.

12/27/2006 02:15:00 AM  
Blogger PrincessSpirit said...

LISA: You do realize, Sis, dont you, that "Specter" WAS INTEGRALIST!

*I have the Proof. And a Keen Spirit-connection.*

Girlfriend (you CRACKED ME UP TOTALLY WHEN YOU CALLED HIM SPHINCTER!!) My My I see a Princess-in-Waiting in you! :D

Feisty, yeah, we can work with that. And yes, you are partly correct: Compassion given an appropriately is also correct - but its also right to not be a "bleeding heart" for every Wolf that comes to your house whos out to destroy and wreak havoc and infiltrate the fold, yes? As Bible shows many times re: David, Proverbs, Psalms, etc.

It takes Spiritual Discernment to know when to use Compassion and when to use Confrontation. That is why we achieve more of the Vertical in Him! To improve our Spiritual connectivity & discernment.

If you actually dunno the differences between an Enemy, a Counterfeit and a Friend on the Field, from 200 yds away, you're welcome to come Troll & Orc-hunting with me and some of the Brothers.

I'll gladly show you how to "smell" In the Spirit (to accurately Spiritually Discern) the differences between each one from 300 yrds away, in the Dark, in Silence, on the Blog, Centered in The Spirit - so that you learn to "move as One With and In Him" when needed, as most here learn to do more & more along the Way.

Remember David and Goliath? ;)

How do you think Davids aim was so true that it was driven 2-inches into Goliaths skullbone? Becuz the Spirit was In David and together They slung the stone. The Spirit never misses.

Relativist => Post modernists => Liberal Progressive Protestants/Christians (HumanISM and postmodernISM Christians) are Our Enemy => Leftists G-Bobs writes against. Hope that help complete the pic for you. I have more detailed info on which groups/denoms if you need to break it down further/study it.

I'm fine with the fact G-BOB does not want to integrate w/them. Neither do I. If they want to change, we may or may not be willing to facilitate them in their process - but its THEIR Responsibility To Do It - not ours.

So no argument is actually needed from them to us, or us to them. They have Choice & free will, and if and when they are actually ready, we can help them.

But if they choose to come & mess around, just like disruptive loud attention-seeking Juvenile Delinquents disrupting a class or a home, we show them out the Door. We dont have to integrate that type, and never will.

Gatecrashers!! That is why Bible advises us: "Be ye on Guard through the Watches of the Night...as a Watchman on the ramparts, Be Alert...read the Signs of the animals, sky...read the movement of the enemy even in the dark."

The Peeps G-BOB has been writing about that we "never have to feel pressured to integrate?" The Leftists? Specter/Inty is one of them. Not being mean, just reading the signs & words & seeing how he reveals himself to be waaaaaay outta Spirit & not having enuf in common w/us. Plus he has retaliation & vindictive issues going on, hence he assumed another nic tonight.

Just encouraging you to see/know the Enemy you "fight" so you may fight well. No all peeps are Enemies.

Some are always Enemies. This knowledge gives you ability to not be fooled and to be Certain-in-short-order.

If you like, I'll help in your training whenever you're ready, if you like, as you wish or not. :D

You have to promise to make me laff tho! Let your FeistyPrincess shine!

SPHINCTER!! ROFL!! LMTO!!
OMG that was PRICELESS!!
Thanks for THAT! :D

- PsychoPrincess -

12/27/2006 03:13:00 AM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

p^2: Read this, but be warned, for it is a man's poem! (And stupendously long!)

Also: I would say both-- but the 'oil' in the gears is technology-- the same technology that lets us live well. This has changed the 'wave' function of normal narcissism coming and going and given it new legs. As to how far those legs will take it, I know not, only God.

But suffice it to say, like Chesterton, that there are times that are as though the world lived and died before we took breath.

Back in the day-- nothing was easy for certain, but difficulty made men to be men. Sure, bad health, troubled times, sleazy government-- but living easy has made men lose their minds.

Even women have too, fancying themselves both men and women, and men, being lost, fancy themselves nothing at all!

And so like the poem above, we must ask, where are the men? For if a mere fowler lays to earth a great king, then it is truly as they say: "The last shall be made first." and,
"I shall make your enemies your footstool."

For the greatest princes of this world are but charlatans, believing in nothing they are already dead. For the substance of life is the soul-- without it man is but a golem. The man who believes not in himself for he has found himself to be empty, and believes not in God can believe in himself never again. His path is ragnarok, for he feels the call of the unending beneath, like the sweet song of eternal rest.

Each man must lay his hand on the stone and build, and lay his hand on the rifle and fight. Because this is what man himself was made for. Whether that stone be wealth, or houses, or brilliant Truth, man must always build up and tear down, gather and separate. For there is a time and season for each.

Because both things are at play, we are in peril, but we have always been in peril. I worry not, for it is said: "The battle belongs to God", and "The race is not to the swift, or the strong." and "Those who trust in the Lord shall not tire or be weary, but shall renew their strength, they shall rise up on wing like eagles.", and "One shall rout a thousand, and two -- ten thousand".

----

Scepter (is that like, 'trick or treat'?) - you misunderstand my mathemystics. It is not to say that the world is digital-- or something-- for to claim that the world is either digital or analog is to claim one understands its very base nature- which not even Brian Greene does.

Instead, my point is simple: You 'derive' to find details-- like the velocity at a point-- but like Aristotle, you can never get to the uppermost equation by deriving.

You must do the counter-intuitive process of integrating, which always involves an unknown constant, c -- which requires one to test one's equation against the hardness of the real -- something one must believe in order to integrate.

No offense intended but your math jibe appears to be a jibe and no more--

And indeed, we MUST own our ideas before we can let go of them-- otherwise it is not our choice. Without ownership the flesh will not cooperate, but perhaps that is not something a phantom king would understand.

Seeing as you fancy yourself a ghostly ruler-- for the literary 'or' is not exclusive-- riddle me this: Who is the King of your kingdom, and whose vassal are you?

Left and Right are but constructs -- subject to being taken apart like a watch. But if you take apart a living thing, you cannot put it back together again. And so, deconstructionism is merely the watchmaker-man gone mad.

Also, you claim we are narcissists (wearing our ideas about as pearls) perhaps not only are you a shadowy lord, but a coward? For no man has lost his soul in a strong defense.

12/27/2006 04:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Joseph said...

PP,
"Brevity is the soul of wit." See the example of Cousin Dupree for further guidance.

12/27/2006 07:40:00 AM  
Blogger Lisa said...

Hey P2- I hear you loud and clear. Generally, I am the one without the patience to argue but every now and then like to play. Sort of like a cat with a bug. Plus, I really believe that some of these persistent trolls really do want to change and learn or they wouldn't want to hang around. Go back a good 6 mos. or more and you can see me poking sticks in trolls eyes here and there. It's just not that much fun anymore and I have chosen to focus on more positive things. If people can't see the integration of the best of religion and science Bob has presented already, it really is their problem and they are not ready yet or ever. We are all not created equal. Some will never be able to grasp some of these ideas and some just think they do. Hell, that may even be me! But I do promise to make you laugh and call people silly names when appropriate. Humor is a must for me...Have a good day!

12/27/2006 07:51:00 AM  
Anonymous integralist said...

As an exercise in troll detection, go to the Christmas Eve responses and see if you can tell me where the dischord begins. It will be a change in energy/attitude.
Read slowly and purposefully.


OK, here it is.

Integralist: You know the funny, ironic, and perhaps sad thing is that I am fully with you on this post, Bob. Beautifully said.

Ximeze: Integralist:

You know the not funny, not ironic, and certainly not sad thing is that those of us who believe in Prayer, are doing just so for you. Never forget that.

Merry Christmas

....................................

The dischord begins with Ximeze, not with me. READ WHAT I WROTE: I told Bob it was beautifully said, that despite our disagreements I agreed with him. Then Ximeze comes with...well, read slowly and purposefully.

12/27/2006 10:17:00 AM  
Blogger PrincessSpirit said...

Joseph, Thanks for the reminder, point well taken. Its what happens to me at 2AM while listening to Nickelback and putting up with a nuisance Troll bothering me.

Just for the Record: I'm no longer going to interact on any level with "Integralist" and "Specter" as they are one & same person even though Inty denies it. Just too immature for me to engage with anymore. Trolls, who can fathom them? I'll watch & learn from you guys how you handle him from now on.

- PsychoPrincess -

PS: GAGDAD - going to order your book this weekend and also Schuon, and perhaps one more from VANS booklist. WILL, you recommend anything I should be getting? RIVER-C...any input?

ROFL & LOL @ Al Sharpton being "King of Negroes!!" Jeez, G-BOB!! :D

12/27/2006 12:09:00 PM  
Anonymous hoarhey said...

You missed it,
Some people came bearing beautiful gifts, others bearing opinions.

Troll category #2.

12/27/2006 12:16:00 PM  
Anonymous integralist said...

Hoarhey, come on. RE-READ WHAT I WROTE TO BOB AND TELL ME HOW THAT BROUGHT DISCORD.

Is it not a gift to say "Even though we agree on a lot, I think this post was beautifully said."

Or are you so partisan that you can only agree with your friends?

12/27/2006 12:28:00 PM  
Blogger PrincessSpirit said...

Now Lisa, I KNOW you have that poker-stick hidden somewhere up your sleeve, LOL! Fess up! Ok I put mine away. Thanks Sis! You have a great day too! :D

I'm still Laffin at your "Choice Word of the Day!"

- P2 - :D

12/27/2006 01:00:00 PM  
Blogger PrincessSpirit said...

RIVER-C said:..."Seeing as you fancy yourself a ghostly ruler...riddle me this: Who is the King of your kingdom, and whose vassal are you?"

I think all hands go up in knowing the answer to whom the question is posed!

An instant Classic Pin move, River-C!! Love it!

- P2 -

12/27/2006 01:05:00 PM  
Blogger River Cocytus said...

The importance of context, mr./ms. Int.

The dis-chord was the space between Ximeze's loading the spring and you deciding to release it.

The words between the posts are often the most important ones.

12/27/2006 01:18:00 PM  
Blogger PrincessSpirit said...

RIVER-C: Thank you for the magnificent poem by Chesterton! I know many people like to read him, but I've not read this particular one before, ever.

Hmmm...so if Chesterton was a female, that Poem would be at least DOUBLE the length LONGER??! Eeee-Gads! No wonder all his books are Fat-spined & entitled "Collections/Collected Works"!

Beautiful though, I'm loving reading it today as I relax at home - no workie this week as I'm off for Holiday time.

:D I was looking for the answer you gave of "both" - you have a keen mind. There's not much you miss! You said:..."living easy has made men lose their minds" - Yes, agree. My Grammy always said: "An idle mind is the devils playground." More than a few grains of truth found in old euphemisms.

Lost their minds, but also worth mentioning is that many have totally lost or never gained the Spirit relationship - hence many girls go unmarried & get frustrated with the single-digit chances of meeting an intelligent, emotionally-wise, non-psycho God-loving Husband with which to build a life or family.

Course, we are always hushed up if Lefties are around; guaranteed we get accused of male-bashing when we speak of the "male problem" as we call it - I know many women who are so thoroughly disgusted w/meeting "unmanly Peter-pansy" men over and over, they just never expected their futures to hold "this."

So to wrap it up, my main thought is this: Satans strategy seems to be to disable or cripple the men in Society so they dont become Spiritually aware and instead stay narcissists / juvenihilists / delinquents who never grow up; which in turn frustrates women; which in turn means no Godly Fathers for kids; which in turn means no Godly Husbands for females; then FeminazISM comes into play; Lesbianism; Gay males with alotta free time on hands; etc.

Wish CS were alive to write a new Screwtape Letters or some such missive, from satan-as-dictator to society: "Heres how to destroy a nation in under 300 yrs. Pay attention, Wormtongue!"

Passivity and laissez-faire mentality have replaced hard physical work, hence me-me-me fills the normal gap. Yes, I see what you mean about technology making the difference & it affords people much more free time on their hands. Crime level must rise accordingly as well..

I've seen that when the Church fails to uphold the Exousia (Gods Authority in each Believer and in the Body) it is supposed to operate with & imbue the sense of in every member, then the family fails, also the society/church.

Thanks so much for turning me onto GK Chesterton - I had tried to read him before but guess I just didnt get into him at the time. Usually when we see something through anothers eyes its more appealing. Plus, Chesterton reminds me of the loooong talks at the pub JRR, CS and the rest of the clan would have, reading & discussing & writing, centered on epics; indeed, all of them became famous for their epic writings/works.

Hope you are having a Fantastic Day! :D

Will check in later.

- P^2 -

12/27/2006 01:47:00 PM  
Blogger ximeze said...

Integralist:

Want to clarify something re C eve comments: your first one was lovely & made with commendable grace, much more so than I would have expected. My error.

It also made ME feel unbearably sad for you, that you felt it funny & ironic to agree with Bob.

I confess I pictured you: alone, in that ivory tower, doing battle for what you think is right.

Likely a projection, but you so remind me of myself: very sure, too clever by half, well structured construct for protection, stubborn to the point of pig-headedness.

I wanted you to know that you were not alone & that even tho we seemingly don't agree on many things, that some of us (who believe in prayer) were rooting for you.

I do not do that lightly. If God is after your butt, you won't go gently, given what I see of your character.

My own struggle to repel the hound was very painful: I didn't give up until sense was beaten in to me. It was a long and on my side, a very bloody battle.

Your response showed me I did not communicate properly what I was feeling. Why would you think this was about your sins?

I was trying to reach out to you, to tell you: you're not alone in this quest. If you're sincere, those of us who have gone thru the grinding-down process are here to support you.

It was, in no way, an attempt to put you down, or to attack your lovely sentiment, in any way.
I so felt for you then & am truly sorry that my comments were not taken in the way they were meant.

12/27/2006 02:59:00 PM  
Anonymous anonymous regular said...

ximeze:
Your latest was one of the best comments I've ever seen on this blog. Keep it up. Please! We need more of this and less of the PP antagonism.

12/27/2006 06:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Integralist said...

Ximeze, I appreciate your obviously heartfelt post. Perhaps a bit of miscommunication on both our parts? You see, I wasn't trying to convey some sort of ivory tower aloneness or even real sadness about agreeing with Bob--just pointing out the irony that we can disagree strongly about some things, but agree strongly about others.

And yes, I am doing battle for what I think is right, for what I see as Truth--no matter who agrees or disagrees. So sure? Not at all--that is one way in which I differ from most folks here: I am NOT sure of my views for I believe that I am not a "finished project," and may never be. I will continue to evolve my views, search for "gaps" and inquire into them. In some sense I simply can't help it.

The "sins" comment was in response to what I felt was condescension on your part: that you praying for me implied a "higher" vantage point, as if I was so lost that you--as you say in this post--feel sorry for me.

First, I can tell you it isn't that bad! My life is wonderful in so many ways. Far from perfect, but I am evolving.

Is God after my butt? And what exactly do you mean by the "grinding-down process"? Given what I say above, understand I am honestly interested in your views, because I am always looking for further illumination. That is the main reason I am here or anywhere--NOT to try to convert or convince, but to learn. What I do is test my ideas, see if they hold up--and see where any gaps might be. I am not testing them by trying to convince anyone, but seeing if anyone can convince me. And I want them to, because I am a truth-junky.

Can you dig it? ;)

12/27/2006 10:09:00 PM  
Anonymous integralist said...

Ximeze, I appreciate your obviously heartfelt post. Perhaps a bit of miscommunication on both our parts? You see, I wasn't trying to convey some sort of ivory tower aloneness or even real sadness about agreeing with Bob--just pointing out the irony that we can disagree strongly about some things, but agree strongly about others.

And yes, I am doing battle for what I think is right, for what I see as Truth--no matter who agrees or disagrees. So sure? Not at all--that is one way in which I differ from most folks here: I am NOT sure of my views for I believe that I am not a "finished project," and may never be. I will continue to evolve my views, search for "gaps" and inquire into them. In some sense I simply can't help it.

The "sins" comment was in response to what I felt was condescension on your part: that you praying for me implied a "higher" vantage point, as if I was so lost that you--as you say in this post--feel sorry for me.

First, I can tell you it isn't that bad! My life is wonderful in so many ways. Far from perfect, but I am evolving.

Is God after my butt? And what exactly do you mean by the "grinding-down process"? Given what I say above, understand I am honestly interested in your views, because I am always looking for further illumination. That is the main reason I am here or anywhere--NOT to try to convert or convince, but to learn. What I do is test my ideas, see if they hold up--and see where any gaps might be. I am not testing them by trying to convince anyone, but seeing if anyone can convince me. And I want them to, because I am a truth-junky.

Can you dig it? ;)

12/27/2006 10:10:00 PM  
Blogger ximeze said...

Integralist:

I can dig it dig it. ;)

Need to sit on your response(s)[sorry, the double posting strikes me as funny] Hee Hee

Don't want to blab right off the cuff, so be seeing you back here, when I formulate some coherence.

12/28/2006 11:28:00 AM  

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